Sony PlayStation 5 OT - Play Has No Limits, update: financial report indicates no major first-party/exclusive PS5 releases prior to end of March 2025, PS5 in "latter half" of console cycle

[Reputator]

10 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

Let's think of some games that came out this year that would fit...

 

Animal Crossing New Horizons

Persona 5 Royal

Yakuza 0

Final Fantasy VII Remake

Nioh 2

MLB The Show 20

DBZ Kakarot

 

Yes. Mostly just 2D indie games. It's not like last year we got some great games like Sekiro, Control, Mortal Kombat 11, Devil May Cry 5, Fire Emblem 3 Houses, Kingdom Hearts 3, or any sports or racing or fighting game.

 

Ah dang, you're right. That represents a majority of games we play. Why even put a second stick on the same controller then? They should keep the second stick in a locked case on the top shelf of your linen closet behind the 20 pound box of old photos you promised grandma you'd digitize for her.

[Chris-]

1 minute ago, Reputator said:

 

Ah dang, you're right. That represents a majority of games we play. Why even put a second stick on the same controller then? They should keep the second stick in a locked case on the top shelf of your linen closet behind the 20 pound box of old photos you promised grandma you'd digitize for her.

lol what are you even arguing at this point?

[Reputator]

1 minute ago, Chris- said:

lol what are you even arguing at this point?

 

The vast majority of games are dual stick. I'm sorry this wasn't obvious for you.

[Brian]

Symmetrical sticks

 

[Chris-]

10 minutes ago, Reputator said:

 

The vast majority of games are dual stick. I'm sorry this wasn't obvious for you.

Right, and what does that have to do with putting the right stick in the primary position? Just because a game uses two sticks doesn’t mean the right stick has a primary function. 

[Reputator]

2 minutes ago, Chris- said:

Right, and what does that have to do with putting the right stick in the primary position? Just because a game uses two sticks doesn’t mean the right stick has a primary function. 

 

No, actions are usually controlled by bumpers and triggers. You may occasionally press the face buttons to open doors/pick up/etc, or switch grenade types, and what-have-you. Even racing games barely use the face buttons, despite not being dual-stick games.

 

Nintendo got it right with the Wii U Pro controller.

 

 

Just a shame it was wasted on the Wii U.

[Chris-]

Hell of a hill to take a stand on. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

44 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Shooters and Racing / Driving games!

And any game that has you control the camera with the right stick. 

[Reputator]

13 minutes ago, Chris- said:

Hell of a hill to take a stand on. 

 

Is it really? As someone said earlier in this thread, if Sony changed its layout to match Microsoft, there would be fanboy rioting, boycotting, and the usual internet gamer outrage.

 

I could be in the minority on this one, but that's why it's an opinion, not a fact. I don't think asymmetrical sticks make sense in a world of primarily 3D games with dual-stick controls. A person that plays mostly Animal Crossing or fighting games as Ghost mentioned will have a polar opposite perspective. But then those people probably shouldn't be arguing that all controllers need to suit their specific preferences.

[Ghost_MH]

16 minutes ago, Reputator said:

 

Is it really? As someone said earlier in this thread, if Sony changed its layout to match Microsoft, there would be fanboy rioting, boycotting, and the usual internet gamer outrage.

 

I could be in the minority on this one, but that's why it's an opinion, not a fact. I don't think asymmetrical sticks make sense in a world of primarily 3D games with dual-stick controls. A person that plays mostly Animal Crossing or fighting games as Ghost mentioned will have a polar opposite perspective. But then those people probably shouldn't be arguing that all controllers need to suit their specific preferences.

 

Eh...Here are the best selling games for the most recent month available...

 

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare

NBA 2K20

Grand Theft Auto 5

Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot

Tom Clancy's The Division 2

Mario Kart 8*

Ring Fit Adventure

Madden NFL 20

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate*

Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order

Minecraft#

Luigi's Mansion 3*

Red Dead Redemption 2

The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild*

Pokemon Sword*

Just Dance 2020

FIFA 20

Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege

Need for Speed: Heat

New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe

 

The highlighted games are games that map primary actions to the face buttons and use the analog stick for basic camera controls. Just Dance and Ring Fit probably shouldn't count here, but that's still the majority of the best selling games this year. Don't take away my right analog stick. Nobody is arguing that. Just, there's a reason why Microsoft's controller became the standard here.

[AbsolutSurgen]

39 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

Eh...Here are the best selling games for the most recent month available...

 

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare

NBA 2K20

Grand Theft Auto 5

Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot

Tom Clancy's The Division 2

Mario Kart 8*

Ring Fit Adventure

Madden NFL 20

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate*

Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order

Minecraft#

Luigi's Mansion 3*

Red Dead Redemption 2

The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild*

Pokemon Sword*

Just Dance 2020

FIFA 20

Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege

Need for Speed: Heat

New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe

 

The highlighted games are games that map primary actions to the face buttons and use the analog stick for basic camera controls. Just Dance and Ring Fit probably shouldn't count here, but that's still the majority of the best selling games this year. Don't take away my right analog stick. Nobody is arguing that. Just, there's a reason why Microsoft's controller became the standard here.

How would that analysis compare with the 20 best selling games of the last ten years? (I can cherry pick a data point too.)

@Reputator was clearly using hyperbole to make a point.  In modern gaming, the right analog stick is at least as important (if not more) than the face buttons.

[Ghost_MH]

8 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

How would that analysis compare with the 20 best selling games of the last ten years? (I can cherry pick a data point too.)

@Reputator was clearly using hyperbole to make a point.  In modern gaming, the right analog stick is at least as important (if not more) than the face buttons.

 

I just grabbed the most recent numbers I could find when I Googled "best selling games of 2020" and clicked on the first link. I'm not cherry picking anything. That would be way more work than anyone should care to do. Yeah, Call of Duty is super popular in the States. It's just crazy to me that anyone could argue that dual sticks are the only games anyone plays when the PS4 has Spider-Man, God of War, Persona, The FF7 remake, and so many more. These aren't games nobody plays.

[HardAct]

18 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

I don't think I'm the only one who remembers.

[Emblazon]

The two things that always bugged me the most about the DS4 is my ring fingers have no where to rest—I either have to move my pinky fingers off the controller, or have my ring fingers rest on top of other fingers. On the XB controller, everything, for my hands, just rests naturally. 
 

The other thing is the shape of the sticks. They were always convex before, and giant sweat magnets, prone to causing my thumbs to slide right off... but because they didn’t want to use Microsoft’s perfect stick design, they decided to make some ridiculous hybrid that’s part concave, part convex, and 100% horrible. Plus, the stick material is infinitely better on the XB controller. 
 

And one other thing that’s more of a minor gripe/annoyance. The fucking not-triggers. While the shape is better than previous instances, now that they added the smallest perceivable lip to L2/R2, it’s still terrible because it’s the ends of those buttons that the controller rests on. God forbid you try to watch a movie on your PlayStation. 

[legend]

5 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

 

Whoops, that's what I meant. Each change was minor until the DS4, which was the first major change in the controller (Share button, wider, not as light as the DS2, better triggers, buttons that feel more responsive, headphone jack, different analog sticks that felt better to move, touchpad that offers several new methods of input).

 

And since the weird issue with the peeling analog sticks has been rectified for years, the DS4 ranks up there as one of my favorites along with the Xbox One controller (which I wasn't as big on compared to the 360's but now like a lot better).

 

Ah yes, I think the way you phrased it originally makes sense I was just being dumb  

[legend]

I don't think the placement of the analogs matters at all because I think you can make the ergonomics of the handles work in a way that both the forward and back placement is easily usable. If a controller switched to both analogs forward, that would be fine, just wholly unnecessary and IMO focuses on the wrong part.

[cusideabelincoln]

 

 

[Paperclyp]

The analog stick thing has never been an issue for me. It doesn’t even register for me. 

[CastlevaniaNut18]

I was almost exclusively PS for years with the first three consoles, so it didn’t register for a long time. Then I started playing more on PC, using an Xbox controller and I’m like “oh, shit, this is so much better” to the point when I do pick up a DS on occasion, it’s kind of jarring. I can still play it relatively comfortably, but there’s no question for me which is the better design. 

[Keyser_Soze]

5 hours ago, Emblazon said:

The two things that always bugged me the most about the DS4 is my ring fingers have no where to rest—I either have to move my pinky fingers off the controller, or have my ring fingers rest on top of other fingers. On the XB controller, everything, for my hands, just rests naturally.

 

I'll give you a place for your ring fingers to rest

 

 

[Nokt]

8 hours ago, Reputator said:

 

No, actions are usually controlled by bumpers and triggers. You may occasionally press the face buttons to open doors/pick up/etc, or switch grenade types, and what-have-you. Even racing games barely use the face buttons, despite not being dual-stick games.

 

Nintendo got it right with the Wii U Pro controller.

 

 

Just a shame it was wasted on the Wii U.

I still think if you're trying to maximize potential, especially in a game like Call of Duty or Halo, claw grip is the most optimal. Which isn't possible on this controller. You lose the ability to use the face buttons and the analog at the same time unless you use your index finger to aim. You probably could argue that the DS4 is the most optimal because of its ability to dual claw grip, but since devs heavily under utilize that D-pad, the Xbox controller is the happy medium.

[Duderino]

11 hours ago, Reputator said:

 

No, actions are usually controlled by bumpers and triggers. You may occasionally press the face buttons to open doors/pick up/etc, or switch grenade types, and what-have-you. Even racing games barely use the face buttons, despite not being dual-stick games.

 

Nintendo got it right with the Wii U Pro controller.

 

 

Just a shame it was wasted on the Wii U.

 

These controllers need to be adaptable to all kinds of games though, including tittles that get more face button use.  The WiiU Pro controller missed that mark.  The only combination that felt decent together was a thumb on each stick.  It's just not a very universal design.

[SaysWho?]

15 hours ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

I was almost exclusively PS for years with the first three consoles, so it didn’t register for a long time. Then I started playing more on PC, using an Xbox controller and I’m like “oh, shit, this is so much better” to the point when I do pick up a DS on occasion, it’s kind of jarring. I can still play it relatively comfortably, but there’s no question for me which is the better design. 

 

You definitely notice the difference more when you're using a PS3 and then you use a 360 controller.

 

But damned if I don't really love the DS4. At the beginning of the gen, I was playing way more cross-gen just because there was still a lot I needed to play from last gen, and going from a PS4 to a PS3 controller was jarring, too. Sometimes I'd just plug the DS4 into the PS3, which allowed me to use it, for maximum comfort.  

[Chairslinger]

The argument about a 1:1 comparison between whether the sticks, d-pad, and face buttons and how important they are ignores an important factor; how the placement effects each one.

 

Even as someone who likes retro/arcade games a lot I wouldn't make the argument that the D-pad is more important overall in gaming now than the left stick....but the reason I still prefer the placement on the Dualshock line is because the stick loses essentially no functionality or even comfort by being in the secondary spot. While the d-pad in the secondary spot is uncomfortable at best, and useless at worst depending on the amount of speed and precision a 2D game requires.

 

 

[Brian]

I never use the d-pad. It’s time to get rid of the antiquated input method once and for all. Unfortunately gaming companies lack the courage

[JPDunks4]

3 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

 

You definitely notice the difference more when you're using a PS3 and then you use a 360 controller.

 

But damned if I don't really love the DS4. At the beginning of the gen, I was playing way more cross-gen just because there was still a lot I needed to play from last gen, and going from a PS4 to a PS3 controller was jarring, too. Sometimes I'd just plug the DS4 into the PS3, which allowed me to use it, for maximum comfort.  

The DS4 was a huuuge improvement over previous PS controllers.  

 

I borderline couldn't function on PS2 or PS3 controllers until I adjusted.  DS4 was pretty easy to get used to.

 

 

[AbsolutSurgen]

I'm guessing I started this debate with my troll-y "my body is symmetrical" comment (I do, actually prefer Sony's analog placement, but I recognize that it is my preference, opposed to it being an inherent advantage).

When I look at a lot of the controllers on different platforms, I see a lot of variation:

 

(Nintendo switched up it's design this gen, but I suspect that was due to wanting both Joycon's to being symmetrical, rather than them believing there was an inherent advantage to moving the right analog stick downward.)

To me, on current controllers, there really isn't a "primary" or "secondary" position, merely one position to the left of my thumb, and one that is to the right.

18 hours ago, Nokt said:

I still think if you're trying to maximize potential, especially in a game like Call of Duty or Halo, claw grip is the most optimal. Which isn't possible on this controller. You lose the ability to use the face buttons and the analog at the same time unless you use your index finger to aim. You probably could argue that the DS4 is the most optimal because of its ability to dual claw grip, but since devs heavily under utilize that D-pad, the Xbox controller is the happy medium.

 

[TwinIon]

I prefer the Xbox stick placement, but that's not why I disliked the old Sony controllers so much. Mostly, I found the old controllers far less comfortable than those on the Xbox. They seemed to fix those issues with the DS4 though. So as long as it's nice to hold, I don't care.

[ShreddieMercury]

I switch back pretty often between the DS and the Xbox One controller, and I honestly barely notice much of a difference.  I didn't initially like the stick placement on the DS, but it took almost no time at all to get used to.  I will say that the placement of the sticks on the Joy-Con make it nearly impossible to play any twin stick game oh the Switch in handheld mode, likely because they are both small.  I would have preferred the Wii-U tablet controller placement, as that's a very underrated and comfortable controller to use.

[Nokt]

5 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

While I got a good chuckle out of it. The whole conversation is about optimal analog placement overall.

[DPCyric]

On 4/8/2020 at 3:26 PM, Chris- said:

The drawback of having symmetrical sticks is more than made up for by the benefit of having a good d-pad. 

 

I used to have a major problem with the Dualshock until I gave in and became a multi-console owner now I appreciate it! I play FPS games on the Xbox and most everything else on the Playstation especially all of the 2D games I love.

 

On 4/9/2020 at 12:03 PM, Reputator said:

 

So like 2D indie games that people spend maybe 3% of their time playing?

 

Priorities.

 

I spend maybe 3% of my time playing 3D games that require the analog stick on the Playstation.

 

7 hours ago, ManUtdRedDevils said:

I never use the d-pad. It’s time to get rid of the antiquated input method once and for all. Unfortunately gaming companies lack the courage

 

I bet you are an iPhone user 

[AbsolutSurgen]

12 hours ago, Nokt said:

While I got a good chuckle out of it. The whole conversation is about optimal analog placement overall.

Yes - I used a meme to make it apparent I was "trying" to make a joke. 

Shit, I just googled the claw grip.  It looks like a great way to screw up your wrists for later in life.  RSI is no joke.

(I know they are expensive, but gaming with the paddles on a MS Elite / Scuf controller would probably be MUCH better in the long run than that grip.)

[legend]

17 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Nintendo switched up it's design this gen

 

 

[Rodimus]

I just need to know what game I’m getting at launch and how much sonI can pre-order.

[Nokt]

12 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Yes - I used a meme to make it apparent I was "trying" to make a joke. 

Shit, I just googled the claw grip.  It looks like a great way to screw up your wrists for later in life.  RSI is no joke.

(I know they are expensive, but gaming with the paddles on a MS Elite / Scuf controller would probably be MUCH better in the long run than that grip.)

I feel like that should have been the natural evolution of the controller anyways. You have 2-3 fingers on each hand you aren't using, put some buttons on the back of the controller. Instead they just keep overloading your thumbs with more buttons to press.