SaysWho?

I didn't know Bischoff was fired already. This comment is so good: According to Alvarez, nobody really liked working with him, and apparently Bruce Prichard was doing Smackdown anyway.

We know how it unfolded in 2009/2010: he didn't go for the public option as a way to get Republican votes, he received no Republican votes anyway, and there were already signs before Obama stepped into office that Republicans would not give the any votes on any big bills: So wtf were they compromising for if they knew they had no support on anything? And why does Biden think Trump is the problem and not the Republican Party when he should know better? Why not go for the public option and get it passed instead of compromising when you were already told that Republicans wouldn't vote for anything you were going to do? Because the Dems who voted against the ACA were the ones who lost anyway, why not make a good vote for an ACA with the public option that would have made it a better law and easier to run on in the future? Obama called the public option a sliver and offered limp-dick support for it; no Republican wants to support a public option now. What makes center-right moderates think that the majorities in Congress now, and Republicans currently control the Senate, will make it easier for Dems to pass it? And I want to go back to my earlier point: Democrats did not vote for the Iraq War thinking it was a good idea, barring a war hawk like Lieberman. Thousands are dead. So why not actually stop bad shit from happening even if it costs you your seat instead of demonizing the progressive left like the Democratic Leadership Council did by trying to be Republican-lite "rah rah America" politicians? Because progressives were correct with the public option, and Iraq, and marijuana, and criminal justice reform, and gun control, and gay marriage first before being lectured by center-right pseudo-moderates about how they don't know what they're talking about when they knew what they were talking about 20 years before the moderates did.

Bill Clinton was considered the good moderate choice, had a lot of baggage, and coasted to two elections. Trump is a known liar but won. What you're arguing against Hillary is what people argued against Bill and Trump from the beginning. You're admitting a radical is a better option than moderates who have won. Ask yourself why.

You're starting to understand why the argument for the center-right moderate falls on its face as you're saying the "radical" could have bested Trump easily over the bad normal moderate candidate because policies didn't matter.

So Bernie, who you have touted as someone who could have actually beaten Trump, is a radical who is easier to pin down as a radical by people on right-wing sites (unlike Obama who was unable to be attacked by Fox), yet is better than Hillary, the normal candidate. Sounds legit. This has been proven wrong for the past 30 years.

I don't know why TheGreatGamble upvoted this considering he thought Bernie was a better candidate than Hillary and you're saying Bernie's radical.

If we're going with the "mood" of the nation to excuse bad policy, then don't be surprised if the populist mood leads to policies you dislike. Democrats were scared. Senator Cleland voted for the Iraq War literally because he was in a tight reelection race and calls it the worst vote he ever made. Obama did not try as hard as he could for a public option. It isn't revisionist history; this was literally the debate at the time. POLITICO: W.H. backs away from public option (August 2009) Business Insider: Obama Is Ready To Drop "The Public Option" (August 2009) The Hill: The Obama administration’s shifting position on the public option (September 2009) ABC: Obama Calls For Public Option, Which He Once Hedged Against (October 2016) Why is the answer to all our problems something that was downplayed, a sliver, not the definition of the health care debate, supported but not the biggest deal in 2009? All the compromises netted him no Republican support, and a non-swing state Senator in Lieberman helped to torpedo it. Why not go big, then, if you're gonna gut much out of the law just to not get any of them to vote for it? Now it's the center of Biden's platform and he's lecturing progressives about how to pay for this and how to get that done when he couldn't get the public option done with majorities in both houses of Congress. They didn't even try to change public opinion on that; they were limp about it. They didn't go all-in like Trump does or the Tea Party did to try to change people's opinions. Same with gay marriage. Or marijuana legalization (which Harris failed to fight for as attorney general but now has seen the light). Or the Iraq War. I'm sorry, but the "far left" people prove time and again they were correct the first time but get lectured by the "normal" moderates later about how they don't know what they're talking about. What was seen as "far-left" at the time is now being adopted by the leading "moderate" candidate; let's grasp how nuts that is, not the

Ex-Pompeo Aide McKinley testifies he quit over Ukraine scandal

I mean, Giuliani was considered the center. That's not what I want a return to.

The problem is many would reject this premise entirely: 1. We haven't had "abnormal" Democrats in charge. There's this tendency for Republicans to be straight up crazy for decades, but once populist Democrats show up, it's now time for normalcy on both sides. 2. I don't think democrats were normal? What I mean is, they were running away from their own shadow starting in the 1990s, you had conservative ones like Richard Shelby in Alabama who turned Republican, you had ones without a lot of backbone of the early 2000s who voted for the Iraq War, you had Obama's press secretary his first year in office complain about the professional left, and now the supposed sane one talks vigorously about a public option when he should have been doing that when the Affordable Care Act was first being debated. It's been a lot harder to find what a Democrat is because they're scared to support their own policies, and I don't see how that's what we should strive to return to. 3. Not shifting the Overton window is why the Patriot Act passed, the Iraq War was voted for, a more ambitious Health Care Program was not chased, and Democrats were limp on their gay marriage support for years and couldn't come up with a good argument as to why it shouldn't be legal.

To my surprise, Bill Clinton captured the imagination of liberal voters. Also:

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You have made an analogy that speaks to people in a deep way.