Sony PlayStation 5 OT - Play Has No Limits, update: financial report indicates no major first-party/exclusive PS5 releases prior to end of March 2025, PS5 in "latter half" of console cycle

[SaysWho?]

 

 

[Brian]

13 minutes ago, best3444 said:

I haven't read or followed this thread. Can someone answer this... Which console will be more powerful?

I think it’s safe to say that Microsoft has the more powerful, but traditional console while Sony focused on the opposite. I can see multiplatform games not taking advantage of PS5’s uniqueness which could lead to a slightly better Sex version. At the same time, Sony first party Devs really have a cool opportunity to create new approaches to games. 
 

I am really interested to see Blue Point’s game. It sounds like they have been working on their game with this hardware in mind. It should really be a showpiece on what the PS5 can do. 

[atom631]

[AbsolutSurgen]

3 minutes ago, ManUtdRedDevils said:

I think it’s safe to say that Microsoft has the more powerful, but traditional console while Sony focused on the opposite. I can see multiplatform games not taking advantage of PS5’s uniqueness which could lead to a slightly better Sex version. At the same time, Sony first party Devs really have a cool opportunity to create new approaches to games. 
 

I am really interested to see Blue Point’s game. It sounds like they have been working on their game with this hardware in mind. It should really be a showpiece on what the PS5 can do. 

I tend to agree with you, particularly early in the generation.  SeX games should look marginally better.

Based on some comments that I've read from devs, I do think that a year (or two) in, the ability to stream in higher-quality assets faster, may result in better LOD for PS5 games.  Which could turn the tide.

[legend]

3 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

 

In addition to this, I feel most games targeting 30fps have been vastly more consistent this generation than last. Compare the Uncharted games to Uncharted 4 and Lost Legacy; besides the final chapter of Lost Legacy, these games were far more consistent beauties than their PS3 counterparts at the time despite the size/complexities of the set pieces. Horizon Zero Dawn doesn't seem like a game that could have ran as seamlessly as it did had it been released last gen. 

 

I don't feel confident saying one way or the other, but I certainly haven't felt like this gen was worse than last gen. Maybe that's because the console games I have played this gen were mostly high-tier exclusives, but I haven't felt a downward trend.

[Mr.Vic20]

Nioh 2 on PS4 Pro looks like shit! I realize this has little bearing on this current conversation but I feel the need to say this whenever possible! 

[DarkStar189]

19 hours ago, Bacon said:

I mean, unless there is a Fromsoft exclusive on the PS5, I'll be waiting for the higher powered version. Can't think of any Sony exclusives that I don't mind waiting for. As much as I liked the new GOW, I am fine waiting this time. Unless they REALLY up their game in the combat and bosses department. 

I wouldn't expect an upgraded ps5 model for at least 3 years (just like the ps4 to ps4 pro). With how fast these hard drives are, I'm jumping in asap. I watched some video on YouTube this morning of a guy who got hands on time with the Series X. Seeing him jump between multiple suspended games at once was awesome. I think he clicked through 4 different games. They all loaded up, in game in probably 10 seconds or less. 

[Bacon]

4 hours ago, DarkStar189 said:

I wouldn't expect an upgraded ps5 model for at least 3 years (just like the ps4 to ps4 pro).

Yeah, I expect to wait awhile. I don't think I got the PS4 until a year later. I got the destiny bundle. Just, I don't really care for many of the Sony first party titles. GOW is the only one I have really liked, and I am fine waiting until the "pro' version of the PS5 for that. As I said, only a Fromsoft exclusive or if GOW really ups their game in the combat and bosses department, those are the only two ways I can see myself getting it before that. I mean, there could be some super new IP as well but idk. 

[Chairslinger]

Backwards compatibility is pretty disappointing to me. I am pretty securely in Sony's camp at this point so I'll definately be getting a PS5, but likely wait a few years like I did with PS4(end of 2016).

 

I already have an insurmountable backlog that rarely gets touched anyway because of Minecraft, so I have little interest in being an early adopter just to play a half dozen exclusives that will release in the first two or three years.

[Duderino]

It's worth reading Maximov's full twitter thread:
 

 

 

An SSD that, with decompression, can push 8-9 GB/s will allow for higher levels of detail.  Why? Because LODs no longer have to sit in RAM for quicker access.

 

Something else to consider, this could also have big implications for other memory intensive tasks.   That means more animations, more asset variety, more audio, etc.  Also worth noting that Raytracing BVH trees are quite memory intensive.

[vaxick]

Very excited to see audio gaining more focus this generation on the PS5.  I've always hated the lack of true spacial audio when gaming with headphones on. While you could always tell where a sound was coming from, it was always so sloppy spinning around hearing voices for example not smoothly adjusting with your direction.  Borderlands 3 was awful with dialogue when you weren't looking at the character.  

[Duderino]

 

[cusideabelincoln]

That was a great presentation, but now I'm a little sad I decided not to get a motherboard with PCI-E 4.0.  Should have spent that extra $50   But I guess on the bright side, by the time any PC game actually takes advantage of an 4.0 SSD I'll probably have the urge to upgrade again anyway.

 

So I wonder how big of a competitive advantage the 3D audio is going to give cross-platform multiplayer games, hmmm?

 

And while I loved Spider-man and am glad the second one is coming so soon, I didn't really feel that restricted when playing the game.  The freedom and variety could always be turned up a notch, but I'm way more excited to see what they can do with the next God of War game.

[Mr.Vic20]

2 minutes ago, cusideabelincoln said:

That was a great presentation, but now I'm a little sad I decided not to get a motherboard with PCI-E 4.0.  Should have spent that extra $50   But I guess on the bright side, by the time any PC game actually takes advantage of an 4.0 SSD I'll probably have the urge to upgrade again anyway.

 

So I wonder how big of a competitive advantage the 3D audio is going to give cross-platform multiplayer games, hmmm?

 

And while I loved Spider-man and am glad the second one is coming so soon, I didn't really feel that restricted when playing the game.  The freedom and variety could always be turned up a notch, but I'm way more excited to see what they can do with the next God of War game.

I had the same decision to make regarding this last mono and still went with a PCIe 3.0 board, but I figured such issues would not be truly relevant until 2021. 

[ShreddieMercury]

The audio stuff sounds really interesting, but it also reminds me of something like Nintendo's "HD rumble" in that I doubt it will be utilized outside of a small minority of uniquely designed first-party games.

[cusideabelincoln]

2 minutes ago, Mr.Vic20 said:

I had the same decision to make regarding this last mono and still went with a PCIe 3.0 board, but I figured such issues would not be truly relevant until 2021. 

 

Relevant for you in 2021.  For me and other middling class people, 2022-2023 is probably the time frame when the drives would become reasonably priced anyway, particularly if the world economy is going to be in stalemate for an extended period of time.

[crispy4000]

 

From NX gamer.

[DPCyric]

Tempest audio sounds amazing and will be great with PSVR. The difference in TFlops doesn't seem like that big of a deal I feel like art style is more important than raw power at this point. However the giant walk back on BC has me out until PSVR2 launches. I'm honestly shocked I thought PS5 would be my launch console and I would get XSX later but MS is killing it.

[vaxick]

Sony stated today the PS5 will support an overwhelmingly majority of PS4 games.

 

https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/20/21188585/sony-ps5-backwards-compatibility-ps4-games-support-majority-plus-titles

[Brian]

I fully expect Sony to focus on the top 100 and when stats show a small minority use BC after launch, they will drop BC like a bad habit 

[Keyser_Soze]

32 minutes ago, ManUtdRedDevils said:

I fully expect Sony to focus on the top 100 and when stats show a small minority use BC after launch, they will drop BC like a bad habit 

 

Honestly 100 is more than they need. They don't even have 100 first party games. The rest would be multi-platform trash no one would ever want to replay.

[AbsolutSurgen]

The only BC games I think I will care about are Last of Us 2 and Ghosts of Tsushima.

9 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Honestly 100 is more than they need. They don't even have 100 first party games. The rest would be multi-platform trash no one would ever want to replay.

I think most of the top 100 us made up of multi-platform trash (probably 7 of them are CoD games, and another 7 are NBA 2k games).

[heydude93]

There's tons of multiplatform games worth playing and some console exclusives that aren't.  Based on that article, Sony's looking into having at least a few hundred done at launch, and many of those could get framerate boosts and more technical improvements.  Imagining Red Dead 2, AC:Origins, The Witcher 3, RE2 and 3 remake, Prey, Control, and more with those enhancements is hype worthy and "Overwhelming majority of all PS4 games" sounds pretty comprehensive if you average out the ACTUAL shovelware this gen.  So yeah, looks like the BC feature should end up pleasing just about everyone.  And what isn't there can be remade in Dreams.

[Remarkableriots]

I will be happy if it has FF XIV available with the Pro features or better!

[imthesoldier]

1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

The only BC games I think I will care about are Last of Us 2 and Ghosts of Tsushima.

I think most of the top 100 us made up of multi-platform trash (probably 7 of them are CoD games, and another 7 are NBA 2k games).

 

I think it's fairly safe to say that every single 1st party PS4 title will be included as part of the PS4 BC feature. I would also expect most if not all 3rd Party AAA titles to be included as well, and only real wild card might be Indie games/Digital Only titles. I am also curious how this will affect PS2 titles that are on PS4 and such. I cannot recall if PS2 titles on PS4 were emulated to work on PS4 via some engine, or if the game code was altered to work with the hardware itself. 

 

Either way, PS1 and PS2 I think will still happen at some point, but perhaps it's not a "priority" for Sony right now. PS3 I don't even see happening unless the use of the SSD can help alleviate some of the emulation overhead or something, and somehow make it work much easier and faster. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

13 minutes ago, imthesoldier said:

 

I think it's fairly safe to say that every single 1st party PS4 title will be included as part of the PS4 BC feature. I would also expect most if not all 3rd Party AAA titles to be included as well, and only real wild card might be Indie games/Digital Only titles. I am also curious how this will affect PS2 titles that are on PS4 and such. I cannot recall if PS2 titles on PS4 were emulated to work on PS4 via some engine, or if the game code was altered to work with the hardware itself. 

 

Either way, PS1 and PS2 I think will still happen at some point, but perhaps it's not a "priority" for Sony right now. PS3 I don't even see happening unless the use of the SSD can help alleviate some of the emulation overhead or something, and somehow make it work much easier and faster. 

The PS5 should be fast enough to emulate a PS3 -- I am confused by your SSD comment.

1 hour ago, heydude93 said:

There's tons of multiplatform games worth playing and some console exclusives that aren't.  Based on that article, Sony's looking into having at least a few hundred done at launch, and many of those could get framerate boosts and more technical improvements.  Imagining Red Dead 2, AC:Origins, The Witcher 3, RE2 and 3 remake, Prey, Control, and more with those enhancements is hype worthy and "Overwhelming majority of all PS4 games" sounds pretty comprehensive if you average out the ACTUAL shovelware this gen.  So yeah, looks like the BC feature should end up pleasing just about everyone.  And what isn't there can be remade in Dreams.

If you want to play old multiplatform games today, there is another platform that won't be held back by the "BC" "medium" settings that are in the PS4 versions -- and will ultimately look better than a PS4 BC emulation.  I don't understand how a slight resolution or framerate increase makes it hypeworthy.

[imthesoldier]

39 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

The PS5 should be fast enough to emulate a PS3 -- I am confused by your SSD comment.

 

I was referring to what some devs have been talking about with regards to how the fast speeds of the SSD work in conjunction with the Ram. I'm purely speculating here, but I wonder if PS3 emulation might be easier with it rather than simply brute forcing it like what folks do on PC. I could be completely talking out of my ass here, but given what the developers have already said about how the PS5's transfer speeds will transform how games are designed, I wonder if the same could be applied with emulation. 

[cusideabelincoln]

57 minutes ago, imthesoldier said:

 

I was referring to what some devs have been talking about with regards to how the fast speeds of the SSD work in conjunction with the Ram. I'm purely speculating here, but I wonder if PS3 emulation might be easier with it rather than simply brute forcing it like what folks do on PC. I could be completely talking out of my ass here, but given what the developers have already said about how the PS5's transfer speeds will transform how games are designed, I wonder if the same could be applied with emulation. 

 

Emulation is mostly CPU bottlenecked even when you have low level access, so SSD speed probably won't help.

[SaysWho?]

13 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Honestly 100 is more than they need. They don't even have 100 first party games. The rest would be multi-platform trash no one would ever want to replay.

 

They have more than 100, I think. I'll count because my streaming services are fucked so I might as well do something of benefit.  

 

EDIT: It's easily over 100.

[vaxick]

I already posted it, but I'll say it again, Sony stated yesterday an overwhelmingly majority of PS4 games will work on the PS4.  Mark Cerny was just using the top 100 as an example.  

[Spork3245]

2 hours ago, imthesoldier said:

 

I was referring to what some devs have been talking about with regards to how the fast speeds of the SSD work in conjunction with the Ram. I'm purely speculating here, but I wonder if PS3 emulation might be easier with it rather than simply brute forcing it like what folks do on PC. I could be completely talking out of my ass here, but given what the developers have already said about how the PS5's transfer speeds will transform how games are designed, I wonder if the same could be applied with emulation. 

The SSD helps with the ability to load assets, effectively expanding the size of the available ram. It doesn’t affect performance in the way you seem to stating.

[Duderino]

Interesting take (first quoted post) on the SSD relative to both the PS5 and Series X.

 

tldr:

Quote

So what will be the end result?
It's pretty simple.
PS5: relies on more artwork and pushing more data through the system. Potentially 2x performance in that.
XSeX: relies more on in-frame calculations, procedural. Potentially 30% performance in that.
Who will win: dunno. There are pros and cons for each.

Keep in mind this is still speculation.


Also:

  

 

 

[Keyser_Soze]

14 hours ago, heydude93 said:

There's tons of multiplatform games worth playing and some console exclusives that aren't.  Based on that article, Sony's looking into having at least a few hundred done at launch, and many of those could get framerate boosts and more technical improvements.  Imagining Red Dead 2, AC:Origins, The Witcher 3, RE2 and 3 remake, Prey, Control, and more with those enhancements is hype worthy and "Overwhelming majority of all PS4 games" sounds pretty comprehensive if you average out the ACTUAL shovelware this gen.  So yeah, looks like the BC feature should end up pleasing just about everyone.  And what isn't there can be remade in Dreams.

 

Yeah but the game doesn't get better. You're still playing the inferior version on a superior console. If you play Witcher 3 on PS5 it's not going to be as good as Witcher 3 on PC, I mean it won't boost it to that level.

[heydude93]

 

4 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Yeah but the game doesn't get better. You're still playing the inferior version on a superior console. If you play Witcher 3 on PS5 it's not going to be as good as Witcher 3 on PC, I mean it won't boost it to that level.

Good thing i'm not a graphics snob then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

17 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

If you want to play old multiplatform games today, there is another platform that won't be held back by the "BC" "medium" settings that are in the PS4 versions -- and will ultimately look better than a PS4 BC emulation.  I don't understand how a slight resolution or framerate increase makes it hypeworthy.

 

Dudes, the article hints at not just ports of PS4 games, but Sony working with the original dev studios to tweak and enhance them to take advantage of next gen technology. It's possible remasters and remakes are gonna keep rolling out too. Will assets like models and textures in BC games be reworked ? Probably not, but the press statements mentions we could get a boost in framerate, resolution, loading times, and even stuff like shadow quality and fixing of glitches and technical issues that couldn't be done this gen.  There might also be additional issues via the porting(?) process to be fixed after launch, but that should be expected.

 

Whatever happens, at the end of the day we can only guess right now since this is unprecedented in the industry and nobody knows for sure what to expect until Sony does an official reveal later this year, when/if that happens.

 

[JPDunks4]

11 hours ago, vaxick said:

I already posted it, but I'll say it again, Sony stated yesterday an overwhelmingly majority of PS4 games will work on the PS4.  Mark Cerny was just using the top 100 as an example.  

 

Cerny was talking about at launch.

 

The new blog update very purposefully I think failed to mention that the vast majority of games will be playable at launch.  At least that's how I read it.  

 

Either they are just damage controlling and trying to market it in a better way, or they are going back to actually try to get more games playable day one.

 

Another key point in the blog is that titles that do need work will be sent to the original developer to try to get it working.  I don't see many developers wanting to go back again and work on old games for BC purposes.  It was one thing to enhance games for the mid gen refreshes, but to have to work on old games again for BC seems doubtful.