Stop demonizing Trump supporters.

[Greatoneshere]

52 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

My hunch from my years of studying how people make decisions is that demonization doesn’t do anything to positively impact behavior, so it’s a poor strategy to employ if you actually want people to make better decisions.

 

But it makes people feel better and is far easier than walking the long journey of change with a person.

 

I'm the opposite. I used to believe demonization doesn't work, but politically, Republicans fight Democrats and Democrats keep trying to not demonize Republicans in reponse. It doesn't work. The high road is over @sblfilms. Sometimes, you have to take the low road to come out ahead.

 

We have to fight them politically to beat them, just as they do us. It doesn't make me "feel better" to demonize them, it's where the logic and evidence leads us to (and there's plenty).

 

You keep assuming these people "will" make better decisions. They are a hate/death cult. Wake up. It's over. They can't be saved. We must force change on them (that will help them). 

 

You sound like the person who keeps getting punched in the face by someone and in response is still talking diplomacy as they keep punching you in the face and you're talking through bloody teeth. PUNCH THEM ONCE.  

[skillzdadirecta]

There's a difference between "Demonizing" and "Calling things for what they are." It's like racists that have turned being called racist into some kind of slur... completely ignoring the fact that THEY-ARE-RACIST. I find it hard to believe that people can actually look at the behavior of hard core Trump supporters, listen to what they actually say, and say "You're being unfair in judging this people by what they say and their actions!" Not just regarding racial issues but a whole HOST of shit. I mean this pandemic should be a fucking wake up call... Nope. "Well Meaning White People" STILL want to make excuses for them and their abhorrent behavior. 

[Greatoneshere]

Just now, skillzdadirecta said:

There's a difference between "Demonizing" and "Calling things for what they are." It's like racists that have turned being called racist into some kind of slur... completely ignoring the fact that THEY-ARE-RACIST. I find it hard to believe that people can actually look at the behavior of hard core Trump supporters, listen to what they actually say, and say "You're being unfair in judging this people by what they say and their actions!" Not just regarding racial issues but a whole HOST of shit. I mean this pandemic should be a fucking wake up call... Nope. "Well Meaning White People" STILL want to make excuses for them and their abhorrent behavior. 

 

Goddamn yes this! Well said.

[SuperSpreader]

If they can shame Lindsey Graham to hate gays and be crazy I can shame them to be cordial and act neighborly. 

[mclumber1]

A lot of my friends and family are Trump supporters.  If Trump loses tonight, I won't gloat, or shame them for supporting Trump.  I'd rather maintain good relationships than irreparably damage them.

[skillzdadirecta]

And the notion that some "Mythical Republican" will come along and pay attention to the material needs of minorites in the inner cities is a fucking fantasy. Black and Latino Conservatives and Republicans have been trying to convince the Party to do this for DECADES pointing out that there are opportunites in not only Black and Latino communities but in Muslim, Indian, Hindu and other socially conservative communities as well. IT HASN'T HAPPENED. Why? Because Republicans have invested too much in the idea of the danger of "The Other" that it makes the majority of these communities recoil from the party even though they may have some things in common from a social stand point. This "Mythical Republican" who will make significant inroads into Minority communites is AT LEAST a generation way IF they will ever materialze. Also the Republican base would NEVER go for that shit.

 

My Father is a religious muslim retired cop who is pro gun and pretty socially conservative. HE WOULD NEVER vote for Republican. Why? Because he's NOT BLIND OR STUPID. Same with my deceased Grandparents who were both very religious (Granpa was a reverand). MOST black folks ain't gonna fall for the okey doke. Some will... but most won't. Can't join a party that doesn't WANT you.

[SuperSpreader]

Just now, skillzdadirecta said:

And the notion that some "Mythical Republican" will come along and pay attention to the material needs of minorites in the inner cities is a fucking fantasy. Black and Latino Conservatives and Republicans have been trying to convince the Party to do this for DECADES pointing out that there are opportunites in not only Black and Latino communities but in Muslim, Indian, Hindu and other socially conservative communities as well. IT HASN'T HAPPENED. Why? Because Republicans have invested too much in the danger of "The Other" that it makes the majority of these communities recoil from the party even though they may have some things in common from a social stand point. This "Mythical Republican" who will make significant inroads into Minority communites is AT LEAST a generation way IF they will ever materialze.

 

My Father is a religious muslim retired cop who is pro gun and pretty socially conservative. HE WOULD NEVER vote for Republican. Why? Because he's NOT BLIND OR STUPID. Same with my deceased Grandparents who were both very religious (Granpa was a reverand). MOST black folks ain't gonna fall for the okey doke. Some will... but most won't. Can't join a party that doesn't WANT you.

The closest they got was Dubya lol

[Greatoneshere]

6 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

A lot of my friends and family are Trump supporters.  If Trump loses tonight, I won't gloat, or shame them for supporting Trump.  I'd rather maintain good relationships than irreparably damage them.

 

Me demonizing them on this board doesn't mean I treat anyone (including Trump supporters) worse in real life. Unless they start acting poorly in public, I leave them alone. I'm not a psychopath people.  

 

Here is one of many examples of these Trump supporters I should apparently stop demonizing. 

 

 

[SuperSpreader]

1 minute ago, skillzdadirecta said:

And the notion that some "Mythical Republican" will come along and pay attention to the material needs of minorites in the inner cities is a fucking fantasy. Black and Latino Conservatives and Republicans have been trying to convince the Party to do this for DECADES pointing out that there are opportunites in not only Black and Latino communities but in Muslim, Indian, Hindu and other socially conservative communities as well. IT HASN'T HAPPENED. Why? Because Republicans have invested too much in the danger of "The Other" that it makes the majority of these communities recoil from the party even though they may have some things in common from a social stand point. This "Mythical Republican" who will make significant inroads into Minority communites is AT LEAST a generation way IF they will ever materialze.

 

My Father is a religious muslim retired cop who is pro gun and pretty socially conservative. HE WOULD NEVER vote for Republican. Why? Because he's NOT BLIND OR STUPID. Same with my deceased Grandparents who were both very religious (Granpa was a reverand). MOST black folks ain't gonna fall for the okey doke. Some will... but most won't. Can't join a party that doesn't WANT you.

WAit what about Kanye that didn't sway you? Whaaaat??

[skillzdadirecta]

1 minute ago, SlipperySlope said:

WAit what about Kanye that didn't sway you? Whaaaat??

Kanye, Ice Cube, Lil Wayne... Icons of the black civil rights movement one and all 

[SuperSpreader]

Listen guys. The point is, we want to help you crucify gays and women, but you gotta let us have some nails! 

[skillzdadirecta]

and I have PLENTY of conservative, Republican friends some I suspect VOTED for Trump the first time. NONE openly defend his more reprehensible bullshit because no rational person COULD. Trump isn't even a real "Conservative". He's his own thing.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

2 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

 I wasn't commenting on YOUR posts specifically... I wasn't aware that's the point you're making.  Like I said, the economic common ground that poor whites have with minorities will ALWAYS be overshadowed by racial and cultural concerns. This has been proven time and time again. The economic pitch HAS been made and it is routinely rejected because poor whites have been told that if others benefit from policies and programs that will benefit THEM as well, it's taking AWAY from them. 

 

Trump hasn't pitched ANY program or policy that will affect his voters' specific concerns besides cutting taxes for the rich and starting a trade war with China that FUCKED farmers and other industries in this country big time. His appeal isn't his policies. It's what he represents. We are living through the last vestiges of the old power dynamic in this country and they are not going without a fight.

In fact the "economics in the streets, racism in the sheets" was the FDR new deal coalition. Pulled together the southern democratic party and a non-trivial amount of black voters (historically republican at this point) on economics, even though the new deal, especially in the south, gave benefits to whites at the expense of, or instead of, blacks. This racism just wasn't the defining characteristic of the Roosevelt administration

[ort]

55 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Kanye, Ice Cube, Lil Wayne... Icons of the black civil rights movement one and all 

 

 

 

Lil Pump dude, come on! Has the video of that been posted? Holy shit, talk about cringy...

 

Remember when the talking head ghouls on Fox News all freaked out because Obama was chums with Common? Or how they always dismiss any celebrity opinion on anything as completely irrelevant and spend all their time demonizing and belittling celebrities who speak about politics?

 

I wonder what they'll say about this... oh wait, I know... nothing.

 

 

 

[Iculus]

1 hour ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Kanye, Ice Cube, Lil Wayne... Icons of the black civil rights movement one and all 

the entire interview is great, but this seems relevant. 

[ort]

50 Cent has backed Trump as well.

 

Ice Cube was mentioned above but he has NOT backed Trump. He helped found a group that is trying to promote pro-black policy changes in this country and they met with the Trump administration to go over their agenda and he was heavily criticized for doing so... but he is not endorsing or supporting Trump.

[skillzdadirecta]

3 minutes ago, ort said:

50 Cent has backed Trump as well.

 

Ice Cube was mentioned above but he has NOT backed Trump. He helped found a group that is trying to promote pro-black policy changes in this country and they met with the Trump administration to go over their agenda and he was heavily criticized for doing so... but he is not endorsing or supporting Trump.

Ice Cube's business partner is a former business partner of Steve Bannon's which is how that connection with Kushner and the Trump campaign was even made so... yeah. And nobody gives a fuck about 50 Cent. He's a full time internet Troll. Nobody take's him seriously.

[Jason]

very fine people on both sides

 

http://www.independent.co.uk//img/shortcut-icons/icon-192x192.png Trump campaign mocks Biden as he visits son’s grave on Election Day

WWW.INDEPENDENT.CO.UK

---

President’s campaign issues poorly-timed attack as Democrat visits family graves on final day of the election

 

[BloodyHell]

1 minute ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Ice Cube's business partner is a former business partner of Steve Bannon's which is how that connection with Kushner and the Trump campaign was even made so... yeah. And nobody gives a fuck about 50 Cent. He's a full time internet Troll. Nobody take's him seriously.

So Ice Cube supports Trump because his business partner does?

 

Because i’ve seen no claims by him that say that. And meeting with someone to affect change is in no way supporting that person.

[skillzdadirecta]

9 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

So Ice Cube supports Trump because his business partner does?

 

Because i’ve seen no claims by him that say that. And meeting with someone to affect change is in no way supporting that person.

Frankly, I don't give a fuck who Ice Cube supports and neither should anyone else 

[Oberon]

1 hour ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Me demonizing them on this board doesn't mean I treat anyone (including Trump supporters) worse in real life. Unless they start acting poorly in public, I leave them alone. I'm not a psychopath people.  

 

Here is one of many examples of these Trump supporters I should apparently stop demonizing. 

 

 

She feels awfully confident standing next to those "rapists and drug dealers"

[MarSolo]

4 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Frankly, I don't give a fuck who Ice Cube supports and neither should anyone else 

Right?

 

Frasier is my favorite sitcom, and Kelsey Grammer one of my favorite actors, despite the fact that he’s a Republican. 
 

What makes him different is he isn’t a complete asshole about it like James Woods is.

[skillzdadirecta]

Jon Voight is a GREAT actor... he's also a hardcore conservative. Hell growing up most of the 80's Action stars were Republican. Like ALL of them. I still loved their movies. 

[MarSolo]

Just now, skillzdadirecta said:

Jon Voight is a GREAT actor... he's also a hardcore conservative. Hell growing up most of the 80's Action stars were Republican. Like ALL of them. I still loved their movies. 

Exactly, and most of them aren’t out there flaunting it while screaming their careers are ruined because of it.

 

No one wants to hire Dean Cain and Scott Baio because they fucking suck.

[marioandsonic]

We have this tendency to think that only the purest of souls can create beautiful works of art, and are the only ones worthy of celebrity worship.  We also have problems separating the art from the artist.

 

John Lasseter helped create millions of childhoods with the creation of Pixar.  He also has been accused of sexual misconduct. 

 

Same with John Kricfaluci, whose cartoon Ren and Stimpy helped changed the course of animation in the 90s.  He also has a reputation of being one of the most insufferable people to work with ever, and is accused of pedophila.

 

And don't even get me started on Michael Jackson.

[Kal-El814]

12 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Jon Voight is a GREAT actor... he's also a hardcore conservative. Hell growing up most of the 80's Action stars were Republican. Like ALL of them. I still loved their movies. 

 

I mean... let’s also acknowledge that so many of those 80’s action movies in of themselves are right-wing jackoff material.

[Keyser_Soze]

I think Ice Cube's official stance was he would support whoever would implement a plan with what he talked about with the president.

[ort]

30 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Frankly, I don't give a fuck who Ice Cube supports and neither should anyone else 

 

I also do not.

 

He was a guest on a podcast I listened to and says he is not really supporting either candidate and is generally not a fan of politics. He's definitely not a Trump supporter.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

25 minutes ago, CayceG said:

I don't know quite how to distill it yet. Democratic policies should go farther and be more blanketed to reach more people more effectively. Some form of 'compassionate social policies' messaging is better for the country as a whole materially, and should be for that alone--not for the purposes of getting votes. People vote for the country they want and support candidates that represent the country they want. Which means some people want Fascism and racism to be the framework for the country. That's poisonous. 

Democrats try, but are met with harsh opposition from Republicans. Republicans frighten people with words like “socialism”. Then you have people on Medicare and social security saying they don’t want “socialism”. 
 

The problem I see with most Republicans is they treat the two political parties like fucking sports teams, and the GOP for them is the home team. So it doesn’t matter how much they get fucked over. It definitely doesn’t matter how much other people get fucked over. As long as the GOP wins. 

[skillzdadirecta]

18 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

I mean... let’s also acknowledge that so many of those 80’s action movies in of themselves are right-wing jackoff material.

Blame Golan-Globus 

[Alpha1Cowboy]

On 11/2/2020 at 2:47 AM, Fizzzzle said:

The point is Republicans are trying to play your emotions. YoU ThInK ThIS iS BaAd? IMAGINE HOW MUCH WORSE IT WOULD BE!!!!"

Redneck americans absolutely have real concerns. They are absolutely ignored by the general elections.

 

I guess I could say it like this... Redneck americans are being gaslit by things like abortion and the death penalty to get them to vote against their own interest on everything else.  I suppose my point is that these are still people who are not being heard by the government, and they deserve to be heard.

 

I kind of contradicted myself there. Ultimately rednecks are people, too. Their views don't matter less.

 

 

They aren't being gaslit..... when confronted with facts they refuse to acknowledge those facts.  When my own family tells me the Dems are gonna take their guns I simply ask them how.   I explain what it takes legally to make a new constitutional amendment and who votes and ask them to list the 33 states that would ratify taking their guns.  They can't do it...they can't even come up with 5 legitimate states that would vote to ban firearms completely...so they clearly know its not true...

[TwinIon]

For myself, I simply don't understand Trump supporters.

 

I understand the few wealthy people that basically just want lower taxes on their vacation homes or private planes or whatever. I understand the McConnel types that see Trump's influence and use it for their own ends. Both of those rely on the idea that they see what Trump really is, but they chose to ignore it for their own benefit. That makes sense to me. Everyone has to look past the failings of politicians to some extent, Trump just takes it to an extreme.

 

In 2016 I understood people who didn't like Trump but had been conditioned to hate Hillary and put in votes in a sort of protest.

 

What I don't get are the people that still show up to his rallies and pledge their undying support for him. The people that swear up and down that he's the opposite of exactly who he shows himself to be at every opportunity. The people that proclaim his genius in every boneheaded move he makes. The people that love how he "says it like it is" when he's lying about the color of the sky. The people that shift their positions on any given topic as soon as Trump announces his position.

 

 

It's a cult that I just can't wrap my head around. I can look at Scientology and see why people fall for that. My wife has us watching the documentaries on NXIVM and while I think that dude comes off as very much a college freshman's idea of a philosopher, I can kind of understand how people fell into his trap. In general I feel like I can see why people engage with those I might write off as obvious scam artists.

 

Not so with Trump.

 

Is it just the money? I never watched the Apprentice, so maybe I lack some popular insight into how he was portrayed to a national audience, but I just don't see what genuinely attracts people to this man. Especially given how fruitless his Presidency has been. It's not like there is any point on the Republican agenda he really accomplished other than getting some Supreme Court appointments, but those are just luck of the draw, not some brilliant masterminded outcome. Is it simply the "us versus them" mentality that he fosters so egregiously? It's not like all the other primary candidates in 2016 were working on platforms of national unity.

 

I just don't get it. I don't understand how this man, of all people, can inspire such incredible party loyalty so broadly. If anything, it's that widespread support I can't fathom most of all. If it was a few cult members here and there, I'd write it off as an anomaly I couldn't be bothered to look into, but it's not. It's a huge swath of this country that seems to be behind him no matter what, and I just can't figure out how that happened, even as I've watched it in real time.

 

[Mr.Vic20]

3 minutes ago, TwinIon said:

For myself, I simply don't understand Trump supporters.

 

I understand the few wealthy people that basically just want lower taxes on their vacation homes or private planes or whatever. I understand the McConnel types that see Trump's influence and use it for their own ends. Both of those rely on the idea that they see what Trump really is, but they chose to ignore it for their own benefit. That makes sense to me. Everyone has to look past the failings of politicians to some extent, Trump just takes it to an extreme.

 

In 2016 I understood people who didn't like Trump but had been conditioned to hate Hillary and put in votes in a sort of protest.

 

What I don't get are the people that still show up to his rallies and pledge their undying support for him. The people that swear up and down that he's the opposite of exactly who he shows himself to be at every opportunity. The people that proclaim his genius in every boneheaded move he makes. The people that love how he "says it like it is" when he's lying about the color of the sky. The people that shift their positions on any given topic as soon as Trump announces his position.

 

 

It's a cult that I just can't wrap my head around. I can look at Scientology and see why people fall for that. My wife has us watching the documentaries on NXIVM and while I think that dude comes off as very much a college freshman's idea of a philosopher, I can kind of understand how people fell into his trap. In general I feel like I can see why people engage with those I might write off as obvious scam artists.

 

Not so with Trump.

 

Is it just the money? I never watched the Apprentice, so maybe I lack some popular insight into how he was portrayed to a national audience, but I just don't see what genuinely attracts people to this man. Especially given how fruitless his Presidency has been. It's not like there is any point on the Republican agenda he really accomplished other than getting some Supreme Court appointments, but those are just luck of the draw, not some brilliant masterminded outcome. Is it simply the "us versus them" mentality that he fosters so egregiously? It's not like all the other primary candidates in 2016 were working on platforms of national unity.

 

I just don't get it. I don't understand how this man, of all people, can inspire such incredible party loyalty so broadly. If anything, it's that widespread support I can't fathom most of all. If it was a few cult members here and there, I'd write it off as an anomaly I couldn't be bothered to look into, but it's not. It's a huge swath of this country that seems to be behind him no matter what, and I just can't figure out how that happened, even as I've watched it in real time.

 

It's not that hard to understand, he validates their worst aspects and makes them feel like they were right about those "values" and beliefs all along. It's that simple. 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

1 hour ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

I mean... let’s also acknowledge that so many of those 80’s action movies in of themselves are right-wing jackoff material.

And if the movies want official DOD/american government support (troops, vehicles, etc) then the script needs to be approved by DOD/cia/etc. Oliver stone did an interview with the citations needed podcast on this, it was very interesting

[BloodyHell]

3 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Frankly, I don't give a fuck who Ice Cube supports and neither should anyone else 

That’s definitely true. I just don’t think he deserves to be labeled as a Trump Supporter like Kanye or Candice Owens.