Stop demonizing Trump supporters.

[CitizenVectron]

Fizzle, if your family is already watching Fox News and using Facebook, then it is too late. It doesn't matter what a Democrat says to them, they'll only hear the right-wing filtered version.

[Reputator]

5 hours ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

They don’t do themselves any favors with their actions. My own family largely supports Trump and it’s mostly because they love his racism, think he’ll protect their guns, and appoint anti-abortion and anti-LGBT judges. 
 

That’s pretty fuckin’ deplorable, IMO. 

 

I really don't have time to read every comment here, but I think this sums everything up pretty well.

 

Their "real" concerns are how their discriminatory beliefs are being "violated". Those are not concerns any politician should gratify.

[Signifyin(g)Monkey]

Half agree, half disagree with OP.  To me it depends on the kind of Trump supporter.

 

I know a few, and some of them are quite reasonable, decent people who vote for Trump for mostly economic reasons (frackers or miners who don’t like the Democratic positions on the environment, for example) or because they’re very anti-gun control.  (Farmers who like to hunt, mostly). Others I know vote for him because they’re religious and can’t vote for anyone pro-choice.  
 

I disagree with these folks, but can respect their views even when we disagree.

 

But I simply cannot respect the Trump supporters who like him because their sympathies run with the ‘proud boys’ and neo-confederates.  Or because they think women need to go back to being housewives.  Fortunately I don’t know many, and I think they are small in number.

 

I do think the Democrats could benefit electorally from widening their tent again to people who are on the left on many issues but break with the party on guns, the environment or abortion.  Many of these voters went to Trump.  But this also points to the bind they’re in, since this would alienate the urban wing of the party that thinks it isn’t left *enough*.

 

Basically, for both parties, polarization will make it hard for them to hold together a coalition diverse enough to be electorally dominant without using electoral chicanery like gerrymandering.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

You fucking people just lol 

 

The reason the gop runs with the culture war shit is because it works. It's so deeply ingrained that supporting trump, and to a lesser extent Republicans, is a cultural signifier, not something of deeply held beliefs. It's why coal and fracking is such a bfd, even though so few peoples jobs are in these industries. It's why it doesn't actually matter that the Republican platform is basically "whatever trump wants"

 

A green new deal, a literal jobs program towards carbon free ends, would be ideal for Appalachia, as it is a stark break from the current development grants and corrupt useless development commissions. There's not much of a dichotomy between the environment and jobs, just between coal and fracking jobs and the environment. And having a plan in place that isn't "here's some retraining money for jobs that will never be there, good luck suckers" is good.

 

The problem is you are going against what actually is and what can be. Not just in Appalachia but in poor communities in general, there's generations of being left behind and ignored so overcoming that barrier is a huge undertaking.

[GeneticBlueprint]

Hmmm. I'm actually quite sympathetic to this view. At times. I mean I live in the reddest of red states so I'm surrounded by Trump supporters. I can't say that they themselves make my life more miserable or hard.

 

But any sympathy I might have had for these people goes out the window when I hear members of my own family buying into QAnon bullshit. Or when they start buying into Fox News talking points and say that maybe it will be better if Trump just wins because we don't want to end up socialist. This last one courtesy of my MIL, who is uninsured and is battling cancer. I guess she doesn't have to worry because my wife is doing all the work to find charitable sources of income to pay her medical bills while what that doesn't cover falls to me.

 

They should fucking know better because I have spent years, years, correcting these false notions. My extended family isn't too different from the rest of America. You just can't reach some people no matter how hard you try. Stop putting effort into it and focus your energy where it can actually matter.

[skillzdadirecta]

On 11/2/2020 at 3:22 AM, Fizzzzle said:

They are people who have real problems. You don't get to decide their problems don't matter. Instead of making them feel victimized and villainized (and thus galvanizing their KKK bullshit), let them know that you actually give a shit about their problems. Give them a solution. Give them a reason to hope. Democrats haven't done that. Republicans run on a platform of "IMAGINE HOW WORSE IT WOULD BE UNDER BIDEN." Give them a "here's what we could do for you" platform and the Republicans would crumble. Democrats just haven't gotten the balls to go full on single payer health and other shit because they think it will lose them too many purple states.

I don't know how old you are but most of rural America was Democrat until the late 60's. You know what flipped them to Republicanism? THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT. Look up "The Southern Strategy" and then come back. Racism was a KEY factor in flipping white rural voters. Rich Whites have exploited Poor Whites since this Country's founding by treating them slightly better than Blacks, Native Americans, Hispanics and even other "White" immigrants like The Irish and Italians by telling them that THESE groups are responsible for their lot in life and they fall for it EVERYTIME. How else could a rich northern elitist reality TV star EVER appeal to groups of people that he would never be cuaght dead hanging around. He's playing by the old playbook.

 

White working classs Americans ROUTINELY vote against theit own interests because as long as you appeal to their sense of grieviance and victimhood that will "Trump" any other concern. Explain to me how working class, rank and file union workers could EVER support a Republican President... that makes absolutely no sense. It would almost be like a gay person voting for a hardcore evangelical expecting that candidate to have their best interests at heart.

[Bloodporne]

13 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I don't know how old you are but most of rural America was Democrat until the late 60's. You know what flipped them to Republicanism? THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT. Look up "The Southern Strategy" and then come back. Racism was a KEY factor in flipping white rural voters. Rich Whites have exploited Poor Whites since this Country's founding by treating them slightly better than Blacks, Native Americans, Hispanics and even other "White" immigrants like The Irish and Italians by telling them that THESE groups are responsible for their lot in life and they fall for it EVERYTIME. How else could a rich northern elitist reality TV star EVER appeal to groups of people that he would never be cuaght dead hanging around. He's playing by the old playbook.

 

White working classs Americans ROUTINELY vote against theit own interests because as long as you appeal to their since of grieviance and victimhood that will "Trump" any other concern. Explain to me how working class, rank and file union workers could EVER support a Republican President... that makes absolutely no sense. It would almost be like a gay person voting for a hardcore evangelical expecting that candidate to have their best interests at heart.

Being in construction, this hits the nail on the head and, for the life of me, I don't understand it whenever I've engaged in this debate with fellow union carpenters. How the fuck any of them could ever even vaguely believe someone like Donald Trump would even wipe his diamond-studded ass with their issues, let alone understand any of it, is mindboggling to me. He is proof that is takes quite literally not even a minimum effort acting job pretending you're one of the working class boys and that's incredibly sad to me considering I really like some guys I've had this conversation with. Shit is so twisted and turned around, they somehow believe someone like Donald Trump is pro-union, pro-working class, pro-family and what not and all it took, and continues to take, is the absolute worst acting job I've seen a politican pull. "We'll uhhh...do....BIG things...BIG GREAT things.......?" YAAAYYYY, what!?

[Bloodporne]

And in case you guys want a sad, ironic anecdote, my mother received her citizenship in April this year after over twenty years here. It's made her life fucking miserable. She's immediately voting for Trump this year because 'she made it' and now hates everyone else because she's apparently so bitter. So yeah, there really is NO limit to how illogical, absurd and nonsensical this bizarre rhetoric goes. There is no saving or correcting this mindset unfortunately in my experience and again, it's sad and hard to do. 

[Firewithin]

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

I long ago moved from "demonization" to "indifference"

[skillzdadirecta]

54 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

Being in construction, this hits the nail on the head and, for the life of me, I don't understand it whenever I've engaged in this debate with fellow union carpenters. How the fuck any of them could ever even vaguely believe someone like Donald Trump would even wipe his diamond-studded ass with their issues, let alone understand any of it, is mindboggling to me. He is proof that is takes quite literally not even a minimum effort acting job pretending you're one of the working class boys and that's incredibly sad to me considering I really like some guys I've had this conversation with. Shit is so twisted and turned around, they somehow believe someone like Donald Trump is pro-union, pro-working class, pro-family and what not and all it took, and continues to take, is the absolute worst acting job I've seen a politican pull. "We'll uhhh...do....BIG things...BIG GREAT things.......?" YAAAYYYY, what!?

Donald Trump spent the 80's and 90's ripping off Contractors in the construction industry in the tri-state area. He was on reecord saying he would rather sue you than pay you. The Apprentice sold him to middle America and THAT is who they voted for. The rest is history... most Trump supporters have NO IDEA who he really is and what he's about.

 

40 minutes ago, Emperor Diocletian II said:

I long ago moved from "demonization" to "indifference"

Eventually that's where the country will move to as well... Allah willing.

[Chadatog]

Why does this thread remind me of the "leave Brittany alone" youtube video.

[Bloodporne]

13 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Donald Trump spent the 80's and 90's ripping off Contractors in the construction industry in the tri-state area. He was on reecord saying he would rather sue you than pay you. The Apprentice sold him to middle America and THAT is who they voted for. The rest is history... most Trump supporters have NO IDEA who he really is and what he's about.

I mean, I don't consider myself some fucking rocket scientist nor a political person to begin with yet even I moved from amused and bewildered indifference to "oh...oh boy..." rather quickly after his election. That's what makes it so hard for me to understand how people keep buying what this trashy used car salesman is selling. 

[ort]

9 hours ago, Fizzzzle said:

Their votes matter just as much as yours.

 

Thanks to the electoral college their votes actually matter more.

 

I'm also going to push back on the idea that someone like Obama ignored them. Did he? Or do they just feel like he did? How is Trump.actually doing anything more than Obama did for rural voters? He isn't, he's just willing to act like a total clown to amuse them. That's not even close to the same thing as paying attention to them.

 

The only reason Trump pays attention to them anyway is because they are the only one's who take him seriously. Trump hates these people. Do you think Trump has ever hung out with real country folks for even a single day of his life? He's more removed from that lifestyle than any president I've know in my lifetime. It's all an act and anyone who falls for it is a fucking idiot... including all of those rural voters. No need to be nice anymore. Let's stop sugar coating it.

[GeneticBlueprint]

Just now, ort said:

 

Thanks to the electoral college their votes actually matter more.

 

I'm also going to push back on the idea that someone like Obama ignored them. Did he? Or do they just feel like he did? How is Trump.actually doing anything more than Obama did for rural voters? He isn't, he's just willing to act like a total clown to amuse them.

 

Obama tried to get some watered down version of health coverage to them. Trump is actively taking that away.

[BloodyHell]

3 hours ago, sexy_shapiro said:

You know these are adults you’re talking about, right? They are old enough to make their own decisions and to suffer the consequences from their actions. You may think you’re standing up for them, but you’re talking about them in a way that removes their agency and looks down on them. 

Sure. And I agree. But when people say the same about homeless, or addicts, or criminals, they are unfeeling scum. I don’t have any solution, but I can tell you we are just as guilty of shaming others, poisoning public discourse, and causing division. America has never had such a deep idealogical divide, and the internet and SM gives us a 24hour, 365 day a year battleground to fight on.
 

Everyone has been pushed further right or left from anger at the other side. It’s constant. Attack after attack, name calling, biased reporting, attacks on the press. At this point, Trump is just a figurehead for one side of the divide, stupidly held up as some kind of general. Its weird. The trump supporters I know are no longer the people I knew before 2016. They’vd turned into angry caricatures and live in echo chambers. And they are very, very heavily armed. And they feel we’re destroying America just the same as we feel they are. Perception is everything and these fools believe they are the heroes of the story. The fighting and hating them doesn’t work. I don’t know what does. Shut off all social media?

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

They deserve healthcare and good, well paying jobs just the same as everyone else. 

 

We just have to run roughshod over them politically in order to make that happen.

[skillzdadirecta]

 

[skillzdadirecta]

22 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

Sure. And I agree. But when people say the same about homeless, or addicts, or criminals, they are unfeeling scum. I don’t have any solution, but I can tell you we are just as guilty of shaming others, poisoning public discourse, and causing division. America has never had such a deep idealogical divide, and the internet and SM gives us a 24hour, 365 day a year battleground to fight on.
 

Everyone has been pushed further right or left from anger at the other side. It’s constant. Attack after attack, name calling, biased reporting, attacks on the press. At this point, Trump is just a figurehead for one side of the divide, stupidly held up as some kind of general. Its weird. The trump supporters I know are no longer the people I knew before 2016. They’vd turned into angry caricatures and live in echo chambers. And they are very, very heavily armed. And they feel we’re destroying America just the same as we feel they are. Perception is everything and these fools believe they are the heroes of the story. The fighting and hating them doesn’t work. I don’t know what does. Shut off all social media?

Huh?! You never heard of THE-CIVIL-WAR???

[BloodyHell]

1 minute ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Huh?! You never heard of THE-CIVIL-WAR???

Ok, I meant in my life

[SuperSpreader]

Fuck them. I don't have to do anything, they've demonized themselves. I'm not the one asking them to use nazi symbolisms. 

[Fizzzzle]

2 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I don't know how old you are but most of rural America was Democrat until the late 60's. You know what flipped them to Republicanism? THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT. Look up "The Southern Strategy" and then come back. Racism was a KEY factor in flipping white rural voters. Rich Whites have exploited Poor Whites since this Country's founding by treating them slightly better than Blacks, Native Americans, Hispanics and even other "White" immigrants like The Irish and Italians by telling them that THESE groups are responsible for their lot in life and they fall for it EVERYTIME. How else could a rich northern elitist reality TV star EVER appeal to groups of people that he would never be cuaght dead hanging around. He's playing by the old playbook.

 

White working classs Americans ROUTINELY vote against theit own interests because as long as you appeal to their since of grieviance and victimhood that will "Trump" any other concern. Explain to me how working class, rank and file union workers could EVER support a Republican President... that makes absolutely no sense. It would almost be like a gay person voting for a hardcore evangelical expecting that candidate to have their best interests at heart.

I'm very well aware of all of that, that was kind of my point.

 

"You think America sucks now? Imagine how gay and Mexican it will be if the Democrats win!"

[johnny]

Talking to republicans eventually devolves into this because they don’t listen.

 

 

ive been called stupid because I want healthcare for everybody.

[SaysWho?]

That's the thing: I get talked down to a lot when I dismantle their silly conspiracy theories or try to show them where their anger could be directed (ex: a former friend of mine was all angry the NFL did nothing to celebrate first responders in early September but unfriended me after I told her she should be made at Trump, who was being accused by FDNY of stealing money from that fund, and Giuliani, who lied about the air quality there which has led to so many of them suffering). First she laughs that I must have meant to reply to someone else. Then it's "please.... GO AWAY"

 

She used to be my barber 20 years ago. Eventually I realized she was an idiot. Sucks, but the beat goes on. It'd be nice if I weren't talked down to. THEN maybe I'd consider contemplating the notion of considering voting Republican.

[Greatoneshere]

5 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

Doesn't this work both ways?

 

Telling people that they're radical, unpatriotic, un-American, care more about terrorists, care more about murderers, are dumber (as Trump said when he said he led in places that were more intelligent), idiotically not knowing what the word 'triggered' means and demeaning those in uniform or those with PTSD who come back and really do need trigger warnings, a fucking bitch, wusses if they were masks, that they're ready to die from COVID to restart the economy, implying men are really little girls for being progressive (which I always find funny coming from those who will melt down if a news story comes out quoting something Trump said because everything Trump says makes him look bad), that their cities suck, that small town America is real America, that voting for Trump means you love this country, that being gay is somehow wrong or weird, that a black man with a job is "one of the good ones," aren't great ways to get people to hear your viewpoints.

 

That's probably why people here are tired of being told to be nicer. Apparently, Republicans can win by demonizing over half the country. Many here have been demonized all their lives by many people with whom they must express sympathy and understanding.

 

Thank you - I feel like I'm yelling into the void sometimes. I have tried every method to talk to these people and they actively don't want my help. I want universal health care, college for all, etc. etc. to help them not myself, and they are actively resisting it. I am tired. These are old adults and I'm the young one yet I feel like the adult in the room. It's nuts.

 

4 hours ago, sexy_shapiro said:

You know these are adults you’re talking about, right? They are old enough to make their own decisions and to suffer the consequences from their actions. You may think you’re standing up for them, but you’re talking about them in a way that removes their agency and looks down on them.

 

This, thank you.

 

2 hours ago, Bloodporne said:

And in case you guys want a sad, ironic anecdote, my mother received her citizenship in April this year after over twenty years here. It's made her life fucking miserable. She's immediately voting for Trump this year because 'she made it' and now hates everyone else because she's apparently so bitter. So yeah, there really is NO limit to how illogical, absurd and nonsensical this bizarre rhetoric goes. There is no saving or correcting this mindset unfortunately in my experience and again, it's sad and hard to do. 

 

I just . . . Goddamnit.

 

1 hour ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

They deserve healthcare and good, well paying jobs just the same as everyone else. 

 

We just have to run roughshod over them politically in order to make that happen.

 

This x1000. We're trying to help them!

 

 

[Greatoneshere]

19 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

That's the thing: I get talked down to a lot when I dismantle their silly conspiracy theories or try to show them where their anger could be directed (ex: a former friend of mine was all angry the NFL did nothing to celebrate first responders in early September but unfriended me after I told her she should be made at Trump, who was being accused by FDNY of stealing money from that fund, and Giuliani, who lied about the air quality there which has led to so many of them suffering). First she laughs that I must have meant to reply to someone else. Then it's "please.... GO AWAY"

 

She used to be my barber 20 years ago. Eventually I realized she was an idiot. Sucks, but the beat goes on. It'd be nice if I weren't talked down to. THEN maybe I'd consider contemplating the notion of considering voting Republican.

 

Yes, this. I can't keep getting talked down to when I know I know better. Over and over and over again. Let's not forget many white Evangelicals want to initiate war and death in the middle east intentionally. Hate culture. Cruelty is the point.

 

But sure, sure, let's have sympathy for them. Politically, they are the enemy, and we must beat them into oblivion.

[Fizzzzle]

Maybe we should have a political candidate who wants healthcare for all, free education, and also hates gays and fetuses. Gaslight the religious base into being liberals before they know what hit them.

[Chollowa]

It's really tough to have sympathy for the party that has taken to calling their opposition "Demoncrat," "Demonrats", etc. I understand they're just taking their marching orders from right-wing media and that the hosts of those programs sometimes use the same language (Mark Levin, Michael Savage), but it's hard to find common ground when they consistently dehumanize any opposition. I say this as someone that was a registered Republican as recently as a 5 years ago.  

[johnny]

14 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

Maybe we should have a political candidate who wants healthcare for all, free education, and also hates gays and fetuses. Gaslight the religious base into being liberals before they know what hit them.

[Keyser_Soze]

44 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

She used to be my barber 20 years ago. Eventually I realized she was an idiot. Sucks, but the beat goes on. It'd be nice if I weren't talked down to. THEN maybe I'd consider contemplating the notion of considering voting Republican.

 

I'm smart but I've only cut my own hair so unsure of my skills. I can be your new barber!

[ort]

They should stop acting like fucking demons if they don't want to be demonized. If they want to have a civilized conversation, I'm all for that.

 

But 90% of these people are fucking stupid. They're just stupid fucking people.

 

It's no coincidence that 90% of Trump supporters I know are all complete and total nitwit morons. It really is true. They are quite dumb. You would have to be to fall for his bullshit.

 

I can't even begin to understand how someone can be that fucking dumb, but here we are.

 

Fuck Trump supporters. They started it. I'll never stop being immediately hostile toward anyone who ever stood by that man. FUCK THEM ALL.

 

They want a god damned culture war they can fucking have it. FUCK THEM.

[Greatoneshere]

Trump supporters and their stance on Covid-19 and masks is literally killing people, lest we forget.

 

But sure, sure, sympathy for the pro-Typhoid Mary group.

[Guest]

I don't think it is necessarily demonizing, some times it is just holding up a mirror. What is difficult for me to reconcile is the individual behavior vs the group behavior. There is often a major disconnect there and I don't understand how that is.

[Greatoneshere]

Trump supporters and their stance on ripping families apart, letting 6 children die in cages, unable to unite 545 children with their parents, and doing nonconsensual, illegal historectimies on migrant women in cages is literally destroying lives.

 

But sure, sure, sympathy for the pro-destroy families and take away womens' rights and kill kids group. 

 

Edit: I could literally do this all day.

[johnny]

You can calmly talk to a lot of these people about why people deserve to be treated with dignity and they’ll throw it back in your face and complain about socialism and communism. And you’re like okay what about cutting defense spending and they flip out because apparently we have to be prepared for a USA-China war that the Bible prophesied. 
 

they don’t care at all about people that aren’t them unless it’s in a woman’s uterus.