Stop demonizing Trump supporters.

[Fizzzzle]

I don't know if you know this, but I come from a pretty white trash family. I may have grown up in Portland, but my mom's side of the family (my dad was an orphan, so that's a different story) comes from Ohio and West Virginia. It's easy to demonize them. Do you know what Trump does that the Democrats haven't done in years? Fucking acknowledge they exist. These are people that have been told that their way of life is fucked for the last couple decades, and Obama was basically like "fuck you guys, this just is what it is."

 

Give the rural midwest an actual fucking plan for job growth and they will flock to the Democrats, I guarantee you. Keep pretending that everything is fine and the Republicans will keep winning like Bernie beat Hillary in 2016.

 

Do you know why they vote for Trump? It's because Trump acknowledges their existence. Hillary called them "deplorables." They're not deplorables, you fucking shrew, they're people in desperate times who are trying to figure out how to pay rent.

[Jason]

3 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

Hillary called them "deplorables." They're not deplorables, you fucking shrew, they're people in desperate times who are trying to figure out how to pay rent.

 

She should have known better than to toss up that soundbite, but jfc was that an out of context soundbite.

[Jason]

I know a dude who is definitely not hard-up economically. Dude just wanted to fucking whine to me about my using the word "deplorable". Dude also managed to get himself globally banned from the Diplomacy hobby which is a real fucking feat in and of itself so fuck him.

[CastlevaniaNut18]

They don’t do themselves any favors with their actions. My own family largely supports Trump and it’s mostly because they love his racism, think he’ll protect their guns, and appoint anti-abortion and anti-LGBT judges. 
 

That’s pretty fuckin’ deplorable, IMO. 

[Fizzzzle]

Just now, Jason said:

 

She should have known better than to toss up that soundbite, but jfc was that an out of context soundbite.

The point is Republicans are trying to play your emotions. YoU ThInK ThIS iS BaAd? IMAGINE HOW MUCH WORSE IT WOULD BE!!!!"

Redneck americans absolutely have real concerns. They are absolutely ignored by the general elections.

 

I guess I could say it like this... Redneck americans are being gaslit by things like abortion and the death penalty to get them to vote against their own interest on everything else.  I suppose my point is that these are still people who are not being heard by the government, and they deserve to be heard.

 

I kind of contradicted myself there. Ultimately rednecks are people, too. Their views don't matter less.

[Jason]

1 minute ago, Fizzzzle said:

Their views don't matter less.

 

hard disagree

[Fizzzzle]

Populism finds a base in ignorance and bad faith. Populism leads to fascism.

 

We need to stop treating our people that feel disenfranchised like they're stupid hillbillies. I can tell you that there are a lot of rural americans who feel like "at least Trump is looking out for them" (even though he's not).

[Fizzzzle]

2 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

hard disagree

Their votes matter just as much as yours.

[Jason]

2 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

Their votes matter just as much as yours.

 

A solid argument for republicanism.

[Fizzzzle]

Just now, Jason said:

 

A solid argument for republicanism.

I mean, it's not wrong, and I would never argue that "LiB ElItEs GeT MoRe VoTeS!"

 

You have one vote, they have one vote. Do you want to spend time putting them down or trying to educate them about why your ideas are better.

[CastlevaniaNut18]

These people are hopeless. I spent years trying to educate my family. They revel in their ignorance. Religion dominates them. 

[Jason]

12 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

Do you want to spend time putting them down or trying to educate them about why your ideas are better.

 

They refuse to be educated.

[Fizzzzle]

Try to convince them that appealing to their views on religion is just gaslighting them to ignore all of the views that make their lives worse.

 

Just don't demonize them. They are people. Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden have never given a shit about rednecks. If they started giving speeches about how they would give medicare to their meemaw, they would have won every election in this century. Poor white people feel ignored, and it's because they are.

[Greatoneshere]

Apparently @Fizzzzle is a sweet summer child. As if they aren't all bad faith debaters. Hilarious. We have 5 years of evidence . . . 

 

Oh my God. "Gaslight this". "tip toe around that".

 

Cruelty is the point my man. Fuck them. I had your viewpoint 3 years ago. It's done. The verdict is in. Stop demonizing them? They demonize themsellves. Everyone here already knows running a progressive, sincere populist would be very interesting. It's not happening. Maybe AOC in 2024. until then, stop creating a false equivalence.

 

The Cruelty Is the Point - The Atlantic

WWW.THEATLANTIC.COM

---

Trump and his supporters find community by rejoicing in the suffering of those they hate and fear.

 

[Fizzzzle]

you're talking about people who have spent Bush-Obama having no one even acknowledging they exist. These people swing elections, and they fucking matter.

 

That's why I talk about actually giving a progressive plan to get these people to be motivated. Democrats just being like "yeah we're not republicans" isn't enough. Give these people something to hope for, an actual plan that they can latch onto, and you'll create a generation of liberal rednecks. Pretend they don't exist and they'll prop up the Republican minority simply from racism.

[Greatoneshere]

1 minute ago, Fizzzzle said:

you're talking about people who have spent Bush-Obama having no one even acknowledging they exist. These people swing elections, and they fucking matter.

 

That's why I talk about actually giving a progressive plan to get these people to be motivated. Democrats just being like "yeah we're not republicans" isn't enough. Give these people something to hope for, an actual plan that they can latch onto, and you'll create a generation of liberal rednecks. Pretend they don't exist and they'll prop up the Republican minority simply from racism.

 

This doesn't make sense. As I said most here want a sincere, progressive populist. But to suggest we need to respect deplorables in that process just sounds contrarian. Fuck them. They want to cut off their nose to spite their face. Courting this pathetic 30% of fascistic idiots is a waste of time.

[Fizzzzle]

They are people who have real problems. You don't get to decide their problems don't matter. Instead of making them feel victimized and villainized (and thus galvanizing their KKK bullshit), let them know that you actually give a shit about their problems. Give them a solution. Give them a reason to hope. Democrats haven't done that. Republicans run on a platform of "IMAGINE HOW WORSE IT WOULD BE UNDER BIDEN." Give them a "here's what we could do for you" platform and the Republicans would crumble. Democrats just haven't gotten the balls to go full on single payer health and other shit because they think it will lose them too many purple states.

[Greatoneshere]

5 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

They are people who have real problems. You don't get to decide their problems don't matter. Instead of making them feel victimized and villainized (and thus galvanizing their KKK bullshit), let them know that you actually give a shit about their problems. Give them a solution. Give them a reason to hope. Democrats haven't done that. Republicans run on a platform of "IMAGINE HOW WORSE IT WOULD BE UNDER BIDEN." Give them a "here's what we could do for you" platform and the Republicans would crumble. Democrats just haven't gotten the balls to go full on single payer health and other shit because they think it will lose them too many purple states.

 

I live in PA. I run into these kinds of people all the time. I disagree completely. There is no reasoning with them. In 5 years I have spent every possible angle and they reject every single one. I'm working so hard whereas they actively resist knowledge and logic. So yes, I do get to fucking decide. They burned my magnanimity. I have none left. 

 

Fuck them. Let them burn. 

[Fizzzzle]

It's sad to hear that. No one is above redemption.

[Greatoneshere]

4 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

It's sad to hear that. No one is above redemption.

 

Disagree hard. You give up your right to participate when you actively vote against the common good because you believe in hate culture. "Cruelty is the point". We're fighting a war. Wake up bru. Ignorance is negligence, and negligence is group harm.

 

They should be thankful we indulge them by fighting for progressive policies as hard as we can. They don't even want it, yet we help them, yet you beg for us to cowtow further?

 

I'm from Philly bru, GTFO.

 

Edit: They decided their problems don't matter when they re-vote for a president that is against their self-interest. My sympathy is done. 

[Fizzzzle]

Just now, Greatoneshere said:

 

Disagree hard. You give up your right to participate when you actively vote against the common good because you believe in hate culture. "Cruelty is the point". We're fighting a war. Wake up bru.

Again, I disagree. I come from white trash, they basically feel like the political establishment has told them to fuck off (this was basically how Jim Crow started, kinda like "yeah you know your life sucks but at least you're better than black people"), so there's this opinion that they're ignored. Donald Trump at least acknowledges they exist. I'm not saying that it's right, but the lower class white people in this country have this idea that they're outcasts, and they tend to sway elections.

[Keyser_Soze]

A democratic president may not mention them but will help them.

A republican president will mention them, exploit them for their vote and not help them.

[Fizzzzle]

Just now, Keyser_Soze said:

A democratic president may not mention them but will help them.

A republican president will mention them, exploit them for their vote and not help them.

Fuckin' A, you spelled it out better than I could.

[Greatoneshere]

3 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

Again, I disagree. I come from white trash, they basically feel like the political establishment has told them to fuck off (this was basically how Jim Crow started, kinda like "yeah you know your life sucks but at least you're better than black people"), so there's this opinion that they're ignored. Donald Trump at least acknowledges they exist. I'm not saying that it's right, but the lower class white people in this country have this idea that they're outcasts, and they tend to sway elections.

 

I don't care. They sway elections? Minimize them. They feel ostracized? Ostracize them further. Bully hate into the ground. I'm done with these fucks. You're indulgence feels like the naivete of 2015. I learned this lesson. 

 

I appreciate the intellectual indulgence, but you are leagues behind where this war is. I do not care about the group you want to empower. I want to disempower them into oblivion. They feel ignored?

 

GOOD.

 

They are currently championing voter fraud. I. DO. NOT. CARE. ABOUT. THIS. GROUP. And neither should you. The left's indulgence of the right is its weakest aspect.

[Greatoneshere]

2 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

A democratic president may not mention them but will help them.

A republican president will mention them, exploit them for their vote and not help them.

 

1 minute ago, Fizzzzle said:

Fuckin' A, you spelled it out better than I could.

 

Glad we all understand the group isn't worth considering except in an incidental way.

[Fizzzzle]

Just now, Greatoneshere said:

 

I don't care. They sway elections? Minimize them. They feel ostracized? Ostarcize them further. Bully hate into the ground. I'm done with these fucks. You're indulgence feels like the naivete of 2015. I learned this lesson. 

 

I appreciate the intellectual indulgence, but you are leagues behind where this war is. I do not care about the group you want to empower. I want to disempower them into oblivion. They feel ignored?

 

GOOD.

I kind of feel like your mindset is what resulted in germany having Hitler.

 

Or maybe it was mine. Who knows.

[Fizzzzle]

1 minute ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

 

Glad we all understand the group isn't worth considering except in an incidental way.

I just don't believe that anyone is worthless. If someone has a toxic opinion, it's a symptom of a greater disease that we don't treat by cutting them off. We should understand why they feel that way and what we can do to help it.

[Greatoneshere]

Just now, Fizzzzle said:

I kind of feel like your mindset is what resulted in germany having Hitler.

 

Or maybe it was mine. Who knows.

 

History has nothing to do with it. The group you want to empower has already chosen anti-masks and pro-Trump as a stance. Why should I feel the need to work with this group when, at every turn, they thumb their nose at me? 

 

Or, you know, shoot me (Michigan) or run me over (Viriginia). You're argument feels incredibly disingenuous bru.

[Greatoneshere]

Just now, Fizzzzle said:

I just don't believe that anyone is worthless. If someone has a toxic opinion, it's a symptom of a greater disease that we don't treat by cutting them off. We should understand why they feel that way and what we can do to help it.

 

People are worthless when they hinder the larger group from helping everyone, including said group. You have to realize someone against everyone's interests, their own included, is a negligent, ignorant participant in our demise.

[Fizzzzle]

sure can recognize someone as that, but I can also try to convince them to my way of thinking. Most people are at least somewhat convertible if you come at them from the right angle. My girlfriend was a 9/11 truther when I met her, not kidding. Turns out she's a wonderful person outside of that, but the point is you can reason with people if you're just patient. If you just tell everyone they're a basket of deplorables, they tend to not listen to what you have to say.

 

The vast majority of Trump supporters are real people who have real problems that Biden doesn't acknowledge. Bernie does.

[Greatoneshere]

8 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

The vast majority of Trump supporters are real people who have real problems that Biden doesn't acknowledge. Bernie does.

 

Biden is making a vast mistake. I'm glad he's doing it to win the election, but enabling these people or trying to "work with Repblicans" is the most futile thing I can imagine. These Trump voters are done. We will shame them into history. Or, at least, that's what I want. Anecdotal evidence is a fallacy. In general, in over 5 years, they have proven what they deserve.

 

Let them burn.

 

Again, for some reason, they can run amok but I have to bend over backwards to cowtow to their stupidity and ignorance? Glad they get to do such an imposition. Interesting I don't get the same indulgence.

[Greatoneshere]

I'm so glad THIS is the debate we're having. Oh yes, because, this is the issue with Trump and his supporters. They get to be assholes and I'm supposed to have some infinite well of magnanimity. 

[SaysWho?]

Doesn't this work both ways?

 

Telling people that they're radical, unpatriotic, un-American, care more about terrorists, care more about murderers, are dumber (as Trump said when he said he led in places that were more intelligent), idiotically not knowing what the word 'triggered' means and demeaning those in uniform or those with PTSD who come back and really do need trigger warnings, a fucking bitch, wusses if they were masks, that they're ready to die from COVID to restart the economy, implying men are really little girls for being progressive (which I always find funny coming from those who will melt down if a news story comes out quoting something Trump said because everything Trump says makes him look bad), that their cities suck, that small town America is real America, that voting for Trump means you love this country, that being gay is somehow wrong or weird, that a black man with a job is "one of the good ones," aren't great ways to get people to hear your viewpoints.

 

That's probably why people here are tired of being told to be nicer. Apparently, Republicans can win by demonizing over half the country. Many here have been demonized all their lives by many people with whom they must express sympathy and understanding.

[TheLeon]

I understand why pissed off, forgotten people in flyover country voted for him the first time. The people still on board? I can’t take them seriously.

[sexy_shapiro]

You know these are adults you’re talking about, right? They are old enough to make their own decisions and to suffer the consequences from their actions. You may think you’re standing up for them, but you’re talking about them in a way that removes their agency and looks down on them.