Stop demonizing Trump supporters.

[ThreePi]

I gave them a pass in 2016, but after this past four years I say fuck 'em. They think there economic woes are a result of immigrants, minorities, welfare. If you can't see the ever-increasing wealth and income gap is the main cause for economic strife, then you're hopeless. People can be paid a fair, livable wage but the greed at the top is the barrier. 

[run32.dll]

Of course you're never going to replace lumpenproles' identity politics with other identity politics. They have been increasingly left to die by lack of healthcare, malnutrition, and deaths of despair. The culture war and lashing back at the "coastal elites" is all they have. The Democrat establishment and Joe Biden have nothing material to offer them. Joe Biden says it himself, just vote to reflect your values and nothing would fundamentally change. The focus should be on addressing people's material needs rather than playing capital's games that prevent class consciousness.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

I don’t care how hard their life is. Nazi and Nazi supporters deserve to be demonized. The Republican Party has been a hate group for a long time, and they’re just digging in deeper and deeper with Donald. So fuck him and ALL his supporters. 

[Xbob42]

No, and also fuck you.

[run32.dll]

3 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

I don’t care how hard their life is. Nazi and Nazi supporters deserve to be demonized. The Republican Party has been a hate group for a long time, and they’re just digging in deeper and deeper with Donald. So fuck him and ALL his supporters. 

The Democrats also hate the poor and have no problems with killing them both directly and indirectly. They just play another side of the culture war and have better sold more people with post-secondary education on which poor people deserve to be hated. Mid-Western and Appalachian whites with little to no wealth are a bunch of uneducated, lazy, drug addicted, and violent people that deserve our ire, right? Same exact shit Republicans say about poor people that are unlikely to vote for them.

[Uaarkson]

3 minutes ago, run32.dll said:

Mid-Western and Appalachian whites with little to no wealth are a bunch of uneducated, lazy, drug addicted, and violent people that deserve our ire, right?

 

Precisely!

[run32.dll]

4 minutes ago, Uaarkson said:

 

Precisely!

Real wages have been stagnant since the 70s while housing, education, and healthcare costs have all sky rocketed far beyond inflation but pull yourself up by your bootstraps, cracker. Why don't these hicks with no credit and an awful public education system that don't live within 100 miles of a college and live in a town where the only employers are 7/11 and the liquor store just head on down to the university and learn to code?

[Uaarkson]

Hey, I said they draw my ire. I didn't say politicians shouldn't be trying to court them. My honest opinion is this: lead poisoning is just as much of a problem in rural white America as it is in urban black America.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

3 minutes ago, run32.dll said:

Real wages have been stagnant since the 70s while housing, education, and healthcare costs have all sky rocketed far beyond inflation but pull yourself up by your bootstraps, cracker. Why don't these hicks with no credit and an awful public education system that don't live within 100 miles of a college and live in a town where the only employers are 7/11 and the liquor store just head on down to the university and learn to code?

Even outside of wages, the good jobs where you had a union and a good wage and pension are either going or gone. I saw it in my hometown in just the past 4 years! Within one year 700+ (in a county of 25k people total) jobs were gone when the two coal power plants just outside of town reached the end of their useful lifespan. There should be an answer for these people other than start commuting two hours to Cincinnati and hope you can make half the wage you previously had.

[PaladinSolo]

Just now, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Even outside of wages, the good jobs where you had a union and a good wage and pension are either going or gone. I saw it in my hometown in just the past 4 years! Within one year 700+ (in a county of 25k people total) jobs were gone when the two coal power plants just outside of town reached the end of their useful lifespan. There should be an answer for these people other than start commuting two hours to Cincinnati and hope you can make half the wage you previously had.

Shit reminds me when Clinton said Coal was done for and wanted to replace the jobs they were going to lose with green energy and they just heard "SHE HATES COAL!!!!" voted for Trump lost the jobs and were fucked.

[CitizenVectron]

2 hours ago, sblfilms said:

I don't think it is necessarily demonizing, some times it is just holding up a mirror. What is difficult for me to reconcile is the individual behavior vs the group behavior. There is often a major disconnect there and I don't understand how that is.

 

It's the classic Men In Black quote: "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it."

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

1 minute ago, PaladinSolo said:

Shit reminds me when Clinton said Coal was done for and wanted to replace the jobs they were going to lose with green energy and they just heard "SHE HATES COAL!!!!" voted for Trump lost the jobs and were fucked.

These people even made a personal appeal to trump (lol) that made it on CNN to try and save the plants. Folks, he's just using you!

 

[Captain Pickle]

I’ve given up on them back when Bush won!

[Xbob42]

21 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Even outside of wages, the good jobs where you had a union and a good wage and pension are either going or gone. I saw it in my hometown in just the past 4 years! Within one year 700+ (in a county of 25k people total) jobs were gone when the two coal power plants just outside of town reached the end of their useful lifespan. There should be an answer for these people other than start commuting two hours to Cincinnati and hope you can make half the wage you previously had.

Wages are stagnating for the entire nation. Unions are eroding for the entire nation. It's not just in little hometowns in the Midwest. It's everywhere. It's almost like we as a society worship money to the point where being rich means you're both intelligent and morally superior, and thus we must vote for rich people, or those who advocate for rich, and against the poor. The phrase "the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires" is not new. Our country was built to worship money.

 

That said, the idea that the Midwest is full of these sad little desperate people who are just looking for a President who will acknowledge them is the most sniveling, servile, pathetic shit I have ever read. But I know it's true. When I lived in the Midwest, there were towns or cities that would be 100% into a certain band or actor, because "they actually stopped here for a tour," or whatever. They're so desperate to not be ignored that they're ready to idolize anyone who stops by. That's fucking pathetic.

 

These are not cute little children hoping for a lucky break, they're full grown fucking adults hoping that a President will come along that can snap their fingers and magically produce a bustling industry in the Midwest. They live in a fantasy land where they're not just eternally oppressed victims, but they're literally waiting for a knight in shining armor to come and bring back the coal industry or what the fuck ever they're on about now.

It's NOT GOING TO FUCKING HAPPEN. That isn't how leaders work. People make jobs, demand makes jobs. SKILLS make jobs. A President might be able to give a little nudge here or there but as we've seen with literally every President, jobs don't just pop up because you want them to. The fact that these full-grown adults still can't understand that is abhorrent to me. And make no mistake, we saw similar bullshit with people like Obama, but at least that was for a broader, more vague "hope," about gaining victories for societal issues leaders can actually help with to some extent, like rights for certain groups. It wasn't much, but at least no one lost their fucking minds and tried to murder people (or imply that they're ready to murder people at the polls) when his time in office was up, or might have been up.
 

We're talking about an area of the country that unironically talks about pulling yourself up by your bootstraps. That's not some meme, that's a point of pride. They talk about fuck your feelings, about how you shouldn't ask for handouts, all while waiting for a goddamn fucking leprechaun to pop up with a pot of gold and solve all their fucking problems. I'm so sick of the relentless hypocrisy (and no, the hypocrisy isn't equal just because it exists on "both sides," Republicans seem to exist in a state that is constantly at odds with itself on a fundamental level) and the endless callous bullshit, all while being told I should feel sorry for these sad sacks of shit who are too goddamn stupid to know what's actually in their best interest.

 

So you can take your struggling family who think Trump is a magic man who can cast a spell to bring back jobs, and you can shove it up your fucking ass. People that stupid deserve whatever comes their way.

[legend]

I am deeply skeptical of your core thesis here. In 2016, I can give some people a pass for simply not having time to really look into who Trump was and just voting R, while a lot of dems stupidly didn't vote because they didn't like Clinton.

 

And I still do give some of those people a pass, because there are a number of people who have come out with deep regrets and are now voting for Biden. How many? I don't know, but clearly some people just didn't know. They get a pass.

 

If you *still* don't know, I have no fucking idea how to reach you. Trump is the most obvious con man I've ever seen. He makes obvious movie villains I once considered "contrived" suddenly plausible he's so fucking transparent. Yet his supporters still don't get it.

 

I am very skeptical of the "if only there was a progressive talking to them." There are! The most progressive people in democratic party, such as AOC and Bernie do exactly that! Help the working class, *including* in rural America is a focal point of their campaigns. But the number of these people who are Trump supporters, but also like AOC and Bernie seems incredibly tiny.

 

The conclusion I find myself unable to avoid is that there is a serious cultural problem for much of the country that cannot be fixed by merely talking to this  portion of the population. I'm at a complete loss for how to solve it. If you have suggestions, I'm very open to them, but I just cannot believe that this is solved by a politicians talking nicely to them.

[Greatoneshere]

17 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

 

So you can take your struggling family who think Trump is a magic man who can cast a spell to bring back jobs, and you can shove it up your fucking ass. People that stupid deserve whatever comes their way.

 

 

This whole post. All day.

 

[Greatoneshere]

24 minutes ago, legend said:

Trump is the most obvious con man I've ever seen. He makes obvious movie villains I once considered "contrived" suddenly plausible he's so fucking transparent. Yet his supporters still don't get it.

 

I will say, this has been the most hilarious thing I have had to internalize during his presidency. Dumb movie villains now seem very plausible, and I now give villains a much bigger pass in film and TV than I ever used to because, well, if Trump is getting away with it, then yeah, people are that dumb and these villains are plausible now.

 

Edit: All of us progressives have been talking to them for the past 5 years (so I fully agree with you)! That's what's hilarious (some of us have been talking to them since Bush got elected). All of us, AOC, Bernie, Warren, you, me. I have spent decades now trying to help these people. Get them the social service programs they want. Expand the economy. Create jobs in new industries with training and educational pathways to get them. 

 

All they respond with is AOC is some dyke minority bitch and we're all living in some dreamland that'll bankrupt their precious economy THAT ISN'T HELPING THEM. They love the stock market when most Americans don't even have money in the stock market. Then they shoot us and when we tell them to stop they say we're indecent and not civil. They don't give a shit about anything other than whatever stupid shit they already incorrectly but firmly believe. They want to troll us more than actually help people or themselves. They're selfish, whiney, babies and I am exhausted fighting with them to help them. They want to cut off their nose to spite their face, and smile Joker style while they do it. I now realize we'll have to simply completely defeat them (politically) and force them to grow up. We'll just force the changes without them (fighting against them, really) and they'll just fucking see it in practice, it's helping THEM. College for all, medicare for all, expansion of social service programs (aka defund the police, in a way), etc. 

 

BUT OBUMMER AND SOCIALISM SOMETHING SOMETHING. A culture entirely fueled by fear, rage, and hate is not a group that will ever be willing to work with you. It's as simple as that.

[MarSolo]

As someone with a Jewish grandfather, I was done with Trump supporters after Charlottesville. When he even found a way to fuck up a response to THAT, and people defended it, I was done with them.

 

They didn’t deserve my sympathies and they don’t deserve yours either. 
 

“Let them eat (dirt) cake.”

[Greatoneshere]

2 minutes ago, MarSolo said:

As someone with a Jewish grandfather, I was done with Trump supporters after Charlottesville. When he even found a way to fuck up a response to THAT, and people defended it, I was done with them.

 

They didn’t deserve my sympathies and they don’t deserve yours either. 
 

“Let them eat (dirt) cake.”

 

Honestly, and I know I keep saying this, I was genuinely shocked when Trump mocked that disabled reporter on live TV at a rally in 2016 and all the Trumpers cheered him on and ate it up. I felt so bad for the reporter and disabled people that it literally shook me out of my (at that time) political apathy.

 

It literally made me go: "I need to start following politics again. And closely. This is bad." And I've been living this nightmare ever since. I will say Charlottesville was definitely another warning sign/wake up call.

[stepee]

no

[MarSolo]

4 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Honestly, and I know I keep saying this, I was genuinely shocked when Trump mocked that disabled reporter on live TV at a rally in 2016 and all the Trumpers cheered him on and ate it up. I felt so bad for the reporter and disabled people that it literally shook me out of my (at that time) political apathy.

 

It literally made me go: "I need to start following politics again. And closely. This is bad." And I've been living this nightmare ever since. I will say Charlottesville was definitely another warning sign/wake up call.

I remember seeing Black Klansman in theaters and being so amped up and ready to fight when I left the movies:

 

Spoiler

Spike Lee having the balls to show the footage from Charlottesville, which up that point, I actively avoided seeing the footage of, just amped me up to see Trump and his ilk eventually get theirs.

And yeah, I still can’t believe that him mocking that reporter wasn’t the end of his campaign. It’s amazing the shit he’s gotten away with thus far.

[Greatoneshere]

Just now, MarSolo said:

I remember seeing Black Klansman in theaters and being so amped up and ready to fight when I left the movies:

 

  Hide contents

Spike Lee having the balls to show the footage from Charlottesville, which up that point, I actively avoided seeing the footage of, just amped me up to see Trump and his ilk eventually get theirs.

And yeah, I still can’t believe that him mocking that reporter wasn’t the end of his campaign. It’s amazing the shit he’s gotten away with thus far.

 

I felt the exact same way! BlackKklansman was so good - including the credits you mentioned. I was amped as well. 

 

Yeah, I dunno why the disabled reporter imitation gets to me, but it does. It's just the way he does it. You can just feel how much he despises both that reporter and disabled people in general. You felt how much he looked down on them. I dunno, gets me riled up.  

[skillzdadirecta]

Trump supporters chant "Fire Fauci"

 

 

Because you know... elitist Dems and some such 

[Greatoneshere]

To me, the OP title should be: "Stop demonizing demons" because that's about how stupid it sounds. Even more apt: "Stop demonizing demon supporters" makes about as much sense. Meaning, no sense at all. Of course one is going to demonize demons and demonize demon supporters. That's demon fighting 101.

 

We're demonizing them because they are, for all intents and purposes, demons (not all of them, but many, including those laughing at disabled reporter impressions, down for maskless Covid, down for kids in cages, and so on - that's demon-like behaviour in Supernatural). 

[osxmatt]

11 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Trump supporters chant "Fire Fauci"

 

 

Because you know... elitist Dems and some such 

It’s a cult.

[MarSolo]

18 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I felt the exact same way! BlackKklansman was so good - including the credits you mentioned. I was amped as well. 

 

Yeah, I dunno why the disabled reporter imitation gets to me, but it does. It's just the way he does it. You can just feel how much he despises both that reporter and disabled people in general. You felt how much he looked down on them. I dunno, gets me riled up.  

I mean, I just got done some yearly job training where I had to watch videos about language and harassment in the workplace, and pretty much how anyone doing what he did would have gotten fired and blackballed.

 

Trump on the other hand, got a pass from the RNC.

 

 

[Jason]

2 minutes ago, MarSolo said:

I mean, I just got done some yearly job training where I had to watch videos about language and harassment in the workplace, and pretty much how anyone doing what he did would have gotten fired and blackballed.

 

Trump on the other hand, got a pass from the RNC.

 

 

 

When you're famous they just let you do it.

[skillzdadirecta]

Trump was literally threatening Governors today including Michigan's. 

[Bacon]

I have lived nearly 28 years in WV. You don't want a lot of these people voting. In middle school there was a whole lunch table of rednecks singing racist Christmas carols with the hard R. They're voting Trump. 

[SimpleG]

Late to the party but heres my 5 cents

Prior to the last election

Me: They will come around, we dont agree on a lot of things but common sense will prevail

Year 1 

Me: Any minute now , they are gonna wise up

Year 2

Me: This will be the time they snap out of it!

Year 3

Me: Really yall are still hanging on to this ?

Year 4

Me:

 

 

 

 

 

I feel no sympathy for those whose only goal to keep others down even at the expense of themselves and family. I have no use for those who would ignore everything for a team win. No politician will be perfect, no president will meet  every expectation, they will make mistakes and they will do things we cant possibly understand. Trump is a willfully ill natured spiteful CUNT that makes decisions not based on information at hand but on the basis of will it profit him and will it harm those he dislikes. And those that continue to follow him after everything hes done are no different. 

[Ominous]

15 hours ago, Fizzzzle said:

I don't know if you know this, but I come from a pretty white trash family. I may have grown up in Portland, but my mom's side of the family (my dad was an orphan, so that's a different story) comes from Ohio and West Virginia. It's easy to demonize them. Do you know what Trump does that the Democrats haven't done in years? Fucking acknowledge they exist. These are people that have been told that their way of life is fucked for the last couple decades, and Obama was basically like "fuck you guys, this just is what it is."

 

Give the rural midwest an actual fucking plan for job growth and they will flock to the Democrats, I guarantee you. Keep pretending that everything is fine and the Republicans will keep winning like Bernie beat Hillary in 2016.

 

Do you know why they vote for Trump? It's because Trump acknowledges their existence. Hillary called them "deplorables." They're not deplorables, you fucking shrew, they're people in desperate times who are trying to figure out how to pay rent.

Then need to pull themselves up from the bootstraps and just make a business or move for work. 

If kids from Central America can walk thousands of miles to come here, Cletus can move from buttfuckcounty to find work someplace else.

My SIL lives in rural Michigan and it's full of people that have never even left the county they were born in....

[run32.dll]

Alright, so you get all the calling them stupid hicks out of your systems. How are you going to beat them in election years where you haven't been gifted a monumentally disliked president that handled a once in a century pandemic poorly while making sure you don't get any of them to change their votes?

[Ominous]

Just now, run32.dll said:

Alright, so you get all the calling them stupid hicks out of your systems. How are you going to beat them in election years where you haven't been gifted a monumentally disliked president that handled a once in a century pandemic poorly while making sure you don't get any of them to change their votes?

 

Eliminate voter suppression and run candidates that actually encourage non-whites and people under 40 to vote. 

[Uaarkson]

1 minute ago, run32.dll said:

Alright, so you get all the calling them stupid hicks out of your systems. How are you going to beat them in election years where you haven't been gifted a monumentally disliked president that handled a once in a century pandemic poorly while making sure you don't get any of them to change their votes?

 

That'll be a nice bridge to cross, IF we come to it. For now, none of it matters. These people are permanently brain-washed.

[ort]

Figure out a way to eliminate the electoral college and/or have the senate more closely match the political values of the country it represents.