Television Game of Thrones - Season 8 - Starting April 14th

[Kal-El814]

11 hours ago, fuckle85 said:

But the thing is, mostly it felt like the dumber/more risky decisions that characters made were fewer back then and definitely less obvious, and they usually paid for mistakes harder. 

I don’t know that this is true, at least not the frequency bit; obviously Ned, Cat, and Robb paid a high price. Again though MOST of what Ned and Cat do is just DUMB. Like, “so the last thing Jon Arryn did before dying a mysterious death was check this book out from the library? Hand it over please, I’m going to carry it around In public for a bit and talk to the same people he did during his last week alive.”

 

10 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Which is why Littlefinger and Varys both realized that while he may be an honorable man and a great soldier, he was TERRIBLE at The Game. Cersei realized it after ONE conversation with him. It was kind of the point of his character... he was out of his depth when it came to the REAL games of power.

It’s clear to everyone else that Ned is terrible at the game of thrones and he gets played horribly as a result. But given who he is there’s really no excuse for him to be SO DUMB as to think that he can be engaged with all the players while remaining off the board himself. 

 

So I’m all in on having a character with flaws, but I’ve always felt that Ned is way dumber than he should be.  

[Ghost_MH]

This has always been a show about the people that make dumb decisions and the people that make ruthless decisions.

[TwinIon]

I think this episode might be the most successful the show has ever been at creating drama between two characters that shouldn't be antagonistic. The discussion with Jon and Dany played out just like it should have. Jon isn't being coy, he's honoring his vows, he's trying to do the right thing, but almost everyone else around him recognizes that it probably doesn't matter. Jon Snow remains the honorable idiot. I also think this episode did a pretty good job of making the case that Dany shouldn't sit on the Iron Throne. The show has only ever hinted at this (burning the Tarleys), but I didn't feel like it was a whiplash moment, when it easily could have been. We're so close to the end, and I think the show has really set it up to go in any number of directions.

 

This episode is by far the closest the show has gotten to convincing me that Jon Snow should win. He's still too easily manipulated to ever be any good at ruling, but he might be the vehicle for Tyrion to rule in the same way his father did.

 

I kind of assume that Euron will pick up on the whole baby thing, but I'm not certain he cares. He's kinda all over the place and not exactly a traditionalist. I can imagine him deciding he doesn't care who the dad is as long as Jamie dies and he gets to be king.

 

Far from a perfect episode (Ghost...), but overall a mostly effective one well cemented in character.

[Mercury33]

2 hours ago, Amazatron said:

God forbid anyone criticizes the show...

 

So Cersei was totally fine with executing Danaerys’s maiden during this so called white banner negotiation, but oh no, she has the honor to not just waste her biggest threat standing there demanding total surrender.

 

Relax chief. Discussions have two sides. 

 

Despite how evil Cersai has been it’s not like she hasn’t had moments throughout the show that add depth and layers to her character. She isn’t one note. You could see that in that scene alone by not killing Tyrion. She’ll never have an easier opportunity than she did there. She also could have ambushed ALL of her enemies at the meeting last season but she honored the meeting then too. 

 

And executing a prisoner that was part of your terms isn’t the same thing as slaughtering opposing leaders under a white banner(or whatever we want to call it)

 

Also does Dany really want Cersai to just step aside? Of course not. She wants to crush her. So why bring a show of force that might have a chance of actually force a surrender(no matter how small of a chance)

[Firewithin]

PET THE DIREWOLF YOU GOD DAMN MONSTER.  

 

Jon should lose just for that

[Alpha1Cowboy]

13 hours ago, LazyPiranha said:

Have there been two actors with less chemistry than Harrington and Clarke?  Whenever they say how much they love each other I remember that's supposed to be a thing in this show.  

Christensen and Portman

 

 

Also....this season sucks hard.  Writers just trying to wrap things up in the most starightforward way as possible.   Uncreative battles, fast travel,  and writing out characters they don't know what to do with.

 

I got Arya killing Cersei as the Hound takes on his brother.  They'll probably use the fighting/war as cover to sneak in and deal with the Queen.

 

 

 

[JPDunks4]

Does Dany have a sizable force? She is there now with only who accompanied her on the ships right?  Those ships were destroyed and whoever swam to shore is all she has left right?

 

Jon is coming with the more sizable armies, but he's still not close to Kings Landing.  

 

Also with Tyrion on the ships, the fact they were completely unprepared and surprised by the Iron Fleet makes no sense.  Dany might not be the smartest tactically, but at least Tyrion would probably say, umm maybe we shouldn't just sail straight to Kings Landing with the entire Iron Fleet reinforcing her.  The only explanation would be, with the 2 dragons they may have been way overconfident and not worried about running into the Iron Fleet since the Dragons theoretically should be able to waste the fleet quickly.  But they know they had ballistas in previous battles, so even that just seems too unbelievable to me.

[elbobo]

Tyrion has gotten noticeably dumber these last few seasons 

[Ghost_MH]

27 minutes ago, Alpha1Cowboy said:

Christensen and Portman

 

 

Also....this season sucks hard.  Writers just trying to wrap things up in the most starightforward way as possible.   Uncreative battles, fast travel,  and writing out characters they don't know what to do with.

 

I got Arya killing Cersei as the Hound takes on his brother.  They'll probably use the fighting/war as cover to sneak in and deal with the Queen. 

 

I'm fairly certain Arya and the Hound are already in the city. They set out for King's Landing before the armies did and two people moving alone and without a care in the world are going to be moving a whole lot faster than an army lugging along supplies. When Cersei left the gates open for all who wanted to, I'd be surprised if those two didn't sneak in along the the other unwashed masses.

[Mercury33]

3 minutes ago, JPDunks4 said:

Does Dany have a sizable force? She is there now with only who accompanied her on the ships right?  Those ships were destroyed and whoever swam to shore is all she has left right?

 

Jon is coming with the more sizable armies, but he's still not close to Kings Landing.  

 

Also with Tyrion on the ships, the fact they were completely unprepared and surprised by the Iron Fleet makes no sense.  Dany might not be the smartest tactically, but at least Tyrion would probably say, umm maybe we shouldn't just sail straight to Kings Landing with the entire Iron Fleet reinforcing her.  The only explanation would be, with the 2 dragons they may have been way overconfident and not worried about running into the Iron Fleet since the Dragons theoretically should be able to waste the fleet quickly.  But they know they had ballistas in previous battles, so even that just seems too unbelievable to me.

 

They made mention that Dany's army is now roughly the same size as Cersai's after the losses at the Battle of Winterfell.

 

From the small amount of searching I did, Dany had(before the battle) 10k Northerners, 10K Knights of the Vale, 7-8K Unsullied, and some amount under 100k Dothraki.  Cersai's Lannister army took a big hit from the dragons so less than 10K of them, 20K Golden Company and 30k Ironborn.

[JPDunks4]

5 minutes ago, Mercury33 said:

 

They made mention that Dany's army is now roughly the same size as Cersai's after the losses at the Battle of Winterfell.

 

From the small amount of searching I did, Dany had(before the battle) 10k Northerners, 10K Knights of the Vale, 7-8K Unsullied, and some amount under 100k Dothraki.  Cersai's Lannister army took a big hit from the dragons so less than 10K of them, 20K Golden Company and 30k Ironborn.

 

DIdn't they mean Dany's army including the troops Jon is coming with?  I just didn't get the impression they had a sizable fleet to transport a large army, and that is all they have at Kings Landing at the time.

 

I still enjoy the show, just think an 8 episode season would've done wonders for a few of these storylines.

[Amazatron]

1 hour ago, Mercury33 said:

 

Relax chief. Discussions have two sides. 

 

Despite how evil Cersai has been it’s not like she hasn’t had moments throughout the show that add depth and layers to her character. She isn’t one note. You could see that in that scene alone by not killing Tyrion. She’ll never have an easier opportunity than she did there. She also could have ambushed ALL of her enemies at the meeting last season but she honored the meeting then too. 

 

And executing a prisoner that was part of your terms isn’t the same thing as slaughtering opposing leaders under a white banner(or whatever we want to call it)

 

Also does Dany really want Cersai to just step aside? Of course not. She wants to crush her. So why bring a show of force that might have a chance of actually force a surrender(no matter how small of a chance)

 

You're right, Dany has no intention of peacefully taking King's Landing, which is why it was such utterly lazy writing to have her even there in the first place standing there with a bullseye on her head with that pathetic excuse for a "show of force".  If she wanted "faux diplomacy", just send Tyrion in.  Like previously mentioned, it was only for the plot device for her and Grey Worm to see Missandre's execution.

 

And I must have missed the part where executions of PoWs are allowed during negotiations.  It is pretty clear Cersei doesn't give a fuck.  

[Spork3245]

Jon didn’t pet Ghost simply because rendering the hair movements of a green screened wolf via CGI would have put them over budget.

[johnny]

17 minutes ago, Amazatron said:

 

And I must have missed the part where executions of PoWs are allowed during negotiations.  It is pretty clear Cersei doesn't give a fuck.  

I don’t even think you’re paying attention 

[Mercury33]

21 minutes ago, Amazatron said:

 

You're right, Dany has no intention of peacefully taking King's Landing, which is why it was such utterly lazy writing to have her even there in the first place standing there with a bullseye on her head with that pathetic excuse for a "show of force".  If she wanted "faux diplomacy", just send Tyrion in.  Like previously mentioned, it was only for the plot device for her and Grey Worm to see Missandre's execution.

 

And I must have missed the part where executions of PoWs are allowed during negotiations.  It is pretty clear Cersei doesn't give a fuck.  

 

I feel like you only watched the episode with it on in the back ground 

[johnny]

I’m pretty sure Cersei is baiting Dany into torching innocent people. Or at least making the first move in front of the people so people see Dany in a bad light and Cersei as the person protecting them. 

[SuperSpreader]

Cersei, Arya, and Sansa are the only brains in this show.

[fuckle85]

3 hours ago, Kal-El814 said:

I don’t know that this is true, at least not the frequency bit; obviously Ned, Cat, and Robb paid a high price. Again though MOST of what Ned and Cat do is just DUMB. Like, “so the last thing Jon Arryn did before dying a mysterious death was check this book out from the library? Hand it over please, I’m going to carry it around In public for a bit and talk to the same people he did during his last week alive.”

 

The Starks at that time were mostly unaware of their opponents's strategies (or that there were even so many opponents and who those opponents were) and how ruthless the game was and how skilled the Lannisters were at keeping the throne, so many of their dumb decisions didn't even register as dumb decisions until it was too late.  The entire feud between the Lannisters and Starks all began with a happenstance moment of Bran stumbling upon Jamie and Cersei's secret.  The feud itself started as a secret play of the Lannisters since Bran was in a coma and couldn't inform anyone about what happened. 

 

A truth about the grossness of conquest and power that's more or less universal is how it tends to involve getting there first, using the resources you're afforded to deny others from getting there too and withholding forgiveness to them for that, and using your position as an advantage to initiate conflicts that anyone outside your circle of trust are usually disallowed from knowing they are participants in.  And that's exactly what The Lannisters and the Freys did to the Starks in the early seasons.  That's the horror of their situation and why their deaths were so shocking. 

 

And the Red Wedding also came out of nowhere because of how little you knew about Walder Frey's pettiness and ruthlessness over someone not keeping their word about wedding his daughters (and more importantly, the backroom deal he made with the Boltons and Lannisters).  There was no way of knowing things would escalate to that point. But now we have seasoned characters who've been in the game for several years and should know better than to do a lot of the dumb things they keep doing that are clearly happening to move the plot forward in a manner that's a bit more contrived than it needs to be.  

[elbobo]

Remember when Varys had a vast spy network, maybe one of those spies should have told him they equipped the entire iron fleet with kill-o-matic ballistas 

[Spork3245]

It’s a shame that they’re kind of obviously doing nothing regarding House Reed and The Neck. The crannogmen are basically still at full force afaik with barely any losses besides the battles at Moat Cailin. They actually never stopped fighting from the War of the Five Kings - “The North may remember, but The Neck still fights on”.

[Amazatron]

33 minutes ago, johnny said:

I don’t even think you’re paying attention 

 

30 minutes ago, Mercury33 said:

I feel like you only watched the episode with it on in the back ground 

 

Yep, only the fanboys truly understand.

[Firewithin]

11 minutes ago, elbobo said:

Remember when Varys had a vast spy network, maybe one of those spies should have told him they equipped the entire iron fleet with kill-o-matic ballistas 

didnt he leave all that behind once he ran off with tyrion after he killed his father?

[Spork3245]

11 minutes ago, Firewithin said:

didnt he leave all that behind once he ran off with tyrion after he killed his father?

 

Yea, Qyburn took over “the little birds” afaik.

 

EDIT: at least the ones in King’s Landing 

[RedSoxFan9]

15 hours ago, LazyPiranha said:

Have there been two actors with less chemistry that Harrington and Clarke?  Whenever they say how much they love each other I remember that's supposed to be a thing in this show.  

 

Kit Harrington isn’t a good actor, and Emilia Clarke checked out of this series a few years ago. 

 

 

I think Cersei wants to be the savior of kings landing (or at least win some loyalty), which she could achieve if the Targs attack and she defeats them.  That explain why she didn’t wipe out Dany and friends.

[johnny]

18 minutes ago, Amazatron said:

 

 

Yep, only the fanboys truly understand.

The dark side clouds your judgement 

[Massdriver]

I love the show, but lots of things are bothering me

 

Prophecies- Dead end. Nevermind all the other shit in the show alluding to them. The people that could tell us about prophecy are pretty much dead or don't talk. While the books make a bigger deal of them and warn not to trust them, in the show it just feels like they decided to drop it altogether because it's easier. And yes, Melisandre did talk about the prophecy in the show. No explanation necessary I guess. Just move along.

 

Magic- Over with. Melisandre is dead, Bran just talks about living in the past in one liners. The dragons are down to one and useless now. Warging is only used to fly around as crows (BRAN!) instead of I don't know, warging into the undead, or perhaps a dragon!? The Mountain and a dragon I suppose is what we have left.

 

Strategies and tactics- Someone should force the CGI animators and the directors to play some Age of Empires at least. How about you make the trenches wider, use cavalry to flank after they charge, protect your siege weapons, and fire arrows and dragon fire after you light the trenches instead of staring. Dany, take a look around when you're up that high and maybe you'll spot the Iron Fleet! Cercei, you just had to fire your new weapon you used to kill the dragon to finish off Dany!

 

Ghost- Just don't even have him in the show if this is how you're going to treat him. Good job Jon not taking your most loyal companion with you into the most dangerous situation you could imagine!

 

Story- The Night King should have been saved for last, not the political squabbles. This is anti climatic. The peak of the show was The Long Night, even with its flaws. Bottom line is that should have been the episode 5 battle.

 

Plot Armor- Without GRRM, the writers have failed to kill anyone off in surprising ways for far too long. At least 1 or 2 major characters should have died already. It's easy to predict that now we will have major characters dying left and right over the final two episodes. 

 

Jaime- If he's really running back to his sis, then his arc is ruined. He had one of the best arcs going. 

 

Bran- So much potential, so many interesting conversations we didn't get to hear, and so useless (as far as we are aware)

 

Jon- Hasn't learned a damn thing, even after dying. He doesn't deserve the throne. I'll take Cercei over him. He would be a terrible ruler, easily manipulated and far too soft. He's also the worst strategist and tactician I've ever seen 

 

Dany- A terrible leader, entitled, and apparently a nut. However, she at least has more sense than Jon.

 

 

I still love the show, but there is a lot that could have been done better. 

 

 

[fuckle85]

\

[DarkStar189]

1 hour ago, Massdriver said:

Story- The Night King should have been saved for last, not the political squabbles. This is anti climatic. The peak of the show was The Long Night, even with its flaws. Bottom line is that should have been the episode 5 battle.

 

I thought the same thing and mentioned it somewhere in this thread.  I was sad that nobody in Kings Landing got to see the full force of the dead coming to attack.  Death came with an army to kill Bran and everyone else.  Now that parts over and we get this iron throne business that feels like nonsense compared to what just happened.  It really did lower my excitement for these last few episodes because the "threat" just doesn't compare to an army of dead.

[Mercury33]

2 hours ago, Amazatron said:

 

 

Yep, only the fanboys truly understand.

 

Oh don’t get all pouty lol. Both @johnny and I have critiqued the show as well. So it seems you read through this thread with the same attention to detail you watch the show 😂

[TheLeon]

[Amazatron]

4 minutes ago, Mercury33 said:

 

Oh don’t get all pouty lol. Both @johnny and I have critiqued the show as well. So it seems you read through this thread with the same attention to detail you watch the show 😂

 

LOL, you guys are the ones getting all defensive.  "OMG NITPICK CORRECTLY!"  "YOU JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND!"

[skillzdadirecta]

4 hours ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

I'm fairly certain Arya and the Hound are already in the city. They set out for King's Landing before the armies did and two people moving alone and without a care in the world are going to be moving a whole lot faster than an army lugging along supplies. When Cersei left the gates open for all who wanted to, I'd be surprised if those two didn't sneak in along the the other unwashed masses.

Arya and The Hound are definitely in the city already.

[johnny]

54 minutes ago, Amazatron said:

 

LOL, you guys are the ones getting all defensive.  "OMG NITPICK CORRECTLY!"  "YOU JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND!"

Not our fault you are missing things in the show 

[SuperSpreader]

[Amazatron]

1 hour ago, johnny said:

Not our fault you are missing things in the show 

 

Take off the rose-tinted glasses brah.