NYT: Trump Made $413M From Tax Fraud

[ort]

Anyone who isn't a complete fucking drooling simpleton moron (aka a Trump supporter) knew that he was rotten to the core financially when he refused to release his tax returns.

[thewhyteboar]

Scientists have never seen a creature so lacking in spine.

[skillzdadirecta]

5 hours ago, ort said:

Anyone who isn't a complete fucking drooling simpleton moron (aka a Trump supporter) knew that he was rotten to the core financially when he refused to release his tax returns.

Or if they had actually paid attention to his actual record over the previous 30 years.

[The def star]

Didn't he brag about that it was smart of him for paying very little taxes?

[Jason]

16 minutes ago, The def star said:

Didn't he brag about that it was smart of him for paying very little taxes?

 

7 hours ago, Jason said:

 

October 2016:

 

TRUMP: I 'brilliantly used' tax laws to pay as little as possible

 

[ByWatterson]

22 hours ago, SFLUFAN said:

“The theme I see here through all of this is valuations: They play around with valuations in extreme ways,” said Lee-Ford Tritt, a University of Florida law professor and a leading expert in gift and estate tax law. “There are dramatic fluctuations depending on their purpose.”

 

I couldn't agree more!  When I was working closely with estate and trust taxes during my public accounting career, this was the area where we walked the line between "aggressive" and "possibly illegal".

 

And the University of Florida's tax law program is perhaps the best in the country, right @SaysWho? and @ByWatterson?

 

It is! And Tritt is a fantastic professor (albeit with a much-rumored propensity to be VERY friendly with law students).

[Greatoneshere]

1 hour ago, ByWatterson said:

 

It is! And Tritt is a fantastic professor (albeit with a much-rumored propensity to be VERY friendly with law students).

 

Speaking about law professors I definitely knew some that were VERY friendly with the female students at Villanova Law as well. 

[ByWatterson]

25 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Speaking about law professors I definitely knew some that were VERY friendly with the female students at Villanova Law as well. 

 

Well, this guy swings the other way, but yeah. What I heard. 

[sexy_shapiro]

What’s the point in being a college professor if you can’t be friendly with the students? It’s the number one reason why it’s better than teaching high school.

[SimpleG]

 

[Ricofoley]

Amazing how little impact this story had. Everyone's views are just completely ossified. Either you basically assumed this from day one, or there's nothing that could convince you that this isn't a fake news hit piece.

[Chairslinger]

5 minutes ago, Ricofoley said:

Amazing how little impact this story had. Everyone's views are just completely ossified. Either you basically assumed this from day one, or there's nothing that could convince you that this isn't a fake news hit piece.

The sad thing is this does not end with Trump.

 

It's impossible to see where this goes after Trump, just as it was near impossible to see the rise of Trump. But the real problem is the right wing echo chamber. Whatever arises on the right will be as ugly, or even uglier if trends continue. That's the scary thought. To wonder how it can get uglier than Trump, but all signs point to that being true.

[Brick]

A story like this would ruin any other presidency. For Trump, it was a Tuesday. 

[CitizenVectron]

Outside of waging a war on false pretenses this is probably the biggest scandal in Presidential history, and it got less than one day of coverage.

[TheLeon]

All I see is a brilliant businessman stickin' it to the man! 

[Chairslinger]

8 hours ago, Brick said:

A story like this would ruin any other presidency. For Trump, it was a Tuesday. 

 

 

I don't think it was even the biggest news item of the day.

[TwinIon]

14 hours ago, Ricofoley said:

Amazing how little impact this story had. Everyone's views are just completely ossified. Either you basically assumed this from day one, or there's nothing that could convince you that this isn't a fake news hit piece.

I've only talked to a couple people about it and each one's reaction was "didn't we already know that?"

 

I know it's hard to be surprised or angered or even interested in each and every norm or federal law that Trump flaunts, but I still thought that this story would register. It's such careful and detailed reporting that exposes so many oft repeated lies, ripping apart the carefully crafted mythology of our President.

 

I hope that, at the very least, we see this story come up again when Trump is running for reelection.

[MarSolo]

I know most people are entrenched on their "sides", but I feel like this was a story that would have swayed people who voted for him based on the notion of "he was a self made billionaire who would run the country like he runs his businesses".

 

The Woodward book proved that he had no idea how even the most basic stuff in government worked, so it was no shock that he had no idea how even business stuff worked.

[Zarich]

You people really think people didn't know Trump was a crook? EVERYONE knows Trump is a crook.  I believe he won because they know he is a crook, but they suspect the other candidates might also be crooks.  So people voted for what they knew as opposed to sneaky underhanded don't know.  What really bugs me in this country is people believed there were only two options.  There weren't.  We deserve exactly what we got.

[skillzdadirecta]

1 hour ago, Zarich said:

You people really think people didn't know Trump was a crook? EVERYONE knows Trump is a crook.  I believe he won because they know he is a crook, but they suspect the other candidates might also be crooks.  So people voted for what they knew as opposed to sneaky underhanded don't know.  What really bugs me in this country is people believed there were only two options.  There weren't.  We deserve exactly what we got.

 

While I agree with the last part, a lot of people didn't know this stuff about Trump or at least claim they didn't. I had a conversation with a Trump supporting Uber driver a couple of weeks back and he completely bought into the whole "self made billionaire, genius businessman bullshit". Why? Because The Apprentice and Hollywood had told him this about him for decades.

[PaladinSolo]

19 hours ago, Zarich said:

You people really think people didn't know Trump was a crook? EVERYONE knows Trump is a crook.  I believe he won because they know he is a crook, but they suspect the other candidates might also be crooks.  So people voted for what they knew as opposed to sneaky underhanded don't know.  What really bugs me in this country is people believed there were only two options.  There weren't.  We deserve exactly what we got.

No its really just the 2 options, green and libertarian parties throwing out a presidential candidate every 4 years isn't an option while holding 0 seats nationally.

[SilentWorld]

20 hours ago, Zarich said:

You people really think people didn't know Trump was a crook? EVERYONE knows Trump is a crook.  I believe he won because they know he is a crook, but they suspect the other candidates might also be crooks.  So people voted for what they knew as opposed to sneaky underhanded don't know.  What really bugs me in this country is people believed there were only two options.  There weren't.  We deserve exactly what we got.

 

Two years later and people are still pulling this false equivalence?  

[MarSolo]

22 hours ago, Zarich said:

You people really think people didn't know Trump was a crook? EVERYONE knows Trump is a crook.  I believe he won because they know he is a crook, but they suspect the other candidates might also be crooks.  So people voted for what they knew as opposed to sneaky underhanded don't know.  What really bugs me in this country is people believed there were only two options.  There weren't.  We deserve exactly what we got.

 

I've got family and friends who think Trump is a genius businessman. 

[Zarich]

1 hour ago, MarSolo said:

 

I've got family and friends who think Trump is a genius businessman. 

He IS a genius business man.  Even though he is a crook.  He has convinced more people to give him money, TV shows, and a presidency.  Say what you will, but you have to be pretty smart to trick that many people on that wide of a scale.

[Boyle5150]

47 minutes ago, Zarich said:

He IS a genius business man.  Even though he is a crook.  He has convinced more people to give him money, TV shows, and a presidency.  Say what you will, but you have to be pretty smart to trick that many people on that wide of a scale.

Or people have to be really dumb to allow this type of shit to continue.  

 

Trump is not a smart person.  

[mclumber1]

6 hours ago, PaladinSolo said:

No its really just the 2 options, green and libertarian parties throwing out a presidential candidate every 4 years isn't an option while holding 0 seats nationally.

 

I think if Johnson were in the Presidential debates in 2016, Clinton would have won.  Trump won the EC because of a few thousand votes in Michigan, Wisconsin, and a few other states.  In general,  The Libertarian candidate was getting more votes from GOP voters than Democrats.  If Johnson had more exposure at the national level, especially at the debates, I have no doubt that many "never Trump" GOPers would have vote for Johnson instead of biting the bullet and voting for someone they didn't like, because they especially hated Clinton. 

 

We often make fun of Johnson for the Aleppo thing, but we forget that Trump won the election despite saying 100 idiotic things and not just one.  

[LazyPiranha]

6 hours ago, Zarich said:

He IS a genius business man.  Even though he is a crook.  He has convinced more people to give him money, TV shows, and a presidency.  Say what you will, but you have to be pretty smart to trick that many people on that wide of a scale.

 

No, he isn't.  

 

Being successful doesn't mean you're smart, let alone a genius.  It's one of these weird seemingly uniquely american myths, the notion that the super rich are incredible at what they do.  Meanwhile, ask your average worker if they think they're boss is smarter than them and they'll scoff.  The world is full of people walking around telling everyone their boss is a moron who has no idea how anything works, yet when you look outside of your own experience you assume that the people in charge got there through intelligence and hard work.  

 

Many super rich people, probably most super rich people, get there through a blinding streak of luck they managed to ride and not fall off.  Change one or two parts of Trump's background, and he's working at his uncle's tire shop catcalling at women who walk by.  He is not some fundamentally brilliant person or some generational talent.  He was born at the right place, at the right time, and to the right people and that's it.    

[Snaynay1]

Anyone that grew up in the New York Area and grew up with seeing Trump on TV 15 years before Trump was a reality TV star knew is he was crooked. You don't get buildings made in Manhattan without large amounts of grease money going to certain people. Even if it was his father doing most of the work. How anyone could think this guy walked a straight line to be a billionaire is a fucken moron.

[Greatoneshere]

25 minutes ago, Snaynay1 said:

Anyone that grew up in the New York Area and grew up with seeing Trump on TV 15 years before Trump was a reality TV star knew is he was crooked. You don't get buildings made in Manhattan without large amounts of grease money going to certain people. Even if it was his father doing most of the work. How anyone could think this guy walked a straight line to be a billionaire is a fucken moron.

 

Grease payments are actually part of the natural course of business - we were taught it in graduate business school.

 

However, bribes are illegal and frowned up even in the business community (at least academically). 

[ort]

Trump is a genius in that he cracked the code. He figured out that politics is nothing but perception and media manipulation. Control the message and you control the world.

 

Politics is a reality TV show. He knows how to put on a show for TV and that's what he did. He understands just how stupid most of are and he was able to harness that stupidity to put himself into power.

 

So much of what holds back most of these guys is trying to conform to social norms and unwritten rules. Ignore all of those and just plow forward. That's the modern recipe for success.

[Boyle5150]

3 hours ago, ort said:

Trump is a genius in that he cracked the code. He figured out that politics is nothing but perception and media manipulation. Control the message and you control the world.

 

Politics is a reality TV show. He knows how to put on a show for TV and that's what he did. He understands just how stupid most of are and he was able to harness that stupidity to put himself into power.

 

So much of what holds back most of these guys is trying to conform to social norms and unwritten rules. Ignore all of those and just plow forward. That's the modern recipe for success.

No, he's not a genius for "cracking the code" he is just a horrible person for actually going about the way in which this sort of thing works.  Of course this will work on a large percentage of stupid/greedy people.  A lot of people know that this thing will work, but most people actually care about others and have some dignity and a moral compass as well as the maturity level above a 4th grader.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

42 minutes ago, Boyle5150 said:

No, he's not a genius for "cracking the code" he is just a horrible person for actually going about the way in which this sort of thing works.  Of course this will work on a large percentage of stupid/greedy people.  A lot of people know that this thing will work, but most people actually care about others and have some dignity and a moral compass as well as the maturity level above a 4th grader.

It's not like he's the one who figured this out either. He just said to lawyers do whatever you can to get me the most money.

[Boyle5150]

Just now, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

It's not like he's the one who figured this out either. He just said to lawyers do whatever you can to get me the most money.

pretty much.  I could do the same thing as he does if I didn't care about others and only cared about myself and how much money I make.  If anything, he should get credit for being able to actually be a huge piece of shit, and not give a fuck.

[Snaynay1]

On 10/8/2018 at 9:36 AM, Greatoneshere said:

 

Grease payments are actually part of the natural course of business - we were taught it in graduate business school.

 

 However, bribes are illegal and frowned up even in the business community (at least academically). 

I was taught it as well, and while it might be legal for American businesses to make them to foreign governments it sure as fuck isn't legal in the United States.

[Greatoneshere]

4 minutes ago, Snaynay1 said:

I was taught it as well, and while it might be legal for American businesses to make them to foreign governments it sure as fuck isn't legal in the United States.

 

That's fair - grease payments are technically illegal though, even with foreign governments, people just turn a blind eye. The same thing happens plenty domestically as well, at least in my work experience. But all forms of grease payments are technically illegal as I understand it. 

 

There's a limit and an understanding though. As I said, it can easily slip into bribery.