What’s ‘digital blackface?’ And why is it wrong when White people use it?

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

7 minutes ago, Bjomesphat said:

 

Latin America, sure. I would say people from Spain are white Europeans though.

 

Furthermore, there are significant variations in ethnicity within Latin American populations.

[Reputator]

5 minutes ago, Jwheel86 said:

You may all continue to use disabled memes. I pardon thee. 

 

That said I think it is important to ask does this author speak for the group? Few years ago a group tried to push non disabled people to say "differently abled" or "extra abled", and the disabled community was furious that this group was trying to speak for all of us and pushing something we did not want. 

 

Yeah good point. A lot of people try to push their second-hand offense on behalf of a group they're not even a part of.

[Bjomesphat]

9 minutes ago, Jwheel86 said:

You may all continue to use disabled memes. I pardon thee. 

 

That said I think it is important to ask does this author speak for the group? Few years ago a group tried to push non disabled people to say "differently abled" or "extra abled", and the disabled community was furious that this group was trying to speak for all of us and pushing something we did not want. 

 

Yeah I find this happens a lot. Usually with white progressive allies. I could be wrong, but isn't Latinx not favored by Hispanics and largely pushed by white people?

[AbsolutSurgen]

Just now, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

Furthermore, there are significant variations in ethnicity within Latin American populations.

And in Spain.

[Keyser_Soze]

42 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

Was "catch me outside, how about that?" funny because she was white? Would it be racist to laugh at it if she were black?

 

I mean yeah it was funny because she was white because she was trying to act black. If she was black and said it then yeah it might be a little racist because the saying is no longer funny.  

[Spork3245]

1 minute ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

I mean yeah it was funny because she was white because she was trying to act black. If she was black and said it then yeah it might be a little racist because the saying is no longer funny.  

 

Nah, it would still be funny because she's on Doctor Phil and high AF  

[MarSolo]

 

I’ve broken the thread.

[stepee]

I think there is a kernel of truth here and I think @Keyser_Soze did a pretty good break down. It is one of those things I’ve noticed and sometimes you can definitely tell memes are being used very much as a sort of “digital blackface”. 
 

It’s definitely something that is a specific usage that is a bit complex to define and if you look at it too broadly, the actual offense is easily confused as a more general faux outrage. And since it involves humor it’s just one of those things that will take society awhile to be on board with the idea that maybe this isn’t cool to do anymore even when it’s better defined. 

 

But it is something that does happen, if it’s enough to be a real problem could be debated, but it doesn’t hurt to at least hear this general concept and maybe think about it a second when you are communicating in public so that you don’t cross a line you didn’t mean to.

 

Getting into and fighting over the details on it right now sounds like a real cluster fuck tho 

[GeneticBlueprint]

26 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

Furthermore, there are significant variations in ethnicity within Latin American populations.

Half the people I met in Chile were more pale than I am. And that’s saying quite a bit. 

[SuperSpreader]

2 hours ago, Bjomesphat said:

Just don't use gifs that are stereotyping a marginalized group, whether intentionally or not.

 

I think this is a good example of a gif that was everywhere on gaming forums years back.

 

And should definitely not be used anymore, even though I've seen it pretty recently which is how I was reminded of it.

[GeneticBlueprint]

1 hour ago, Keyser_Soze said:

I think there is a lot of misinterpreting the idea of the article.

 

The digital blackface is if a white person uses something that really only comes from a black person not that a black person is in the gif.

 

Like if the gif was some black guy saying, "Sup my n*nja" then there's no reason for a white person to use it. The article goes into "Nobody ain't got time for this" which also is something a white person would not say and it was so normalized as funny no one really stopped to think is this funny because of the black lady?

 

Someone said the Chapelle "Ya hate to see it" which I don't think is a digital blackface because there is nothing stereotypical about it.

And since people are really going off the deep end to be offended by this, it's a gif so it's not like a blind joke there's literally a picture of the person in the joke you're using.

 

Now the "outrage" here has also extended into "I can't do this this this?" and yeah if person of color came up to you and said, "Please don't do this / say this" you probably would say, "Sure I won't" well I hope you would anyway, otherwise you're just an asshole.

I always thought the “Ain’t nobody got time for that” was like a southern thing. I never thought of it as a black thing. TIL

[GeneticBlueprint]

1 minute ago, SuperSpreader said:

As with most white imitations of things, it pales in comparison to the original. 

[SuperSpreader]

3 minutes ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

As with most white imitations of things, it pales in comparison to the original. 

 

Here's the 100% white-use approved version 

[SuperSpreader]

 

Whites take note 

[Uaarkson]

White people also need to stop saying things like “oh lawd”

[SuperSpreader]

Just now, Uaarkson said:

White people also need to stop saying things like “oh lawd”

 

never been to the south 

 

 

[mclumber1]

After society decided we were all one people, we completely burned down that idea and decided to put everyone back into silos, to the chagrin of actual racists and racist-adjacent people. 

[Mr.Vic20]

I don't know where to begin or end with an opinion on this subject. What I will say is that I feel similar to Stepee's view of think before you post, and that we all could stand to reflect a little before doing so. That said, I do really think that the rich do an amazing job of keeping us pecking at each other over offenses that we can't ultimately police in any truly effective manner. Time and individual faculty play a role in what can be forged and maintained in this world and I sometimes fear we are too distracted to be anything other than vocally ineffectual. We need to topple the economics of the power brokers that destroy life on the large scale, as this is likely to have the greatest long term benefit to removing social and cultural underpinnings of racism, and several other loathsome isms for that matter. Vic's 10 minute lunch break thoughts, apologies if its back of napkin and incomplete. Away I go! 

[Guest]

“Nothing white peoples hate more than being told “no” by us” - Shirley Samuels

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

2 hours ago, Bjomesphat said:

 

Sure in an ideal world that would be great. But there's a reason why someone calling you a cracker will likely just bounce off of you versus someone using the n-word against a black person. There's no meaningful history of oppression against white Americans with effects still felt today.

when I was younger I thought “cracker” was in reference to saltines. Ie salty white people. 
 

it wasn’t until I older and I learned the real reason and origin for the term. Sure did change my feelings on the term. 
 

[Guest]

To @Jwheel86’s question, a cousin of mine sent a link to the article in a group message that is all Black or biracial people. The opinions on the article were pretty diverse, though all acknowledged times where they felt a bit on the outside when memes/gifs were flying around in a predominantly white space. Obviously every person has a different perception of each instance, and context plays a huge role in how certain actions come across.

 

As I said in the OP, hopefully stuff like this makes us a bit more conscious of the way we communicate. Just because we can do something, doesn’t mean we should do it.

 

I think I mentioned before that I used to have a much dumber view of disability issues than I do today, and I credit our dear @Jwheel86 and his posts about such things with broadening my understanding. Imperfect I will always be, but it’s worth making an effort to listen to people who have a truly different experience than I do.

[ort]

This has like a million complicated layers going on, but I'm glad this discussion is happening. I fully admit to using the phrase "Ain't Nobody Got Time For That!" all the time and I honestly never even gave it a second thought.

 

In a lot of ways, being overly careful about things like this can also be a form of hidden racism. Something like Donald Glover walking into a room on fire has nothing at all to do with race. His race isn't important. Think, but don't over think.

 

I've heard that Chappelle quote before... but you can't tell me that classic Dave Chappele Show sketches weren't also peddling in this exact form of humor. Dave is from Silver Springs, Maryland. He didn't really grow up around people like hot-hand in a dice game "Tron" or crackhead "Tyron Biggins". When he doubles down on comical exaggerated black stereotypes and turns them up to 11, he's really doing the exact same thing... and I think where a lot of pushback comes in is that he's "allowed" to make jokes like that, while others are not.

 

At some point it has to be okay to point out and maybe even laugh about the differences between cultures... but your heart has to be in the right place and you have to be willing to keep an open mind.

 

I think the best course of action is to always listen and take things like this seriously... and always be coming from a place of love and acceptance and have a willingness to listen and understand how the world looks to people who have different life experiences.

 

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if this article doesn't get picked up by the right wing outrage-o-sphere and turned into the bullshit culture war story of the day. 

[stepee]

My only issue is with the article itself. I didn’t read it but I don’t like all the words.

[AbsolutSurgen]

27 minutes ago, stepee said:

My only issue is with the article itself. I didn’t read it but I don’t like all the words.

They should have written it in memes.

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, ort said:

At some point it has to be okay to point out and maybe even laugh about the differences between cultures... but your heart has to be in the right place and you have to be willing to keep an open mind.

 

I was having a conversation recently with somebody about humor. I was making the case that there is a huge difference between drawing out the differences between cultures (racial, ethnic, whatever) for comedic effect, and mocking cultures for being different. Like, it is just a fact that the typical backyard cookout for the average white family is different from that of the average Black family, and noting some of those differences can be funny. It can also turn really quick into something worse.

 

I remember many years ago seeing an article about the NBA player, Dirk Nowitski, and the fact that he would often show up to home games with a plate of food wrapped in foil. There were some who viewed it as a cute nod to the fact that Nowitski is married to a Black woman, and such a thing is very strongly associated with Black women taking care of their family. Like, if I happen to miss a family meal at my Granny's house, I'm for sure going to have 3 or 4 foil wrapped plates dropped off at my house by my parents  There were also another set of responses that were quite clearly mocking the woman and Dirk for this "low class" behavior of this very wealthy couple.

 

And with something like this, there is always a murky place in the middle between appropriate and inappropriate behaviors. I think the main issue I have with the article is that I don't think there is a hard and fast rule here, but I do think it is worth asking ourselves questions about the impact of our words (and images) on other people. 

[ort]

There's a Tik Tok trope involving going around a construction site at lunch time and showing off all of the amazing lunches that have been packed by the wives/girlfriends of the (mostly) hispanic men... it's pretty delightful. I think a lot of it is the wives are flexing a bit knowing they are going to be filmed...

[legend]

I think complete digital segregation would be bad for society.

 

I also think the article's claim was much more nuanced than that and was pointing toward particular memes that may be demeaning.

 

I don't think it's worth worrying about whether a person of the same race is "allowed" to still share such memes. First, if it's perpetuating a bad idea, don't participate. Why would you worry that you "can't" participate in something that's bad? Second, people who are struggling with things often use humor amongst themselves to cope with it. You jumping in when you don't suffer from it isn't the same -- you're not coping, which means it's not the same thing. Human psychology isn't divided into clear neat rules.

 

Finally, only a bad comedian continues to make a joke that hurts his audience while gaining nothing of value in the process.

[Kal-El814]

When there's an imbalance of power and the comparatively underprivileged group asks the privileged group to stop doing or saying something, the immediate response is something akin to, "if I am told I cannot do / say one thing, it's the first bit of pavement on the road that leads to me not being able to do / say anything; this is the actual problem." See this topic, see comedians complaining about cancel culture, see the annual panic about "not being able to say Merry Christmas anymore," etc.

 

I've for sure posted the "didn't read lol" gif with the black guy dancing and holding chicken, I've definitely quoted other black memes; I don't think it's ever really occurred to me that it's potentially problematic. Which is funny because I don't think I'd say, "hide yo kids, hide yo wife," aloud IRL.

 

Implicit bias is a bitch.

[CayceG]

There's a really good point to be debated here and I think it's a point that everyone should reflect on with gif usage. 

 

 

But all I want to say right now is... I'm fine with white people posting reaction gifs of black men so long as it keeps The Office memes off my screen. Fuck The Office. 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

Whole lotta “scratch a capitalist and a fascist bleeds” energy here 

[SuperSpreader]

3 hours ago, sblfilms said:

 

I was having a conversation recently with somebody about humor. I was making the case that there is a huge difference between drawing out the differences between cultures (racial, ethnic, whatever) for comedic effect, and mocking cultures for being different. Like, it is just a fact that the typical backyard cookout for the average white family is different from that of the average Black family, and noting some of those differences can be funny. It can also turn really quick into something worse.

 

I remember many years ago seeing an article about the NBA player, Dirk Nowitski, and the fact that he would often show up to home games with a plate of food wrapped in foil. There were some who viewed it as a cute nod to the fact that Nowitski is married to a Black woman, and such a thing is very strongly associated with Black women taking care of their family. Like, if I happen to miss a family meal at my Granny's house, I'm for sure going to have 3 or 4 foil wrapped plates dropped off at my house by my parents  There were also another set of responses that were quite clearly mocking the woman and Dirk for this "low class" behavior of this very wealthy couple.

 

And with something like this, there is always a murky place in the middle between appropriate and inappropriate behaviors. I think the main issue I have with the article is that I don't think there is a hard and fast rule here, but I do think it is worth asking ourselves questions about the impact of our words (and images) on other people. 

 

See I read that and thought using foil for heated meals eaten later is totally normal. (I'm not black but have black-ish(?) family) but isn't this how everyone transports these kinds of meals????

[SuperSpreader]

We have entered the food zone.

 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

37 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said:

 

See I read that and thought using foil for heated meals eaten later is totally normal. (I'm not black but have black-ish(?) family) but isn't this how everyone transports these kinds of meals????

I took foil wrapped paper plates of Thanksgiving and Christmas dinner into work back when I worked at blockbuster. It’s not a black exclusive thing. It’s not a poor exclusive thing. It is a convenience thing. Nothing to clean up after. 

[mclumber1]

To be honest I've never liked leftovers.  I think it partly has to do with growing up with 3 other siblings and there never actually being any leftovers after a meal.  My wife thinks I'm strange, and sometimes offended that I don't want to keep leftover food from a big meal. 

[SuperSpreader]

8 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

I took foil wrapped paper plates of Thanksgiving and Christmas dinner into work back when I worked at blockbuster. It’s not a black exclusive thing. It’s not a poor exclusive thing. It is a convenience thing. Nothing to clean up after. 

 

This just makes me feel like journalists were inventing controversy in the @sblfilms story. Or they already had an axe to grind about the player being married to a black woman.