What’s ‘digital blackface?’ And why is it wrong when White people use it?

[Remarkableriots]

Coming to the rescue!

[TheShader]

2 minutes ago, Remarkableriots said:

Coming to the rescue!

Total sidenote, but Jack Black definitely proved himself worthy during quarantine. Unlike all the celebrities crying into their phones on selfie mode, he just went and lived his best quarantine life. And not in a 'I'm gonna rent a private island to have my birthday party' kind of way, but a 'Fuck it, I'm gonna have fun with whatever I have sitting around the house' kinda way.

 

My dude is an icon.

[thewhyteboar]

Too many gifs (hard gee; I’m not a pervert) can be annoying. But the Gen Z thing of staring at the camera with text on screen is just baffling. Darn kids. 

[SaysWho?]

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but the article seems to talk more about using GIFs with black people as a caricature, not about stopping using GIFs with black people completely.

 

Because stuff like this:

 

I've never found to be a caricature. Crying Jordan too. In fact, Crying Jordan is perfect when you're making a March Madness bracket and it gets fucked up early.

 

 

Maybe I'm wrong about that. Stuff like that is akin to something like this for me:

 

 

Something like "Ain't nobody got time for that" seemed in a different sphere than "You hate to see it, but more importantly, you love to see it," or the guy walking into a burning room or something like Keagan-Michael Peele's "Holy shit!" What say you?

[SuperSpreader]

[AbsolutSurgen]

When people start taking these kind of authors seriously, I am convinced your country is doomed.

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

20 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

When people start taking these kind of authors seriously, I am convinced your country is doomed.

 

 

I'd rather this country be "doomed" for at least giving some contemplation for issues like this being raised than to flippantly handwave it away from my pedestal of privilege.

 

If that means that this country is doomed, then so be it.

[Keyser_Soze]

Quote

If you’re Black and you’ve shared such images online, you get a pass.

 

Looks like I'm good to go. Sorry white people!

[AbsolutSurgen]

18 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

I'd rather this country be "doomed" for at least giving some contemplation for issues like this being raised than to flippantly handwave it away from my pedestal of privilege.

 

If this means that this country is doomed, then so be it.

I'll now research all memes to ensure I don't post any that contain anyone less privileged than myself.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

1 minute ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I'll now research all memes to ensure I don't post any that contain anyone less privileged than myself.

 

That's definitely a positive start!

 

Or you could just not post any at all and that'd ABSOLUTELY PERFECT! 

[AbsolutSurgen]

1 minute ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

That's definitely a positive start!

 

Or you could just not post any at all and that'd ABSOLUTELY PERFECT! 

Now, you're asking too much.

[CitizenVectron]

40 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

When people start taking these kind of authors seriously, I am convinced your country is doomed.

 

 

Obviously things can always be taken too far, but why the opposition to introspection and the desire to avoid offending others? Again, we aren't talking about government preventing you from offending others (in the form of reducing free speech, etc), we are talking about choosing to not offend, even if you have the right to. I'm not saying you ascribe to that sort of belief (that any attempt to reduce offensiveness is a form of censorship/wokeness), but it's something that is big in the right-wing, and demonstrates a total lack of empathy.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

2 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but the article seems to talk more about using GIFs with black people as a caricature, not about stopping using GIFs with black people completely.

It did seem to ask that question, but both in the beginning and the end of the article seemed to settle on white people should only meme using white people. so yeah, you can’t even use the Chappell”you hate to see it, but more importantly, you love to see it.” if you’re not black. 

 

They suggested white people use Taylor swift for a sassy meme. But since I’m a man I guess that wouldn’t be right either. I should also do research to ensure the subject is also straight, cis, agnostic, without kids, overweight, average height, middle class, and votes Democrat, instead of just “does this convey what I want to convey, likely even better than my words can alone.”

 

am I no longer allowed to find a role by a black actor to be iconic, relatable, and/or quotable? Maybe not as this article reminds me somewhat of the same people who went to social media saying white people weren’t allowed to watch black Panther Wakanda forever in theaters. 
 

it feels like there’s a concerted effort to create more segregation in the name of ending racism. Which feels odd to me. But whatever, I just want to know what the goal is. What are we trying to achieve? I thought it would be where I’m not making decisions based on race, gender, or any other orientation. 

[Reputator]

I will say, unless you force users such as in this community to disclose their race, it's hard to know if they're engaging in "digital blackface."

 

The safer notion is to block all stereotypical gifs.

 

Though how to even define that is....still not perfect.

[AbsolutSurgen]

7 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

Obviously things can always be taken too far, but why the opposition to introspection and the desire to avoid offending others? Again, we aren't talking about government preventing you from offending others (in the form of reducing free speech, etc), we are talking about choosing to not offend, even if you have the right to. I'm not saying you ascribe to that sort of belief (that any attempt to reduce offensiveness is a form of censorship/wokeness), but it's something that is big in the right-wing, and demonstrates a total lack of empathy.

This article isn't about not offending people, it is about redefining something as unacceptable behaviour and/or racism.

[TheLeon]

3 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

Something like "Ain't nobody got time for that" seemed in a different sphere than "You hate to see it, but more importantly, you love to see it," or the guy walking into a burning room or something like Keagan-Michael Peele's "Holy shit!" What say you?

If I post

in response to this thread, it’s probably better than if I used someone who went viral from a news interview. It’s a professional actor from something that aired on network TV, so that feels like fair game to me. 
 

But if I’m understanding this concept correctly, I’m still using a black man as a prop, or as a representation of myself, and that’s not OK. I don’t want to mock this concept entirely, but I don’t fully get it. 
 

Luckily, I’ve chosen an avatar that accurately represents me. 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

2 minutes ago, Reputator said:

I will say, unless you force users such as in this community to disclose their race, it's hard to know if they're engaging in "digital blackface."

 

The safer notion is to block all stereotypical gifs.

 

Though how to even define that is....still not perfect.

the way the article paints it, it’s pretty binary. There is no acceptable meme a non person of color can use where the subject is a person of color. And since I doubt we can limit the usage of memes and emoji and other gifs based on race or any other factor they should all just be removed and forbidden. I don’t even know if there is even a color for emojis that isn’t either adopted by or historically used as some insult descriptor for a group. Like yellow having often been used to refer to Chinese and other people of Asian descent in a negative way. 

[Bjomesphat]

Just don't use gifs that are stereotyping a marginalized group, whether intentionally or not.

 

I think this is a good example of a gif that was everywhere on gaming forums years back.

 

And should definitely not be used anymore, even though I've seen it pretty recently which is how I was reminded of it.

[Reputator]

6 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

the way the article paints it, it’s pretty binary. There is no acceptable meme a non person of color can use where the subject is a person of color. And since I doubt we can limit the usage of memes and emoji and other gifs based on race or any other factor they should all just be removed and forbidden. I don’t even know if there is even a color for emojis that isn’t either adopted by or historically used as some insult descriptor for a group. Like yellow having often been used to refer to Chinese and other people of Asian descent in a negative way. 

 

This is the slippery slope I was talking about earlier. I'm not going to argue whether or not what you say is the right thing to do, but I will say those who decide its offensive will have a pretty hopeless battle trying to convince the world they can't use expressions from non-whites.

 

I guess it could happen for a different reason, like the use of GIFs in general dropping in popularity.

[SaysWho?]

Also, is there any consensus? We've barely had any black users comment on this in any significant way, and I'm curious if this is something that's been thought about or if this is a new idea even for them. @Keyser_Soze can actually, literally be the judge as to what GIFs are okay.  

 

I always viewed using GIFs as a compliment and that the person in it was funny, whereas minstrel shows were made to exaggerate and ridicule what white people saw as features of black people. 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

22 minutes ago, Bjomesphat said:

Just don't use gifs that are stereotyping a marginalized group, whether intentionally or not.

 

I think this is a good example of a gif that was everywhere on gaming forums years back.

 

And should definitely not be used anymore, even though I've seen it pretty recently which is how I was reminded of it.

So here’s my questions. Was it being used to be racist and demeaning? Is the reason it is not acceptable because in the past this depiction was always used to be racist? Once something has been used to demean or be racist is it always so forever regardless of usage? 
 

if I saw a fight or the beginnings of one, say two big companies decided for whatever reason they were going to get into a Twitter pissing match with each other, and the very thought of it was so exciting to me and that gif was the first thing in my mind for exactly how I was feeling in that moment; does that make me racist that I didn’t think of some giddy white guy image first? 

[Spork3245]

I honestly don't care about the color of someone's skin in a meaningless meme. If that meme is mocking that persons skin color/race/whatever, then that's not cool, of course. If that memes make someone feel offended, that's also not cool, of course. I'd argue those things are obvious and don't need an article to explain them. However, is someone getting offended by the "ain't nobody got time for that" lady? Is kekw upsetting people from Spain? Is there a group of inbreds getting upset whenever "catch me outside, how 'bout that" is posted? To me, it's just people doing funny shit that has nothing to do with race. I swear, articles like this is why pricks like DeSantis get votes.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

I’d hate to see the writer of this article find out about that Antonio Banderas reaction gif that’s been reskinned with video game characters of every other race. Because it’s not about the iconic performance. It’s about co-opting the racial identity and heritage of the actor. 

[Keyser_Soze]

I think there is a lot of misinterpreting the idea of the article.

 

The digital blackface is if a white person uses something that really only comes from a black person not that a black person is in the gif.

 

Like if the gif was some black guy saying, "Sup my n*nja" then there's no reason for a white person to use it. The article goes into "Nobody ain't got time for this" which also is something a white person would not say and it was so normalized as funny no one really stopped to think is this funny because of the black lady?

 

Someone said the Chapelle "Ya hate to see it" which I don't think is a digital blackface because there is nothing stereotypical about it.

And since people are really going off the deep end to be offended by this, it's a gif so it's not like a blind joke there's literally a picture of the person in the joke you're using.

 

Now the "outrage" here has also extended into "I can't do this this this?" and yeah if person of color came up to you and said, "Please don't do this / say this" you probably would say, "Sure I won't" well I hope you would anyway, otherwise you're just an asshole.

[AbsolutSurgen]

8 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

I think there is a lot of misinterpreting the idea of the article.

 

The digital blackface is if a white person uses something that really only comes from a black person not that a black person is in the gif.

 

Like if the gif was some black guy saying, "Sup my n*nja" then there's no reason for a white person to use it. The article goes into "Nobody ain't got time for this" which also is something a white person would not say and it was so normalized as funny no one really stopped to think is this funny because of the black lady?

 

Someone said the Chapelle "Ya hate to see it" which I don't think is a digital blackface because there is nothing stereotypical about it.

And since people are really going off the deep end to be offended by this, it's a gif so it's not like a blind joke there's literally a picture of the person in the joke you're using.

 

Now the "outrage" here has also extended into "I can't do this this this?" and yeah if person of color came up to you and said, "Please don't do this / say this" you probably would say, "Sure I won't" well I hope you would anyway, otherwise you're just an asshole.

No.  Someone finding something offensive doesn't necessarily make it wrong.

 

There are a large group of people who find "Drag Storytime" offensive,  and they are telling others that they find it offensive.  Are the hosts of those events assholes for not listening to them? I would argue, clearly not.

[Spork3245]

14 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

The article goes into "Nobody ain't got time for this" which also is something a white person would not say and it was so normalized as funny no one really stopped to think is this funny because of the black lady?

 

I read the article, and this is where I disagree. It's not funny because she's black, her reaction and what she said was funny. Was "catch me outside, how about that?" funny because she was white? Would it be racist to laugh at it if she were black?

[Bjomesphat]

8 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

So here’s my questions. Was it being used to be racist and demeaning? Is the reason it is not acceptable because in the past this depiction was always used to be racist? Once something has been used to demean or be racist is it always so forever regardless of usage? 
 

if I saw a fight or the beginnings of one, say two big companies decided for whatever reason they were going to get into a Twitter pissing match with each other, and the very thought of it was so exciting to me and that gif was the first thing in my mind for exactly how I was feeling in that moment; does that make me racist that I didn’t think of some giddy white guy image first? 

 

No I don't think the use had any racist intentions. And honestly, I wouldn't call somebody out for using it or anything, but I do think it perpetuates certain harmful stereotypes when it's just used for laughs by white people.

 

39 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

I honestly don't care about the color of someone's skin in a meaningless meme. If that meme is mocking that persons skin color/race/whatever, then that's not cool, of course. If that memes make someone feel offended, that's also not cool, of course. I'd argue those things are obvious and don't need an article to explain them. However, is someone getting offended by the "ain't nobody got time for that" lady? Is kekw upsetting people from Spain? Is there a group of inbreds getting upset whenever "catch me outside, how 'bout that" is posted? To me, it's just people doing funny shit that has nothing to do with race. I swear, articles like this is why pricks like DeSantis get votes.

 

I wouldn't consider people from Spain and white inbreds to be marginalized groups though. Just like you can do a stereotypical italian accent talking about pasta, and mamma mia, that no one will bat an eye at because that type of language hasn't been used to oppress and marginalize people.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

16 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

The article goes into "Nobody ain't got time for this" which also is something a white person would not say and it was so normalized as funny no one really stopped to think is this funny because of the black lady?

“White trash” from certain areas of the country definitely talk like that. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

Quote

"Those are most effective, because White people are so boring", she says.

 

[Spork3245]

1 minute ago, Bjomesphat said:

I wouldn't consider people from Spain and white inbreds to be marginalized groups though. Just like you can do a stereotypical italian accent talking about pasta, and mamma mia, that no one will bat an eye at because that type of language hasn't been used to oppress and marginalize people.

 

Right, and that's where it becomes fucking stupid. If it's not okay to make fun of X it shouldn't be okay to make fun of Y for the same reasons because they're not a minority. And no, I'm not saying "I want to make fun of everyone!", I'm saying it shouldn't be okay for anyone if it's "racist".

[AbsolutSurgen]

7 minutes ago, Bjomesphat said:

 

No I don't think the use had any racist intentions. And honestly, I wouldn't call somebody out for using it or anything, but I do think it perpetuates certain harmful stereotypes when it's just used for laughs by white people.

 

 

I wouldn't consider people from Spain and white inbreds to be marginalized groups though. Just like you can do a stereotypical italian accent talking about pasta, and mamma mia, that no one will bat an eye at because that type of language hasn't been used to oppress and marginalize people.

I thought Americans generally felt Hispanic people were non-white and were part of a marginalized group? 

[Bjomesphat]

2 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I thought Americans generally felt Hispanic people were non-white and were part of a marginalized group? 

 

Latin America, sure. I would say people from Spain are white Europeans though.

[Jwheel86]

You may all continue to use disabled memes. I pardon thee. 

 

That said I think it is important to ask does this author speak for the group? Few years ago a group tried to push non disabled people to say "differently abled" or "extra abled", and the disabled community was furious that this group was trying to speak for all of us and pushing something we did not want. 

[Bjomesphat]

10 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

 

Right, and that's where it becomes fucking stupid. If it's not okay to make fun of X it shouldn't be okay to make fun of Y for the same reasons because they're not a minority. And no, I'm not saying "I want to make fun of everyone!", I'm saying it shouldn't be okay for anyone if it's "racist".

 

Sure in an ideal world that would be great. But there's a reason why someone calling you a cracker will likely just bounce off of you versus someone using the n-word against a black person. There's no meaningful history of oppression against white Americans with effects still felt today.

[Spork3245]

6 minutes ago, Bjomesphat said:

 

Sure in an ideal world that would be great. But there's a reason why someone calling you a cracker will likely just bounce off of you versus someone using the n-word against a black person. There's no meaningful history of oppression against white Americans with effects still felt today.

 

Maybe both are offensive and one is just worse than the other?

Also, that example is of something that is directly and intentionally racist, which I already commented about. This thread is about using "ain't nobody got time for that lady" being racist and the equivalent of black face.