Movies James Gunn sacked from GotG 3, Disney severs ties due to previous "offensive material"

[Wild]

58 minutes ago, Reputator said:

 

I don't know that there's really any difference (in that you could make racist jokes and not be a racist), but as a society we just decided that racist/homophobic jokes cross the line.

 

I guess the cast and crew of Friends should never be hired in Hollywood ever again then, either. Social attitudes on what is acceptable change. We have to change with them. If we do we shouldn't be punished for it. If someone was once a racist douchebag but becomes someone else as they grow up we should embrace their personal improvement, not hold their past like an anvil around their neck.

 

Take Robert Byrd, who started out his life as a member of the Ku Klux Klan, got into politics in the 50s and had an personal epiphany in the 80s. When his son died he realized that any man, no matter their skin color, could grieve at the depths that he was and it changed him completely. From that point forward he became a champion of civil rights. When he died a few years ago the NAACP called him a "great friend" and mourned his loss.

 

James Gunn, by all accounts, grew up as a person. He changed his humor, his attitude, and his treatment of others. We shouldn't be punishing him for his past behavior, but recognizing his personal growth. Gunn is an example of what we need so many other people to do in this world.

[MarSolo]

Donald Trump deliberately walked in on little girls as they were getting changed during pageants and still became President of the United States.

 

We need to stop holding people to a higher standard than the President.

[skillzdadirecta]

1 hour ago, Wild said:

 

I guess the cast and crew of Friends should never be hired in Hollywood ever again then, either. Social attitudes on what is acceptable change. We have to change with them. If we do we shouldn't be punished for it. If someone was once a racist douchebag but becomes someone else as they grow up we should embrace their personal improvement, not hold their past like an anvil around their neck.

 

Take Robert Byrd, who started out his life as a member of the Ku Klux Klan, got into politics in the 50s and had an personal epiphany in the 80s. When his son died he realized that any man, no matter their skin color, could grieve at the depths that he was and it changed him completely. From that point forward he became a champion of civil rights. When he died a few years ago the NAACP called him a "great friend" and mourned his loss.

 

James Gunn, by all accounts, grew up as a person. He changed his humor, his attitude, and his treatment of others. We shouldn't be punishing him for his past behavior, but recognizing his personal growth. Gunn is an example of what we need so many other people to do in this world.

 

So which is it with Gunn exactly? Should we be applauding him for growing up and letting go of his weird preoccupation with child rape and pedo-humor and forgive him since he's now a "changed man"? Or should we not be making a big deal of those jokes at all and leave him alone since, because he was just making harmless "jokes", there was nothing for him to be sorry for anyway?

[Kal-El814]

10 hours ago, Wild said:

James Gunn, by all accounts, grew up as a person. He changed his humor, his attitude, and his treatment of others. We shouldn't be punishing him for his past behavior, but recognizing his personal growth. Gunn is an example of what we need so many other people to do in this world.

 

I don't have strong feelings about James Gunn one way or the other. But to play devil's advocate for a second...

 

So hew grew as a person. So what? What of value are we losing by him getting sacked by Disney? There are tons of other talented directors who weren't 40 year old edgelords that got a kick out of rustling jimmies by saying stupid shit about pedophilia. And let's be clear, a lot of what he said wasn't "a joke," it was sent out into the interwebs with the express purpose of douchebaggery.

 

/devil's advocate

 

I'm honestly curious at the public's willingness to accept some people back into the fold. Again, Gunn's shtick was moronic but it was old, it was public, and the circumstances under which it was brought back to light were deliberately disingenuous. But with guys like whoever it was at FX saying how he misses Louie CK and his show... fucking why? He's a great comic but he's not so special as to warrant the public adulation and fiscal windfall tat a comeback tour or show is going to give him. If you're a grown ass man in a position of power abusing that to whip your dick out in front of people who think that non-cooperation is going to tank their career... it's fucking gross that someone is looking forward to his "redemption."

 

/sidebar

 

I'll see myself out.

[Joe]

Not that I disagree with your other points, but "he's not so special"  is subjective as fuck. He's considered by a significant portion of people as one of the greatest comics of all time.

[Kal-El814]

8 minutes ago, Jose said:

Not that I disagree with your other points, but "he's not so special"  is subjective as fuck. He's considered by a significant portion of people as one of the greatest comics of all time.

He's a spectacular comedian and was one of my favorites. Nobody is so special as to earn a "comeback" from multiple sexual assaults.

[Reputator]

2 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

He's a spectacular comedian and was one of my favorites. Nobody is so special as to earn a "comeback" from multiple sexual assaults.

 

That's a bad comparison anyway.

[Joe]

Multiple sexual assaults? Wat.

[Kal-El814]

24 minutes ago, Reputator said:

 

That's a bad comparison anyway.

 

Agreed.

 

24 minutes ago, Jose said:

Multiple sexual assaults? Wat.

 

He whipped it out and beat off in front of multiple women. What else would you call it?

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Jose said:

Multiple sexual assaults? Wat.

 

What do you call coercing a person to watch you masturbate? I guess maybe sexual harassment? Whatever it is, that’s what he did.

[Joe]

21 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

 

What do you call coercing a person to watch you masturbate? I guess maybe sexual harassment? Whatever it is, that’s what he did.

 

There has to be physical contact for there to be assault.

[HGLatinBoy]

Any more news? scrolling through all the comments is boring

[ALIEN-gunner]

Chris Pratt is probably still praying.

[skillzdadirecta]

1 hour ago, Jose said:

 

There has to be physical contact for there to be assault.

Does it? Jerking off in front of a bunch of people, particularly children isnt assault? It should be if it isn't.

[Wild]

5 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

 

So which is it with Gunn exactly? Should we be applauding him for growing up and letting go of his weird preoccupation with child rape and pedo-humor and forgive him since he's now a "changed man"? Or should we not be making a big deal of those jokes at all and leave him alone since, because he was just making harmless "jokes", there was nothing for him to be sorry for anyway?

 

Both? He made jokes. They were terrible, and if he was still making them there wouldn't be any problem with Disney firing him since his actions as an employee reflect on them. But the jokes came before he was a Disney employee. They knew he was when they hired him at that point and didn't care until it became a political issue. In the meantime, he learned to be a better person and how dumb those jokes are, which is something we should applaud. Anytime someone improves as  a person we should take them at face value when their actions match their words (and Gunn's do).

 

These are not incongruent positions to hold.

[ALIEN-gunner]

He was in his 40's when he made those comments. Even teenagers know not to say things like that. How much more growing does he need? 

[johnny]

What Louis CK did is way different than what Gunn did. It’s a lot easier for people to forgive you over jokes you made rather than actual sexual harassment. 

[skillzdadirecta]

2 hours ago, Wild said:

 

Both? He made jokes. They were terrible, and if he was still making them there wouldn't be any problem with Disney firing him since his actions as an employee reflect on them. But the jokes came before he was a Disney employee. They knew he was when they hired him at that point and didn't care until it became a political issue. In the meantime, he learned to be a better person and how dumb those jokes are, which is something we should applaud. Anytime someone improves as  a person we should take them at face value when their actions match their words (and Gunn's do).

 

These are not incongruent positions to hold.

*bookmarked for the next time a Republican's history of racist/homophobic/misogynistic comments come to surface.

[skillzdadirecta]

2 hours ago, Wild said:

 

Both? He made jokes. They were terrible, and if he was still making them there wouldn't be any problem with Disney firing him since his actions as an employee reflect on them. But the jokes came before he was a Disney employee. They knew he was when they hired him at that point and didn't care until it became a political issue. In the meantime, he learned to be a better person and how dumb those jokes are, which is something we should applaud. Anytime someone improves as  a person we should take them at face value when their actions match their words (and Gunn's do).

 

These are not incongruent positions to hold.

Btw, they are absolutely incongruent positions to hold because if his jokes were simply "just jokes" and shouldn't have been judged as being offensive or out of the mainstream then what exactly did he need to apologize for or grow from? You cant have it both ways.

[skillzdadirecta]

5 hours ago, Jose said:

Not that I disagree with your other points, but "he's not so special"  is subjective as fuck. He's considered by a significant portion of people as one of the greatest comics of all time.

So is Dane Cook. What difference does it make?

[Joe]

Because Kal said he wasnt that special.

[CastlevaniaNut18]

He's definitely not so special that people should overlook his abhorrent behavior. Louis C K can go fuck himself. In private. With no one else to watch. 

[Kal-El814]

14 hours ago, Jose said:

Because Kal said he wasnt that special.

I didn’t mean he’s not particularly special, again, he’s an incredible comedian. I meant that he’s not so special as to warrant “redemption” or a “comeback” from his behavior. I don’t even know what that means. He sexually harassed a bunch of women. How does one “come back” from that? A shitty apology and a rad comedy special? Fuck that and fuck him. He’s slime. I don’t know how else to say it. I want to see the death of a culture that tolerates sexual harassment and the gross application of patriarchal power. The least I can do is not give fuckwads like him attention (other than calling him out on his shit) and beyond that, money or views. I loved his comedy but I’m done with him.

[Jason]

21 hours ago, Kal-El814 said:

I don't have strong feelings about James Gunn one way or the other. But to play devil's advocate for a second...

 

So hew grew as a person. So what? What of value are we losing by him getting sacked by Disney? There are tons of other talented directors who weren't 40 year old edgelords that got a kick out of rustling jimmies by saying stupid shit about pedophilia. And let's be clear, a lot of what he said wasn't "a joke," it was sent out into the interwebs with the express purpose of douchebaggery. 

 

/devil's advocate

 

It'd be one thing to fire Gunn over sending those tweets, etc right now, but what you're suggesting is that basically that if you've ever made a mistake, that's it, your life deserves to be over if anyone ever finds out about it.

 

Louis C.K. isn't a great comparison point to Gunn IMO because while he does seem to have stopped forcing women to watch him masturbate and learned from it, it also directly affected other people, so there's more urgency to the thought of "well what if he actually HASN'T learned his lesson?"

[Kal-El814]

57 minutes ago, Jason said:

It'd be one thing to fire Gunn over sending those tweets, etc right now, but what you're suggesting is that basically that if you've ever made a mistake, that's it, your life deserves to be over if anyone ever finds out about it.

 

Louis C.K. isn't a great comparison point to Gunn IMO because while he does seem to have stopped forcing women to watch him masturbate and learned from it, it also directly affected other people, so there's more urgency to the thought of "well what if he actually HASN'T learned his lesson?"

 

I agree the CK to Gunn comparison was not especially good, I was just rolling at the time and mashed post.

 

That said, for my devil’s advocate rant... I’m not saying people that fuck up should never work again, ever. That’s not rational or reasonable. I don’t really know what to do about it.

 

To keep it with Gunn for a second, the remarks and behavior were stupid but I wouldn’t expect him to be blackballed, and I think his firing in of itself was probably a reach. So he gets sacked from GotG which sucks, since I liked those movies, but Marvel has this down to a science and GotG3 will be fine. Gunn will be fine.

 

With someone like CK... I suppose I cannot begrudge him specifically for going back out and doing what he loves and knows even if I wish he’d stay out of the public eye forever. I can, however, give shit to someone like that FX guy I mentioned who “miss” Louie and his show. That’s what I meant when I said he’s not THAT special. NOBODY should be special enough for someone else in a position of power to “miss” someone who copped to multiple instances of sexual harassment. I don’t want Louie to die in a fire or never hold another job again. But I think that holding powerful people accountable for egregious abuses of power like what Louie did is absolutely “worth” a lack of “redemption,” for him, whatever that means. Again I wouldn’t want that to legally enforceable or anything, I just... wish he went away forever.

 

I also think we need to be clear about what a “mistake” is. What Louie did isn’t a “mistake.” He was a borderline or straight up serial sexual harasser. One doesn’t do that “mistakenly.” I’ve said stupid things to women. I’m not expecting anyone to be perfect.

 

Anyway I’m unfocused and rambling. I don’t even know what I want, I just get bummed out that there are dudes in power out there willing to go out on a limb to talk about them missing someone who has been “gone” for what feels like 15 minutes.

[Mercury33]

I don’t feel like reading this whole thread but exactly what evidence is there of him “growing”? Did he actually grow or is he just smart and knows what he said isn’t a good look and has learned to say the right thing to cover it up?

 

For the most part people should be given second chances. But when rape and pedophilia is involved? Nah, you can fuck right off. 

[TwinIon]

2 minutes ago, Mercury33 said:

I don’t feel like reading this whole thread but exactly what evidence is there of him “growing”? Did he actually grow or is he just smart and knows what he said isn’t a good look and has learned to say the right thing to cover it up?

I suppose the evidence of him growing would be that he hasn't been a provocateur making bad jokes for years, certainly not since he's apologized, and that those around him have been unequivocally supportive of him. Unlike many of these cases we're talking about, it's not like we're dismissing the experiences people he hurt. There is no victim here. I'm not sure what more would be required in the case of bad jokes a decade ago.

 

2 minutes ago, Mercury33 said:

For the most part people should be given second chances. But when rape and pedophilia is involved? Nah, you can fuck right off. 

I think here we can agree. If there was any rape or pedophilia involved, sure, put him away and toss the key.

 

[Kal-El814]

7 minutes ago, TwinIon said:

I think here we can agree. If there was any rape or pedophilia involved, sure, put him away and toss the key.

Roman Polanski got kicked out of the Academy 3 months ago for raping a girl in 1977, and last year he was picked to chair the committee (possibly the wrong terms, whatever) for the French equivalent of the Oscars, so I don’t know that we’re quite at the point where the industry itself agrees that people should be contemporaneously held accountable for their actions. Or again, we’ve got network executives responding to interview questions about Louis CK talking about how they’re missed.

 

So “we” might agree, but people in positions of power clearly do not.

[Joe]

 

The genius of our time.

 

May he rest in peace.

[Wild]

16 hours ago, Mercury33 said:

I don’t feel like reading this whole thread but exactly what evidence is there of him “growing”? Did he actually grow or is he just smart and knows what he said isn’t a good look and has learned to say the right thing to cover it up?

 

For the most part people should be given second chances. But when rape and pedophilia is involved? Nah, you can fuck right off. 

 

He didn't rape anyone, nor do anything to any little kids. They were just jokes in bad taste. And he stopped and grew up, apologizing years ago for his behavior and promising to improve his behavior, which was followed up by improving his behavior.

[Wild]

On 8/12/2018 at 9:09 PM, skillzdadirecta said:

*bookmarked for the next time a Republican's history of racist/homophobic/misogynistic comments come to surface.

 

There is a difference between jokes and belief statements. Are Gene Wilder and Mel Brooks racists for making Blazing Saddles?

 

Behavior after the fact matters as well. If someone owns up to and fully renounces their former beliefs, then backs it up with actions, I will support their growth. Their politics doesn't matter.

[number305]

42 minutes ago, Wild said:

 

There is a difference between jokes and belief statements. Are Gene Wilder and Mel Brooks racists for making Blazing Saddles?

 

Behavior after the fact matters as well. If someone owns up to and fully renounces their former beliefs, then backs it up with actions, I will support their growth. Their politics doesn't matter.

So honest question.  Did Gunn grow, or did he clean up his act because he started getting bigger gigs in the movie business?

 

[Greatoneshere]

33 minutes ago, number305 said:

So honest question.  Did Gunn grow, or did he clean up his act because he started getting bigger gigs in the movie business?

 

 

He clearly cleaned up his act because he cleaned it up before he was ever considered for Guardians of the Galaxy by Disney/Marvel. His previous two films, Slither and Super, are small/indie hard-R rated films so I don't think he was getting any bigger at the time he apologized, etc. You can also clearly see his evolution as a person in his films. If you go from Tromeo + Juliet to Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2, there is clearly an evolution in there, at least as an artist, that I presume may also reflect on him as a human being, which is backed up by all those around him, men and women alike.

 

Let's be very clear here, James Gunn didn't sexually assault anyone. He committed no actual sexual misconduct on anyone (as far as we know). He was doing a bunch of weird, "edgy" shit, no question, between bad jokes about rape and pedophilia (jokes, not actual actions), weird blog articles about hottest female superheroes he'd want to fuck and then objectifying them, and weird (but not for Hollywood) costume parties (presumably all with adults, just dressing like kids in some cases . . . ). 

 

This is not the same as actual sexual misconduct, just to be clear. Weird shit and bad jokes:  worthy of shame? Perhaps. He's apologized repeteadly now. A fireable offense? Debateable. Worthy of scorn and derision at the current James Gunn? No. 

[Keyser_Soze]

It's important to differentiate what he said from what he did.

 

Did / Does he molest children?

 

If yes: Be mad and never forgive him.

If no: He's worth being forgiven.

 

I posted this video before but no one said anything. Pedophilia is never funny, so is this video funny?

 

 

Perhaps you didn't like it but is it a well told joke or a poorly told joke?

Maybe some would find it humorous while others would be offended.

If you didn't like it should we lock up David Cross and throw away the key?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Keyser_Soze said:

I posted this video before but no one said anything. Pedophilia is never funny, so is this video funny?

 

 

Perhaps you didn't like it but is it a well told joke or a poorly told joke?

Maybe some would find it humorous while others would be offended.

If you didn't like it should we lock up David Cross and throw away the key?

 

The clip is not a joke about pedophilia, and certainly not a joke about being a pedophile.