Movies James Gunn sacked from GotG 3, Disney severs ties due to previous "offensive material"

[The def star]

18 minutes ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

There are plenty of comedians who don't use pedophilia and rape as part of their routines. What in the actual fuck?

And there are those that do. Comedy is comedy. It doesn't always have to be clean. It can be raunchy, dirty and even offensive. It's not supposed to be taken seriously.

[CastlevaniaNut18]

1 minute ago, The def star said:

And there are those that do. Comedy is comedy. It doesn't always have to be clean. It can be raunchy, dirty and even offensive. It's not supposed to be taken seriously.

Backtracking. Good work.

[The def star]

Just now, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

Backtracking. Good work.

?

[CastlevaniaNut18]

5 minutes ago, The def star said:

?

"you wouldn't like a lot of comedians, if you don't think rape and pedophilia is funny"

 

"wtf, what comedians use rape and pedophilia are part of their routines?"

 

"some do"

 

Please name all of these popular, many, many mainstream comedians who use rape and pedophilia as part of their routine. You made the claim. Even still, it's not funny and not appropriate. I have a dark sense of humor, but I'm not a sociopath. I don't care if it's a "joke." Some things aren't funny. Period. 

[skillzdadirecta]

3 minutes ago, The def star said:

?

You seemed to imply that a lot of comedians joke about rape and pedophlia... also, when was James Gunn a comedian? Did I miss something?

[The def star]

2 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

You seemed to imply that a lot of comedians joke about rape and pedophlia... also, when was James Gunn a comedian? Did I miss something?

A lot do and a lot don't. I guess maybe it's just the comedians that I like are usually raunchy. Old Eddie Murphy, George Carlin, Andrew Dice Clay etc. But comedy isn't one thing. Something funny doesn't always have to be clean for the whole family. I'm not trying to imply that you have to joke about rape or pedophilia to be funny just that we shouldn't get upset if some do. Take the Aristocrats joke. It's dirty as hell and it's a bad joke but it's still ajoke and should not be taken seriously. I supposed James Gunn is a writer and not an comdian but that doesn't mean he can't tell a joke if he wants to. 

[CastlevaniaNut18]

Raunchy comedy is fine. Not all comedy has to be "family friendly." I just said I have a pretty dark sense of humor, given the profession I work in. But most decent people have lines they don't cross. I'd have thought pedophilia and rape are a couple of them. There's a reason Eddie Murphy's early stuff wouldn't fly today and why you said "Old Eddie Murphy." 

 

Come on now.

[Guest]

The way in which we talk about things matters, even in the realm of jokes. I don’t want a culture in which victims of the most hideous crimes are told it’s OK to make light of their pain.

 

One of the great comedy routines of recent history is Tig Nataro’s set “alive” where she reveals that she has recently been diagnosed with cancer. The topic doesn’t make light of the sad and scary reality of breast cancer, it doesn’t belittle other women’s stories by making a joke of it. It’s a cathartic process of dealing with grief and anguish through an off kilter look at the process of realizing you might die. It’s a brilliant piece of comedy that deals with a difficult subject.

 

Every rape and pedophilia joke I’ve ever heard were immature and unfunny attempts to be prrovacative and shocking and the undercurrent of those jokes is that the topics really are no big deal and people need to be less uptight. It’s gross.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

Dave Chapelle had a funny joke about a super hero that needs to rape to activate his powers. He rapes to save, and saves more than he rapes. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

You know what use to bring down the house comedically and have 'em rolling in the aisles?  Blackface.

 

With that example, the case on whether what is considered to be "comedically acceptable" changes over time is closed.

[CastlevaniaNut18]

Yuuup. There's a reason Disney isn't going to be doing remakes of movies like Song of the South. Or why the Dumbo remake probably isn't going to have Jim Crow and his band of feathery brothers. 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

Anything can be funny, but that doesn't mean everyone will find it funny. 

[Bacon]

A lot of Obi-wan's ITT

[Greatoneshere]

2 hours ago, The def star said:

 

• Well if the other person you are referring is the one we all are thinking of, he is also bad with words and doesnt know the power of them The situation with Bautista is that his hearts in the right place but doesn't know how to go about it. My thing is that at least he's trying. How hard? Probably not hard enough but right now he is bringing more eyes to the James Gunn controversy 

 

But that's basically what sblfilms, SFLUFAN, and myself are saying. "Probably not hard enough". I agree with the rest of the substance of your post. I'm happy he did something but I'm disappointed he's not doing all he could do given how upset he seems to be. It's about what he's stated vs. what he's doing. Nothing more. This has nothing to do with what I would do in his position (I probably wouldn't be as upset to begin with, maybe) or that he needs to do more. All I've said is I think he could do more, he sounds like he wants more to happen, but won't take the next logical step of that thought process himself (or can't, but won't say why he can't). That's a fair criticism to me given someone in his position (plays perhaps the second or third most popular Guardians character and is a big hit within the MCU overall) and the hard ball they could play to get what they want in this situation. 

 

2 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I fully expect some users in this thread to put their money where THEIR mouths are and not support any Disney/Marvel/Pixar films or projects moving forward... you know, for morals and stuff.

 

But why? I'm not upset about this. Bautista is upset about this but isn't doing everything I think he could be doing given how upset he seems to be to me (see my post above). That's disingenuous, or at the very least disappointing and lazy. 

 

2 hours ago, Firewithin said:

https://www.shortlist.com/entertainment/exclusive-dave-bautista-interview-james-gunn-guardians-of-the-galaxy-firing-quit-twitter/368730

 

says hell quit or asked to be released if they dont use his script

 

This is fantastic news, if true, and I'd say I'm very happy if he means it (and Bautista has always been a genuine guy, so I believe him). I think you need Gunn the director, not just first draft of script of Gunn the writer, feels like a bit of a compromise given the shooting script, even in Gunn's hands, could have been very different than this first draft he just handed in but that is a legit promise he's making and maybe it makes Disney re-think things, who knows. 

 

2 hours ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

Eh, sorry, pedophilia is never funny. Rape is never funny. People who aren't sociopaths should understand that much. 

 

He should have known better. Sucks to be him, but if you haven't grown up by your 40s, you probably never will. 

 

While I otherwise totally agree, James Gunn himself has said the Guardians movies are literally about him having changed in his 40's and how he grew up (the arc of the characters in Guardians is the same). So he actually has changed and grown up, to the point actresses are defending him because he's the one who pushed them to come out about their own abuse.

 

James Gunn has become one of the kindest, nicest people in real life from the self-aware faux asshole he tried to be even until he was 40 and this firing feels unjustifiably punitive when you know his story, telling people it's wrong to change and become better because your past (with something pretty benign here) will haunt you forever.

 

1 hour ago, sblfilms said:

The way in which we talk about things matters, even in the realm of jokes. I don’t want a culture in which victims of the most hideous crimes are told it’s OK to make light of their pain.

 

While I agree (see SFLUFAN's comparison to blackface) with your post you can't deny that the entire point of comedy is to make light of pain. I've laughed at some pretty harsh jokes aimed at situations I very much relate to (being bullied when growing up, etc.) and the entire point of jokes that "make fun" of the bullied were often very funny to me, despite relating to it as a victim.

 

Like I said, I agree with you, and it's a very delicate line in comedy, and for me personally I like that we can be okay with making fun of anything, including myself and my pain. I think that's the entire point of comedy. 

 

But, there's comedy and then there's being mean-spirited or needlessly cruel, and I think it's usually easy to tell which is which. The whole point of 2000's "edgelord" humor was to be the latter, not the former, so I agree that I'm not sure it qualifies as comedy.

[Brick]

8 hours ago, SFLUFAN said:

Screw that noise and screw him.  Hell, if I'm a Disney executive right now, I'm having my attorneys comb through his contract thoroughly to see if any grounds could be discovered to fire his ass.

 

That would likely cause an even bigger uproar, and cause other stars to quit in protest if they fired Bautista for defending Gunn. Not a smart move.

 

If they don't rehire Gunn, which Disney should, what director is going to want to take over? Hell the stars could even half-ass their performances because Gunn was so integral to these movies, and it sounds like he was a joy to work with. When the stars' contracts are up, and it's time for renegotiations they could even decide to not renew and leave the MCU, whereas they might have stayed on if Gunn was rehired. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Each and every one of the Guardians is eminently replacable.

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, Brick said:

If they don't rehire Gunn, which Disney should, what director is going to want to take over?

The list is very long.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

2 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

The list is very long.

As is the one to replace the Guardians if it ever came to that.

[Brick]

19 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said:

Each and every one of the Guardians is eminently replacable.

 

Perhaps to you, someone who has admitted he doesn't really care all that much for the MCU. To many Chris Pratt is Star Lord, Dave Bautista is Drax, Zoe Saldana is Gamora, etc., etc.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

3 minutes ago, Brick said:

 

Perhaps to you, someone who has admitted he doesn't really care all that much for the MCU. To many Chris Pratt is Star Lord, Dave Bautista is Drax, Zoe Saldana is Gamora, etc., etc.

Want to take this one @sblfilms?

[Wild]

The MCU feels different when role changes occur. I still get annoyed at "next time baby" never happening. And Marvel looks set to pass on the mantles of superheroes Doctor Who style rather than the James Bond approach. They also chose to just disappear Jane Foster when Portman bailed.

[SaysWho?]

4 hours ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

Dave Chapelle had a funny joke about a super hero that needs to rape to activate his powers. He rapes to save, and saves more than he rapes. 

 

I remember that. The joke was that he had to tap the girls crotch area, and that he'd go up to one and ask if he could to activate his powers, and she'd go, "No, I'm sorry, what?" and he'd go, "Please, I have to do this quickly. There are lives at risk," and she'd go, "I don't think so," and then he rapes her but with the intent on saving the innocent people in the building. The logical train actually really impressed me.

 

The weird thing was I was watching this while my parents were visiting because I've never heard him use a rape joke before. My mom is staring stone-faced at the screen, and then the next batch of jokes comes on and she starts laughing. Then he ends with the Cosby jokes on the rape subject, and she just stares at the screen.

 

I asked her after what she thought of the special. "Oh, he's really funny! I mean, I can't laugh at rape jokes because I don't think rape is funny, but the rest was good."

 

God bless her.

[Remarkableriots]

6 hours ago, Brick said:

 

Perhaps to you, someone who has admitted he doesn't really care all that much for the MCU. To many Chris Pratt is Star Lord, Dave Bautista is Drax, Zoe Saldana is Gamora, etc., etc.

They already planned on having a new Guardians team after Vol 3 anyways.

[johnny]

Lol at recasting the entire guardians. If that happened they would just use completely different characters. 

[number305]

14 hours ago, Brick said:

 

That would likely cause an even bigger uproar, and cause other stars to quit in protest if they fired Bautista for defending Gunn. Not a smart move.

 

If they don't rehire Gunn, which Disney should, what director is going to want to take over? Hell the stars could even half-ass their performances because Gunn was so integral to these movies, and it sounds like he was a joy to work with. When the stars' contracts are up, and it's time for renegotiations they could even decide to not renew and leave the MCU, whereas they might have stayed on if Gunn was rehired. 

There would be a line around the block of directors wanting to work for Disney.  The money is too great.

 

Also (smart) actors can't half-ass performances.  Everything that gets released is on film forever - and is also an audition for future roles.  These actors would not put out sub-par work on purpose.

[skillzdadirecta]

8 hours ago, Remarkableriots said:

They already planned on having a new Guardians team after Vol 3 anyways.

There's a LOT of Guardians characters they can use... and Rocket and Groot are C.G.I. Changing there' voice actors wouldn't be too hard.

 

8 hours ago, johnny said:

Lol at recasting the entire guardians. If that happened they would just use completely different characters. 

 

You really think any of these guys are irreplaceable? After all the Batmen, Supermen, Spidermen and Hulks we've had over the years not to mention Dr. Whos, Sherlock Holmes' James Bonds' and Robin Hoods,  I don't see how anyone could possibly think ANY actor is irreplaceable in these types of roles. Hell with the exception of Robert Downey JR., Marvel deliberately casted so that they COULD replace the actors if they needed to. Their strategy has always been the characters are the stars, not the people playing them.

 

That being said, I'm sure Gunn will get rehired any day now and if he takes the job (He probably shouldn't to make a statement) no one will remember any of this. I think there is a lot of moral high-horsing going on in this thread though especially regarding how Bautista chose to voice his displeasure  which I'm sure his agents and representatives were NOT happy with. He is NOT an irreplaceable member of that franchise and his last appearance as the character showed him dying. Disney COULD just chose not bring him back so his statements were not nearly as cavalier and risk free as some of you guys seem to think. He pisses off the wrong person at Disney/Marvel and his option isn't renewed and he's on the Unemployment line with Gunn. 

[CastlevaniaNut18]

18 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

 

While I otherwise totally agree, James Gunn himself has said the Guardians movies are literally about him having changed in his 40's and how he grew up (the arc of the characters in Guardians is the same). So he actually has changed and grown up, to the point actresses are defending him because he's the one who pushed them to come out about their own abuse.

 

James Gunn has become one of the kindest, nicest people in real life from the self-aware faux asshole he tried to be even until he was 40 and this firing feels unjustifiably punitive when you know his story, telling people it's wrong to change and become better because your past (with something pretty benign here) will haunt you forever.

 

 

While I agree (see SFLUFAN's comparison to blackface) with your post you can't deny that the entire point of comedy is to make light of pain. I've laughed at some pretty harsh jokes aimed at situations I very much relate to (being bullied when growing up, etc.) and the entire point of jokes that "make fun" of the bullied were often very funny to me, despite relating to it as a victim.

 

Like I said, I agree with you, and it's a very delicate line in comedy, and for me personally I like that we can be okay with making fun of anything, including myself and my pain. I think that's the entire point of comedy. 

 

But, there's comedy and then there's being mean-spirited or needlessly cruel, and I think it's usually easy to tell which is which. The whole point of 2000's "edgelord" humor was to be the latter, not the former, so I agree that I'm not sure it qualifies as comedy.

While I don't fully agree with you, this is a better argument than the shitty one def star put forth. So thanks for that.  

 

It's a really, really fine line and "it makes me happy when little boys touch my silly place" isn't remotely funny and is so far over the line. 

[Greatoneshere]

2 minutes ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

While I don't fully agree with you, this is a better argument than the shitty one def star put forth. So thanks for that.  

 

It's a really, really fine line and "it makes me happy when little boys touch my silly place" isn't remotely funny and is so far over the line. 

 

I can't disagree with you there hah.

[CastlevaniaNut18]

2 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I can't disagree with you there hah.

It's comedy, so I can say anything, man. You stupid sand n*****, what building are you planning to blow up next? Oh, you don't like that? I'm a comedian, it was a joke, get a sense of humor.

 

 

[Greatoneshere]

1 minute ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

It's comedy, so I can say anything, man. You stupid sand n*****, what building are you planning to blow up next? Oh, you don't like that? I'm a comedian, it was a joke, get a sense of humor.

 

 

 

Right? Hah.

 

The intent and manner of the comedy being delivered also matters a lot too.

 

Yeah, I don't know what people mean when they say that about comedy like your example. I think the blackface comparison sort of ends the conversation.  

[CastlevaniaNut18]

People be dumb, I guess.

[Joe]

THE ARISTOCRATS

[Joe]

James Gunn's jokes were shitty, weird, and gross and he deserved the flack he got for them because it seemed like he was trying to get attention using a taboo topic more than actually trying to make a joke.

 

So I get all that 100%. What I think def star is trying to say is that a lot of comedians make pushing your limits of comfort as part of their routine. But it's a REALLY fine line, because if the jokes bomb, you come off as an unfunny, sick fuck. 

[The def star]

18 minutes ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

People be dumb, I guess.

Wow. I actually tried having a respectable conversation about my point of view on the subject and while I don't entirely agree with your opinion never once did I degrade your intelligence. I see what kind of person you are so I don't expect to reply to you any more. But I'll just post this as an example of my argument and not this

 

22 minutes ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

It's comedy, so I can say anything, man. You stupid sand n*****, what building are you planning to blow up next? Oh, you don't like that? I'm a comedian, it was a joke, get a sense of humor.

 

 

 

Theres a way to do comedy by pushing the envelope. Whether you agree that it's funny or not it was offensive for it's time and it's offensive now but it's comedy.

 

 

 

 

[CastlevaniaNut18]

Which is why you should probably stay away from certain topics, because they almost always fall on the side of you being an unfunny, sick fucker.