General Gaming Cyberpunk 2077: Phantom Liberty (PC/PS5/Xbox Series) - Information Thread, update: Update 2.1 "Overview" trailer and patch notes

[Amazatron]

The notice on OpenCritic's Cyberpunk 2077 page...

 

Please note: This game has significant disparities in performance, player experience, and review scores between the PC, next-gen consoles, Xbox One, and PS4 versions.

The OpenCritic team and several critics suspect that the developer, CD PROJEKT RED, intentionally sought to hide the true state of the game on Xbox One and PS4, with requirements such as only allowing pre-rendered game footage in reviews and not issuing review copies for PS4 and Xbox One versions.

This notice will be taken down in February 2021.

[legend]

39 minutes ago, Amazatron said:

The notice on OpenCritic's Cyberpunk 2077 page...

 

Please note: This game has significant disparities in performance, player experience, and review scores between the PC, next-gen consoles, Xbox One, and PS4 versions.

The OpenCritic team and several critics suspect that the developer, CD PROJEKT RED, intentionally sought to hide the true state of the game on Xbox One and PS4, with requirements such as only allowing pre-rendered game footage in reviews and not issuing review copies for PS4 and Xbox One versions.

This notice will be taken down in February 2021.

 

It's such a stupid decision to hide the disparities and release it in its form on last-gen consoles from a company that otherwise has really good practices with consumers. All they did was turn it into a much bigger issue and damage reception of the game.

[Fizzzzle]

I agree. They could have just outright said "hey guys, the PS4/Xbone versions look like shit, but play it if you want" and people would have undewrstood.

[Amazatron]

12 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

I agree. They could have just outright said "hey guys, the PS4/Xbone versions look like shit, but play it if you want" and people would have undewrstood.

 

There would still certainly be outrage, and justifiably so considering the game was announced for these platforms 8 years ago. But deceiving the consumer is just absolute scum.

[Fizzzzle]

1 minute ago, Amazatron said:

 

There would still certainly be outrage, and justifiably so considering the game was announced for these platforms 8 years ago. But deceiving the consumer is just absolute scum.

Yeah, I think if they had pivoted a year or two ago and said something like "the game is primarily being developed for next gen, but we will have PS4/Xbone versions," I don't think it would have been such a big deal. Nintendo has done that with the last few Zelda games.

[TwinIon]

19 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

Yeah, I think if they had pivoted a year or two ago and said something like "the game is primarily being developed for next gen, but we will have PS4/Xbone versions," I don't think it would have been such a big deal. Nintendo has done that with the last few Zelda games.

A year or two ago they were targeting a release that was well ahead of the PS5/Series X. It would be pretty weird to release a game nearly a year before the consoles you recommend people play on have come out.

[Fizzzzle]

37 minutes ago, TwinIon said:

A year or two ago they were targeting a release that was well ahead of the PS5/Series X. It would be pretty weird to release a game nearly a year before the consoles you recommend people play on have come out.

That's true. Maybe the problem was simply an unrealistic time table for release, or publishing kept wanting new things. Which signifies a production team that wasn't very good at relaying information between the development team and the publishing team, which is kind of their job.

 

I think we might have cracked the code...

[vaxick]

I'm glad Sony and Microsoft are offering refunds, but I do wonder, what exactly is CD Projekt Red going to do if you email concerning a refund if you purchased a physical copy.  Most big box retailers will never take opened copies back.  

[SimpleG]

33 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

Maybe the problem was simply an unrealistic time table for release

This seems like the most obvious choice. Between the non existent AI and the way side quests are handled seems like the game needs a year or better before its in a good state.

[legend]

1 hour ago, SimpleG said:

This seems like the most obvious choice. Between the non existent AI and the way side quests are handled seems like the game needs a year or better before its in a good state.

 

For last-gen consoles, maybe a year or just don't do last gen at all. I really don't think the PC version needs a year though. It can still benefit from some performance tuning but absolutely not a year and insisting on better random mass NPCs when there is so much else to the game is nitpicking and a bar no other game has to cross. No game is perfect. But fortunately, you can count on CDPR improving the game for free anyway.

[SimpleG]

1 minute ago, legend said:

For last-gen consoles, maybe a year or just don't do last gen at all. I really don't think the PC version needs a year though

Sorry wasnt very clear, I was using the AI as an example of it not being ready . The year time frame was in relation to the console version.

[legend]

17 minutes ago, SimpleG said:

Sorry wasnt very clear, I was using the AI as an example of it not being ready . The year time frame was in relation to the console version.

 

Ah gotcha. Sorry I misread that. I think we agree then  

[Moa]

1 hour ago, SimpleG said:

This seems like the most obvious choice. Between the non existent AI and the way side quests are handled seems like the game needs a year or better before its in a good state.

 

I'm not so sure. The open world and it's non-named residents have always been set dressing in CDPR games, they provide scope to what are ultimately very directed games. I can imagine marginal improvements being made to the civilian and police AI but it was never going to be prioritized the same way it is for Rockstar. 

 

Personally I'm ok with that aspect of the game being shallow, random events even in R* games where a lot of effort goes into them quickly become busy work, although I wouldn't mind if the civilian AI was a little less Potemkin village. 

[SimpleG]

7 minutes ago, Moa said:

 

I'm not so sure. The open world and it's non-named residents have always been set dressing in CDPR games, they provide scope to what are ultimately very directed games. I can imagine marginal improvements being made to the civilian and police AI but it was never going to be prioritized the same way it is for Rockstar. 

 

Personally I'm ok with that aspect of the game being shallow, random events even in R* games where a lot of effort goes into them quickly become busy work, although I wouldn't mind if the civilian AI was a little less Potemkin village. 

 

CDPR specifically talked about this, it was their goal and they failed.

 

Over a thousand Cyberpunk 2077 NPCs will have unique daily routines

WWW.TWEAKTOWN.COM

---

CD Projekt RED amps up its divergent real-time AI systems for Cyberpunk 2077.

 

[SimpleG]

11 minutes ago, legend said:

 

Ah gotcha. Sorry I misread that. I think we agree then  

No worries I am still high from my root canal , so iam sure its worded poorly

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

I've updated the reviews post:

 

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

 

 

[heydude93]

This game is unfinished, but imagine the fury of gamers if it was delayed again. From a glass half full perspective console owners have early access to the version that'll be done probably/hopefully sometime early next year.  Until then I'm having fun putting the main story missions on hold while grinding side content and exploring the amazing-looking environments that were clearly poured over.  

[BloodyHell]

8 hours ago, legend said:

 

It's such a stupid decision to hide the disparities and release it in its form on last-gen consoles from a company that otherwise has really good practices with consumers. All they did was turn it into a much bigger issue and damage reception of the game.

Yup, they should have released on PC, focused on next gen, and admitted they couldn’t get it to work on 7 year old hardware that wasn’t new when it released. PC pre-orders were 6 million. Those last gen consoles sales are nice, but they don’t need them. The game will sell well for years once its fixed, not unlike Skyrim (which still isn’t playable on PS3). 
 

They would have a ton of goodwill from most of their audience if they had cancelled last gen and been honest. 

[JPDunks4]

55 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

Yup, they should have released on PC, focused on next gen, and admitted they couldn’t get it to work on 7 year old hardware that wasn’t new when it released. PC pre-orders were 6 million. Those last gen consoles sales are nice, but they don’t need them. The game will sell well for years once its fixed, not unlike Skyrim (which still isn’t playable on PS3). 
 

They would have a ton of goodwill from most of their audience if they had cancelled last gen and been honest. 

 

Microsoft's done this a few times now, and they are the damn Console maker.  Flight Sim and Gears Tactics both released on PC first, and allowed them time to get the console versions right.  And as far as I know, there is no Xbox One version.  Sometimes you just need to come to the realization that you can't release a satisfactory product on that old hardware anymore, and move on from it.

[Keyser_Soze]

6 hours ago, SimpleG said:

 

CDPR specifically talked about this, it was their goal and they failed.

 

Over a thousand Cyberpunk 2077 NPCs will have unique daily routines

WWW.TWEAKTOWN.COM

---

CD Projekt RED amps up its divergent real-time AI systems for Cyberpunk 2077.

 

 

Ah they tried to make Gamebryo Engine type claims and it came back to bite them in the ass. Should have learned from Bethesda

[crispy4000]

Saw this in IGN's XBO/PS4 footage, lol.

[DarkStar189]

11 hours ago, heydude93 said:

This game is unfinished, but imagine the fury of gamers if it was delayed again. From a glass half full perspective console owners have early access to the version that'll be done probably/hopefully sometime early next year.  Until then I'm having fun putting the main story missions on hold while grinding side content and exploring the amazing-looking environments that were clearly poured over.  

Console games sure are on a downward trend. They used to release completely finished. Then they were able to be patched to iron out bugs. Then a day one patch to make the game more playable. Then a day one update that could add whole sections of unfinished game. Now they are resorting to putting early access builds on disc and saying "hey guys it's gonna be a while but here's something!". 

[legend]

42 minutes ago, DarkStar189 said:

Console games sure are on a downward trend. They used to release completely finished. Then they were able to be patched to iron out bugs. Then a day one patch to make the game more playable. Then a day one update that could add whole sections of unfinished game. Now they are resorting to putting early access builds on disc and saying "hey guys it's gonna be a while but here's something!". 

 

I'm willing to give end-of-the-year games a bit of a pass this year because of Covid making planning so difficult. If the trend continues I think there will be way too much backlash and they'll have to course correct no matter what. At least I hope so...

[Keyser_Soze]

Gamers get mad at the crunch then they get mad at the game being buggy.

 

Gamers are dumb.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

CDPR held an emergency conference call with investment analysts to discuss the situation.

 

The audio can be found here:

https://www.cdprojekt.com/en/wp-content/uploads-en/2020/12/conference-call-with-the-board_14-12-2020.mp3

 

This is the official transcript of the call:

call-transcript_en.pdf

 

Summary from Reddit:

• CEO says they want to gain the trust of gamers back because they know they've lost it. CEO puts on a "humble" facade that quickly disappears later in the call.
• 17 minutes in, as one of the developers is finishing up answering a question about what they will do to fix the game on last gen consoles, he tells the investor to not expect any graphical or game system type changes, as their only intent is to make the game playable from start to finish without crashing on last gen.
• Last gen console versions of the game weren't given to reviewers because the dev team was still working on those versions during the review period for the game. They were working on them "up until the last minute".
• They also state earlier in the call there was limited QA testing done on the game, it was all done "in house" and no experienced third party contractors were used. CDPR employees played iterative builds of the game in their homes due to the pandemic and that's how they tested the game. They say there wasn't much attention put on the last generation console versions of the game. (you know, the consoles the game was originally made for before the delays)
• 21 or so minutes in, the CEO says they plan to let the Cyberpunk team rest "until February". (good, the actual developers deserve a ton of rest after what their management team has done)
• Multiplayer is tentatively scheduled to release in 2022, but could be pushed to 2023. Depends on how long it takes the development team to actually finish the game (referring to the planned DLC's & expansions) as well as fix what was and is currently being sold to customers.
• Several investors seem to be very concerned about the game being refunded. One asked how the refund process works through Microsoft and Sony and if the investor will still keep his cut. (this person seems to have no regard for customer satisfaction and is only focused on keeping his cut of the money, even after a customer refunds the game.)
• No plans to lower the price of the last gen console versions, despite the depleted experience. The PC version has very clearly been their main focus. All console versions seem to be an afterthought.
• One investor asks if the development team needed more actual developers in order to finish the game on time. CDPR's answer was no, that the number of developers wouldn't have changed anything. The CEO took responsibility for their management team rushing the development of the game and not understanding the technical limitations the dev team was up against. (yo what happened to "Coming: When it's ready" ???)
• It's very apparent throughout this call the CDPR management team keeps referring back to the "next gen upgrade at no additional cost" for console owners, but they fail to explain to these investors that doesn't change anything if you don't have a next gen console. They are using that as a response to questions about the last gen console version of the game. Pretty scummy way to frame their answers in my opinion, and it's happened multiple times now.
• Stadia version will be updated once before their holiday break. After that there is no further update (bug fixing updates) planned for the Stadia version of the game, but this could change in Q1 of 2021. This was misheard by me while listening to the audio call. The comment was about sale numbers updates. Thanks to u/Deadceptor's extremely rude and condescending comment for pointing this mistake out. You can rest easy now, it's been fixed.
• An investor specifically asks about the NPC and AI behavior, citing the backlash it's received online by customers. CDPR's answer is that the AI and NPC behavior is part of the bugs, and the patches that come in January and February will address those issues/bugs. Nothing more in depth was said about the AI.
• One last time before ending the call, CDPR yet again touts the "next gen upgrade at no additional cost" and hopes gamers will keep the game instead of refunding it so that they can experience the next gen upgrade as soon as it's ready. But again, as I stated earlier, they fail to explain to these investors that if you don't have a next gen console, this next gen upgrade is useless to you.

[Keyser_Soze]

No "experienced testers" were used. That's funny because an experienced tester is just anyone who plays the game and gives feedback about bugs.

[CitizenVectron]

Is this possibly the biggest "wow this game is amazing!" to "fuck the developer!" turnarounds in game history? Normally a game comes out and the press is immediately negative, but in this case the first 24-48 hours were pretty good, and then there was the sudden downturn in opinions.

 

They can definitely turn it around if they put in the work (look at No Man's Sky, which is fantastic now)...but they'll need to earn that good will back.

[legend]

30 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

CDPR held an emergency conference call with investment analysts to discuss the situation.

 

The audio can be found here:

https://www.cdprojekt.com/en/wp-content/uploads-en/2020/12/conference-call-with-the-board_14-12-2020.mp3

 

This is the official transcript of the call:

call-transcript_en.pdf 211.11 kB · 1 download

 

Summary from Reddit:

• CEO says they want to gain the trust of gamers back because they know they've lost it. CEO puts on a "humble" facade that quickly disappears later in the call.
• 17 minutes in, as one of the developers is finishing up answering a question about what they will do to fix the game on last gen consoles, he tells the investor to not expect any graphical or game system type changes, as their only intent is to make the game playable from start to finish without crashing on last gen.
• Last gen console versions of the game weren't given to reviewers because the dev team was still working on those versions during the review period for the game. They were working on them "up until the last minute".
• They also state earlier in the call there was limited QA testing done on the game, it was all done "in house" and no experienced third party contractors were used. CDPR employees played iterative builds of the game in their homes due to the pandemic and that's how they tested the game. They say there wasn't much attention put on the last generation console versions of the game. (you know, the consoles the game was originally made for before the delays)
• 21 or so minutes in, the CEO says they plan to let the Cyberpunk team rest "until February". (good, the actual developers deserve a ton of rest after what their management team has done)
• Multiplayer is tentatively scheduled to release in 2022, but could be pushed to 2023. Depends on how long it takes the development team to actually finish the game (referring to the planned DLC's & expansions) as well as fix what was and is currently being sold to customers.
• Several investors seem to be very concerned about the game being refunded. One asked how the refund process works through Microsoft and Sony and if the investor will still keep his cut. (this person seems to have no regard for customer satisfaction and is only focused on keeping his cut of the money, even after a customer refunds the game.)
• No plans to lower the price of the last gen console versions, despite the depleted experience. The PC version has very clearly been their main focus. All console versions seem to be an afterthought.
• One investor asks if the development team needed more actual developers in order to finish the game on time. CDPR's answer was no, that the number of developers wouldn't have changed anything. The CEO took responsibility for their management team rushing the development of the game and not understanding the technical limitations the dev team was up against. (yo what happened to "Coming: When it's ready" ???)
• It's very apparent throughout this call the CDPR management team keeps referring back to the "next gen upgrade at no additional cost" for console owners, but they fail to explain to these investors that doesn't change anything if you don't have a next gen console. They are using that as a response to questions about the last gen console version of the game. Pretty scummy way to frame their answers in my opinion, and it's happened multiple times now.
• Stadia version will be updated once before their holiday break. After that there is no further update (bug fixing updates) planned for the Stadia version of the game, but this could change in Q1 of 2021. This was misheard by me while listening to the audio call. The comment was about sale numbers updates. Thanks to u/Deadceptor's extremely rude and condescending comment for pointing this mistake out. You can rest easy now, it's been fixed.
• An investor specifically asks about the NPC and AI behavior, citing the backlash it's received online by customers. CDPR's answer is that the AI and NPC behavior is part of the bugs, and the patches that come in January and February will address those issues/bugs. Nothing more in depth was said about the AI.
• One last time before ending the call, CDPR yet again touts the "next gen upgrade at no additional cost" and hopes gamers will keep the game instead of refunding it so that they can experience the next gen upgrade as soon as it's ready. But again, as I stated earlier, they fail to explain to these investors that if you don't have a next gen console, this next gen upgrade is useless to you.

 

Sounds like it's time for management to commit seppuku.

[AbsolutSurgen]

 

 

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

40 minutes ago, legend said:

 

Sounds like it's time for management to commit seppuku.

 

Practically everything that we're seeing is very much a failure of management and really does lend credence to the stories we've heard of their management issues for years.  

 

Essentially, they got lucky with The Witcher 3.  That luck finally ran out.

[Kal-El814]

16 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

Practically everything that we're seeing is very much a failure of management and really does lend credence to the stories we've heard of their management issues for years.  

 

Essentially, they got lucky with The Witcher 3.  That luck finally ran out.

 

I also wonder about the extent to which some of this stuff was happening behind the scenes the whole time, it's just that CDPR didn't have the rep that Wild Hunt earned them paired up with the gaming press not giving as much of a shit about worker treatment back when it came out.

[Amazatron]

6 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

I also wonder about the extent to which some of this stuff was happening behind the scenes the whole time, it's just that CDPR didn't have the rep that Wild Hunt earned them paired up with the gaming press not giving as much of a shit about worker treatment back when it came out.

Maybe, but it seems more likely that when companies scale up, they tend to become cesspools of shitty behavior. Especially when their market cap increases tenfold off essentially one IP and there are investors to please.

[Kal-El814]

Just now, Amazatron said:

Maybe, but it seems more likely that when companies scale up, they tend to become cesspools of shitty behavior. Especially when their market cap increases tenfold off essentially one IP and there are investors to please.

 

Yeah, indeed. The issues here seem broad enough that I don't suspect there's a magic bullet.

[BloodyHell]

1 hour ago, CitizenVectron said:

Is this possibly the biggest "wow this game is amazing!" to "fuck the developer!" turnarounds in game history? Normally a game comes out and the press is immediately negative, but in this case the first 24-48 hours were pretty good, and then there was the sudden downturn in opinions.

 

They can definitely turn it around if they put in the work (look at No Man's Sky, which is fantastic now)...but they'll need to earn that good will back.

I mean, both are true.

Fuck CDPR management AND this is the best open world rpg I’ve ever played, despite its bugs.