Microsoft Xbox Series X | S OT - Power Your Dreams, update: FTC case unredacted documents leaked, including XSX mid-generation refresh, new gyro/haptic-enabled controller, and next-generation plans for 2028

[JPDunks4]

Bright Memory is actually in Early Access on Steam I believe.  

 

 

[skillzdadirecta]

3 minutes ago, JPDunks4 said:

Bright Memory is actually in Early Access on Steam I believe.  

 

 

This looks pretty good.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

So, I did like the low key slam on Sony and Nintendo during the stream. 
 

she said every major publisher is making games for Xbox, and Sony and Nintendo were not on the list. Xbox says Sony and Nintendo are not major publishers confirmed. 

[Xbob42]

1 hour ago, Emperor Diocletian II said:

For a plurality -- if not an outright majority -- of "AAA" developers, 60 FPS is simply not a high priority in comparison to achieving OMGWTFBBQ graphical fidelity and a solid 30 FPS.

 

"Best.  Looking. Game. EVER!" is the bragging right you want to slap on the advertising campaign, not "Smooth As Silk 60 FPS".

Oh, this is well-known. Anyone expecting next-gen to seriously be 60 FPS is out of their goddamn minds. What kind of developer would actually use that horsepower to make a game run better and therefore be easier on the eyes and more responsive to play?

If the last two generations are any indication, uh... the rotating Call of Duty developers and like maybe half of the people making 2D indie games. (Somehow we still get 30 FPS 2D indie games.)

 

Which is funny, because very few games on display have actually been impressive graphical showpieces this generation. So what you actually end up with is a bunch of mediocre looking games that also don't run well. It's a real one-two punch.

[JPDunks4]

Phil Spencer and some of the other Microsoft leadership have at least emphasized that FPS and that type of performance baseline should be 60fps on the Series X.  They won't mandate it to creators, because their general messaging is that they wont tell developers how to make their games.

 

Hoping more and more developers go that route and at least aim for 60fps.

[crispy4000]

36 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

Oh, this is well-known. Anyone expecting next-gen to seriously be 60 FPS is out of their goddamn minds. What kind of developer would actually use that horsepower to make a game run better and therefore be easier on the eyes and more responsive to play?

 

23 minutes ago, JPDunks4 said:

Phil Spencer and some of the other Microsoft leadership have at least emphasized that FPS and that type of performance baseline should be 60fps on the Series X.  They won't mandate it to creators, because their general messaging is that they wont tell developers how to make their games.

 

Hoping more and more developers go that route and at least aim for 60fps.

You two are both forgetting the middle ground trend that we've seen this gen: Quality mode vs Performance mode.  I think we'll see those options continue to be built in, especially as devs continue to push fidelity.

 

But there will be no baseline standard of 60fps, that's for sure.

[JPDunks4]

4 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

 

You two are both forgetting the middle ground trend that we've seen this gen: Quality mode vs Performance mode.  I think we'll see those options continue to be built in, especially as devs continue to push fidelity.

 

But there will be no baseline standard of 60fps, that's for sure.

 

Yeah, I dont know.  I think with the upgraded CPU's, 60fps shouldn't be that much to ask for, and I do think a lot of the discussion has moved away from resolutions to FPS performance, so I do think the general public will start demanding it more and more, and more developers will make it a priority.

 

I think we'll start to see 60fps > 4k for a lot of people, and developers would be foolish not to at least have modes available for both.

 

Dirt 5 will have a 120fps performance mode on the Series X I believe, so hopefully we hear about more and more developers targeting 60 minimum, with some being able to go higher if the style of game can benefit from it.

 

I have seen a lot asking for AC Valhalla will be 60fps, and Ubisoft haven't commented on it.

[AbsolutSurgen]

General Public doesn't care about framerate or resolution.  They aren't demanding anything from developers.

[Xbob42]

8 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

 

You two are both forgetting the middle ground trend that we've seen this gen: Quality mode vs Performance mode.

That's a direct result of having mid-gen refreshes, rather than like a trend that came about from devs wanting to offer a broader choice in experiences, I think. You do have a point, though, since the Series X will still be sort-of kind-of in line with the Xbox One X and of course the base Xbox One, so maybe we'll see that trend continue. I would love that, since I will pick performance every single time. God, if Bloodborne had a performance mode I might've actually kept playing it.

 

1 minute ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

General Public doesn't care about framerate or resolution.  They aren't demanding anything from developers.

I think this is half-true. The general public kind of doesn't give a shit in general, but they do "demand" things (as far as publishers are concerned) by their reactions on social media, in response to trailers on Youtube/E3, etc. Fancy graphics get the big responses. Smooth framerates get no responses at all.

[crispy4000]

33 minutes ago, JPDunks4 said:

 

Yeah, I dont know.  I think with the upgraded CPU's, 60fps shouldn't be that much to ask for, and I do think a lot of the discussion has moved away from resolutions to FPS performance, so I do think the general public will start demanding it more and more, and more developers will make it a priority.

 

Dirt 5 will have a 120fps performance mode on the Series X I believe, so hopefully we hear about more and more developers targeting 60 minimum, with some being able to go higher if the style of game can benefit from it.

 

I have seen a lot asking for AC Valhalla will be 60fps, and Ubisoft haven't commented on it.

 

The issue isn't the CPU.  It's how much further AAA developers will want to push the GPU with raytracing.

 

I don't think console gamers will ever get used to 60fps to a point where they gawk at some new cinematic trailer for not looking smooth enough.  I don't even think most PC gamers are that discerning, to be honest.  Everyone gets hyped regardless.  Gamers won't be taking a stand this gen.  If anything, many of us will talk up the things that leave certain games 30fps locked.

 

I'm expecting Dirt 5 to essentially be a current gen title with a few added bells and whistles.  We can expect more cross-gen titles to be 60fps (and up) than the big blockbusters in a few years.  ... Or not, if early titles get overzealous with RT.

[AbsolutSurgen]

 

[crispy4000]

23 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

That's a direct result of having mid-gen refreshes, rather than like a trend that came about from devs wanting to offer a broader choice in experiences, I think. You do have a point, though, since the Series X will still be sort-of kind-of in line with the Xbox One X and of course the base Xbox One, so maybe we'll see that trend continue. I would love that, since I will pick performance every single time. God, if Bloodborne had a performance mode I might've actually kept playing it.

Like mid-gen refreshes, I believe the concept is here to stay.  There's even more excuses to offer it now, given the resolution hit some games could take with RT.  It'd be weird not to offer the choice.  We might even see a third tier with some titles.

Big time developers don't want to sacrifice the visuals they want to push.  It helps them market their games as better looking than the other guys.  And I don't think the general public cares what framerate they're marketed to in.

[crispy4000]

Watching that DF video also made me realize something: Raytracing could be used mainly as a cutscene polish effect in some games.  Chorus looks like it could be that.  Or at least it being dialed up there.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

The big interview: Xbox Series X development chief Jason Ronald on power, price and that new boot screen (Eurogamer)

Quote

Jason Ronald's job title is partner director of program management for the Xbox platform team, but what that somewhat robotic label boils down to is he's leading development of the Xbox Series X, Microsoft's next-generation console due out in time for Christmas 2020. He's played a key role in the making of the Xbox Series X, from the beginning to the present, its hardware to its software. Nobody knows Xbox Series X like Jason Ronald.

 

Apparently, nobody has a beard like Jason Ronald either:

 

 

I'd be so tempted to ask "What made you transition careers from ZZ Top?"

[skillzdadirecta]

1 hour ago, Emperor Diocletian II said:

The big interview: Xbox Series X development chief Jason Ronald on power, price and that new boot screen (Eurogamer)

 

Apparently, nobody has a beard like Jason Ronald either:

 

 

I'd be so tempted to ask "What made you transition careers from ZZ Top?"

He's just BEGGING to get his lunch money taken... like he's bringing out my inner Nelson Muntz.

[Keyser_Soze]

6 hours ago, JPDunks4 said:

It's not to say the games looked bad, but just a quick sizzle reel of trailers with no in depth breakdown of what the Series X version does better than the old hardware, is what lost it, along with the lack of real gameplay.

 

I think of it like this, the showcase was 20 minutes long. Normal E3 press conferences are like 90 minutes or longer. So this was like what the intro of the conference would be, and if the conference continued they would run down down the specs, features, and other things.

 

In any case the only way to be disappointed is to expect something. I didn't expect or anticipate much and walked away happy. Everyone who walked away disappointed had something to say such as, "That's not next gen" and all this other stuff. Oh well!

[Keyser_Soze]

I'd also say if you're underwhelmed by next gen it's because we've been in next gen for a year already. RTX cards came out a year ago and games have been slowly utilizing it. Heck even Bright Memory has been out a while. Consoles are still playing catch up and that's what these new consoles are.

 

You want Next gen, here, Quake 2!

 

[chakoo]

3 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

I'd also say if you're underwhelmed by next gen it's because we've been in next gen for a year already. RTX cards came out a year ago and games have been slowly utilizing it. Heck even Bright Memory has been out a while. Consoles are still playing catch up and that's what these new consoles are.

 

You want Next gen, here, Quake 2!

 

Yeah, things like quake 2 rtx and Minecraft rtx is what has me excited for next gen. It’s a complete rethinking of the render pipeline much like g-buffers/deferred rendering was.

[JPDunks4]

36 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

I'd also say if you're underwhelmed by next gen it's because we've been in next gen for a year already. RTX cards came out a year ago and games have been slowly utilizing it. Heck even Bright Memory has been out a while. Consoles are still playing catch up and that's what these new consoles are.

 

You want Next gen, here, Quake 2!

 

I have a 2080ti and still haven't tried a Single RTX game...

[Keyser_Soze]

17 minutes ago, JPDunks4 said:

I have a 2080ti and still haven't tried a Single RTX game...

 

[DPCyric]

18 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

As for art direction... I'm not really seeing why that's a specific selling point for a new console when, from what we know, the current gen versions may very well preserve the look.   At a different resolution/framerate/aliasing.

 

 

I was just saying that I don't need something going for photo-realism to sell me on a next gen console give me good art direction + good framerate and I'm n.

[crispy4000]

1 hour ago, DPCyric said:

I was just saying that I don't need something going for photo-realism to sell me on a next gen console give me good art direction + good framerate and I'm in.

 

What if you could play most of those same games in a 60fps 1080p performance mode on a Pro/X1X/few-years-old PC?

 

Its not out of the question, since most of them will still be designed to run on Xbox One and PS4 base hardware.

[best3444]

19 hours ago, Emperor Diocletian II said:

The big interview: Xbox Series X development chief Jason Ronald on power, price and that new boot screen (Eurogamer)

 

Apparently, nobody has a beard like Jason Ronald either:

 

 

I'd be so tempted to ask "What made you transition careers from ZZ Top?"

 

@Rachel @stepee @BasemntDweller2 @ManUtdRedDevils

 

Apparently Biggie lied to us again. He's a development chief for the next Xbox.

[Remarkableriots]

https://www.pcmag.com/news/report-whatever-the-ps5-costs-xbox-series-x-will-be-cheaper

Quote

When two games consoles launch at roughly the same time, price can play a major role in which one consumers decide to buy. For the Xbox Series X, Microsoft is thought to be waiting for Sony to reveal the PS5 price before undercutting it, even if that means selling the Series X at a big loss.

As VG24/7 reports, news of the plan to undercut the PS5 on price comes via well-known Wedbush Securities analyst Michael Pachter, and Peter Moore, former EA and Microsoft executive. Both men believe Microsoft is determined to be cheaper than Sony this generation, and that it could be as big as a $100 price difference.

I would still go with Sony because those are the games I'm more interested in and invested into but this could be interesting. I would like to get the Series X as a secondary system though after skipping the One.

[Nokt]

4 hours ago, Remarkableriots said:

https://www.pcmag.com/news/report-whatever-the-ps5-costs-xbox-series-x-will-be-cheaper

I would still go with Sony because those are the games I'm more interested in and invested into but this could be interesting. I would like to get the Series X as a secondary system though after skipping the One.

While I'm really happy for their new approach to bringing first party titles to PC/Steam, it makes you wonder what their plan is for hardware sales. Anyone that has a decent PC is going to pass on a Series X because there is no value in it.

 

I think a cool concept would be the ability to stream PC only or PC versions of games to the XSX. I've enjoyed my One S for the fact that its a cheap 4k player and easy to take on trips. Transfer my Destiny account to Xbox, download some of the play anywhere titles, and take it to my parents when I go home for Christmas. Problem is all my friends are on PC for multiplayer titles like Destiny. Being able to stream the game to the XSX would be a really cool feature, even if it introduces a little lag. Biggest hurdles though is that their online store sucks and they would either have to start selling PC titles or do some partnership with Steam.

[Remarkableriots]

7 minutes ago, Nokt said:

While I'm really happy for their new approach to bringing first party titles to PC/Steam, it makes you wonder what their plan is for hardware sales. Anyone that has a decent PC is going to pass on a Series X because there is no value in it.

 

I think a cool concept would be the ability to stream PC only or PC versions of games to the XSX. I've enjoyed my One S for the fact that its a cheap 4k player and easy to take on trips. Transfer my Destiny account to Xbox, download some of the play anywhere titles, and take it to my parents when I go home for Christmas. Problem is all my friends are on PC for multiplayer titles like Destiny. Being able to stream the game to the XSX would be a really cool feature, even if it introduces a little lag. Biggest hurdles though is that their online store sucks and they would either have to start selling PC titles or do some partnership with Steam.

It would have insane amount of lag not a little lag.

[Keyser_Soze]

35 minutes ago, Nokt said:

Anyone that has a decent PC is going to pass on a Series X because there is no value in it.

 

I have a better PC than the sex is likely to be but I'll probably still get a sex.

[Spork3245]

36 minutes ago, Remarkableriots said:

It would have insane amount of lag not a little lag.

I stream games from my PC via to my TV with my AppleTV using the SteamLink app in 4k HDR at 60fps... there’s no discernible lag.

[Remarkableriots]

35 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

I stream games from my PC via to my TV with my AppleTV using the SteamLink app in 4k HDR at 60fps... there’s no discernible lag.

So if he takes his console home to his parents house he won't have any discernible lag streaming Destiny from his PC to his console?

[Spork3245]

1 hour ago, Remarkableriots said:

So if he takes his console home to his parents house he won't have any discernible lag streaming Destiny from his PC to his console?

Depends on his connection speed. However, via internet, things like PS4 remote play are nearly lagless. Things like 1080p are not too difficult to stream (ie: it may not stream in 4k).

[JPDunks4]

I have a high end PC, but I'll still get the new Xbox.  As far as I know, my PC won't be back compat with my Xbox One library of games, or give them all the enhancements the Series X is stating it will provide.

 

Majority of my friends are still Console gamers too, with 0 desire to invest or deal with PC gaming.  With more and more games being cross platform multiplayer, this barrier is slowly going away, but for now ,it's still present for some games.

 

I think the market is still pretty huge for consoles overall.  Even the best exclusives on consoles sell what, 10 million or so.  So if PS4 has sold 100 million consoles, and only 10 or so million care about their best exclusives, that's still a huge market for people that just prefer gaming on consoles.

 

And as you said, even with my PC, I still go by my parents place and have an Xbox there, have an Xbox setup in my living room if friends come by and want to play, ect.  My PC is still set up in a place that is really only effective for a single person to game on.  

 

$500 for whats supposed to be a pretty damn powerful console, it still an insanely good deal for the majority of gamers out there to play the vast majority of games.

 

They have started releasing their games on Steam though, maybe they will have some kind of partnership with Steam.  Have a Steam store on the Series X to play Steam titles on it.  

[Nokt]

1 hour ago, Remarkableriots said:

So if he takes his console home to his parents house he won't have any discernible lag streaming Destiny from his PC to his console?

I tested the Xbox Game Streaming a long time ago. I could immediately tell there was a delay in my inputs in Halo 5. That said it wasn’t unplayable or even horrible. It’s not something I’d go into PvP with, but for general PvE content in Destiny it would probably be fine. 

 

Even with that, there are plenty of games on my PC where I wouldn’t need the preciseness of an FPS like playing For the King with some friends. 

[atom631]

so is the series x still on track to release this year? 

[Remarkableriots]

11 minutes ago, atom631 said:

so is the series x still on track to release this year? 

So far it's but we probably won't know for sure until close to launch.

[crispy4000]

4 hours ago, JPDunks4 said:

I have a high end PC, but I'll still get the new Xbox.  As far as I know, my PC won't be back compat with my Xbox One library of games, or give them all the enhancements the Series X is stating it will provide.

Series X's pitch in this is pretty much identical to the One X's though.

 

We'll see some current games rendered consistently in full 4k instead of ~1800p on the X1X.  But more significant enhancements, such as the removal of a 30fps lock, would likely take a newly produced patch / re-release.

That's one of the stronger arguments for buying into the PC ecosystem long term, rather than with consoles.  If I go back and play an old 360-era game, I get to crank pretty much everything up to very high.  Not just see select improvements that vary depending on the way the console version was built.

 

I do wish more og Xbox games received PC ports though.  And a few 360 ones like Fable II and Lost Odyssey too.  That's where I feel X1X & Series X backwards compatibility is most appealing.

 

 

4 hours ago, JPDunks4 said:

They have started releasing their games on Steam though, maybe they will have some kind of partnership with Steam.  Have a Steam store on the Series X to play Steam titles on it.  

 

Pretty sure it wasn't a partnership so much as sell-to audience envy.  Same goes with Sony.

 

There's no way we'd ever see a Steam store on Series X while the Microsoft Store still exists as it does.