General Gaming Do you play games for challenge?

[Fizzzzle]

I've been thinking about this recently. Why do you play games? Is it to have a more interactive story than a book or movie? Is it for a puzzle? Social interaction?

 

For me, the more challenging a game is, (for the most part) the less I want to play it. I think that's because I work a job where I basically have my head on a swivel and am kept at a level of hyper-alertness all day. When I'm home, I don't want extra stress on my brain. For the most part, I just want to explore a different world. I do enjoy getting into the nitty gritty of strategy systems sometimes, and there are some games I've played enough that I know them backwards and forwards (like cities: skylines and stardew valley) to the point where the challenge isn't there anymore. And I actually like them better that way.

 

There are challenges that I do like, but they're usually in games with more bite sized challenges, like super meat boy or [insert mario game]. Basically games where you can dive in, make a couple runs at a particularly challenge, then bounce. And it's more about my physical response time and planning rather than my character isn't leveled up enough or whatever.

 

As for multiplayer, I generally stay away from it. I think that also ties to my day job. I have to talk to people all day. When I'm home, I generally don't want to. Now that I'm single, that might change. 

 

Then again, I have actually started playing DnD, and I love it. I have 2 campaigns right now, and they're a blast. That comes down to knowing someone who is comfortable as a DM, though, which probably not everyone has access to.

[Guest]

I play most single player games on the standard difficulty. I simply don’t have the skill to find harder games enjoyable. I want to have fun more than anything. 
 

I guess I could say I do like challenges in terms of puzzles, but not gameplay itself.

[Nokt]

I play games for the enjoyment I get from playing them. Challenging sometimes fits into that category, but not always. Not even really often if I'm being honest. There are very few games I play on the hardest difficulty or play it knowing that its a challenging game.

[TheLeon]

Sometimes. I play different games at different times for different reasons. One thing I've noticed is that I don't want the extreme challenge in a story-heavy game. If I'm playing a game mostly for the story/characters, I really don't want to have to play the same scenario over and over again until I finally conquer it. I don't mind fighting the same boss in Dark Souls 20 times because that's the game. Now that I'm trying to articulate that distinction as it is in my brain, I'm not sure if that makes a lot of sense. Whatever, I'm tired. 

[EternallDarkness]

48 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

I play most single player games on the standard difficulty. I simply don’t have the skill to find harder games enjoyable. I want to have fun more than anything. 
 

I guess I could say I do like challenges in terms of puzzles, but not gameplay itself.

 

this

[crispy4000]

I like challenge that is built into the experience and learning curve.  I dislike challenge that is selected from a menu.

[skillzdadirecta]

I play almost every single player game on the difficulty level one up from the standard. Games get too boring otherwise. If I really dig the game then I will almost always replay it on the hardest difficulty. For me that's when you REALLY get to know the ins and outs of the gameplay and design. So yes, I definitely play games for the challenge. One of the reasons I was dissappointed with Cyberpunk was that the game was too easy. I DESPISE artificial difficulty spikes and unfair scenarios though. DESPISE them.

[Keyser_Soze]

If it's a challenging game I'll play it for the challenge.

Though those balls to the walls frustrating games like Jump King and I Wanna be the Guy I'll stay away from.

[Best]

In my 20's I played games for a challenge sometimes. These days I play my games on easy. I literally suck at playing videogames at my age. My response time is a joke. 

[Phaseknox]

I play games for escapism, the experience that they offer and most importantly fun. I need to be somewhat challenged in games to have fun since overcoming challenges in them is part of what makes them games, but I don’t like to be frustrated.

 

The normal difficulty in most games is usually just right for me offering enough of a challenge to make me have to put forth a decent amount of effort to get through them without ever being hard enough to make me angry, and want to quit playing.

 

I have hundreds of games in my backlog, so I don’t like overly difficult games that force me to have to “git gud” by making me retry something dozens of times just to pass a certain part of a level, or defeat a boss. That’s not fun IMO, it’s tedious. It feels like it’s unnecessarily wasting my time. Perhaps some people like a lot of trial-and-error in games, but I don’t. It messes up the flow, and momentum in games. Of course I don’t expect to get through every section of a game or beat every boss my first time, but I expect to after a few tries not dozens.

 

There’s a reason why most games offer different difficulty settings, because not everyone has the same patience and/or skills when it comes to games. Difficulty settings allow players to adjust the challenge in games to what suits them best for them to enjoy the experience. And enjoying the experience is what games are all about.

[johnny]

i don’t really like failing in games a lot. so i’ll usually play on normal where i’ll fail sometimes but not to the point where i get frustrated or have to put 100% focus on everything i’m doing. i like to have fun which means getting challenged sometimes, but not all the time. i play games for the fun and story (when applicable). 

[Bacon]

I don't know. I love games like Dark Souls, but I am not really a fan of games like Super Meat Boy or N+ once you get into their later levels. I also am not a fan of difficulty settings. It is almost always either too easy, or too frustrating. This is especially true for JRPGs. The lower modes are just so easy you don't even have to try while harder modes are just there to make you take more damage and grind for much longer. 

 

That is what I like about Souls-likes. It is totally balanced from the start. It is a level of challenge that makes me want to beat it. 

[Fizzzzle]

2 hours ago, TheLeon said:

Sometimes. I play different games at different times for different reasons. One thing I've noticed is that I don't want the extreme challenge in a story-heavy game. If I'm playing a game mostly for the story/characters, I really don't want to have to play the same scenario over and over again until I finally conquer it. I don't mind fighting the same boss in Dark Souls 20 times because that's the game. Now that I'm trying to articulate that distinction as it is in my brain, I'm not sure if that makes a lot of sense. Whatever, I'm tired. 

I think that makes sense. It depends on your motivation for playing the game. If you're playing the game to continue the story, if there's a particular annoying section that you can't get around that keeps you from enjoying said story, it's annoying.

 

I think it's another example where it really depends on what you're playing and why. For me, Super Meat Boy is again a perfect example. It's small, bite-sized chunks of challenge. I do it bit-by-bit. If I'm playing a story-driven game and hit a wall that I can't get over because my characters aren't leveled up enough and I have to grind for  5 hours, that makes me not want to play anymore.

 

For example, Final Fantasy IX is one of my favorite games of all time, but the first time I played it I didn't finish because there's a massive level spike when you reach the third continent. After playing the first time, I knew to spend about 5 hours leveling up my characters before I went to the second continent to make sure I was set, but if I wasn't so interested in the characters and story, I would have quit.

 

(all RPGs with more party members than you can have in battle at once should have passive leveling. Don't make me grind for levels and then make me grind for those same levels again because I need to level each member individually. I think Suikoden does it best by rapidly progressing levels if a character is underleveled. If you bring a level 6 character to a fight with a bunch of level 30 baddies, the level 6 character will gain like 15 levels in one fight if they survive)

[Fizzzzle]

3 hours ago, Bacon said:

I don't know. I love games like Dark Souls, but I am not really a fan of games like Super Meat Boy or N+ once you get into their later levels. I also am not a fan of difficulty settings. It is almost always either too easy, or too frustrating. This is especially true for JRPGs. The lower modes are just so easy you don't even have to try while harder modes are just there to make you take more damage and grind for much longer. 

 

That is what I like about Souls-likes. It is totally balanced from the start. It is a level of challenge that makes me want to beat it. 

I can definitely see that. I play a lot of JRPGs that have difficulty settings on the harder difficulty, but with cheats on. I know that sounds dumb, but it's basically like I want a bit of the actual strategy without feeling like I'm smashing my head against the wall. I played Dragon Quest XI with a 1.5x experience multiplier throughout the game. That eliminated most of the grinding. I beat the game in like 60 hours instead of 80, and I don't feel like my experience was lessened at all.

[BloodyHell]

Depends on the game. I don't usually play on normal, its usually too easy. But I also don't generally play on hard. But I do like genuinely hard games.

 

 

[crispy4000]

42 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

For example, Final Fantasy IX is one of my favorite games of all time, but the first time I played it I didn't finish because there's a massive level spike when you reach the third continent. After playing the first time, I knew to spend about 5 hours leveling up my characters before I went to the second continent to make sure I was set, but if I wasn't so interested in the characters and story, I would have quit.

 

Playing FFIX for the first time, and just made it to the 3rd continent.  It's not bad at all.  Did you take magic users with you?  That could have been the mistake.  The 'healer' ability is making it pretty cakewalk for me too.

[Fizzzzle]

1 minute ago, crispy4000 said:

 

Playing FFIX for the first time, and just made it to the 3rd continent.  It's not bad at all.  Did you take magic users with you?  That could have been your mistake.  The 'healer' ability is making it pretty cakewalk for me too.

I don't remember, I was like 12 years old at the time lol. It has never been an issue since. Also, I think the last time I played it, I leveled the shit out of Quina's enemy abilities, and he/she/they was a fucking beast by the later parts of the game. Blue magic has always been a thing in FF games where it's like, if you REALLY want to, you can break the fucking game. Like Gau in FFVI. They just count on most players not taking the time to do it.

[crispy4000]

I don't know what's up with his standard attack though.  It always does such a variable amount.

 

I'm more about stealing from everything to level up Thievery.  Massive damage for this point in the game.  Those stone monsters die single hit.

[legend]

It depends on the game. I will play games for basically any of the reasons you listed.

 

I do enjoy a challenging game but there are some serious constraints about that.

1. The challenge has to be fair -- when I fail, it was clearly my fault.

2. The challenge has to respect the player's time.

3. The player is not punished for failing, but encouraged to try and get better.

 

You would think these requirements would be easy to satisfy but *far* too often "challenging" games will blunder one of these if not all of these. Examples of unfair challenges:

• Enemies have generous hit boxes against you -- they'll hit even when they visually miss
• The game suddenly changes the rules of the game midstream or requires you to die countless times just to figure out the rules are.
• Enemies magically spawn behind you with no indicators regardless of where you are or what you're looking at.

 

Examples of not respecting the player's time include.

• Requiring the player to replay a bunch of content they can trivially do just to get back to the part they are struggling with. Rogue Like's are often on my shit list for this, but can be done well enough if you still need to get better in the early stages and if the whole cycle is short enough. Playing with new things each run also reduces the "I just did this crap" feel. But they walk the line and often fall on the wrong side, IMO.
• Making bosses much higher leveled just so you have to grind for hours. Bosses should be hard because the strategy is difficult, not because your virtual characters need to kill more trash first.
• Not providing an easy way to save where you are back out. You don't have to do this from literally everywhere, but you can't space out your ability to do so by hours.
• Having boss fights that require you to watch the same hour-long cutscene each time you try them. (Fortunately less common these days)

 

As far as punishing the player, this usually just means taking items or resources from the player that they can't easily get back.

 

 

Challenging games I like

• Doom/Doom Eternal
• Hollow Knight
• Celeste
• Dead Cells
• Mortal Kombat 11
• Original Halo games on Legendary (except Halo 2 sniper Jackles)

 

 

Hollow Knight and Dead Cells almost ran afoul on some of these points, but they tended to have mechanisms in place that limited it. They are also otherwise extremely fair combat systems.

 

 

I don't like Bloodborne or the Souls games because they don't respect my time. I was really enjoying the core combat of Bloodborne, but it's far too much replaying what you already did with nothing changing and often results in you getting further and dying only because you now have to fight something you've never fought before with different patterns and you have to go far back and start again.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

I don’t mind a game challenging me, but there is often a sweet spot. I like to play at my own pace with my own style, so I hate when enemy difficulty goes up and a time limit is imposed. I hate time limits in general. I hate when challenging also means I’m less powerful than the weakest enemy. 
 

Outside of the occasional puzzles, I’m not a fan of trial and error gameplay either. turning a corner or entering a room and being instantly nuked is not my idea of challenging that is fun. 
 

I play for escapism and fun. And yes “fun” can be many things to different people.
 

I don’t want to feel like I’m just mindlessly breezing through something with almost no effort. But I also don’t want to feel like the game is constantly punching me in the face and pushing me down the stairs until I manage to just barely squeak by. Feeling like I overcame the impossible isn’t fun to me. 

[Bloodporne]

It completely depends on the game and my mood. Generally though, my main thing is that I like games to be as engaging as possible and I easily get bored by Action-based games that don't challenge me consistently. It kind of takes me out of the experience and my mind wanders if I can just go through enemies by mashing buttons. This obviously doesn't apply to something much more story-based like SOMA for example but the majority of my gaming intake is definitely skewed towards hard games.

 

A good example is Devil May Cry 3 vs. Devil May Cry 5. I felt like DMC5 was just boring because the game never pushed me and I didn't really like Bayonetta for the same reason back in the day. It's not that they were necessarily easy but something about them compared to DMC3 for example felt it wasn't pushing me to improve and pushing me towards having to try new tactics. That's a difficulty I love and thrive on, when games consistently challenge your play style and comfort zone with new, more difficult encounter types.

 

Despite loving Control, Remedy's 'more HP, more sponge' combat encounter design is ironically a prime example of something I find kind of cheesy and boring. Somehow the game made it work in context and I still enjoyed the combat a lot simply because it felt great but just sponging the fuck out of enemies and dropping a random collection of them into a room isn't my idea of being challenged intelligently.

 

Then there's Death Stranding, which I maybe actually died twice or three times in, yet I still found it challenging and super engaging. It's really weird but I've wondered about this before but the game really did nothing to me in the traditional 'punishment' sense of videogame challenge yet it managed to make me feel the same way. Seeing that rain hit your cargo with that little acidic sound effect and rust setting in was worse than traditional punishment.

[XxEvil AshxX]

As I've gotten older I find I have way less patience for hard games. I still enjoy a slight challenge, nobody really wants a cake-walk, cuz at that point you're just going through the motions. But I don't feel like re-playing the same level or boss fight over and over to "get gud." I don't get any fulfillment out of it, i just feel like i'm wasting my time.

 

I do like really challenging puzzle games though; games that arent so much about quick reflexes and survival but figuring out tough puzzles at my own pace. I loved The Witness, even if I haven't beat it yet.

 

Edit: Fuck sliding-tile puzzles though, and fuck anything that rotates outer rings while you rotate an inner ring. You know what bullshit i'm talking about.

[Bjomesphat]

13 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

I like challenge that is built into the experience and learning curve.  I dislike challenge that is selected from a menu.

 

Ooo I like this.

 

I love a good challenge and I'm not intimidated by any kind of game, with that said, I rarely go above the standard difficulty because I don't just want an artificial increase. I want to play the game how the developer tuned it for and is intended to play.

 

I often find difficulty from a menu just turns into frustration and tedium, whereas a hard game on it's own like Souls or Celeste is very rewarding.

[Bloodporne]

5 minutes ago, XxEvil AshxX said:

As I've gotten older I find I have way less patience for hard games. I still enjoy a slight challenge, nobody really wants a cake-walk, cuz at that point you're just going through the motions. But I don't feel like re-playing the same level or boss fight over and over to "get gud." I don't get any fulfillment out of it, i just feel like i'm wasting my time.

 

I do like really challenging puzzle games though; games that arent so much about quick reflexes and survival but figuring out tough puzzles at my own pace. I loved The Witness, even if I haven't beat it yet.

 

Edit: Fuck sliding-tile puzzles though, and fuck anything that rotates outer rings while you rotate an inner ring. You know what bullshit i'm talking about.

Onimusha had a brutal sliding-tile puzzle WITH a super strict time limit AND a bullshit save system combined. 

 

That one will haunt me forever.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

One of my favorite games in terms of difficulty was Jak II on the PS2. Playing it on Hero mode (hard) wasn’t really that much harder. You could die more easily, but with the same abilities and weapon upgrades, and more mastery of the gameplay mechanics you could beat the game with far less deaths than your first time. Sure more of the game may have been a clencher, as there was less margin for error, but you had everything you needed. 
 

ME1 I felt had a good feel on Insanity. It felt more balanced than ME2 (way too fucking hard) or ME3 (easier than your first play through). Enemies got ability upgrades and some had different or more advanced/aggressive tactics. It was the first time I felt the need to manage my party members. It also had me mix powers in ways I never needed to before. I still felt powerful and capable, I just needed to use different/better tactics. 
 

I love Destiny, but feel like it is a mixed bag. Bungie likes to increase enemy HP while also increasing enemy damage as a starting point. And keep ratcheting up until you can get two-shot by the weakest enemy. Then use enemy types that require specific weapon(mods) to kill effectively (or at all), which drastically limits your loadout potential. They also add time limits, and respawn restrictions where you either have an annoyingly long respawn time or it fails the activity and exits you from the activity. Sometimes the balance feels good. Other times it feels like they only wanted the top 5% of players to be able to do it and in all likely hood nobody at Bungie knows if the activity is even completable or not. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

I play games for the "experience" -- and what I get from the experience may change from game to game.  I _TRY_ to get enjoyment out of what the game designer is trying to do.  In some cases it is primarily from the story, in others from the game mechanics, or the puzzles, or a combination of all three.

 

I generally dislike it when games waste my time, deliberately hide mechanics from me so I can "discover them", have crappy writing, are way too easy or become challenging for the sake of being challenging.

[gamer.tv]

Some games I do - mostly 2D and 3D platforms which offer that additional challenge mode or competitive online games. Most games though I play on easy just to enjoy the gameplay and the story. I’m well past the need to be good at the games I play and just want the fun aspect of them.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

It entirely depends on the sense of accomplishment I feel from overcoming the challenge.

 

For example, I really feel an incredible adrenaline rush for clearing a level of DOOM Eternal on one of the harder difficulty levels because all of the various gameplay mechanics hit the right psychological/physiological receptors with me to genuinely want to engage with it at that level.

 

In contrast, I just finished Resident Evil 3 Remake on the easiest ("Assisted") difficulty level and have no regrets about that whatsoever as the gameplay elements simply don't hit the same motivators for me to want to play it at a higher difficulty.

[skillzdadirecta]

6 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

It entirely depends on the sense of accomplishment I feel from overcoming the challenge.

 

For example, I really feel an incredible adrenaline rush for clearing a level of DOOM Eternal on one of the harder difficulty levels because all of the various gameplay mechanics hit the right psychological/physiological receptors with me to genuinely want to engage with it at that level.

 

In contrast, I just finished Resident Evil 3 Remake on the easiest ("Assisted") difficulty level and have no regrets about that whatsoever as the gameplay elements simply don't hit the same motivators for me to want to play it at a higher difficulty.

 

Agreed on both points especially about Resident Evil 3make. I beat it on hard I think, and that was enough. The gameplay in that game just doesn't justify trying to tackle it at harder difficulties because there is little to no actual "Skill" involved.  Just spongy braindead enemies. Game is very pretty though. 

[Bloodporne]

9 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

It entirely depends on the sense of accomplishment I feel from overcoming the challenge.

 

For example, I really feel an incredible adrenaline rush for clearing a level of DOOM Eternal on one of the harder difficulty levels because all of the various gameplay mechanics hit the right psychological/physiological receptors with me to genuinely want to engage with it at that level.

 

In contrast, I just finished Resident Evil 3 Remake on the easiest ("Assisted") difficulty level and have no regrets about that whatsoever as the gameplay elements simply don't hit the same motivators for me to want to play it at a higher difficulty.

That's basically the crux of what I was trying to get at with most of my  post I think.

[BloodyHell]

On 3/2/2021 at 10:33 AM, Fizzzzle said:

I don't remember, I was like 12 years old at the time lol. It has never been an issue since. Also, I think the last time I played it, I leveled the shit out of Quina's enemy abilities, and he/she/they was a fucking beast by the later parts of the game. Blue magic has always been a thing in FF games where it's like, if you REALLY want to, you can break the fucking game. Like Gau in FFVI. They just count on most players not taking the time to do it.

Oh yeah, Gau is a beast if you put time into getting his abilities.

[Chris-]

I like challenge but I don’t necessarily seek it out. It helps that my gaming skills are more or less average, so ‘Normal’ difficulty will suffice in most cases. 

[Firewithin]

unless its a dark souls type game no.  ill play on normal or easy most of the time as i just want to escape life and not really try to frustrate myself more than normal   and just experience whatever game im playing