Roe v. Wade is dead

[SaysWho?]

 

[Ominous]

1 hour ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Supreme Court Leans Toward Coach in Case on School Prayer - The New York Times

WWW.NYTIMES.COM

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Members of the court’s conservative majority indicated that the coach, Joseph A. Kennedy, had a constitutional right to kneel and pray at the 50-yard line after games.

It’s already on the docket! (And also nyt has such a shit summary)

It's not school sponsored....but if you don't join in you'll be cut from the team and everyone in the school will call you what ever it is that religious nuts call people that don't follow their cult.

[brucoe]

1 hour ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Supreme Court Leans Toward Coach in Case on School Prayer - The New York Times

WWW.NYTIMES.COM

---

Members of the court’s conservative majority indicated that the coach, Joseph A. Kennedy, had a constitutional right to kneel and pray at the 50-yard line after games.

It’s already on the docket! (And also nyt has such a shit summary)

One of the weirdest experiences I had was while working for an HBCU in Texas. They never asked about religion when interviewed, but a couple of weeks into actually working there, I noticed a trend for mandatory assemblies in the main auditorium that were essentially prayer sessions and random sermons by religious leaders from the community. Opting out was basically forbidden.

 

To make it worse, some of the higher ups in administration were some of the most corrupt individuals I'd ever encountered, including the president who would often start every speech to the auditorium with the fact that he owned 6 Rolls Royces and you could, too, if you worked hard. Meanwhile, he kept asking the professors to take pay cuts because they were always running out of money.

 

That's often what I think of when I see the dissolving of church and state in this country. Lack of accountability causes all sorts of problems that are never actually solved.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

1 hour ago, Ominous said:

It's not school sponsored....but if you don't join in you'll be cut from the team and everyone in the school will call you what ever it is that religious nuts call people that don't follow their cult.

And he shouldn’t even have standing since he moved out of state and no longer works for the school

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

And he shouldn’t even have standing since he moved out of state and no longer works for the school

He no longer works for the school because he got fired, which is what the law suit is about  

 

The school actually has an interesting position here, which is that their decision wasn’t per se based on opposition to religious expression but instead concern for legal liability if somebody else took issue with the prayers.

I haven’t read all the lower court rulings completely, but I believe they sided with school not on the basis that the prayers were an establishment clause violation but that indeed the school district had good reason to seek to avoid lawsuits on the basis of a potential establishment clause violation.

 

[legend]

I don't typically care for TYT, but I endorse this rant.

 

 

[Comet]

12 hours ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

How is this going to affect the current migration from blue to red states, especially Texas?

 

As a Texan, I have debated this for years (well since 2016). I vacillate between trying to be a proponent of change in this state, to help turn it purple and maybe one day blue - vs. just getting the hell out of here. I just keep saving up and saving up thinking that one day the state will truly lose it's shit and I need to move my kids somewhere else (eyeing Oregon, Washington state, Colorado). We'll see.

[CitizenVectron]

Just now, Comet said:

As a Texan, I have debated this for years (well since 2016). I vacillate between trying to be a proponent of change in this state, to help turn it purple and maybe one day blue - vs. just getting the hell out of here. I just keep saving up and saving up thinking that one day the state will truly lose it's shit and I need to move my kids somewhere else (eyeing Oregon, Washington state, Colorado). We'll see.

 

Do you have any girls? For me, I think this would be a possible straw-breaking-the-back change, if I did. Fortunately I do not, and am not in that position.

[Firewithin]

very cool.

 

 

[Comet]

3 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

Do you have any girls? For me, I think this would be a possible straw-breaking-the-back change, if I did. Fortunately I do not, and am not in that position.

No girls, but that doesn't mean they might not grow up to be trans or gay. Who knows which of their existing rights today could be infringed upon. We're also hispanic (though definitely pass as just white), so there's that aspect of it as well. My oldest has already been exposed to enough xenophobia (maybe at school?) that he feels like he has to hide the fact that he's half-Mexican. He's only 7...

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

28 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

He no longer works for the school because he got fired, which is what the law suit is about  

 

The school actually has an interesting position here, which is that their decision wasn’t per se based on opposition to religious expression but instead concern for legal liability if somebody else took issue with the prayers.

I haven’t read all the lower court rulings completely, but I believe they sided with school not on the basis that the prayers were an establishment clause violation but that indeed the school district had good reason to seek to avoid lawsuits on the basis of a potential establishment clause violation.

 

He was not fired. He was placed on leave for violating district policy and importantly did not seek to reapply for his job when his contract ended. It may seem like this doesn’t matter but it does. Teachers are told repeatedly that their jobs are not guaranteed between contracts and if you violate policy you probably won’t get offered a contract extension. This happens all the time. So if the policy is somehow in violation of the constitution what is the remedy? That he be given a contract extension for a job he didn’t try to reapply for?

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

He was not fired. He was placed on leave for violating district policy and importantly did not seek to reapply for his job when his contract ended. It may seem like this doesn’t matter but it does. Teachers are told repeatedly that their jobs are not guaranteed between contracts and if you violate policy you probably won’t get offered a contract extension. This happens all the time. So if the policy is somehow in violation of the constitution what is the remedy? That he be given a contract extension for a job he didn’t try to reapply for?

LOL, ask your teacher wife if this is how teachers get fired most of the time. It absolutely is, and amusingly you were actually the first person who explained that to me in a previous thread years back!

[CitizenVectron]

35 minutes ago, Firewithin said:

very cool.

 

 

 

This will 100% be used against women with miscarriages as well. If someone miscarries 4 or 5 months in and needs surgery (or medication) to pass the fetus, the state will probably want the info reported so they can investigate. I can already read the headlines now, about how a women is at fault for a miscarriage because she willingly did "high risk" activities such as jogging, etc. Another way to control women.

[Ghost_MH]

1 hour ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

This will 100% be used against women with miscarriages as well. If someone miscarries 4 or 5 months in and needs surgery (or medication) to pass the fetus, the state will probably want the info reported so they can investigate. I can already read the headlines now, about how a women is at fault for a miscarriage because she willingly did "high risk" activities such as jogging, etc. Another way to control women.

 

Yup. My wife had a medical abortion for a 4 month miscarriage. It was either that or carry a dead fetus for who knows how long until her body would naturally abort...or even carry it to full term. Both of those options sound horrific.

[Zaku3]

10 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

Yup. My wife had a medical abortion for a 4 month miscarriage. It was either that or carry and dead fetus for who knows how long until her body would naturally abort...or even carry it to full term. Both of those options sound horrific.

 

Those options are pretty grim dark.

 

My mom had an abortion before she was pregnant with me. I think the egg implanted in her felopian tubes so it had to go. 

[Zaku3]

1 hour ago, Comet said:

As a Texan, I have debated this for years (well since 2016). I vacillate between trying to be a proponent of change in this state, to help turn it purple and maybe one day blue - vs. just getting the hell out of here. I just keep saving up and saving up thinking that one day the state will truly lose it's shit and I need to move my kids somewhere else (eyeing Oregon, Washington state, Colorado). We'll see.

 

Isn't the growth largely driven by conservatives moving out of state to Texas, etc?

 

My concern about living in Texas is that as a red leaning state I wouldn't want to be living in such a place should a 2nd ACW break out. It's a problem with most areas since most blue areas are islands in a sea of red but I'd imagine it be worse in major red leaning places like the Southern states.

 

Also I really hate how red is the color of repubs in the US.

[Comet]

1 minute ago, Zaku3 said:

 

Isn't the growth largely driven by conservatives moving out of state to Texas, etc?

 

My concern about living in Texas is that as a red leaning state I wouldn't want to be living in such a place should a 2nd ACW break out. It's a problem with most areas since most blue areas are islands in a sea of red but I'd imagine it be worse in major red leaning places like the Southern states.

 

Also I really hate how red is the color of repubs in the US.

The growth is really varied. For the last 5 years there's been a large influx of migration to Texas from areas such as Chicago and California. A lot of companies have relocated headquarters to the area because of the pro-business tax setup. As areas like California continue to rise in price, people are cashing out of their homes there and buying McMansion-sized homes in Texas for much less than what they pocketed from their home sales.  Because of that, there's been a lot of moderate to left-leaning demographics moving to Texas. 

What has been working against Democrats in Texas since 2016 is how quickly the Dems have lost hispanic support here for a multitude of reasons. The Trump/Biden split was eye opening in 2020. The right Democratic candidate, in theory, could galvanize support to make this state potentially flip blue. I just have no faith in Democratic leadership. As much as I like people like Beto, his platform and messaging is all wrong for what could flip Texas. 

[Signifyin(g)Monkey]

1 hour ago, Firewithin said:

very cool.

 

 

 

Yeah but this will get struck down by the Supreme Cou...actually nevermind.

[skillzdadirecta]

1 hour ago, Comet said:

No girls, but that doesn't mean they might not grow up to be trans or gay. Who knows which of their existing rights today could be infringed upon. We're also hispanic (though definitely pass as just white), so there's that aspect of it as well. My oldest has already been exposed to enough xenophobia (maybe at school?) that he feels like he has to hide the fact that he's half-Mexican. He's only 7...

This is the bullshit that pisses me off about the Right Wing's CRT panic and all of the concern about schools "making white kids feel bad about themselves." I can't think of ONE minority in this country who has not been made to feel less than because of who they are when they were going to school in predominately white environments. Asians, Middle Easterners, Hispanics etc... You always hear the same stories. Makes me realize how lucky I was growing up and going to schools in my formative years where I WASN'T a minority because I've seen first hand the effect that has on children at a young age. Hopefully you can make your son understand there's nothing wrong with him and he should be proud of who he is.

[Ghost_MH]

24 minutes ago, Zaku3 said:

Those options are pretty grim dark.

 

My mom had an abortion before she was pregnant with me. I think the egg implanted in her felopian tubes so it had to go. 

 

Yup. I know two separate people that are 1000000% pro-life, but got pregnant with IUDs and required abortions. One for the abortion right away. The other tried to not get the abortion, but needed one when it was clear the baby wouldn't survive. Choices. What a thing they are. However, that's also the reason Missouri is looking to ban IUDs. Yup, let's just ban the cheapest birth control on the market that also has the fewest side effects.

[Zaku3]

1 minute ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

 However, that's also the reason Missouri is looking to ban IUDs. Yup, let's just ban the cheapest birth control on the market that also has the fewest side effects.

 

Galaxy brain strats.

[ort]

I haven't really had the time or energy to engage with this bombshell...

 

But is it possible that this ends up blowing up in their faces? Don't like 75%+ percent of the population support safe legal abortions?

 

Overturning Roe v Wade always felt like such an impossible nightmare fantasy, now that it's actually happening and will have huge real world effects on millions and millions of people, especially those in red states, it could really cause a huge backlash. Right? Or am I being optimistic.

 

I feel like this is a dog that caught the car moment.

 

The craziest thing is that this is all possible because of Trump tilting the court so hard to the right, and he could possibly be the least pro-life republican ever. He clearly doesn't give any fucks about the issue beyond using it to cater to his base. There is a 0.000000% chance that this man has not paid for or encouraged people in his life to have abortions. 0.00000000%.

[stepee]

Just now, ort said:

I haven't really had the time or energy to engage with this bombshell...

 

But is it possible that this ends up blowing up in their faces? Don't like 75%+ percent of the population support safe legal abortions?

 

Overturning Roe v Wade always felt like such a pipe dream, now that it's actually happening and will have huge real world effects on millions and millions of people, especially those in red states, it could really cause a huge backlash. Right? Or am I being optimistic.

 

I feel like this is a dog that caught the car moment.

 

The craziest thing is that this is all possible because of Trump tilting the court so hard to the right, and he could possibly be the least pro-life republican ever. He clearly doesn't give any fucks about the issue beyond using it to cater to his base. There is a 0.000000% chance that this man has not paid for or encouraged people in his life to have abortions. 0.00000000%.

 

Republicans will probably just hide from it and act like they didn’t have a part in the ruling so they aren’t responsible and blame democrats for letting things get out of control and then everyone will buy into it.

[skillzdadirecta]

2 minutes ago, ort said:

I haven't really had the time or energy to engage with this bombshell...

 

But is it possible that this ends up blowing up in their faces? Don't like 75%+ percent of the population support safe legal abortions?

 

Overturning Roe v Wade always felt like such an impossible nightmare fantasy, now that it's actually happening and will have huge real world effects on millions and millions of people, especially those in red states, it could really cause a huge backlash. Right? Or am I being optimistic.

 

I feel like this is a dog that caught the car moment.

 

The craziest thing is that this is all possible because of Trump tilting the court so hard to the right, and he could possibly be the least pro-life republican ever. He clearly doesn't give any fucks about the issue beyond using it to cater to his base. There is a 0.000000% chance that this man has not paid for or encouraged people in his life to have abortions. 0.00000000%.

The guy said he wouldn't appoint any justices to the court who wouldn't be willing to overtutn Roe. He doesn't care about the issue, he cares about how the issue galavanizes his worshipers. But this really shouldn;t be a surprise... They've been looking to overturn this and other rulings for years.

[Chris-]

What’s really going to be funny is when Peter Thiel (who deserves the bullet first and foremost) watches his monster go after gay rights next. 

[skillzdadirecta]

1 minute ago, Chris- said:

What’s really going to be funny is when Peter Thiel (who deserves the bullet first and foremost) watches his monster go after gay rights next. 

I don't think he gives a shit.

[chakoo]

1 hour ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

Yup. My wife had a medical abortion for a 4 month miscarriage. It was either that or carry a dead fetus for who knows how long until her body would naturally abort...or even carry it to full term. Both of those options sound horrific.

 

We've sadly gone through 2 mid term miscarriage (1 heart didn't develop, 2nd sack ruptured and while she had contractions she never went into full labor after 3 weeks and was loosing blood so it had to be medically induced), then 2 normal early miscarriages before successful having our little girl on the 5th try. I've been very vocal about how easily a pregnancy can go south mid way through the process, through no fault or doing anything, and it's emotionally scarring. The shit the GOP is pulling makes my blood boil and we would have given up after the first try if we were in the states (i mean we almost were thinking it after the emotional toll with the second failure).

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Comet said:

We're also hispanic (though definitely pass as just white), so there's that aspect of it as well. My oldest has already been exposed to enough xenophobia (maybe at school?) that he feels like he has to hide the fact that he's half-Mexican. He's only 7...

This makes me sad. My two sons are quite obviously Hispanic, but aside from that, we embrace our mixed up cultural identities anyway. We don’t have our kids in a traditional school environment, but our kids have done a classical education co-op since they were tiny. It’s a majority white space, but the kids have never had an issue with being their authentic selves.

 

I do think it is unsurprising that our oldest has a best friend there who is also multiracial (Colombian on his dad’s side, Irish/Japanese on his mom’s side). There is some shared experiences that those of us in the multiracial  world can all appreciate.

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I don't think he gives a shit.

It makes exactly zero difference to Thiel if laws in some states change against him. That’s all that matters to him.

[Chris-]

6 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

It makes exactly zero difference to Thiel if laws in some states change against him. That’s all that matters to him.

I would not be so quick to assume that kind of scope. 

[Zaku3]

11 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

This makes me sad. My two sons are quite obviously Hispanic, but aside from that, we embrace our mixed up cultural identities anyway. We don’t have our kids in a traditional school environment, but our kids have done a classical education co-op since they were tiny. It’s a majority white space, but the kids have never had an issue with being their authentic selves.

 

I do think it is unsurprising that our oldest has a best friend there who is also multiracial (Colombian on his dad’s side, Irish/Japanese on his mom’s side). There is some shared experiences that those of us in the multiracial  world can all appreciate.

 

I'm Col9mbian on my mom's side. (Barranquilla to be more exact) Arabic and Puerto Rican on my father's side.

[ort]

He's rich and powerful enough that non of the stuff they would overturn would really matter to him.

 

Gay marriage? He has enough money that none of the legal stuff that goes with being married matters. Same for discrimination etc... has no effect on him.

[osxmatt]

56 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

The guy said he wouldn't appoint any justices to the court who wouldn't be willing to overtutn Roe. He doesn't care about the issue, he cares about how the issue galavanizes his worshipers. But this really shouldn;t be a surprise... They've been looking to overturn this and other rulings for years.

He also cares that it's his accomplishment. There's no doubt when he runs in 2024 he will say "I overturned Roe v Wade."

[Comet]

1 hour ago, skillzdadirecta said:

This is the bullshit that pisses me off about the Right Wing's CRT panic and all of the concern about schools "making white kids feel bad about themselves." I can't think of ONE minority in this country who has not been made to feel less than because of who they are when they were going to school in predominately white environments. Asians, Middle Easterners, Hispanics etc... You always hear the same stories. Makes me realize how lucky I was growing up and going to schools in my formative years where I WASN'T a minority because I've seen first hand the effect that has on children at a young age. Hopefully you can make your son understand there's nothing wrong with him and he should be proud of who he is.

He'll be fine, and ironically it's movies like Encanto and Coco which make him feel more cool about being hispanic. This is why those multi-cultural films and media can be so important for kids. I grew up in a border town so literally 80% of everyone there was just like me. Either 1st generation Mexican-American, or a subsequent generation of the same. It felt so normal to me. Back then, the name of the game was cultural assimilation whether we were explicitly aware of it or not. I rolled my eyes when my mom packed burritos for my school lunch when my friends all got pizza and burgers or god forbid steak fingers. Then you grow up, you mature, you realize that where we come from is something to embrace - it's an advantage in many many ways. 
 

24 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

This makes me sad. My two sons are quite obviously Hispanic, but aside from that, we embrace our mixed up cultural identities anyway. We don’t have our kids in a traditional school environment, but our kids have done a classical education co-op since they were tiny. It’s a majority white space, but the kids have never had an issue with being their authentic selves.

 

I do think it is unsurprising that our oldest has a best friend there who is also multiracial (Colombian on his dad’s side, Irish/Japanese on his mom’s side). There is some shared experiences that those of us in the multiracial  world can all appreciate.

It's funny you say that about your oldest. My oldest's best friends are a Vietnamese boy and a Korean girl. Our neighborhood is extremely diverse which is awesome, but even then he still got the notion that being Mexican isn't cool. He's a lot like me so I know not to force any identity on him. He'll figure it out on his own with time. 

[skillzdadirecta]

2 minutes ago, Comet said:

He'll be fine, and ironically it's movies like Encanto and Coco which make him feel more cool about being hispanic. This is why those multi-cultural films and media can be so important for kids.

This is SOOO true.  One of the reasons why fanbiys getting upset about the "wokification" of games and genre media is so irritating to me.