Roe v. Wade is dead

[Ghost_MH]

55 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

There’s still going to be a ton of not poor women who suffer because not being in poverty doesn’t mean that you can magically afford a trip to California or Ontario or wherever, to say nothing of their social ability to go to these places for an impromptu “vacation”.

 

It really does affect all but the actual *wealthy*. Like yes, the poor will suffer most. But do you know who this country fucking hates? The poor! It’s a womens issue not a poor woman’s issue!

 

It affects way more than women seeking abortions. The law scheduled to hit in Missouri bans IUDs. If you're a woman looking for a non-hormonal birth control what are your options then? Tubal ligation?

 

It also bans IVF and that's something that squarely fair on child's I would consider not poor.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

5 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

It affects way more than women seeking abortions. The law scheduled to hit in Missouri bans IUDs. If you're a woman looking for a non-hormonal birth control what are your options then? Tubal ligation?

 

It also bans IVF and that's something that squarely fair on child's I would consider not poor.

Yeah I mean I didn’t dig into all of the issues here. But also griswold v CT is on the chopping block when roe falls so there’s safe noninvasive contraception that can become illegal as well. 
 

the fact is these people hate women and hate the idea of non-procreative sex so anything that stems from these ideas is going to be tried next. Several republicans have all but admitted it will happen! 

[stepee]

 

 

[CitizenVectron]

Yes this affects men and everyone in general, but it's obviously a women's issue first and foremost. There were some white slaves as well in the 19th century, but if someone was presenting on the impact of slavery on Black culture in the western hemisphere I wouldn't say "well this is a white issue, too."

[stepee]

1 minute ago, CitizenVectron said:

Yes this affects men and everyone in general, but it's obviously a women's issue first and foremost. There were some white slaves as well in the 19th century, but if someone was presenting on the impact of slavery on Black culture in the western hemisphere I wouldn't say "well this is a white issue, too."

 

I have however most certainly seen people trying to make that argument!

[mclumber1]

This is a sex issue, not a gender issue.  Males and Females.  Not men and women. 

[Kal-El814]

Just now, mclumber1 said:

This is a sex issue, not a gender issue.  Males and Females.  Not men and women. 

 

Men can have uteruses and I don’t trust anyone on the “pro-life” spectrum to have any kind of nuanced understanding of gender or sex to begin with.

[Chris-]

8 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

This is a sex issue, not a gender issue.  Males and Females.  Not men and women. 

I thought the crown was firmly entrenched on Demut’s head yet here we are.

[stepee]

There are some amazing takes in this thread lmao 

[AbsolutSurgen]

19 minutes ago, stepee said:

 

 

Men can have wombs too. 

[stepee]

 

 

[AbsolutSurgen]

38 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

Yes this affects men and everyone in general, but it's obviously a women's issue first and foremost. There were some white slaves as well in the 19th century, but if someone was presenting on the impact of slavery on Black culture in the western hemisphere I wouldn't say "well this is a white issue, too."

 

I was clearly trolling the lack of inclusive language that was being used here.

 

[brucoe]

Part of me believes that a huge drive towards this anti-woman mentality is the perception of a lot of right-wing men who basically never had any luck in sexual relations, and thus have developed this mindset that their religion is the way to strike back at this belief that so many women are experiencing sex but just not with them. Forcing these women to carry out these pregnancies is basically their way of getting revenge for never being invited to the imaginary orgy they assume must be happening with all the cooler kids.

[Zaku3]

17 minutes ago, brucoe said:

Part of me believes that a huge drive towards this anti-woman mentality is the perception of a lot of right-wing men who basically never had any luck in sexual relations, and thus have developed this mindset that their religion is the way to strike back at this belief that so many women are experiencing sex but just not with them. Forcing these women to carry out these pregnancies is basically their way of getting revenge for never being invited to the imaginary orgy they assume must be happening with all the cooler kids.

 

The vendiagram of incels and right wing/alt right types is probably a circle.

 

Edit: Glad I never fell into that. Haven't had much luck with women in my life. Having said that for better or worse my relationship with my ex-wife id the highlight of my existance still. Women are awesome but dangerous.

[stepee]

4 minutes ago, Zaku3 said:

 

The vendiagram of incels and right wing/alt right types is probably a circle.

 

Edit: Glad I never fell into that. Haven't had much luck with women in my life. Having said that for better or worse my relationship with my ex-wife id the highlight of my existance still. Women are awesome but dangerous.

 

No way your wife would have let you buy that many portable gaming pcs, so maybe it was for the best!

[brucoe]

I usually refer to my girlfriend as my imaginary girlfriend from Canada. Strangely enough, the only reason she doesn't like that description is because she's from Houston and has never been to Canada.

[skillzdadirecta]

15 hours ago, CayceG said:

Skillz is right. 

 

 

Just because it SHOULD happen, doesn't mean that it WILL happen. And history has shown us that political violence in the US since 1919 has come from the right wing. 

To be clear, I'm not even advocating for violence. I'm advocating for everyone to get off their asses and put their money where their mouths are and be politically active EVERY election season and not just every four years. Also be active at the state and local level because THOSE elections have more affect on your day to day lives than the flashier federal ones. We're all educated and informed people here who know what the issues are and what's at stake and we STILL need some messianic figure to "inspire" us to go the polls and vote for shit when the choices have never been clearer? Pick an issue and you'll find the Republicans are on the wrong side of it. If you're even remotely concerned about the environment, the choice should be clear between the two sides. Again to be clear I am not advocating for political violence of any kind and I never have. I'm a black muslim man in the United States of America and I don't have the luxury of casually talking about politcal violence in a public forum especially when I know what the consequences of political violence has had on my community. I just find the notion of some kind of populist uprising sprouting from progressives to be extremely hilarious. Just go vote and be active politically before we form the rebel alliance. And pay attention when the other side tells you what they're gonna do and why they're doing it. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

According to this morning's poll from Politico's (page 184):

Do you think abortion should be:

Total    Male   Female

25%     21%     29%     Legal in All Cases

31%     33%     29%     Legal in most cases

24%     26%     21%      Illegal in most cases

11%       12%     11%     Illegal in All Cases

9%         8%      11%     Don't know / No Opinion

 

The gender divide does not seem to be as wide some as some are suggesting here.

[marioandsonic]

18 minutes ago, Zaku3 said:

 

The vendiagram of incels and right wing/alt right types is probably a circle.

 

Edit: Glad I never fell into that. Haven't had much luck with women in my life. Having said that for better or worse my relationship with my ex-wife id the highlight of my existance still. Women are awesome but dangerous.

 

I never had any luck with women, and probably never will, because I've given up trying.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

1 minute ago, skillzdadirecta said:

To be clear, I'm not even advocating for violence. I'm advocating for everyone to get off their asses and put their money where their mouths are and be politically active EVERY election season and not just every four years. Also be active at the state and local level because THOSE elections have more effect on your day to day lives than the flashier federal ones. We're all educated and informed people here who know that the issues are and what's at stake and we STILL need some messianic figure to "inspire" us to go the polls and vote for shit when the choices have never been clearer? Pick an issue and you'll find the Republicans are on the wrong side of it. If you're even remotely concerned about the environment, the choice should be clear between the two sides. Again to be clear I am not advocating for political violence of any kind and I never have. I'm a black muslim man in the United States of America and I don't have the luxury of casually talking about politcal violence in a public forum especially when I know what the consequences of political violence has had on my community. I just find the notion of some kind of populist uprising sprouting from progressives to be extremely hilarious. Just go vote and be active politically before we form the rebel alliance. And pay attention when the other side tells you what they're gonna do and why they're doing it. 

And the other side has spent the past few decades filling up local security services with their political operatives. 

[skillzdadirecta]

1 hour ago, stepee said:

There are some amazing takes in this thread lmao 

Told you.

[Guest]

This thread is wild

[skillzdadirecta]

8 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

And the other side has spent the past few decades filling up local security services with their political operatives. 

EXACTLY. Because progressives have been tweeting and occasionally showing up for national elections and going home satisfied that the job is over when it isn't while conservatives have been mobilizing and voting. I have a friend who works used to work for a juvenile justice advocacy group and he would tell me how crazy these state legislatures are when he and his team would go to advocate for criminal justice reform for juveniles. It really does start at the state and local level... conservatives have figured this out and have been playing the long game.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

9 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

According to this morning's poll from Politico's (page 184):

Do you think abortion should be:

Total    Male   Female

25%     21%     29%     Legal in All Cases

31%     33%     29%     Legal in most cases

24%     26%     21%      Illegal in most cases

11%       12%     11%     Illegal in All Cases

9%         8%      11%     Don't know / No Opinion

 

The gender divide does not seem to be as wide some as some are suggesting here.

It’s not the gender gap so much as it is suburban women (read: college educated and or white) and the total for illegal in most/all cases adding up to all of 35%. This is bad for republicans and it would be wise for dems to hammer it home, or for republicans move on to another story

 

[johnny]

9 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

EXACTLY. Because progressives have been tweeting and occasionally showing up for national elections and going home satisfied that the job is over when it isn't 

the progressives i know are way more tuned in to politics than the more center and left leaning people. yeah maybe they dont vote how you want every time but i would bet they are more engaged with politics from local to the world than the average democrat. progressives don't have the numbers you think nationwide. somebody voting for bernie isnt automatically progressive. somebody saying "eh both sides suck" isn't automatically progressive. tired of this dumbass lie that dem leadership likes to spin about how it's the progressives fault for whatever they fuck up. 

[mclumber1]

1 hour ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

Men can have uteruses and I don’t trust anyone on the “pro-life” spectrum to have any kind of nuanced understanding of gender or sex to begin with.

 

I'm pro-choice though

[skillzdadirecta]

15 minutes ago, johnny said:

the progressives i know are way more tuned in to politics than the more center and left leaning people. yeah maybe they dont vote how you want every time but i would bet they are more engaged with politics from local to the world than the average democrat. progressives don't have the numbers you think nationwide. somebody voting for bernie isnt automatically progressive. somebody saying "eh both sides suck" isn't automatically progressive. tired of this dumbass lie that dem leadership likes to spin about how it's the progressives fault for whatever they fuck up. 

I'm not soley blaming progressives... again, my initial post was holding VOTERS responsible. All of voters. Our turnouts in elections in non presidential years is abysmal and doesn't match the same fervor you see online especially from the Dem side and yes, progressives as well. I know a hell of a lot of progressives too and while they may be more informed, what they DO with that information doesn't often match their online enthusiasm. My buddy who i mentioned before who used to teach at fucking BERKLEY of all places confirmed the same thing with what he saw in his students there. It is what it is. Go vote.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

EXACTLY. Because progressives have been tweeting and occasionally showing up for national elections and going home satisfied that the job is over when it isn't while conservatives have been mobilizing and voting. I have a friend who works used to work for a juvenile justice advocacy group and he would tell me how crazy these state legislatures are when he and his team would go to advocate for criminal justice reform for juveniles. It really does start at the state and local level... conservatives have figured this out and have been playing the long game.

What is bonkers is how few votes often decide things like small city mayoral races, or city council races. So much of that moves up the chain too as few people in higher state offices get there with no lower level experience.

 

I have actually done the horrifically boring task of neighborhood walks for local candidates, literally door to door encouraging people to vote for a candidate or in some cases a specific local issue.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

1 minute ago, skillzdadirecta said:

EXACTLY. Because progressives have been tweeting and occasionally showing up for national elections and going home satisfied that the job is over when it isn't while conservatives have been mobilizing and voting. I have a friend who works used to work for a juvenile justice advocacy group and he would tell me how crazy these state legislatures are when he and his team would go to advocate for criminal justice reform for juveniles. It really does start at the state and local level... conservatives have figured this out and have been playing the long game.

Yep. They’ve been playing this game since before I’ve were born. The federalist society, the fringe conservative legal group whose members now include all 6 conservative justices, was founded in the shadow of the decisions of the Warren court, the breaking of the new deal coalition/Republican southern strategy, and the Goldwater presidential bid. They’ve overtaken the institutional Republican Party legal wing and can now effectively rule by judicial decree. 
 

but I don’t think it’s one part of the coalition not showing up or whatever that has caused this. The nature of our dumb electoral systems benefit the nonpresidential party in midterms and it takes a LOT to undo that. Like literally 9/11 for the presidential party to not lose seats in a midterm. And it just so happens that now there’s more straight ticket voting and dems have won the presidency a majority of the time since the early 90’s. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

34 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

It’s not the gender gap so much as it is suburban women (read: college educated and or white) and the total for illegal in most/all cases adding up to all of 35%. This is bad for republicans and it would be wise for dems to hammer it home, or for republicans move on to another story

 

I suspect you're right.  I'll be honest, I don't know the regional breakdowns in the US -- but I suspect it is very politically rational for some Congressmen/Senators to support abortion for their own individual election, even though it doesn't make sense for the party as a whole.

[johnny]

11 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I'm not soley blaming progressives... again, my initial post was holding VOTERS responsible. All of voters. Our turnouts in elections in non presidential years is abysmal and doesn't match the same fervor you see online especially from the Dem side and yes, progressives as well. I know a hell of a lot of progressives too and while they may be more informed, what they DO with that information doesn't often match their online enthusiasm. My buddy who i mentioned before who used to teach at fucking BERKLEY of all places confirmed the same thing with what he saw in his students there. It is what it is. Go vote.

yeah that's fine. i just wasnt gonna stand for progressives taking all of the blame lol. 

 

im 27 so my friend group is about 25-30, and they are slowly getting more politically active. but some of them just really arent into it. they spend their time worrying about other things and couldnt tell you about what's going on at any level except roe v wade is dead and russia invaded ukraine. some people dont care that much and they're not always the people screaming about whatever issue they're mad about. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

"Progressive" is such an ephemeral label that could mean practically anything that I have absolutely no idea why anyone would describe themselves as one to begin with.

[AbsolutSurgen]

Just now, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

"Progressive" is such an ephemeral label that could mean practically anything that I have absolutely no idea why anyone would describe themselves as one to begin with.

[CitizenVectron]

1 hour ago, brucoe said:

Part of me believes that a huge drive towards this anti-woman mentality is the perception of a lot of right-wing men who basically never had any luck in sexual relations, and thus have developed this mindset that their religion is the way to strike back at this belief that so many women are experiencing sex but just not with them. Forcing these women to carry out these pregnancies is basically their way of getting revenge for never being invited to the imaginary orgy they assume must be happening with all the cooler kids.

 

Exhibit A:

 

 

[johnny]

9 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

"Progressive" is such an ephemeral label that could mean practically anything that I have absolutely no idea why anyone would describe themselves as one to begin with.

i only use it because that's the term they want to use to describe anything thats "further left"