Florida might end Disney's self-governance of land over company's stance against "Don't Say Gay" bill

[SaysWho?]

53 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

She was fired because she is an art teacher, that decided to have a discussion about sexuality with her students.

 

The only appropriate place for adults to be having discussions about sexuality with other people's children is during the sexual education portion of the curriculum.  I don't want my kids soccer coaches, scout leaders, dance teachers, art teachers, barbers, etc. having spontaneous conversations with groups of children about sexuality.

 

Talking about your significant other, whether they be the same gender or a different one is perfectly normal.  Telling a group of middle school kids that you're married to a man but attracted to both men and women is none of their fucking business.  She's their teacher, a person in authority, not their friend.

 

And they did something art-related with LGBTQ.

 

Bold seems like a weird distinction to me, especially when we know half of LGBTQ youth seriously contemplated suicide in the past year in America. There's clearly an issue with acceptance of people's orientation, and simply saying you're attracted to everyone is a strange thing as a fire-worthy offense.

 

Most of my teachers growing up, whether they were straight, Democrat, Republican, Hispanic, whatever, had conversations with us, and we discussed/debated in class because we had people with other points of view who we don't get a chance to speak with on a regular basis. You had to be a "teacher," yes, but I can't remember any teacher worth a salt that didn't have some kind of discussion outside of the curriculum.

 

It's also weird because the opposition is coming from the "free speech" crowd who doesn't want to silence people.

[Jason]

2 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

It's also weird because the opposition is coming from the "free speech" crowd who doesn't want to silence people.

 

They do want to silence people, they just don't want to be silenced from voicing their own bigotry.

[Chairslinger]

11 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

and also if you don't think that if she was married to a woman and said she was gay that there wouldn't also be an outcry in a county that voted for Trump by 59-40%, I've got a fucking bridge to sell you

 

 

I mean, that's part if the issue with the law that I think AS has now unintentionally demonstrated.

 

What exactly is "discussing sexuality" as the law vaguely puts it? AS has already said now that it is perfectly normal to say you are married to a man, but to say you are attracted to a man is a horrible fireable offense to which he feels so strongly about that he speaks as though it's almost akin to child abuse.

 

What about if you said you "like men". What if you said you "date men". What if you said you "prefer men". Etc.

 

Not only does the law not specify any of this it's not just a matter of losing in court, it's a matter of schools being scared of being sued out of existence because anyone can basically sue for anything they find objectionable.

 

Also, bold move to take a stand on how pro-LGBTQ proponents are overreacting in the same week it was revealed Lawrence and Obergefell had their legs cut out from under them and may well be dead men walking.

[stepee]

This is just conservatives still thinking that sexuality is a learned behavior and being deathly afraid of their children not being straight because they think that’s a bad thing.

[Guest]

Even in college, the only explicit sexuality talk came during a film appreciation class when the prof showed the, ahem, climax of the porno flick Deep Throat during our class on the 70s and in a Conlaw class when covering Lawrence.

 

And reading both here and from other friends about what they want their kid’s education experience to be, I am rather pleased we kept our children out of that mess  

[Chairslinger]

1 minute ago, stepee said:

This is just conservatives still thinking that sexuality is a learned behavior and being deathly afraid of their children not being straight because they think that’s a bad thing.

 

 

Right, it's just an updated version of "They're going to turn our kids gay!".

 

What we are seeing is a replay of the right learning to say "thug". 

[CastlevaniaNut18]

My high school Civics/US Gov teacher kept a little wooden sign on her desk with man figure + woman figure = marriage. woman + woman =\= marriage, man + man =\= marriage.

 

She also had a discussion with us about how she stopped taking her birth control pills because they actually caused abortion.

[SimpleG]

4 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Talking about your significant other, whether they be the same gender or a different one is perfectly normal.  Telling a group of middle school kids that you're married to a man but attracted to both men and women is none of their fucking business.  She's their teacher, a person in authority, not their friend.

If you clutch your pearls any tighter you are gonna choke yourself out.

[Ghost_MH]

3 hours ago, sblfilms said:

Even in college, the only explicit sexuality talk came during a film appreciation class when the prof showed the, ahem, climax of the porno flick Deep Throat during our class on the 70s and in a Conlaw class when covering Lawrence.

 

And reading both here and from other friends about what they want their kid’s education experience to be, I am rather pleased we kept our children out of that mess  

 

At that point, Sesame Street is out the window for daring to say some families have two dads.

 

I'd make a joke about conservatives going after Elmo, but they already did that.

[Guest]

Do any of you have conversations with other people’s children about your sexual proclivities?

[Air_Delivery]

I agree that a teachers private life should remain private unless there is some context in which it is appropriate. The problem I have is its clear to me that there is a distinction being made by conservatives where discussing LGBT issues is more inapporpriate than heteronormative ones and I think sblfilms and AbsoluteSurgen are intentionally sidestepping that. 

And I think there is selective enforcement going on so you can argue that talking about her own sexual preferences is inapporpriate and a fireable offence I don't the same would have happened if it were heteronormative. Say the teacher says she thinks Brad Pitt is hot. Would should also have been fired? I don't think so.  And I think there would have been a distinction made if she switched Brad for Scarlett Johansson. 

[CitizenVectron]

16 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Do any of you have conversations with other people’s children about your sexual proclivities?

 

I mean, yes, but reduced to me liking women, whereas his dads like men.

[Ghost_MH]

1 hour ago, sblfilms said:

Do any of you have conversations with other people’s children about your sexual proclivities?

 

Do you keep the fact that you have a wife and kids a secret from other people's children?

 

I have told other people's children I'm married and have kids.

 

I've had woman that introduce their wife to my kids. Then when my son responded with "you're a boy?", I was perfectly ok with her correcting him by saying sometimes girls can love other girls and even get married. There's nothing sexual about that conversation. That's the part I'm most annoyed about the angle on this entire subject. Discussions of sexual orientation are not sexual. My son is six. He doesn't understand where babies come from or what sex is or anything like that. He understands love, so the conversation pretty much ends there. These conversations people are freaking out over don't go beyond anything I just said. Conservatives don't want people to acknowledge queer folk exist and the only reason for that is because it makes it easier to otherize those people in the future.

 

Like what do you ask do if one of your kids' friends has dads? Are we really going to pretend that saying dad loves dad the same way your dad loves your mom is somehow sexual and/or inappropriate?

 

We're talking about children here. We aren't talking about orgasms and sex and gross bodily functions or nudity or reproductive organs. We're talking about talk that's so innocent it made its way into Arthur. Daniel Tiger covered pregnancy and nobody batted an eye, but Mr Ratburn is gay and marrying his partner and now it's suddenly inappropriate because...what?

[silentbob]

My first job was at Tim Hortons when I was 17/18 and my manager was gay. We were just a small drive-thru in a gas station but he eventually got a managers job at a real Tim Hortons store front. Sadly a year or 2 after that (20 years ago) he had another younger employee come out too him. The kid asked him questions and how to come out to family. Well they talked and told his family, they didn’t take it well, accused him of grooming him to be gay and he was let go. Don’t think he sued or anything afterwards but would of been a good case for him. Anyways I knew the guy pretty good, as he was the brother of my older sisters best friend (sorry for the Dark Helmet there) So even 20 years ago this shit was happening up here in Southern Ontario.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

Do you keep the fact that you have a wife and kids a secret from other people's children?

 

I have told other people's children I'm married and have kids.

 

I've had woman that introduce their wife to my kids. Then when my son responded with "you're a boy?", I was perfectly ok with her correcting him by saying sometimes girls can love other girls and even get married. There's nothing sexual about that conversation. That's the part I'm most annoyed about the angle on this entire subject. Discussions of sexual orientation are not sexual. My son is six. He doesn't understand where babies come from or what sex is or anything like that. He understands love, so the conversation pretty much ends there. These conversations people are freaking out over don't go beyond anything I just said. Conservatives don't want people to acknowledge queer folk exist and the only reason for that is because it makes it easier to otherize those people in the future.

 

Like what do you ask do if one of your kids' friends has dads? Are we really going to pretend that saying dad loves dad the same way your dad loves your mom is somehow sexual and/or inappropriate?

 

We're talking about children here. We aren't talking about orgasms and sex and gross bodily functions or nudity or reproductive organs. We're talking about talk that's so innocent it made its way into Arthur. Daniel Tiger covered pregnancy and nobody batted an eye, but Mr Ratburn is gay and marrying his partner and now it's suddenly inappropriate because...what?

The context of the question is what occurred in the classroom according to the teacher themselves. Nobody asked if she was married or to whom, or any of these unrelated notions, but she felt it totes norms to discuss her sexual attractions with a bunch of 12 year olds.

 

You are inventing a different scenario to sidestep what actually happened in this case. Kids were talking about sexuality, and she decided it wise to join in on that when they asked. I would disagree, even without potential career consequences of the new law.

 

If somebody gets canned for simply acknowledging they are in a same sex marriage, I’ll get the pitchfork out too.

[Ghost_MH]

25 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

The context of the question is what occurred in the classroom according to the teacher themselves. Nobody asked if she was married or to whom, or any of these unrelated notions, but she felt it totes norms to discuss her sexual attractions with a bunch of 12 year olds.

 

You are inventing a different scenario to sidestep what actually happened in this case. Kids were talking about sexuality, and she decided it wise to join in on that when they asked. I would disagree, even without potential career consequences of the new law.

 

If somebody gets canned for simply acknowledging they are in a same sex marriage, I’ll get the pitchfork out too.

 

What you're talking about is something that's been happening in this country far longer than anyone wants to admit because this country has utterly failed to keep the mental health of our children in check.

 

Oftentimes teachers are the only friendly face a child has in their lives. I don't know if you realize that teachers are often the first person kids come out to, very often before family and before their very own friends. If you think that's wrong then that's fine, but that's not any teacher's fault. How is it the fault of any teacher that a student trusts and respects their teacher more than their own friends and family? The number of kids that have come out to my wife is mind-blowing. Everything from gay jocks to girly females that want nothing more than to be handsome boys. Kids self harming. Kids handing her suicide notes at the end of the school day. It was one of the most stressful parts of her day. Who is ostracizing these kids to the point where they feel the need to kill themselves if not the same people that wasn't to pretend queer people don't exist?

 

Would you find it offensive if a teacher said they were straight? Gay pride month is coming up. If a teacher wants to self-identity as part of the community, I'd love to understand what part of that is inappropriate or sexual? In the case of this story, pansexual is like the least definitively sexual of all the sexual orientations. "Yeah, I like all different types of people." That's so much less in the weeds than "liking girls" or "liking boys" or "liking boys and girls". Look at my descriptions and then remember she was fired over admitting to loving any kind of person.

[SaysWho?]

12 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

Oftentimes teachers are the only friendly face a child has in their lives. I don't know if you realize that teachers are often the first person kids come out to, very often before family and before their very own friends.

To some kids, the teacher is the friendliest face they’ll see all day. It won’t be their parents who are being then. Or who will disown them if they come out as 🏳️‍🌈.
 

But our top priority in Florida isn’t the fact that we’re now the least affordable place to live with home insurance skyrocketing over the rest of the country. It’s “stop woke” and stopping teachers from discussing anything LGBTQ without straight up saying it’s their goal.

 

Why not fire Republican teachers? I had plenty of them in Florida and they openly discussed their politics. 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

21 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

What you're talking about is something that's been happening in this country far longer than anyone wants to admit because this country has utterly failed to keep the mental health of our children in check.

 

Oftentimes teachers are the only friendly face a child has in their lives. I don't know if you realize that teachers are often the first person kids come out to, very often before family and before their very own friends. If you think that's wrong then that's fine, but that's not any teacher's fault. How is it the fault of any teacher that a student trusts and respects their teacher more than their own friends and family? The number of kids that have come out to my wife is mind-blowing. Everything from gay jocks to girly females that want nothing more than to be handsome boys. Kids self harming. Kids handing her suicide notes at the end of the school day. It was one of the most stressful parts of her day. Who is ostracizing these kids to the point where they feel the need to kill themselves if not the same people that wasn't to pretend queer people don't exist?

 

Would you find it offensive if a teacher said they were straight? Gay pride month is coming up. If a teacher wants to self-identity as part of the community, I'd love to understand what part of that is inappropriate or sexual? In the case of this story, pansexual is like the least definitively sexual of all the sexual orientations. "Yeah, I like all different types of people." That's so much less in the weeds than "liking girls" or "liking boys" or "liking boys and girls". Look at my descriptions and then remember she was fired over admitting to loving any kind of person.

Agreed 100%. My wife has a student who prefers one name that is female presenting and goes by that at school but is male presenting for their own parents. Having someone you can turn to is so important at that age. This isn’t something uncommon at all. 

they’re in middle school so they might have a decent idea of what they may be (ask a gay person when they found out when they were gay!), and it sounds like a few of the kids must have been gay or something. So they may be looking for a role model or someone to connect with! Just answering who they are in this context is fine and not inappropriate. And there’sa 100% chance that if they said straight we’d never have heard of this at all and wouldn’t have been fired and if you can’t see that you’re too full of shit to be taken seriously. 

[Guest]

On 5/6/2022 at 6:16 PM, Ghost_MH said:

Oftentimes teachers are the only friendly face a child has in their lives. I don't know if you realize that teachers are often the first person kids come out to, very often before family and before their very own friends. If you think that's wrong then that's fine, but that's not any teacher's fault. How is it the fault of any teacher that a student trusts and respects their teacher more than their own friends and family?

In what world does a teacher need to engage in discussion of their own sexuality to care for a child? Professional counselors and therapists do a pretty good job of listening and helping other people without interjecting their personal story or feelings into the mix.

 

Again, going back to what actually occurred in the story being discussed, the teacher not only stated she had decided to come

out to her students as Pan because she had just done so to her family the day before, she also went into detail about being poly and how she has both a husband and a girlfriend.

 

She was acting like she was buddies with these kids, not an authority figure. If the personal details of your kid‘s teacher’s love life is something you want them discussing with your kids, we simply have very different ideas about how education ought to work. And that’s fine, fortunately we have the ability to choose the path we want for each of our kids.

[Chadatog]

47 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

In what world does a teacher need to engage in discussion of their own sexuality to care for a child? Professional counselors and therapists do a pretty good job of listening and helping other people without interjecting their personal story or feelings into the mix.

 

Again, going back to what actually occurred in the story being discussed, the teacher not only stated she had decided to come

out to her students as Pan because she had just done so to her family the day before, she also went into detail about being poly and how she has both a husband and a girlfriend.

 

She was acting like she was buddies with these kids, not an authority figure. If the personal details of your kid‘s teacher’s love life is something you want them discussing with your kids, we simply have very different ideas about how education ought to work. And that’s fine, fortunately we have the ability to choose the path we want for each of our kids.

Spoken like a true homeschooler.

[Ghost_MH]

1 hour ago, sblfilms said:

In what world does a teacher need to engage in discussion of their own sexuality to care for a child? Professional counselors and therapists do a pretty good job of listening and helping other people without interjecting their personal story or feelings into the mix.

 

Again, going back to what actually occurred in the story being discussed, the teacher not only stated she had decided to come

out to her students as Pan because she had just done so to her family the day before, she also went into detail about being poly and how she has both a husband and a girlfriend.

 

She was acting like she was buddies with these kids, not an authority figure. If the personal details of your kid‘s teacher’s love life is something you want them discussing with your kids, we simply have very different ideas about how education ought to work. And that’s fine, fortunately we have the ability to choose the path we want for each of our kids.

 

It's super easy to get your own kids to pay attention in class because you can discipline them like parents. Nowadays, teachers have to deal with checked out parents/guardians, Karens masquerading as parents/guardians, and simply terrible parents/guardians.

 

There is zero reason for a teacher to treat their students cold and clinically. That's a terrible learning environment. Back in my time, in my school district growing up, if you didn't behave you got sent off to a rehab school that was run like a prison with armed guards and had legit padded rooms to lock kids up in while waiting for either the police or a guardian to show up and take them away. Apparently, that's not really allowed anymore.

 

We're talking about human beings here. How does a teacher, I'm 2022, gain the trust and respect of their students without showing some form of carefully crafted, filtered, and sanitized vulnerability? A teacher has, what? A 1-2 hour chunk of time to make a connection with these kids and get them to learn something. If it's an elective like art or music in middle school, that's 1-2 hours a week. You've got 1-2 hours a week with kids you only see 36 times over the course of their entire life. If the elective only runs half a year, then that's a whole eighteen 1-2 hours classes. I've spent more time in meetings trying to figure out what email client to use.

 

Teachers like this have to get kids to like them to actually work with them to actually get them to learn something to maybe even help them discover a love for art in a dozen classes spread out over some five months. You know what 12yo won't do without first actually respecting the teacher? It's paint some fruit sitting in a basket before being shunted off to social studies an hour and a half later. In this case, it's art class, not a two crayon break.

 

When my wife bumps into students of hers from years back, they still shout out to her like she's a long lost friend. There are even a few parents that do same. She only saw these kids for a couple of hours a day. Those kids saw her as a real friend. She was also one of the teachers that was fastest to quiet an unruly class down. The idea that kids would just respect a person just because they're a teacher and with it comes some sense of authority is wildly out of touch. Children 11+ don't care about your title and 3/4 of them don't if you get their parents involved. Half the time that parent will be a Karen and the teacher will get reprimanded. The other half of the time the parent won't give a shit will just hang up in anyone's face.

 

Does that seem unfair to teachers? Yes, but being a friend usually works, so it's Wendy teachers around the country do and have been doing for decades. If you're arguing teachers shouldn't try to befriend their students, then we may as well just completely close all schools, public and private.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Ghost_MH said:

It's super easy to get your own kids to pay attention in class because you can discipline them like parents. Nowadays, teachers have to deal with checked out parents/guardians, Karens masquerading as parents/guardians, and simply terrible parents/guardians.

 

There is zero reason for a teacher to treat their students cold and clinically. That's a terrible learning environment. Back in my time, in my school district growing up, if you didn't behave you got sent off to a rehab school that was run like a prison with armed guards and had legit padded rooms to lock kids up in while waiting for either the police or a guardian to show up and take them away. Apparently, that's not really allowed anymore.

 

We're talking about human beings here. How does a teacher, I'm 2022, gain the trust and respect of their students without showing some form of carefully crafted, filtered, and sanitized vulnerability? A teacher has, what? A 1-2 hour chunk of time to make a connection with these kids and get them to learn something. If it's an elective like art or music in middle school, that's 1-2 hours a week. You've got 1-2 hours a week with kids you only see 36 times over the course of their entire life. If the elective only runs half a year, then that's a whole eighteen 1-2 hours classes. I've spent more time in meetings trying to figure out what email client to use.

 

Teachers like this have to get kids to like them to actually work with them to actually get them to learn something to maybe even help them discover a love for art in a dozen classes spread out over some five months. You know what 12yo won't do without first actually respecting the teacher? It's paint some fruit sitting in a basket before being shunted off to social studies an hour and a half later. In this case, it's art class, not a two crayon break.

 

When my wife bumps into students of hers from years back, they still shout out to her like she's a long lost friend. There are even a few parents that do same. She only saw these kids for a couple of hours a day. Those kids saw her as a real friend. She was also one of the teachers that was fastest to quiet an unruly class down. The idea that kids would just respect a person just because they're a teacher and with it comes some sense of authority is wildly out of touch. Children 11+ don't care about your title and 3/4 of them don't if you get their parents involved. Half the time that parent will be a Karen and the teacher will get reprimanded. The other half of the time the parent won't give a shit will just hang up in anyone's face.

 

Does that seem unfair to teachers? Yes, but being a friend usually works, so it's Wendy teachers around the country do and have been doing for decades. If you're arguing teachers shouldn't try to befriend their students, then we may as well just completely close all schools, public and private.

As as I tell all my staff members, you don’t have to be friends with everybody to be friendly to everybody. You’re creating a false dichotomy where you’re either befriending the students or being cold and clinical, and there is rather large set of options in between those two places.

 

My children have teachers besides their parents. This year as an example our oldest has a once a week teacher for Latin/Science/Logic, and for math.

My younger two each have a once a week math, and writing teachers.

 

Shockingly, they listen and learn despite spending one hour a week with these teachers. They don’t know these people on a remotely personal level. Their math teacher doesn’t even instruct them in person, all over zoom. And somehow they manage to learn without issue despite not making friend relationships with these teachers.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Chadatog said:

Spoken like a true homeschooler.

You got me there 

[Air_Delivery]

53 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

As as I tell all my staff members, you don’t have to be friends with everybody to be friendly to everybody. You’re creating a false dichotomy where you’re either befriending the students or being cold and clinical, and there is rather large set of options in between those two places.

 

My children have teachers besides their parents. This year as an example our oldest has a once a week teacher for Latin/Science/Logic, and for math.

My younger two each have a once a week math, and writing teachers.

 

Shockingly, they listen and learn despite spending one hour a week with these teachers. They don’t know these people on a remotely personal level. Their math teacher doesn’t even instruct them in person, all over zoom. And somehow they manage to learn without issue despite not making friend relationships with these teachers.

How do you not understand that there are a ton of kids in shitty home environments with emotional and trust problems?

[PaladinSolo]

The kids probably forgot she'd even said it a week later, the fact anyone cares is stupid.  As for homeschooled kids, had a friend that was till highschool, along with siblings, all had issues integrated due to them being social inept, sister had to be pulled back out cause it was so bad, older brother repressed his sexuality till he was in his 30s, my friend while he eventually did fine, would still do and say weird things that raised eyebrows.  Homeschooling is just simply bad, especially if its because you're afraid a teacher might tell your kids they're gay, and give them someone whos like them to look up to.

[CitizenVectron]

Working in a school system...teachers are replacement parents for probably half the kids.

[finaljedi]

I think an easy illustration is when you think back to your favorite teachers it wasn't the ones who read from the textbook and assigned the end of unit quiz.  It was the ones where you felt a connection and that usually comes when they leave a piece of themselves out there for everyone to also know and experience.  I had a long term sub science teacher once in like the 7th grade I think who was wearing a necklace with a medallion, I said that looked like a Buddha or something, she said it was and that she was Buddhist, the class got interested and she discussed that for that period, it didn't have anything to do with science, but wasn't bad.  This weird notion now that class needs to be sanitized of anything personal related to the teachers doesn't reflect the reality that anyone complaining about it grew up in.  It's just teachers couldn't discuss a non-heteronormative lifestyle back then and there are people now who really wish it was still like that because that makes them uncomfortable.

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, PaladinSolo said:

As for homeschooled kids, had a friend that was till highschool, along with siblings, all had issues integrated due to them being social inept, sister had to be pulled back out cause it was so bad, older brother repressed his sexuality till he was in his 30s, my friend while he eventually did fine, would still do and say weird things that raised eyebrows.  Homeschooling is just simply bad, especially if its because you're afraid a teacher might tell your kids they're gay, and give them someone whos like them to look up to.

We have a board full of self described socially inept people who were all public school kids. Maybe some people are just weirdos  

 

33 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

Working in a school system...teachers are replacement parents for probably half the kids.

I am sure that is true. We have similar issues with our high school staff members. Lots of terrible parents and kids longing for things they don’t get from their parents. Unfortunately, we can’t actually replace terrible parents and we don’t try to do so. There are many ways to be supportive of children who aren’t your own.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

All I know is that as someone who came from an extremely socially conservative area/school, and knowing how many of my former classmates are now openly gay, I wish they had someone they could have opened up to in middle/high school. Instead there was one openly gay kid who got mercilessly bullied and there were so few people he could turn to, but luckily he lived with his grandmother who was very accepting of him. It didn’t need to be this way! And all the hand wringing about what lgbtq teachers can say to students is trying to get us back to that dynamic. 

[Kal-El814]

When I was in high school, kids absolutely asked teachers if they were gay. I finished high school in 1998 so it was peak time for calling everything gay / thinking that gay stuff was hilarious. Kids know things. See a male teacher with no family pictures on their desk, no wedding ring, no kids, who dressed well and had an effeminate voice? Hindsight bias is a thing but it feels like he got asked if he was gay constantly. So honestly, a student asking a teacher who they're attracted to instead of asking them, "are we going to have any homework a gay, what, I totally said today," seems like a step up.

 

There's a big difference between a student asking a teacher who they're attracted to and allowing a teacher to have an authentic response to that and a teacher telling kids that they suck dick and clit with equal enthusiasm. I'd have a problem with the latter. 

 

And let's not kid ourselves... the majority of parents objecting to this aren't doing so because they want to be able to have these conversations with their children in a safe, home environment. They want to be able to pretend that LGBTQ+ people do not exist. I don't have kids but many of my friends do. Local school board meetings have people from out of town come and complain about this topic and critical race theory being taught in schools all the time. It's not an authentic complaint, it's manufactured grievance with the purpose of invalidating the existence and identities of entire swathes of people.

 

Also some of this stuff has little to nothing to do with teachers as it does with kids being in the same space. I learned what anal sex was when I was in fifth grade because a sixth grader I rode the bus with found porn tapes in his house, watched them, and couldn't wait to tell everyone about it. Kids can be imitators, I kissed a friend of mine when I was in first grade because she and I knew grown ups do it. And while 12 is young, some kids absolutely have sexual feelings then. I started having crushes around then, started making out with girls when I was 13 - 14, and was sexually active at 15.

 

It's not just teachers either. When I would hang out with friends their younger siblings would ask me if I kissed girls or had sex. They'd ask if I knew anyone who was gay. Kids can start exploring their sexuality pretty early on and asking people questions is part of the way that they do that. Obviously the standards for answers are different for "my older brother's friend" compared to a teacher, but I do think it's important for teachers of be able to answer those questions in the way that feels the most honest to them, including telling kids that they're not entitled to the answer if they don't want to give it.

[Ghost_MH]

8 hours ago, sblfilms said:

As as I tell all my staff members, you don’t have to be friends with everybody to be friendly to everybody. You’re creating a false dichotomy where you’re either befriending the students or being cold and clinical, and there is rather large set of options in between those two places.

 

My children have teachers besides their parents. This year as an example our oldest has a once a week teacher for Latin/Science/Logic, and for math.

My younger two each have a once a week math, and writing teachers.

 

Shockingly, they listen and learn despite spending one hour a week with these teachers. They don’t know these people on a remotely personal level. Their math teacher doesn’t even instruct them in person, all over zoom. And somehow they manage to learn without issue despite not making friend relationships with these teachers.

 

Your kids behave at home near parents that actually care and love them. Shocking. Like, yeah, in more affluent neighborhoods, schools are run more to your liking because the kids come from wealthier backgrounds and with wealth comes a higher percentage of attentive parents. Those teachers can call up their parents who will come by and actually care. Any school districts not in the top 10% doesn't have that luxury. How do you get a kid to care about school when threatening to call their parents means nothing because their parents aren't going to show up because they simply don't care or because they work so many hours they're simply not around? How do you get a child to care about school when they're in the closet and want to die because their parents aren't accepting of them?

 

Teachers get paid like shit in this country. That means there are mostly two types of teachers left. Teachers just skating by, doing the minimum, because that's what they're paid like and teachers that are true believers. I'll take the true believers any day of the week, even when that means they'll likely talk about their own vacations when talking to the kids about their vacations or recounting their own New Years plans while engaging kids in their families' plans. Better than those that'll dismissively say that aren't paid enough and ignore the kids that are obviously self harming and battling with depression.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

Something most of us have missed but the whole “I don’t care if they have a husband or a wife they don’t need to talk about it” is dumb as hell and straight up bi/pan sexual erasure. Like being openly gay is fine but being openly attracted to more than your partners gender is over the line? 

[Anathema-]

Maybe I'd find more outrage if we had a glut of teachers. Even if I agreed this was teacher was imperfect what happened wasn't even worth disciplinary action. 

[Ghost_MH]

25 minutes ago, Anathema- said:

Maybe I'd find more outrage if we had a glut of teachers. Even if I agreed this was teacher was imperfect what happened wasn't even worth disciplinary action. 

 

That's the thing, right. Even if this teacher over shared, it wouldn't have been worth firing a first year teacher over. We already have far too few teachers, so let's get rid of the teachers that do the horrible thing of...trying to befriend their students.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

Anyway, allow me to not give a single flying fuck about what one new teacher did