Roe v. Wade is dead

[Jwheel86]

4 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

 

...and?

 

This tweet is just saying what they are doing, it's not offering any response.

 

Do nothing and the dems might be able to maybe survive the midterms because of lib anger, do something and the libs go back to sleep while the GOP makes repeal of a Roe bill the midterm goal with the Filibuster already dead opening the door to national ban.

 

That's the stupid DC thinking, they refuse to accept the Filibuster is already dead. 

 

 

 

 

[CitizenVectron]

1 minute ago, CayceG said:

Liberals love to lose. 

 

That's the whole persona around RBG: dissenting in the face of the majority opinion. Resisting after having lost. That is a noble thing to speak up and say the right things. But when they do that, it still means they've lost!

 

Republicans govern (for worse). Democrats lose and pontificate. 

 

Wanting to feel aggrieved and noble is a universal trait, I think. Nothing makes Republicans harder than thinking they are a victim. The difference, I think, is that because their policies and beliefs support doing harm to other people, they don't care what it takes to achieve their goals. It's just empathy vs lack of empathy.

[Brian]

 

[SaysWho?]

1 minute ago, CayceG said:

Liberals love to lose. 

 

That's the whole persona around RBG: dissenting in the face of the majority opinion. Resisting after having lost. That is a noble thing to speak up and say the right things. But when they do that, it still means they've lost!

 

Republicans govern (for worse). Democrats lose and pontificate. 

 

On the topic of Ginsburg:

 

She should have retired before 2015. But that wouldn't have stopped this ruling. What could have: people holding their nose and voting Hillary in 2016. And let's face it: on this very board, we were talking about it at the time so we wouldn't need to dissent later.

[mclumber1]

23 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

 

...and?

 

This tweet is just saying what they are doing, it's not offering any response.

 

Kamala is the John Madden of politics? 

[Brian]

3rd world country 

[CitizenVectron]

4 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

On the topic of Ginsburg:

 

She should have retired before 2015. But that wouldn't have stopped this ruling. What could have: people holding their nose and voting Hillary in 2016. And let's face it: on this very board, we were talking about it at the time so we wouldn't need to dissent later.

 

Democrats (and progressives in general) need to start realizing that every single opportunity for conflict needs to be jumped on. No, RBG retiring in 2014 or 2015 wouldn't have stopped Trump from appointing 2 or 3 people and swinging the court—but she should have done it anyway to maximize the cause. Republicans jump on every single lever of power at all times. If they think taking control of a small town's library board will help them out in a few years, then they will get their diehards to do it. Democrats love to vote for someone inspirational every 4 years, but that's a losing game. The only way to stop monsters is to go to the wall every single time.

[Brian]

 

[skillzdadirecta]

38 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

lol

 

Hey guys: this shit should be galvanizing for Democrats. Because even with gerrymandering, if every Dem got off their ass, it would still be overwhelming at the ballot box.

 

Not enough did in 2016. Tiny states are overrepresented, but Arizona/Georgia/Virginia also show that you can get Senators in other states where you used to not be able to win.

 

Even just talking about how hopeless it is dangerous, as if Democrats ever learn. 

 

[Jwheel86]

Just now, CitizenVectron said:

Democrats love to vote for someone inspirational every 4 years, but that's a losing game.

 

It could if that person is willing to go to war with the party. 

[skillzdadirecta]

11 minutes ago, CayceG said:

 

Republicans govern (for worse).

I don't think anyone can say after 4 years of Trump that Republicans "govern". They have zero interest actually governing. The last two democratic administrations had to hit the ground running in order to clean up the catastrophies of their predecessors. 

[CayceG]

Just now, skillzdadirecta said:

I don't think anyone can say after 4 years of Trump that Republicans "govern". They have zero interest actually governing. The last two democratic administrations had to hit the ground running in order to clean up the catastrophies of their predecessors. 

 

This is a good correction. Republicans have their pet issues and they use any arm of power to achieve them. 

[SaysWho?]

3 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

Democrats (and progressives in general) need to start realizing that every single opportunity for conflict needs to be jumped on. No, RBG retiring in 2014 or 2015 wouldn't have stopped Trump from appointing 2 or 3 people and swinging the court—but she should have done it anyway to maximize the cause. Republicans jump on every single lever of power at all times. If they think taking control of a small town's library board will help them out in a few years, then they will get their diehards to do it. Democrats love to vote for someone inspirational every 4 years, but that's a losing game. The only way to stop monsters is to go to the wall every single time.

 

Of COURSE she should have. Fuck, after Barret was confirmed, my bitter ass went to a friend's profile and went to 'search profile' because I remember talking to a guy who said around spring 2020 (RGB was in the hospital) that the reason she didn't retire was because she was in relatively good health and felt she had a lot left to contribute, and I mentioned him 6 months later and said, "So how'd that work out?"

 

But of all days to dunk on her, it's not today because it has nothing to do with her. This is Bush 2004 (giving us Alito) and especially the people who didn't vote Hillary, never mind the people who actually put these justices in power.

[SaysWho?]

11 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

 

Kamala is the John Madden of politics? 

 

I'm a little surprised the board's libertarian is the one who makes me feel better during this kind of shit.  

[skillzdadirecta]

@SaysWho? spittin' hot fire in this thread 

[CayceG]

Also, "we should have voted for Hillary" is such a canard. 

 

Tell that to 50,000 people in Michigan and Pennsylvania. Not to me. My vote doesn't matter. It has never mattered. Not in the face of voter suppression, a state party that doesn't give a fuck, and a national party that doesn't respond to the will of the people. 

 

For the people that didn't vote for her or stayed home, we've gone around in circles multiple times as to why they didn't. What incentive did they even have besides this? Obama didn't push for this during his 2 years with full governmental control. Biden hasn't yet. There's no party power being exercised to do anything other than fundraise. All the Republicans are to blame (I'm including Manchin in this). RBG is to blame. Obama is to blame. The DCCC is to blame. Joe Biden is to blame. Hillary Clinton is to blame. Jerry Fallwell is to blame. W. is to blame. 

 

There's plenty of it to go around, and it doesn't spread thin. But not one goddamn bit of blame goes to the voters. We can't live life expected to always vote to keep XYZ from happening. We need something to vote in favor of. If we don't have that, the threat of XYZ happening just isn't that dire because nothing will ever get better. We can only keep it from getting worse. 

 

 

[SaysWho?]

Just now, skillzdadirecta said:

@SaysWho? spittin' hot fire in this thread 

 

True story about going back 6 months and zinging the guy, btw. Bitter but why not when I'm stuck with a 6-3 majority for much of my life unless Clarence croaks soon?

[Firewithin]

12 minutes ago, ManUtdRedDevils said:

 

 

thanks obama 

[skillzdadirecta]

5 minutes ago, CayceG said:

We can't live life expected to always vote to keep XYZ from happening. We need something to vote in favor of. If we don't have that, the threat of XYZ happening just isn't that dire because nothing will ever get better. We can only keep it from getting worse. 

Tell that to black voters who pretty much vote like this ALL THE TIME and are the only reliable voting block the dems have for that very reason. This line of thinking is why I was JUST telling a friend of mine that today that progressives are unreliable when it comes to moving this country forward. Say what you want about conservatives but they SHOW UP.

[CayceG]

1 minute ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Tell that to black voters who pretty much vote like this ALL THE TIME and are the only reliable voting block the dems have for that very reason. This line of thinking is why I was JUST telling a friend of mine that today that progressives are unreliable when it comes to moving this country forward. Say what you want about conservatives but they SHOW UP.

 

Yeah, you're right about this. 

 

It's so exhausting to go on like this. 

[Jason]

24 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

On the topic of Ginsburg:

 

She should have retired before 2015. But that wouldn't have stopped this ruling. What could have: people holding their nose and voting Hillary in 2016. And let's face it: on this very board, we were talking about it at the time so we wouldn't need to dissent later.

 

Roberts would probably go for something pretty bad but not full on accelerationist if it was a 5-4 court. 

[johnny]

blaming voters is weak shit. we are told to vote blue because the other people will do bad stuff if we don’t. when are the democrats going to get off their ass and commit to making real change? guess they haven’t raised enough funds to do it yet. i always vote blue but i don’t blame anybody who feels disenfranchised and left behind by our two party system. 

 

i swallowed my pride both elections and voted for hillary and biden despite being a bernie sanders supporter. there is essentially nothing to show for it. are the voters to blame for joe manchin being in the pockets of lobbyists? are the voters to blame for joe biden not even trying to fill campaign promises? 

 

sorry that the left isn’t a shut up and dribble type of person like the republican voters are. maybe democrats should do something to work on that.  

 

 

[CitizenVectron]

10 minutes ago, CayceG said:

For the people that didn't vote for her or stayed home, we've gone around in circles multiple times as to why they didn't. What incentive did they even have besides this? Obama didn't push for this during his 2 years with full governmental control. Biden hasn't yet. There's no party power being exercised to do anything other than fundraise.

 

I see this a lot, but it's false.

• Massive stimulus under Biden that wouldn't have happened under Trump
• Better access to free vaccines, saving hundreds of thousands of lives
• Arming Ukraine instead of telling Russia to take it
• Record number of judicial appointments in the first Presidential year in office since 1980, a record number of which were public defenders
• First Black woman on the Supreme Court

Biden, like Obama, is too much of a coward to do the hard things, all in the sake of protecting convention. But he is a million times better than the alternative.

 

The correct answer is that people should have voted for Clinton. And this year when Pelosi helps that shit turd discussed early (who is pro-life) win the nomination in hi district over the progressive female challenger, the correct answer is to vote for him, too. The correct answer is to hold your nose forever and vote for the lesser of two evils. In between you can work as hard as you can to not have to make that choice, but when the time comes, you make it every single time.

[SaysWho?]

18 minutes ago, CayceG said:

Also, "we should have voted for Hillary" is such a canard. 

 

Tell that to 50,000 people in Michigan and Pennsylvania. Not to me. My vote doesn't matter. It has never mattered. Not in the face of voter suppression, a state party that doesn't give a fuck, and a national party that doesn't respond to the will of the people. 

 

For the people that didn't vote for her or stayed home, we've gone around in circles multiple times as to why they didn't. What incentive did they even have besides this? Obama didn't push for this during his 2 years with full governmental control. Biden hasn't yet. There's no party power being exercised to do anything other than fundraise. All the Republicans are to blame (I'm including Manchin in this). RBG is to blame. Obama is to blame. The DCCC is to blame. Joe Biden is to blame. Hillary Clinton is to blame. Jerry Fallwell is to blame. W. is to blame. 

 

There's plenty of it to go around, and it doesn't spread thin. But not one goddamn bit of blame goes to the voters. We can't live life expected to always vote to keep XYZ from happening. We need something to vote in favor of. If we don't have that, the threat of XYZ happening just isn't that dire because nothing will ever get better. We can only keep it from getting worse. 

 

 

 

I'm telling it to the people on this board who needed to be convinced to vote Hillary. If you live in Tennessee or Arkansas, then I'm not referring to you.  

 

But oh hellllllll no, I'm gonna blame voters over and over. "But when I voted DeSantis, I didn't think he'd actually push for an abortion ban like this!" Surprise, guy who is pro-life with three Supreme Court vacancies to fill does pro-life things. "But I didn't realize what would happen to the Courts when I voted third party in 2016." Surprise, guy who caters to the far-right appoints far-right people to the Court.

 

Voters are absolutely part of the blame for 2016. The stakes were clear, Republicans didn't even hide what they were doing, McConnell came out and clearly said he loved that he told Obama he wouldn't fill Scalia's seat, activists were clear they wanted Roe gone, and we could have had an actual, ACTUAL liberal court for the first time in most of our lives. That's not stopping things from getting worse; that would have been a boon to this country 20 ways from Sunday.

 

I absolutely expect people to always vote. Always. I've exhausted way too much energy, from setting up foundations for deceased friends, to voting in the tiniest elections, to how I cover things in my job (climate change and important things like skyrocketing home insurance in Florida), to working with local educators to bolster the arts, to just a few days ago talking a second g'damn person out of suicide in the past year or two and working with local organizations on mental health, to NOT expect people to just fill out a ballot and also actually vote in primaries. If everyone did, the rest of us wouldn't feel overwhelmed.

 

My head is half gray and I ain't done yet, es. 

[CayceG]

Just now, CitizenVectron said:

 

I see this a lot, but it's false.

• Massive stimulus under Biden that wouldn't have happened under Trump
• Better access to free vaccines, saving hundreds of thousands of lives
• Arming Ukraine instead of telling Russia to take it
• Record number of judicial appointments in the first Presidential year in office since 1980, a record number of which were public defenders
• First Black woman on the Supreme Court

Biden, like Obama, is too much of a coward to do the hard things, all in the sake of protecting convention. But he is a million times better than the alternative.

 

 

Of course there have been good things. But the last two are the ones that are really not extraordinary circumstances. The rest are what is expected of the chief executive. Nowhere should any of my criticism be construed as giving up to the point of handing the country over to the enemy. 

 

3 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

I'm telling it to the people on this board who needed to be convinced to vote Hillary. If you live in Tennessee or Arkansas, then I'm not referring to you.  

 

But oh hellllllll no, I'm gonna blame voters over and over. "But when I voted DeSantis, I didn't think he'd actually push for an abortion ban like this!" Surprise, guy who is pro-life with three Supreme Court vacancies to fill does pro-life things. "But I didn't realize what would happen to the Courts when I voted third party in 2016." Surprise, guy who caters to the far-right appoints far-right people to the Court.

 

Voters are absolutely part of the blame for 2016. The stakes were clear, Republicans didn't even hide what they were doing, McConnell came out and clearly said he loved that he told Obama he wouldn't fill Scalia's seat, activists were clear they wanted Roe gone, and we could have had an actual, ACTUAL liberal court for the first time in most of our lives. That's not stopping things from getting worse; that would have been a boon to this country 20 ways from Sunday.

 

I absolutely expect people to always vote. Always. I've exhausted way too much energy, from setting up foundations for deceased friends, to voting in the tiniest elections, to how I cover things in my job (climate change and important things like skyrocketing home insurance in Florida), to working with local educators to bolster the arts, to just a few days ago talking a second g'damn person out of suicide in the past year or two and working with local organizations on mental health, to NOT expect people to just fill out a ballot and also actually vote in primaries. If everyone did, the rest of us wouldn't feel overwhelmed.

 

My head is half gray and I ain't done yet, bitches. 

 

We disagree on the voters, but good on you for the rest of what you're doing. 

[skillzdadirecta]

This thread 

[SaysWho?]

I've edited the last sentence of my last post to make the best use out of my avatar.

[Air_Delivery]

3 hours ago, Jason said:

 

I think it was being passed around by conservative clerks as jerk off material and the circle got to big. 

[CayceG]

Because of this thread, I just went to go vote in my local Democratic Primary for district attorney, local judges, circuit court, and school board.

 

My ballot was 6 pages long. 90% of the ballot were races where the candidate for judge or court position was running unopposed. I had a choice for DA and 6 judges of various courts. 

 

 

[stepee]

1 hour ago, skillzdadirecta said:

This thread 

 

I don’t have time, can you sum it up for me?????

[Mr.Vic20]

1 minute ago, stepee said:

 

I don’t have time, can you sum it up for me?????

[Firewithin]

oh cool

 

 

[TwinIon]

I think it's reasonable to put some onus on voters if only because it's the most direct call to action you can make that applies to everyone. It's fair to point out that the most straightforward way to fix things like this is to vote in representatives that would vote against it on our behalf.

 

At the same time, the supremacy of unrepresentative institutions in our government makes that call to action feel almost pointless. The makeup of the Supreme Court doesn't resemble that of the country now that the last three justices appointed are there thanks to happenstance and a President that lost the popular vote. The fact that you can even have a President that got fewer votes than their opponent is itself insane. The House hasn't been resized since 1911 despite there not being any constitutional basis for keeping it the same. Still, issues in the House hardly matter thanks to the Senate, which is a complete disaster. A single Senator can hold up legislation almost indefinitely for any reason, and a simple majority can't pass anything without the minority's say so, (both issues having no constitutional basis), but then there's the even more fundamental problem where the 500k people in Wyoming have as much power as the 40M in CA. This of course extends to the constitution itself, which is so difficult to change when even a relatively small minority are against it that it's only happened once in my lifetime.

 

Don't get me wrong. I vote in every little election, but it really is an uphill battle for the majority in this country.

[brucoe]

4 minutes ago, Mr.Vic20 said:

Yep, kind of sums it up for me, too.

[Jason]