How some QAnon believers become disbelievers and call themselves the "perfect example of the Dunning-Kruger effect"

[Signifyin(g)Monkey]

In addition to the other recommendations ITT, You all should listen to the NYT podcast ‘Rabbit Hole’; it’s all explained there.

 

And then read ‘Who Owns the Future’ by Jaron Lanier for a more ‘bird’s eye’ view.

[Spork3245]

I was debating on making a thread about it, but I’ll just post in here:

Has anyone watched Vice’s 3-part “Finding Q” documentary? Absolutely terrifying.

[thewhyteboar]

The March Of The American Kooks | Defector

DEFECTOR.COM

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The new congressional Representatives Marjorie Taylor Greene and Madison Cawthorn and Lauren Boebert take after Trump in their thirst and strident idiocy, but mostly in their understanding that...

This David Roth piece is very good.

 

Shit like QAnon and the Republican party is so frightening because we have to share a country and a planet with people who don't even share the same reality as us. 

[BloodyHell]

9 hours ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

yeah, but they’re adults. I just don’t have the same sympathy I would have for say a kid that when they moved away to college realizes the weird dogmatic teaching of a church their parents forced them to go to as a kid as being “insane”. 
 

these are adults that should know better. The fact that they only realize that after many can kicking down the road moments, when they see the same people make excuses as to why a dead politician figure didn’t suddenly rise up to arrest and expose people associated with liquefying children to keep celebrities youthful, that they suddenly “woke up” to finally think “maybe this isn’t true”; yeah I just can’t clap my hands for them and welcome them as heroes. 
 

they’re morons without the excuse of having no free will where to go or who to listen to. They deserve no praise. They, if anything, should never be allowed to vote, hold public office, and never be in a “management” position at their job. I find the fact that many of these Q  morons have jobs making in excess of $100k a year while smarter people sell them groceries for $7.50/hour to be a gross miscarriage of justice in this country.

 

they should be forever treated with contempt. Never allowed to live in poverty, because that is beyond inhuman, but also never allowed to represent middle class or better in American society. They are mentally challenged, in every sense of the term. They need adult supervision to ensure they are making sound decisions for the rest of their lives. 

So much of this is wrong, ignorant, and a bit disgusting. Depression, fear, anxiety, when those things increase, people start looking for something to belong to. The last year especially has seen a rise in all those things. Its very easy for somebody in an echo chamber to believe the things they're being told (it happens on the left too),  its also easier when they're lonely and riding a wave of despair. A pat on the back and a group of friends can be far more enticing than truth when a person is as their lowest.

 

Saying you want them punished for falling into a cult is some seriously messed up ideas. Saying they should never be abld to better their position is pfrightening. And calling them mentally challenged... jesus christ.... I can't think of a worst opinion on this.

 

When people leave a cult, they need help, not shame. But here we have somebody who claims that they should lose basic human rights because they believed something you don't. Jesus, I don't even.... 

 

Do Scientologists and Jehovas lose their rights too? What about Christians? I mean 4/5 of the world believes in patently false ideas about gods and spirits. Religion is mostly a cult. Should they lose the right to vote, the right to improve their status through merit and hard work? Or is it just Q because they are conservatives?

[SaysWho?]

I don't think anyone has to feel sorry for them, but due to how dangerous it is, I'm definitely welcoming any back who eat crow because I want them back to reality. And I say this as someone who has talked down to PLENTY of them who spouted QAnon conspiracies in real-time.

 

Sometimes you can get big-time activists from people who were neck-deep in this kind of stuff.

 

8 hours ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

Me. My deconversion happened in the early days of this forum and I discussed it at length. As far as I know, I remain the only atheist in a deeply religious family. My husband was the same. He just stopped believing in his teens instead of 20s. 
 

A lot of atheists have these stories. 

 

One of my friends who I've seen linked here had a similar story:

 

 

In her case, I knew her when she was a born-again Christian, but I started to notice her speak out for, as George Carlin would say, the "underdogs" - minorities, immigrants, LGBT, women. One of her crazy far-right uncles and her had many spats publicly, but she completely ripped herself from the far-right. I'm happy to say I was friends with her even back then, but seeing the change has been extraordinary and makes me optimistic. Major kudos to you as well as it's not easy.

 

It's also an example of how even when someone represents so much of what you're against, they can become big allies down the line.

[SaysWho?]

8 hours ago, Ghost_MH said:

My bedroom has a randomly textured ceiling. There's this bunch of squiggles that looks like a face when I'm not wearing my glasses...which I do a lot in bed, coincidentally. We, as a species, are just trained to look for patterns in things. Sometimes when folks, even successful folks, look out at the world looking for answers they can easily be lead down destructive paths. That's nothing new. We just get to combine that great human feature with the anonymity of the Internet and trolls and sickos. It's a great pairing.

 

[Remarkableriots]

Made To Stick: Snapple, the KKK, and Making Ideas Credible

WWW.FASTCOMPANY.COM

---

How do you get people to believe your ideas? Well, there’s something we can learn from really sleazy ideas that catch on. For years, Snapple struggled to fight rumors that it supported the KKK. The idea was...

Do you remember this one?

[SuperSpreader]

2 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

Canadians

Has he considered the British? They're exactly like Americans with a hilarious voice. 

[legend]

9 hours ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

You have WAY too much faith in humanity then.

 

I really do not believe I'm expressing an optimistic outlook on humanity at all  

 

Quote

People are simple. They look for answers when there are none. For years folks have been spoon fed conspiracies about Soros and the murderous Clintons, climate change and false flag operations on the most popular, most mainstream talk radio in the nation and the most popular, most mainstream cable news network in the nation. Thid leap is, unfortunately, not as far as it may look on the surface.

 

You had a president stoking fear and anger every chance he got, joblessness, sinking despair as everything gets more expensive and wages remain stagnant, and then a pandemic that the highest levels of government played off as a conspiracy themselves. Even if things are fairly stable by historic standards, it feels chaotic thanks to the side of information.

 

My bedroom has a randomly textured ceiling. There's this bunch of squiggles that looks like a face when I'm not wearing my glasses...which I do a lot in bed, coincidentally. We, as a species, are just trained to look for patterns in things. Sometimes when folks, even successful folks, look out at the world looking for answers they can easily be lead down destructive paths. That's nothing new. We just get to combine that great human feature with the anonymity of the Internet and trolls and sickos. It's a great pairing.

 

I'm sorry, but there is simply no way I, nor many people I love and know, would fall for such obvious bat shit insanity as Q-anon. There is also a world of difference between everyone's perception system looking for patterns and believing things like Q-anon. At the most basic level, when I see a face in a cloud, I am fully and totally aware that there's not actually a face in the cloud. I suspect you know there are not faces in your ceiling too. 

 

I *do* accept the distinct possibility that a large percentage of the human race would believe this kind of nonsense, but that still leaves us with a problem that we have to figure out how to defend against large portions of humanity dragging us down and the supreme challenge that we really cannot trust a large portion of the population to make decisions that affect others.

[Guest]

We should be glad when people stop participating in things that are harmful to themselves and others, and whatever posture promotes people not doing those things further is the one we should take. It’s difficult to know what that is, though I feel certain that shunning isn’t the answer.

[Ghost_MH]

36 minutes ago, legend said:

 

I really do not believe I'm expressing an optimistic outlook on humanity at all  

 

 

I'm sorry, but there is simply no way I, nor many people I love and know, would fall for such obvious bat shit insanity as Q-anon. There is also a world of difference between everyone's perception system looking for patterns and believing things like Q-anon. At the most basic level, when I see a face in a cloud, I am fully and totally aware that there's not actually a face in the cloud. I suspect you know there are not faces in your ceiling too. 

 

I *do* accept the distinct possibility that a large percentage of the human race would believe this kind of nonsense, but that still leaves us with a problem that we have to figure out how to defend against large portions of humanity dragging us down and supreme challenge that we really cannot trust a large portion of the population to make decisions that affect others.

 

Yet there are people that travel across the world because, like, Mary's face popped up on a piece of toast or something.

 

Either way, people have been getting caught up in cults since the beginning of time. Seemingly normal, smart people drink the Kool Aid all the time. Q is just the first major cult to grow on the Internet in front of everyone to see. You might not know people susceptible to this stuff, but you'd be surprised what people are primed for after decades of exposure to right-wing media and the echo chamber of social media.

 

I've had so much family and friends ask me about all the random shit they see online like 5g conspiracies or whether there really could be chips in vaccines. It's wild how much this bullshit gets spread.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

 

 

[SuperSpreader]

43 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

We should be glad when people stop participating in things that are harmful to themselves and others, and whatever posture be promotes people not doing those things further is the one we should take. It’s difficult to know what that is, though I feel certain that shunning isn’t the answer.

What's with the positive attitude!? Do you know who we are!?

[legend]

2 hours ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

Yet there are people that travel across the world because, like, Mary's face popped up on a piece of toast or something.

 

How is that inconsistent with what I've said?

 

Quote

Either way, people have been getting caught up in cults since the beginning of time. Seemingly normal, smart people drink the Kool Aid all the time. Q is just the first major cult to grow on the Internet in front of everyone to see. You might not know people susceptible to this stuff, but you'd be surprised what people are primed for after decades of exposure to right-wing media and the echo chamber of social media.

 

I've had so much family and friends ask me about all the random shit they see online like 5g conspiracies or whether there really could be chips in vaccines. It's wild how much this bullshit gets spread.

 

 

To be clear, I'm not saying humanity has suddenly gotten a larger percentage of dumb people. I absolutely believe history is littered with idiots. What I am saying is I think it's wrong to think that people "escape" from this kind of thing. I think they are inherently broken and as such cannot be trusted to be safe in the future just because they "got out" of Q (or insert any other bat-shit insane cult here). Consequently, I'm wondering what society needs to do with that fact.

 

[Brick]

5 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

Canadians

 

What?! 

 

[Mr.Vic20]

Based on my childhood in a cult and recent experiences with my former friend, I would anecdotally offer the following:

 

Intelligence can NOT save a person from their own ego or their groin. I've seen this pattern play out several times. A Smart/talented person begins to accept a narrative that better fits why the "others" don't:

 

1.) See their obvious greatness/uniqueness

2.) Understand the pressures they are under

3.) Know their pain

4.) See their obvious persecution at the hands of the others 

5.) See that they are, and they don't want to say this out right of course, but they feel they might be Neo! my favorite version of this being a quote from a dude on death row:

 

"I'm not saying I'm Elijah, I'm just saying I'd be surprised if I wasn't!"  

[Spork3245]

15 minutes ago, Brick said:

 

What?! 

 

[Bloodporne]

20 minutes ago, legend said:

To be clear, I'm not saying humanity has suddenly gotten a larger percentage of dumb people. I absolutely believe history is littered with idiots. What I am saying is I think it's wrong to think that people "escape" from this kind of thing. I think they are inherently broken and as such cannot be trusted to be safe in the future just because they "got out" of Q (or insert any other bat-shit insane cult here). Consequently, I'm wondering what society needs to do with that fact.

 

You sound like a Florida lawmaker. 

[legend]

31 minutes ago, Mr.Vic20 said:

Based on my childhood in a cult and recent experiences with my former friend, I would anecdotally offer the following:

 

Intelligence can NOT save a person from their own ego or their groin. I've seen this pattern play out several times. A Smart/talented person begins to accept a narrative that better fits why the "others" don't:

 

1.) See their obvious greatness/uniqueness

2.) Understand the pressures they are under

3.) Know their pain

4.) See their obvious persecution at the hands of the others 

5.) See that they are, and they don't want to say this out right of course, but they feel they might be Neo! my favorite version of this being a quote from a dude on death row:

 

"I'm not saying I'm Elijah, I'm just saying I'd be surprised if I wasn't!"  

 

 

I think it's probably wrong to use "intelligence" as some singular metric. All evidence shows that there is not some singular dimension of intelligence; consequently, you cannot neatly divide people into the "intelligent" or "stupid" groups. 

 

Nevertheless, I do still maintain that people who go hard into things like Q are inherently deficient in some set of highly critical cognitive functions (even if they are competent in others) and because of that, I would not trust them just because they "escaped" one cult. I would be fully prepared for them to do it again with something else or have the flaw manifest in any number of other ways.

 

 

Also, while I did state this earlier, I want to be perfectly clear: I do think there is a distinction for children who are raised and brainwashed into some belief in particular and then leave that.

[GeneticBlueprint]

2 hours ago, sblfilms said:

We should be glad when people stop participating in things that are harmful to themselves and others, and whatever posture be promotes people not doing those things further is the one we should take. It’s difficult to know what that is, though I feel certain that shunning isn’t the answer.

 

Shunning is a behavior exhibited by a lot of cults. We shouldn't emulate that. Since leaving my former religion, which seems like 90% a cult in hindsight, I have been shunned with different intensities by a lot of people I care about. But I've also been loved and accepted for who I am by people in and out of said cult since leaving. I don't want to go back to a place where people think I'm a wolf in sheep's clothing. All that to say: Treating former Qs poorly might encourage them to go back to what they're comfortable with.

 

And, if I'm being 100% honest, I do get a big laugh whenever I see a screenshot on Twitter of a Q who is coming to the realization and is saying his entire family thinks s/he's stupid and whatnot. It's funny because, well it's just funny. But also, I feel like I can empathize with that person a lot and I'd want to be the first one extending my hand out to bring them to the light side.

[BloodyHell]

15 minutes ago, legend said:

 

 

 

 

Nevertheless, I do still maintain that people who go hard into things like Q are inherently deficient in some set of highly critical cognitive functions (even if they are competent in others) and because of that, I would not trust them just because they "escaped" one cult. I would be fully prepared for them to do it again with something else or have the flaw manifest in any number of other 

If you've never been depressed and lonely, you can't understand what any sense of community does for these people. The beliefs are secondary, its about belonging. Shunning them will only make it worst. 

[CitizenVectron]

28 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

 

 

[Brick]

30 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

 

Jordan Peterson? 

[Kal-El814]

18 minutes ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

Shunning is a behavior exhibited by a lot of cults. We shouldn't emulate that. Since leaving my former religion, which seems like 90% a cult in hindsight, I have been shunned with different intensities by a lot of people I care about. But I've also been loved and accepted for who I am by people in and out of said cult since leaving. I don't want to go back to a place where people think I'm a wolf in sheep's clothing. All that to say: Treating former Qs poorly might encourage them to go back to what they're comfortable with.

 

And, if I'm being 100% honest, I do get a big laugh whenever I see a screenshot on Twitter of a Q who is coming to the realization and is saying his entire family thinks s/he's stupid and whatnot. It's funny because, well it's just funny. But also, I feel like I can empathize with that person a lot and I'd want to be the first one extending my hand out to bring them to the light side.

 

The reality for a lot of people in cults or people engaging with Q nonsense is that it’s generally pretty positive for most of them most of the time. Yes, someone’s getting the shit end of the stick at some point. But there’s a community, rituals, a shared language... there’s real culture there, even if it looks loony from the outside. Part of the reason those institutions persist is the perception that the “outside” doesn’t offer an equivalent and it’s frightening to get out.

[MarSolo]

Look, I wouldn’t mock QAnon people if their belief system wasn’t so stupid.

 

I can buy believing that a man who is actually God came down to earth and was crucified but then came back from the dead three days later, then again, I grew up Catholic. I can buy believing Moses in the desert for 40 years. I can buy believing whatever the fuck Scientology is about (aliens?).

 

However, I will endlessly mock people who honestly believe DONALD FUCKING TRUMP is playing some 4D level three board chess in order to stop a cabal of pedophiles. 
 

Those people deserve AT LEAST a year of being hazed while they’re deprogrammed.

[legend]

1 hour ago, BloodyHell said:

If you've never been depressed and lonely, you can't understand what any sense of community does for these people. The beliefs are secondary, its about belonging. Shunning them will only make it worst. 

 

I'm also not convinced shaming them is a good tactic. When a person can be reasoned with its tremendously counter productive to shame instead because the better outcome is to reason and teach them. Generally, I tend to avoid shaming people for that reason. But it's hard to reason with a person who so thoroughly abandons reason and embraces such a gross ideology. It's gross and stupid enough that I now find myself at least entertaining shaming them as a societal defense strategy.

 

EDIT: And to add a bit to why I'm entertaining it, the goal wouldn't be to "fix" those already taken into such nonsense. The goal would be to make it such a socially unacceptable path that it deters other people who are susceptible to its psychology from joining it. If these people are prone to abandon reason in favor of some sort of "social acceptance" then you make the group highly socially unacceptable to nip it in the bud. Maybe then they'll join a skateboarding community or any other of the 8 billion comparably benign internet communities they could have chosen from instead.

[MarSolo]

Also, most of the people that believe this stuff are such smug assholes about it.

 

Like, one of them was the guy I had a bet with over whether or not Trump would be President after the 20th.

 

Guess what? I obviously didn’t get the money. In fact, he’s now trying to get ME TO PAY HIM.

[stepee]

I honestly don’t see how believing in Q is all that different than Wade believing steak should be cooked well done.

[GeneticBlueprint]

1 minute ago, MarSolo said:

Also, most of the people that believe this stuff are such smug assholes about it.

 

Like, one of them was the guy I had a bet with over whether or not Trump would be President after the 20th.

 

Guess what? I obviously didn’t get the money. In fact, he’s now trying to get ME TO PAY HIM.

 

Screenshots plz

[MarSolo]

2 hours ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

 

Screenshots plz

Ask and you shall receive:

 

[Brick]

10 grand!? Damn no wonder he doesn't want to pay it. I thought when you said you made a bet you meant like 100 bucks tops. 

[MarSolo]

9 minutes ago, Brick said:

10 grand!? Damn no wonder he doesn't want to pay it. I thought when you said you made a bet you meant like 100 bucks tops. 

He agreed!

 

Don’t make bets if you can’t pay up!

[stepee]

As we saw at the insurrection a lot of these people do have money so this really might pay off for Mar.

[Ominous]

17 hours ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

Me. My deconversion happened in the early days of this forum and I discussed it at length. As far as I know, I remain the only atheist in a deeply religious family. My husband was the same. He just stopped believing in his teens instead of 20s. 
 

A lot of atheists have these stories. 

I've always been an atheist, glad you could jump ship. 

[GeneticBlueprint]

1 hour ago, MarSolo said:

Ask and you shall receive: