How some QAnon believers become disbelievers and call themselves the "perfect example of the Dunning-Kruger effect"

[SaysWho?]

One of the things that's bothered me about QAnon and its theories about an international cabal of cannibalistic pedophiles is: how the fuck do you believe this?

 

And then when I hear that someone used to be a believer but sees the light and apologizes to Anderson Cooper:

 

 

As horrific and idiotic as the conspiracy theory is, I'm glad when someone is able to dig themselves out of it and realize how intensely terrible the entire thing is. My next thought, probably even more perplexing, is: if you believed this conspiracy about 5G being this government conspiracy about... something, a cabal of cannibal pedos, and JFK Jr revealing he's never really died (and perhaps even is Q), what in the flying fuck caused you NOT to believe it? Is it just because the predictions never happen and a new one kicking the can down the road pops up all the time? Something else?

 

First, why deplatforming works:

 

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QAnon theories often start out on fringe internet forums like 8kun and 4chan, according to Alethea Group's Kaplan. But once a claim gains popularity there it can quickly catapult onto mainstream social media networks. "It becomes especially dangerous once these conspiracies go on to platforms like Twitter and Facebook, because it increases the breadth of the reach that these false conspiracies have," she said.

 

Now, as for the guy in the tweet, this guy's background is as such: he's Australian, but comparing that politics to the US is like comparing CSPAN shows to OAN/Fox.

 

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Jadeja, the former QAnon believer, is Australian. But he said he's always been interested in American politics. He spent time studying in the US, living in Queens, New York. His nationality is a testament to the fact that QAnon has spread well beyond the United States.

"If you'd look in Australian politics, it's boring by comparison," Jadeja said. "American politics, it's like, it's like a car crash you can't look away from."

During the 2016 US presidential election, Jadeja said, he was drawn to then-candidate Bernie Sanders. He liked what Sanders had to say about inequality and his "anti-establishment sentiment."

But then Trump won. "That kind of really kicked it all off for me," Jadeja said.

It felt to him like the world was shocked by Trump's win. How had seemingly no one seen it coming? And most importantly, who had? "I kind of switched off from all mainstream media," Jadeja said.

That's when he began listening to conspiracy theorist Alex Jones and reading Infowars, which exposed him to QAnon theories for the first time. By December 2017, he identified as a Q follower.

 

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Then he'd move on to read the interpretations of those posts from other believers. These interpretations are popular among the QAnon community because posts from "Q" are often so vague that they can be read in any number of ways.

 

Now, what caused him to disassociate? Started with Assange:

 

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After two years in the world of QAnon, Jadeja said, cracks began to form in his conviction. He believed Wikileaks founder Julian Assange had been instrumental in "exposing" Hillary Clinton and had helped win Trump the election. If Trump was trying to bring down the cabal, Jadeja wondered, how could he let Assange face extradition to the US for charges related to publishing secret military and diplomatic documents? 

 

But what really put it out was something so seemingly small:

 

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But there was one particular piece of "proof" he was still holding on to.

It went like this: A QAnon follower had supposedly asked Q to tell President Trump to use the phrase "tip top" in a speech. Then Trump did.

To Jadeja, that had been proof that Q existed and had the ear of the president.

But then, as his doubts mounted, he decided to research it further and came across a YouTube video that showed other times Trump had previously said the phrase or something similar. Suddenly "tip top" was no longer irrefutable proof, it was probably just coincidence.

For others, that might have easily been glossed over, a blip easily dismissed in their belief. But for Jadeja, who was nearing a break with QAnon, it was a turning point.

"It was the worst feeling I had in my life," Jadeja said.

 

He wrote this Reddit post:

 

 

He thought the group would ridicule him for believing in the conspiracy theory. "I expected to be torn apart," he said. Instead, the opposite happened. According to Jadeja, he got over a hundred responses to his post — and nearly all of them were supportive. "These guys put me back together again."

 

 

[SaysWho?]

This person was a bit more straight-forward.

 

She was stunned by Biden's inauguration. How this South Carolina mom escaped QAnon

WWW.CNN.COM

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Ashley Vanderbilt says her four-year-old daughter Emmerson knew "something was wrong with her mom."

 

 

First, how it supercharged: lots of time on her hands during the pandemic, a common theme.

 

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Vanderbilt worked in the office of a construction company. But, like millions of Americans in 2020, she says she lost her job at the start of the Covid-19 lockdown. Feeling depressed and with more time on her hands, she began spending a lot of time online.

The 27-year-old mom is an avid user of the video app TikTok. It's there, she says, that she was first introduced to QAnon.

 

And how the election shattered her:

 

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First, Trump would declare martial law, then the Democrats (and some Republicans) and the Hollywood celebrities in Washington, DC for the inauguration would be rounded up and arrested. Trump had "opened back up Guantanamo Bay" (it never closed) and "increased the capacity to 200,000."

...

But on the morning of January 20th, 2021, Trump flew out of Washington to his new home in Florida and Biden became the 46th President of the United States.

"I was devastated," Vanderbilt recalls. "Instantly, I went into panic mode."

She called her mom who was at work. "I just told her it's like we're all going to die. We're going to be owned by China. And I was like, I might have to pull my daughter out of school because they're going to take her."

Her mom tried to calm her down. "Obviously God's will was to have President Biden come in for this country, so it's going to be fine," Vanderbilt says her mom told her. "This happens all the time. It's an election. Parties switch, no big deal."

After their call she said her mom texted her a warning to not take her daughter out of school.
 

 

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And so some QAnon adherents concocted a new conspiracy theory in the hours after inauguration. President Joe Biden's inauguration itself was a key part of the plan, the new theory held, and Trump would return as President in the coming few weeks. Then, certainly, all the deep-state arrests would happen.

That was a step too far for Vanderbilt. She began to realize that she had bought into a lie with an almost religious fervor. Over the past two weeks she has been posting on TikTok, the platform that dragged her into the conspiracy theory, sharing her story in the hope that it might help or inspire others to see the light.

 

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She was able to do something that many people, including some elected representatives and a few members of the Republican Party, are not. She has admitted she was wrong and has condemned QAnon as a dangerous political movement.

 

[Chris-]

I’m reading ‘Republic of Lies’ by Anna Merlan, which has been excellent, and one of the biggest takeaways I’ve had so far is how conspiracy theories correlate with social/economic upheaval...Take everything that is wrong with this country (gross economic inequality, social injustice towards minorities, population changes, poor access to health care), add the echo chamber that social media can create, and it is a perfect storm. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

This is a society founded on delusions that have perpetuated for 500 years.

[Uaarkson]

2 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

This is a society founded on delusions that have perpetuated for 500 years.

I was gonna say. This is nothing new. Americans have been deep into nonsense conspiracy theories from the very beginning. Now it’s just streaming 24/7 in our hands.

[MarSolo]

I feel like a conspiracy theorist when I’m saying stuff like “guys, for real, Breath of the Wild 2 could come out this year” on a forum and offer reasons why it could.

 

But stuff like this? Jesus Harrison Ford Christ. This shit is wild.

[Mr.Vic20]

I didn't know where to put this, but this topic seems right. Recently I ended a 20 year friendship over this crap and it broke my heart to do so. He's gone full paranoid, saying the vote was stolen and the fascists are coming for him and his wife, sooooo he NEEDS his concealed carry permit and gallows on the Whitehouse lawn (things he actually said). This former friend was/is no mental slouch either, he graduated from Cornell with a masters degree in astrophysics and yet some how, here we are. I'm not suggesting ivy league means you're smart, I'm suggesting he is not well off enough to have graduated from such an institution without being on point. Basically, his dad couldn't pay for a new building on campus, so he actually had to do the work when he was there. He may not be a genius, but he's a sharp guy!

 

  The whole experience really made me feel dumbfounded that it was happening at all let alone how deranged his worldview had become. Perhaps the most appalling aspect was just how cookie cutter his every argument was. He was always one to enjoy an "out there" theory, if for no other reason than to kick it around in group conversations. But he would also play devil's advocate against his own arguments and accepted logical challenges to his arguments. Now though, over the last four years, he has slowly shifted to becoming a predictable mouth piece for far right propaganda. I take periodic crawls through some forums that encourage such talk, and so could always tell what he would be spewing come the next time we had a hang out. Last week, we were set to play through Gears 5 campaign and I simply reached a point in the conversation where I said, I can't do this any more. He literarily responded with "The ballet or the bullet" and kept repeating this until I ended the chat. This insanity has hit too close to home for me and I'm still fairly angry and sad about what has been lost as a consequence. Is it too early to call the 21st century? I'm too old for this shit! 

[Bloodporne]

1 hour ago, Mr.Vic20 said:

I didn't know where to put this, but this topic seems right. Recently I ended a 20 year friendship over this crap and it broke my heart to do so. He's gone full paranoid, saying the vote was stolen and the fascists are coming for him and his wife, sooooo he NEEDS his concealed carry permit and gallows on the Whitehouse lawn (things he actually said). This former friend was/is no mental slouch either, he graduated from Cornell with a masters degree in astrophysics and yet some how, here we are. I'm not suggesting ivy league means you're smart, I'm suggesting he is not well off enough to have graduated from such an institution without being on point. Basically, his dad couldn't pay for a new building on campus, so he actually had to do the work when he was there. He may not be a genius, but he's a sharp guy!

 

  The whole experience really made me feel dumbfounded that it was happening at all let alone how deranged his worldview had become. Perhaps the most appalling aspect was just how cookie cutter his every argument was. He was always one to enjoy an "out there" theory, if for no other reason than to kick it around in group conversations. But he would also play devil's advocate against his own arguments and accepted logical challenges to his arguments. Now though, over the last four years, he has slowly shifted to becoming a predictable mouth piece for far right propaganda. I take periodic crawls through some forums that encourage such talk, and so could always tell what he would be spewing come the next time we had a hang out. Last week, we were set to play through Gears 5 campaign and I simply reached a point in the conversation where I said, I can't do this any more. He literarily responded with "The ballet or the bullet" and kept repeating this until I ended the chat. This insanity has hit too close to home for me and I'm still fairly angry and sad about what has been lost as a consequence. Is it too early to call the 21st century? I'm too old for this shit! 

I've complained about my own family member on this board several times by now and yeah, it seems to just utterly consume people to a degree I haven't seen or at least noticed before. It gets to a point where literally everything leads back to government/politics drama, some conspiracy or some such utter nonsense. My best friend had a pretty severe case of Covid and I couldn't even tell her how worried I was despite her knowing him for many, many years herself just because I knew it would end in a conspiracy tirade about how it's all fake and bullshit and he just has a cold. 

[BloodyHell]

5 hours ago, MarSolo said:

I feel like a conspiracy theorist when I’m saying stuff like “guys, for real, Breath of the Wild 2 could come out this year” on a forum and offer reasons why it could.

 

But stuff like this? Jesus Harrison Ford Christ. This shit is wild.

That, sir, is not a conspiracy!

 

I had to cut out my aunt, and my wife should definitely cut off her brother, he's completely lost in this shit. But she won't. I blocked his number from texting me with his crazy bs, and he's been ranting about me to her ever since.

 

Her mom called and was like, "you should keep the peace!"

 

No, I will not suffer crazy ffrom those who want no help.

[Fizzzzle]

People always want to believe in a boogeyman. It makes the world make sense. It can never be "some terrorists just hijacked some planes and flew them into a building," no, there had to be someone behind it. Someone pulling the strings. There's no way the world is just chaos.

 

That goes for all kinds of things. Like people who believe the CIA introduced crack to keep the black people down, people who believe the moon landing is faked, people who believe Bill Gates is trying to install nanobots or whatever into our blood, whatever.

 

I try to narrow down the conspiracies when people bring them up.

 

1) Who? Who is behind this conspiracy?

2) Why? What do they stand to gain from this racket?

3) How? By what means do you think they're doing whatever it is they're doing?

 

Often, at least one of the three falls apart under even the smallest amount of scrutiny. Take 9/11 truthers for example. Who is behind it? The government. Why? They wanted a war. Alright, two for two so far, that checks out. How? They got TENS OF THOUSANDS of people to cooperate on a project without ever breaking a code of silence, from the president all the way down to firefighters. Bill Gates is trying to inject us with nanobots through vaccines. Who? Bill Gates, obviously. How? Vaccines, obviously. Why? ... uh, because... he's rich, and rich people bad? Make mind control?

 

Every single conspiracy theory fails one of those three tests if you think about it critically for longer than 10 seconds. But people latch onto them because it makes the world sound more ordered and less like we're all just a bunch of meat tubes flailing about in an endless void.

[Mr.Vic20]

5 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

People always want to believe in a boogeyman. It makes the world make sense. It can never be "some terrorists just hijacked some planes and flew them into a building," no, there had to be someone behind it. Someone pulling the strings. There's no way the world is just chaos.

 

That goes for all kinds of things. Like people who believe the CIA introduced crack to keep the black people down, people who believe the moon landing is faked, people who believe Bill Gates is trying to install nanobots or whatever into our blood, whatever.

 

I try to narrow down the conspiracies when people bring them up.

 

1) Who? Who is behind this conspiracy?

2) Why? What do they stand to gain from this racket?

3) How? By what means do you think they're doing whatever it is they're doing?

 

Often, at least one of the three falls apart under even the smallest amount of scrutiny. Take 9/11 truthers for example. Who is behind it? The government. Why? They wanted a war. Alright, two for two so far, that checks out. How? They got TENS OF THOUSANDS of people to cooperate on a project without ever breaking a code of silence, from the president all the way down to firefighters. Bill Gates is trying to inject us with nanobots through vaccines. Who? Bill Gates, obviously. How? Vaccines, obviously. Why? ... uh, because... he's rich, and rich people bad? Make mind control?

 

Every single conspiracy theory fails one of those three tests if you think about it critically for longer than 10 seconds. But people latch onto them because it makes the world sound more ordered and less like we're all just a bunch of meat tubes flailing about in an endless void.

That's just what a conspiratorial kingpin would say! 

[Fizzzzle]

2 minutes ago, Mr.Vic20 said:

That's just what a conspiratorial kingpin would say! 

Fuck, you're giving me flashbacks to my super-into-astrology ex girlfriend.

[Mr.Vic20]

1 minute ago, Fizzzzle said:

Fuck, you're giving me flashbacks to my super-into-astrology ex girlfriend.

My wife says: THAT's just what a Virgo would say! 

[legend]

I don't trust anyone who says they "escaped it" at this point. If you were this fucking brain dead, I have zero confidence you wont be similarly brain dead again.

 

I'm trying to sort out what that means we as a society need to do to defend against this high percentage of deeply brain dead individuals. I generally don't like "shaming" people but maybe it's the only kind of currency that will keep them in check. I really don't know and I find that troubling.

[Xbob42]

We just need to have a Gathering of the Q at a lake, and give them all placebos. Tell them it'll let them breathe underwater, give them some iron boots, and let the problem solve itself.

[Fizzzzle]

5 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

We just need to have a Gathering of the Q at a lake, and give them all placebos. Tell them it'll let them breathe underwater, give them some iron boots, and let the problem solve itself.

They'll believe iron boots are a pedo conspiracy from beelzebub propagated from the pope who is secretly an alien.

[BloodyHell]

1 hour ago, legend said:

I don't trust anyone who says they "escaped it" at this point. If you were this fucking brain dead, I have zero confidence you wont be similarly brain dead again.

 

I'm trying to sort out what that means we as a society need to do to defend against this high percentage of deeply brain dead individuals. I generally don't like "shaming" people but maybe it's the only kind of currency that will keep them in check. I really don't know and I find that troubling.

Plenty of people get out of cults and lead Normal lives. I believe we have some on this forum 

[Ominous]

28 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

Plenty of people get out of cults and lead Normal lives. I believe we have some on this forum 

Any atheists that were religious earlier in theory life? 

[Mr.Vic20]

5 minutes ago, Ominous said:

Any atheists that were religious earlier in theory life? 

I was raised in a cult and I am definitely atheist! My parents and those people were/are tragic, deluded fools, looking for meaning in madness. Also, both my parents are terrible cooks, so you know, I had to go! 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

The thing is I don’t find myself feeling sorry for them. They’re adults. This isn’t like being indoctrinated into a religion, because as a kid their parents always took the to church and church functions/activities. A child raises in a religious home that breaks free in like their college/adult years I have some sympathy for. But an adult that couldn’t see through the bullshit and got sucked in. I just so t have the same level of sympathy. 

[BloodyHell]

38 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

The thing is I don’t find myself feeling sorry for them. They’re adults. This isn’t like being indoctrinated into a religion, because as a kid their parents always took the to church and church functions/activities. A child raises in a religious home that breaks free in like their college/adult years I have some sympathy for. But an adult that couldn’t see through the bullshit and got sucked in. I just so t have the same level of sympathy. 

Man, it happens every day, all over the world. This is just the first time there has been mass delusion like this. Incredibly intelligent adults join cults every day. Including very famous people. 

In fact, I'd say both parties employ cult tactics. The right is just worst.

 

Some are definitely just bad people, but a bunch really thought they were saving the world from Anderson Cooper.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

1 hour ago, BloodyHell said:

Man, it happens every day, all over the world. This is just the first time there has been mass delusion like this. Incredibly intelligent adults join cults every day. Including very famous people. 

In fact, I'd say both parties employ cult tactics. The right is just worst.

 

Some are definitely just bad people, but a bunch really thought they were saving the world from Anderson Cooper.

yeah, but they’re adults. I just don’t have the same sympathy I would have for say a kid that when they moved away to college realizes the weird dogmatic teaching of a church their parents forced them to go to as a kid as being “insane”. 
 

these are adults that should know better. The fact that they only realize that after many can kicking down the road moments, when they see the same people make excuses as to why a dead politician figure didn’t suddenly rise up to arrest and expose people associated with liquefying children to keep celebrities youthful, that they suddenly “woke up” to finally think “maybe this isn’t true”; yeah I just can’t clap my hands for them and welcome them as heroes. 
 

they’re morons without the excuse of having no free will where to go or who to listen to. They deserve no praise. They, if anything, should never be allowed to vote, hold public office, and never be in a “management” position at their job. I find the fact that many of these Q  morons have jobs making in excess of $100k a year while smarter people sell them groceries for $7.50/hour to be a gross miscarriage of justice in this country.

 

they should be forever treated with contempt. Never allowed to live in poverty, because that is beyond inhuman, but also never allowed to represent middle class or better in American society. They are mentally challenged, in every sense of the term. They need adult supervision to ensure they are making sound decisions for the rest of their lives. 

[legend]

The Q cult is particularly stupid. I could maybe give some slack if these were brainwashed children, but I find it hard to imagine you can be sucked into something so obviously stupid and not be a perpetual liability in life. That's why I think the most we can hope for is just actively suppressing these people from their worst tendencies, but I don't think I would ever trust them on their own, "escaped" or not.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

My mother's reaction to Q: "Why are white American people so damned stupid?"

 

My half-brother's reaction to Q: "This just goes to show that Americans are the second dumbest people on Earth."

[Air_Delivery]

13 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

My mother's reaction to Q: "Why are white American people so damned stupid?"

 

My half-brother's reaction to Q: "This just goes to show that Americans are the second dumbest people on Earth."

I would agree if this shit didn't spread worldwide. 

[Ghost_MH]

21 minutes ago, legend said:

The Q cult is particularly stupid. I could maybe give some slack if these were brainwashed children, but I find it hard to imagine you can be sucked into something so obviously stupid and not be a perpetual liability in life. That's why I think the most we can hope for is just actively suppressing these people from their worst tendencies, but I don't think I would ever trust them on their own, "escaped" or not.

 

One thing that you need to remember about this Q cultists is that for a lot of them, this is an extension of their already ingrained religious, particularly Christian, beliefs. I can easily see how someone very familiar with fire and brimstone, Apocalyptic Christianity can go from watching YouTube peachers talking about the signs of the end times to YouTube peachers talking about Satan worship and demonology to YouTube peachers that are full on Q freaks.

 

The almighty algorithms used by YouTube and Facebook inevitably push people down this rabbit hole and even smart people are wholly unprepared with how to deal with that.

[thewhyteboar]

The Q stuff is just so fascinating to me. We've been able to witness the creation of a conspiracy theory in real-time. It's absolutely batshit insane, yet has gained so many devoted followers.

 

Conservatives have always been attracted to conspiracy theories, whether it's the John Birch Society, or thinking that JFK will sell America out to the Pope.

 

There's a real link between QAnon and Christianity, especially evangelicals. Those of us who grew up in or adjacent to nutty Protestant churches are well aware of how many of them already believe wild things.

[legend]

7 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

One thing that you need to remember about this Q cultists is that for a lot of them, this is an extension of their already ingrained religious, particularly Christian, beliefs. I can easily see how someone very familiar with fire and brimstone, Apocalyptic Christianity can go from watching YouTube peachers talking about the signs of the end times to YouTube peachers talking about Satan worship and demonology to YouTube peachers that are full on Q freaks.

 

The almighty algorithms used by YouTube and Facebook inevitably push people down this rabbit hole and even smart people are wholly unprepared with how to deal with that.

 

I do not for a moment believe that that this could happen to anyone. It may be able to happen to a lot of people, but that simply doesn't speak well for humanity and only makes my concern about how to prevent society from being dragged down by such stupidity all the more dire.

[Jason]

51 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

My mother's reaction to Q: "Why are white American people so damned stupid?"

 

My half-brother's reaction to Q: "This just goes to show that Americans are the second dumbest people on Earth."

 

Who's first dumbest?

[CastlevaniaNut18]

4 hours ago, Ominous said:

Any atheists that were religious earlier in theory life? 

Me. My deconversion happened in the early days of this forum and I discussed it at length. As far as I know, I remain the only atheist in a deeply religious family. My husband was the same. He just stopped believing in his teens instead of 20s. 
 

A lot of atheists have these stories. 

[Ghost_MH]

9 minutes ago, legend said:

 

I do not for a moment believe that that this could happen to anyone. It may be able to happen to a lot of people, but that simply doesn't speak well for humanity and only makes my concern about how to prevent society from being dragged down by such stupidity all the more dire.

 

You have WAY too much faith in humanity then. People are simple. They look for answers when there are none. For years folks have been spoon fed conspiracies about Soros and the murderous Clintons, climate change and false flag operations on the most popular, most mainstream talk radio in the nation and the most popular, most mainstream cable news network in the nation. Thid leap is, unfortunately, not as far as it may look on the surface.

 

You had a president stoking fear and anger every chance he got, joblessness, sinking despair as everything gets more expensive and wages remain stagnant, and then a pandemic that the highest levels of government played off as a conspiracy themselves. Even if things are fairly stable by historic standards, it feels chaotic thanks to the side of information.

 

My bedroom has a randomly textured ceiling. There's this bunch of squiggles that looks like a face when I'm not wearing my glasses...which I do a lot in bed, coincidentally. We, as a species, are just trained to look for patterns in things. Sometimes when folks, even successful folks, look out at the world looking for answers they can easily be lead down destructive paths. That's nothing new. We just get to combine that great human feature with the anonymity of the Internet and trolls and sickos. It's a great pairing.

[Air_Delivery]

I posted this a few weeks ago and it still is the best article on QAnon, how it works and why it works on people

 

A Game Designer’s Analysis Of QAnon | by Rabbit Rabbit | curiouserinstitute | Medium

MEDIUM.COM

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Playing with reality

 

[Keyser_Soze]

13 hours ago, Mr.Vic20 said:

I didn't know where to put this, but this topic seems right. Recently I ended a 20 year friendship over this crap and it broke my heart to do so.

 

Hey I was just joking around. Let's be friends again ok? 

[MarSolo]

I just think we all owe Tom Cruise an apology for making fun of Scientology.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

6 hours ago, Jason said:

 

Who's first dumbest?

 

Canadians