Joe Biden beats Donald Trump, officially making Trump a one-term twice impeached, twice popular-vote losing president

[marioandsonic]

I believe that, even if Biden wins in a landslide, Trump and his cronies will somehow find a way to keep him in power.

 

I am a complete pessimist that has no hope in this country, in its population, its rulers, or for humanity in general.  And 2020 has confirmed those beliefs for me.

 

Does that help?

[SaysWho?]

For years, I thought that if I don't set expectations too high, then I can't be disappointed. I never knew how far people would take that. It's impossible to talk about anything because everything is worst case scenario, followed by Democrats are weak.

 

I actually find it more sensible to say Biden has run for president 3 * and he'll carry Trump out if you have to do to get into the White House if he wins The Electoral College.

[SuperSpreader]

1 minute ago, marioandsonic said:

 

I am a complete pessimist that has no hope in this country, in its population, its rulers, or for humanity in general.  And 2020 has confirmed those beliefs for me.

 

Does that help?

I love it. 

[Joe]

2 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

I'll be happy, thrilled even, to be wrong.

 

But re: Dems, history indicates that nothing will happen, especially given the centrist push to not have judicial reform or filibuster reform. Again, I'd be thrilled to be wrong but I'm not setting myself up for disappointment or disillusionment.

 

I'm just saying you guys frame everything in a negative light and it can be exhausting. I don't even disagree with you about the SCOTUS ruling atm, but to see it is a tossup whether it ends up there is downright silly right now.

 

Dems will surely be frustrating, but there will still be things accomplished if they have all three branches.

[mclumber1]

Why it's important for the Dems to retake the Senate:  If Trump tries to take over electors from a state (or states), members of Congress can object to those electoral votes.

 

http://history.house.gov//_images/favicon.png Electoral College Fast Facts | US House of Representatives: History, Art & Archives

HISTORY.HOUSE.GOV

---

Established in Article II, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution, the Electoral College is the formal body which elects the President and Vice President of the United States. Each state has as many "electors" in the Electoral College as it has Representatives and Senators in the United States Congress, and the District of Columbia has three electors. When voters go to the polls in a Presidential election, they actually are...

 

Since 1887, 3 U.S.C. 15 sets the method for objections to electoral votes. During the Joint Session, Members of Congress may object to individual electoral votes or to state returns as a whole. An objection must be declared in writing and signed by at least one Representative and one Senator. In the case of an objection, the Joint Session recesses and each chamber considers the objection separately in a session which cannot last more than two hours with each Member speaking for no more than five minutes. After each house votes on whether or not to accept the objection, the Joint Session reconvenes and both chambers disclose their decisions. If they agree to the objection, the votes in question are not counted. If either chamber does not agree with the objection, the votes are counted.
Objections to the Electoral College votes were recorded in 1969 and 2005. In both cases, the House and Senate rejected the objections and the votes in question were counted.

[Ghost_MH]

2 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

For years, I thought that if I don't set expectations too high, then I can't be disappointed. I never knew how far people would take that. It's impossible to talk about anything because everything is worst case scenario, followed by Democrats are weak.

 

I actually find it more sensible to say Biden has run for president 3 * and he'll carry Trump out if you have to do to get into the White House if he wins The Electoral College.

 

It's not pessimism. I was having this conversation with some family last week after the debates. They were shocked that Trump is racist. I was confused, because, like how could anyone in the year of our Lord 2020 be shocked? They had assumed that people calling Trump racist were just haters just making up some improbable reason as to why Trump is so bad. It's like those folks that don't believe Trump is actually fighting to remove coverage for pre-existing conditions. It's so terrible that people don't think it's true even though it's actually happening right before our eyes.

 

In this case, Republicans are literally talking about choosing their own electors if the election isn't decided in a "swift and accurate" manner and we already know nothing about the election this year will be swift and that Trump and every one of his cronies are ALREADY declaring the election inaccurate and rife with fraud.

 

I'm just taking what these guys say at face value and setting my expectations there.

[Amazatron]

23 minutes ago, Joe said:

My man, you know I take receipts.

On 10/4/2020 at 10:24 AM, Joe said:

He's definitely not being released Monday.

 

Just saying, Republicans do whatever they want and they get away with it. The AG is Trump's personal attorney, and they will hold the SCOTUS at 6-3. Meanwhile, each and every Republican politician is at best complicit in this administration's bullshit. A lot of them will be desperate for Trump to stay in power because they know how much shit they will be in if he gets ousted.

[osxmatt]

16 minutes ago, marioandsonic said:

I believe that, even if Biden wins in a landslide, Trump and his cronies will somehow find a way to keep him in power.

 

I am a complete pessimist that has no hope in this country, in its population, its rulers, or for humanity in general.  And 2020 has confirmed those beliefs for me.

 

Does that help?

 

If Biden wins in a landslide, Trump will have until Jan 20th to destroy the office of the presidency, and I fully expect him to do so, both domestically and abroad.

[SaysWho?]

It is pessimism. And it's unrealistic pessimism. The board has collectively gone well past the point of, "Just setting my expectations low so I'm not disappointed."

 

Joe is right. The nonstop pessimism is exhausting, and there's no point for this board to even be here for us to post if every piece of news automatically gets the most negative spin imaginable. Biden's polls have improved across the board and we're talking about SCOTUS. In 2016 when the Comey letter came out and the polls tightened, the pessimism made sense. Why not wait for that possibility?

 

Here, there's not a single thing you can post before someone goes

 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

29 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

For years, I thought that if I don't set expectations too high, then I can't be disappointed. I never knew how far people would take that. It's impossible to talk about anything because everything is worst case scenario, followed by Democrats are weak.

 

I actually find it more sensible to say Biden has run for president 3 * and he'll carry Trump out if you have to do to get into the White House if he wins The Electoral College.

No one wants to hear my take that I actually think Biden is underperforming in polls and will win in a landslide

 

28 minutes ago, Joe said:

 

I'm just saying you guys frame everything in a negative light and it can be exhausting. I don't even disagree with you about the SCOTUS ruling atm, but to see it is a tossup whether it ends up there is downright silly right now.

 

Dems will surely be frustrating, but there will still be things accomplished if they have all three branches.

I agree some things will get done...but the laundry list of things that need to get done is massive, (covid/economic relief, meaningful judicial reform, admission of new state(s), voting rights act redux, climate legislation, and that's before taking heed of some of the other immediate material needs like health care) and if the filibuster isn't nixed there is none of this. None. Without judicial reform most all of this is gone as well. Without the VRA redux and admission of new state(s), these gains are fleeting at best. Republicans will be going back to bad faith fighting on the deficit and won't sign up for any of this.

 

I'm ok with doing these things even to moderate ends, but you need to be willing to actually exercise political power, something that many Senate Dems seem unwilling to do, based on word and deed

 

Delighted to be wrong!

[Jason]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1313511340124917760?s=19

[MarSolo]

I swear I time traveled back to 2018 and almost went into a bar maskless because I SWEAR I read this almost exact same argument in 2018 between you guys and @SaysWho?. 
 

Ya’ll were a bunch of negative nancies and he’s like, “LISTEN, HERES THE FUCKING DATA!”

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

4 minutes ago, MarSolo said:

I swear I time traveled back to 2018 and almost went into a bar maskless because I SWEAR I read this almost exact same argument in 2018 between you guys and @SaysWho?. 
 

Ya’ll were a bunch of negative nancies and he’s like, “LISTEN, HERES THE FUCKING DATA!”

That's not at all what I'm arguing but ok. Like I said, I think Biden wins by a larger margin than his polling indicates. I'm making an argument that is political using a plausible interpretation of the constitution, not "the polls are wrong"

[marioandsonic]

9 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

 

 

[MarSolo]

There’s no fucking way they do that.

 

Sorry, you’re setting insane expectations to get yourselves disappointed.

 

It’s like a sitcom character going on a date and worrying about every single reason why he’ll fail and then it turns out all his quirky little quirks is what nets him the woman on the date.

[marioandsonic]

5 minutes ago, MarSolo said:

There’s no fucking way they do that.

 

Sorry, you’re setting insane expectations to get yourselves disappointed.

 

It’s like a sitcom character going on a date and worrying about every single reason while he’ll fail and then it turns out all his quirky little quirks is what nets him the woman on the date.

 

That's me IRL, except I just assume every woman in the world finds me repulsive, so I never try.

 

Look, I WANT to believe that Biden will win.  I WANT to believe that he'll bring in the White House in January, and that Trump will be kicked out, no matter how much pissing and moaning he does.  I WANT to believe that things will get better, and back to at least a semi-normal state, and that 2016-2020 will only be remembered as a footnote as one of the worst times in US history.

 

But...I can't.  I just...I just can't.

[Jason]

Didn't someone just post a Fox story about this? I guess we know what Trump is doing right now.

 

 

[Joe]

49 minutes ago, Amazatron said:

 

Just saying, Republicans do whatever they want and they get away with it. The AG is Trump's personal attorney, and they will hold the SCOTUS at 6-3. Meanwhile, each and every Republican politician is at best complicit in this administration's bullshit. A lot of them will be desperate for Trump to stay in power because they know how much shit they will be in if he gets ousted.

 

I mean what is happening definitely defies logic though. Also I didn't call anyone who disagrees with me an idiot.

[Ghost_MH]

27 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

That's not at all what I'm arguing but ok. Like I said, I think Biden wins by a larger margin than his polling indicates. I'm making an argument that is political using a plausible interpretation of the constitution, not "the polls are wrong"

 

Yeah, I think the polls are absolutely correct here. They were in 2016 and polls and methods for collecting and analyzing 

data have only improved since then.

 

24 minutes ago, MarSolo said:

There’s no fucking way they do that.

 

Sorry, you’re setting insane expectations to get yourselves disappointed.

 

It’s like a sitcom character going on a date and worrying about every single reason why he’ll fail and then it turns out all his quirky little quirks is what nets him the woman on the date.

 

In this scenario, the woman is literally spending the entire the date telling the sitcom character every reason why he's failing.

 

I'm doing nothing more than literally taking Trump and the rest of the Republican party at their word. If Biden wins and Republicans get cold feet, then cool. I'd be absolutely elated. Until then, I have no reason to hear them say one thing and then brush it off as "no way they'd be crazy enough to do that". What about this murder hornet, plague infested, riotting year would leave me to think Republicans are bluffing here? Why should anyone be so charitable?

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

31 minutes ago, MarSolo said:

There’s no fucking way they do that.

It's a legal possibility, and has some adherence in some corners of GOP legislatures, and in the open. These people are already largely insulated from the pressures of competitive elections (outside of primary, base focused elections) so there's not much downside for them electorally. The legal details are laid out how how this could potentially go down. Our system isn't good, and prone to these manipulations.

 

This could also go down in Senate races, controlling power in that chamber as well!

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

Wow haha boy I feel like an idiot, they'd never do this stuff

 

the 2015 case here is Arizona State legislature vs Arizona independent redistricting commission

Quote

Dissents
Chief Justice John Roberts filed a dissenting opinion, joined by Justices Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas, and Samuel Alito. Scalia and Thomas each wrote additional dissents which the other joined.[3] Roberts concluded that the term “the Legislature” in the Elections Clause unambiguously refers to a representative body as "confirmed by other provisions of the Constitution that use the same term in the same way. When seeking to discern the meaning of a word in the Constitution, there is no better dictionary than the rest of the Constitution itself."

Per Wikipedia

[ort]

49 minutes ago, Jason said:

Didn't someone just post a Fox story about this? I guess we know what Trump is doing right now.

 

 

 

So go do a fucking town hall you fucking monster.

[TwinIon]

1 hour ago, mclumber1 said:

Why it's important for the Dems to retake the Senate:  If Trump tries to take over electors from a state (or states), members of Congress can object to those electoral votes.

 

http://history.house.gov//_images/favicon.png Electoral College Fast Facts | US House of Representatives: History, Art & Archives

HISTORY.HOUSE.GOV

---

Established in Article II, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution, the Electoral College is the formal body which elects the President and Vice President of the United States. Each state has as many "electors" in the Electoral College as it has Representatives and Senators in the United States Congress, and the District of Columbia has three electors. When voters go to the polls in a Presidential election, they actually are...

 

Since 1887, 3 U.S.C. 15 sets the method for objections to electoral votes. During the Joint Session, Members of Congress may object to individual electoral votes or to state returns as a whole. An objection must be declared in writing and signed by at least one Representative and one Senator. In the case of an objection, the Joint Session recesses and each chamber considers the objection separately in a session which cannot last more than two hours with each Member speaking for no more than five minutes. After each house votes on whether or not to accept the objection, the Joint Session reconvenes and both chambers disclose their decisions. If they agree to the objection, the votes in question are not counted. If either chamber does not agree with the objection, the votes are counted.
Objections to the Electoral College votes were recorded in 1969 and 2005. In both cases, the House and Senate rejected the objections and the votes in question were counted.

I won't pretend to be any kind of authority on the subject, and certainly won't downplay the importance of winning the Senate, in a hypothetical situation where Democrats have won a Senate majority and faithless electors are trying to sway an election towards Trump, it still seems like a whole bunch of norms would have to hold up.

 

That article specifies the law that sets out how Congress would object to electoral votes, but as far as I can tell the Senate procedure on the first day is a well established routine, not specifically laid out by law. It would be unprecedented for McConnel to attempt to call the joint session to count electoral votes before swearing in new Senators, but if you're trying to steal an election, who's going to stop him?

 

I don't think it will come to that, but increasingly it seems like the structures that keep our Democracy working are norms, and even if they are laws, that only matters if the people in power decide to wield it.

 

[Remarkableriots]

 

[Jason]

18 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Wow haha boy I feel like an idiot, they'd never do this stuff

 

the 2015 case here is Arizona State legislature vs Arizona independent redistricting commission

Per Wikipedia

 

[Ghost_MH]

4 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

 

I wonder why Republicans think the only way the election can be honest is if they hold a stronger majority in the SCOTUS.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

It's all much ado about nothing, the polls!

[CitizenVectron]

 

[SuperSpreader]

27 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

This is definitely a Trump request

[Joe]

She needs to refuse to debate.

[CitizenVectron]

3 minutes ago, Joe said:

She needs to refuse to debate.

 

Even better would be if the commission refused his request, and Pence had to choose whether to back out or show up.

[chakoo]

3 minutes ago, Joe said:

She needs to refuse to debate.

Nah, they want that. She needs to get the Commission to put their foot down and say the plexiglass must stay.

[Ghost_MH]

3 minutes ago, Joe said:

She needs to refuse to debate.

 

She just needs to show up with a shield and let Pence refuse to join her in stage. This is definitely Trump and Pence trying to goad her into bowing out.

[mclumber1]

5 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

She just needs to show up with a shield and let Pence refuse to join her in stage. This is definitely Trump and Pence trying to goad her into bowing out.

 

Yep.  Do what Harrison did during his debate with Lady G.

 

[CitizenVectron]

Another +14 poll for Biden:

 

 

Quote

The nationwide poll reveals that instead of a sympathy factor for Trump, there’s been a stunning drop in the Republican president’s poll numbers since he revealed his diagnosis last Friday.

 

In two days of polling before Trump got COVID, the president trailed Biden by just a 46-41% margin. In the three days of polling after the coronavirus diagnosis, Biden held a 55-34% lead. That means Biden’s lead grew by a whopping 16 points from pre-COVID to post-COVID.

 

lol