Trump Rollback of Mileage Standards Guts Climate Change Push

[Jason]

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2020/03/31/business/bc-us-trump-mileage-rollback.html

 

 

[SuperSpreader]

2 minutes ago, Jason said:

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2020/03/31/business/bc-us-trump-mileage-rollback.html

 

 

k 

[ort]

All the trucks hauling bodies away will be so much more affordable.

[mclumber1]

Even though gas is cheaper now, no one will be able to afford new 9 mpg SUVs.  So, no harm, no foul!

[CitizenVectron]

He claims they will be $3500 cheaper...where does he get that number from? The cost of R&D spread over millions of vehicles? Isn't much of the R&D already done for the medium-term?

[Jason]

4 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

He claims they will be $3500 cheaper...where does he get that number from?

 

His bigly brain which knows all the strongest things.

[Mr.Vic20]

Who cares when his base is comfortably dumb? We have underestimated the power of dumb. Dumb let's their children die for Jesus. Dumb secretly feels that easy power is "better" than then responsible power. Dumb thinks there is a difference in the potential quality of a person because of their skin tone. Dumb thinks science is for "know it all" types. Dumb thinks a lot of things, but rarely does it think about what will fuck it in the end, only what scares it to its face.  There is no tomorrow for dumb, only its feelings right now. 

 

                                                                                                                                 - a shitty poem by Vic.20

 

 

                                                                                                

 

[osxmatt]

Politically correct automobile companies.

[Keyser_Soze]

2 hours ago, Mr.Vic20 said:

Who cares when his base is comfortably dumb? We have underestimated the power of dumb. Dumb let's their children die for Jesus. Dumb secretly feels that easy power is "better" than then responsible power. Dumb thinks there is a difference in the potential quality of a person because of their skin tone. Dumb thinks science is for "know it all" types. Dumb thinks a lot of things, but rarely does it think about what will fuck it in the end, only what scares it to its face.  There is no tomorrow for dumb, only its feelings right now. 

 

                                                                                                                                 - a shitty poem by Vic.20

 

[SuperSpreader]

3 hours ago, Mr.Vic20 said:

Who cares when his base is comfortably dumb? We have underestimated the power of dumb. Dumb let's their children die for Jesus. Dumb secretly feels that easy power is "better" than then responsible power. Dumb thinks there is a difference in the potential quality of a person because of their skin tone. Dumb thinks science is for "know it all" types. Dumb thinks a lot of things, but rarely does it think about what will fuck it in the end, only what scares it to its face.  There is no tomorrow for dumb, only its feelings right now. 

 

                                                                                                                                 - a shitty poem by Vic.20

 

 

                                                                                                

 

Dumb people have way more options you'd never consider. 

[Spork3245]

14 hours ago, CitizenVectron said:

He claims they will be $3500 cheaper...where does he get that number from? The cost of R&D spread over millions of vehicles? Isn't much of the R&D already done for the medium-term?

Probably getting that number from “gas guzzler” taxes likely being relaxed with this. 

[cusideabelincoln]

Couldn't we save more than $3500 If we bought directly from the manufacturer and eliminate the need for dealership markups.  Then everyone gets dealer discounts!

[CitizenVectron]

32 minutes ago, cusideabelincoln said:

Couldn't we save more than $3500 If we bought directly from the manufacturer and eliminate the need for dealership markups.  Then everyone gets dealer discounts!

 

But no one would choose the platinum guard undercoating! Think of the madness!

[Spork3245]

12 hours ago, cusideabelincoln said:

Couldn't we save more than $3500 If we bought directly from the manufacturer and eliminate the need for dealership markups.  Then everyone gets dealer discounts!

You’d be waiting 6-months for a car and never be able to get a used car.  

[Keyser_Soze]

1 hour ago, Spork3245 said:

You’d be waiting 6-months for a car and never be able to get a used car.  

 

But this mandate is for new cars so...

[Spork3245]

21 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

But this mandate is for new cars so...

I wasn’t responding to the mandate, read what I quoted so...  

[Keyser_Soze]

1 hour ago, Spork3245 said:

I wasn’t responding to the mandate, read what I quoted so...  

 

He (Trump) claims we could save more than $3500 (thanks to that mandate (for new cars))

Couldn't we save that money on (new cars) if we bought them from manufacturers

 

I think I'm following just fine.

 

Mainly the used car thing threw me off.

[Bloodporne]

On 3/31/2020 at 4:23 PM, CitizenVectron said:

He claims they will be $3500 cheaper...where does he get that number from? The cost of R&D spread over millions of vehicles? Isn't much of the R&D already done for the medium-term?

I feel guilty that I exclusively thought "MGSV is totally awesome!" when I read R&D.

[Spork3245]

39 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

He (Trump) claims we could save more than $3500 (thanks to that mandate (for new cars))

Couldn't we save that money on (new cars) if we bought them from manufacturers

 

I think I'm following just fine.

 

Mainly the used car thing threw me off.

 

Yea, I was responding to the idea of getting rid of dealerships being beneficial  (and, FWIW, I hate going to the dealership) 

[Keyser_Soze]

6 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

 

Yea, I was responding to the idea of getting rid of dealerships being beneficial  (and, FWIW, I hate going to the dealership) 

 

But do you hate going to the car factory?

[Spork3245]

2 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

But do you hate going to the car factory?

Yes, it’s an 8.5 hour drive each way

[TwinIon]

Well, they haven't overturned CA's ability to set their own standards (which other states also adopt), and the EU isn't lowering their standards. Also, there's a good chance Trump isn't President by the time the courts settle this, so I don't imagine a bunch of car companies are going to kill off their fuel efficiency efforts based on this. 

 

Still, I do wonder if the combination of the pandemic economic slowdown and super cheap gas will delay the mass adoption of electric vehicles in the short term. We were just getting to the point where every major car maker was going to release pretty good electric cars. It's plausible to me that the electric adoption ends up happening much slower because of current events.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

Electric cars won't save us. Only reducing VMT through transit, biking, and walking will get us where we need to be.

[AbsolutSurgen]

On 3/31/2020 at 4:23 PM, CitizenVectron said:

He claims they will be $3500 cheaper...where does he get that number from? The cost of R&D spread over millions of vehicles? Isn't much of the R&D already done for the medium-term?

I am guessing it is the increased material cost incurred by the manufacturers.

2 hours ago, Spork3245 said:

 

Yea, I was responding to the idea of getting rid of dealerships being beneficial  (and, FWIW, I hate going to the dealership) 

The requirement for vehicles to be sold through dealerships is primarily due to state franchise laws.  As long as dealerships continue to donate as much money as they do to the campaigns of state representatives, that is unlikely to change.

[marioandsonic]

1 hour ago, TwinIon said:

Well, they haven't overturned CA's ability to set their own standards (which other states also adopt), and the EU isn't lowering their standards. Also, there's a good chance Trump isn't President by the time the courts settle this, so I don't imagine a bunch of car companies are going to kill off their fuel efficiency efforts based on this. 

 

Still, I do wonder if the combination of the pandemic economic slowdown and super cheap gas will delay the mass adoption of electric vehicles in the short term. We were just getting to the point where every major car maker was going to release pretty good electric cars. It's plausible to me that the electric adoption ends up happening much slower because of current events.

OLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

In all seriousness, I would prefer an electric car to my current home right now.  Mainly because I haven't gotten gas in over a month, and I'm worried that it will start to go bad...

[PaladinSolo]

1 hour ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Electric cars won't save us. Only reducing VMT through transit, biking, and walking will get us where we need to be.

I mean they absolutely would if we continued to shut coal/oil/natural gas plants down in favor of wind/sola/water/nuclear, even if you didn't and added more natural gas plants to deal with the extra demand you'd sill see a big decrease because of the efficiency of a massive power plant over millions of small gas engines.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

10 minutes ago, PaladinSolo said:

I mean they absolutely would if we continued to shut coal/oil/natural gas plants down in favor of wind/sola/water/nuclear, even if you didn't and added more natural gas plants to deal with the extra demand you'd sill see a big decrease because of the efficiency of a massive power plant over millions of small gas engines.

Not enough lithium for worldwide adoption

[Anathema-]

Electric cars will help once we stop burning fossil fuels to make that electricity.

[Anathema-]

Just now, Anathema- said:

Electric cars will help once we stop burning fossil fuels to make that electricity.

 

Oh sorry didn't realize I was missing thread updates.

[CitizenVectron]

Just now, Anathema- said:

Electric cars will help once we stop burning fossil fuels to make that electricity.

 

Even if the entire world converted to coal plants, electric cars are still more carbon-efficient (including manufacturing).

[PaladinSolo]

23 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Not enough lithium for worldwide adoption

You're assuming they all have to be lithium, lithium is just the cheapest and easiest long time use battery currently, there are other materials that can be used and will be used when lithium is no longer financially viable.  This is going to be a decades long process.

[Jason]

1 hour ago, Anathema- said:

Electric cars will help once we stop burning fossil fuels to make that electricity.

 

They help now because even a coal plant is more efficient than the internal combustion engine in a car, IIRC 25% vs 12.5%. But what you're burning to power the car is far from the only problem with cars.

[cusideabelincoln]

10 hours ago, Spork3245 said:

You’d be waiting 6-months for a car and never be able to get a used car.  

 

I could probably wait the 6 months, because that should also mean you will get the car you want with exactly the options you want.  I imagine going to a website, taking a virtual tour of the car, picking what options you want, picking the color, and getting this without absurd markup prices.  Hunting for the right car, and then hunting for the right options for that car, just sucks for me. 

[Spork3245]

33 minutes ago, cusideabelincoln said:

 

I could probably wait the 6 months, because that should also mean you will get the car you want with exactly the options you want.  I imagine going to a website, taking a virtual tour of the car, picking what options you want, picking the color, and getting this without absurd markup prices.  Hunting for the right car, and then hunting for the right options for that car, just sucks for me. 

Not everyone can wait that long for a car. People like to test drive before they buy (I would personally never buy a car without test driving it first unless it’s some super rare nonsense car like a Ford GT). I already order my cars from the factory with the options and color I want and have always negotiated down to or below the dealership’s invoice. Dealerships don’t make all that much on the actual cars.

[Remarkableriots]

5 hours ago, TwinIon said:

Well, they haven't overturned CA's ability to set their own standards (which other states also adopt), and the EU isn't lowering their standards. Also, there's a good chance Trump isn't President by the time the courts settle this, so I don't imagine a bunch of car companies are going to kill off their fuel efficiency efforts based on this. 

 

Still, I do wonder if the combination of the pandemic economic slowdown and super cheap gas will delay the mass adoption of electric vehicles in the short term. We were just getting to the point where every major car maker was going to release pretty good electric cars. It's plausible to me that the electric adoption ends up happening much slower because of current events.

Going all electric will be nice when most of our energy production is clean energy. Atm though it pollutes just as bad as regular cars if not more so. They have to figure out better energy storage or recyclable batteries because the current batteries are an environmental hazard.