Kobe Bryant and Eight Others Dead In Helicopter Crash

[number305]

10 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Harrison Ford crashed a plane in Santa Monica awhile back and walked away from it. He was lucky as hell.

I think this is the main difference in safety.  I know several pilots - and two of them have had multiple emergency landings that could be called crashes.  With a plane even if the engine dies completely you can steer and land.

 

 

[Paperclyp]

9 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Violently raping one woman is no big deal  

 

1. Do you know know what he was accused of, or the evidence of the crime? Read the daily beast article I linked just above. He left bruises and lacerations on the woman. Yes, it was a violent rape.

 

2. You said it was a lapse in judgement. Those are your words. This isn’t nitpicking semantics, it’s actually at the heart of why people are reacting negatively to what I wrote. You guys don’t think it’s a big deal because there are dudes who have raped many more women. One rape is enough to make you a rapist.

 

And if there is one thing that should be obvious in my years of posting here, I don’t have any problem having a minority point of view around these parts  
 

You are being obtuse. 

 

You couldn't wait for the day that we'd celebrate Bill Cosby at his death. You are lumping everyone into this idea that there is no nuance, rape is OK, no big deal, and it just shows to me that you're not actually wanting to have a discussion. 

 

It literally went: 

 

You: I look forward to the day when Cosby dies and we just talk about our favorite episodes of the Cosby show. Mine is the one where he eats dinner too late and has a crazy dream.

 

Others: Bill Cosby is not the same as Kobe. 

 

You: Rape is OK!

 

You want to have a discussion about sexual assault, fine. I never said it should be left out of the man's legacy and said several times it should not be washed away. You do not actually seem to be interested in doing that, and have instead moved from "he was probably a rapist" (minutes after his death) to "he was clearly a violent rapist." 

 

I just don't think you are to be taken seriously. I think you are performing theatrics. 

[Scott]

14 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Violently raping one woman is no big deal  

 

1. Do you know know what he was accused of, or the evidence of the crime? Read the daily beast article I linked just above. He left bruises and lacerations on the woman. Yes, it was a violent rape.

 

2. You said it was a lapse in judgement. Those are your words. This isn’t nitpicking semantics, it’s actually at the heart of why people are reacting negatively to what I wrote. You guys don’t think it’s a big deal because there are dudes who have raped many more women. One rape is enough to make you a rapist.

 

And if there is one thing that should be obvious in my years of posting here, I don’t have any problem having a minority point of view around these parts  
 

I know what he was accused of. He also wasn’t convicted of anything. I am not saying he’s not guilty, but I also am not going to present myself as omniscient on this issue. I’m not in a position to listen to my gut and start making proclamations about someone’s guilt or innocence. 
 

A rape, among countless other descriptors, is a lapse of judgement. It can be many things at once. It can be a lapse of judgement and a FUCKING HORRIBLE NIGHTMARE TRAGEDY. One description doesn’t preclude the other. And I certainly do not think it’s okay to excuse one rape because some other celebrity committed many rapes. But when you look at Kobe specifically, the bulk of his life was defined by his positive impact on others. That’s what most people are responding to emotionally when they hear that he died. Thomas Jefferson kept slaves but that isn’t his primary legacy. Obama killed civilians with drones but that isn’t his primary legacy. Etc

[Paperclyp]

33 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

I can see both sides of the argument on this one, and it's made me think of someone else:

 

Mike Tyson.

 

Here's a guy who served a prison sentence for rape and was involved in seedy shit and feared for his life because of the really horrible people with whom he associated. He converted to Islam, but he was still chin-deep in horrible shit when he got out of prison and went back into boxing.

 

Down the line, he cleaned up his act, he publicly apologized to Evander Holyfield while sitting next to him after admitting that he was not sincere when he apologized in the 90s, and he's been on late night and doing social media things and staying out of trouble. He also endorsed Trump (you fucker).

 

He's a guy who did terrible things, but isn't doing them currently. Do we forgive someone for rape after he served his time and regrets what he did? I find myself crossed on this whole thing because I feel many women aren't believed when bringing forward sexual assault/rape accusations, but I also feel our justice system does a disservice to many people who need to be rehabilitated and that, while not everyone can be made good and kept out of the justice system, plenty can and we're failing them. And I also feel once the time has been served, punishing them for life is counter-intuitive. My gut says that he did his time and that should be the punishment, and whether someone wants to associate with him or not is a different matter than if justice was served. But gee zuz, rape is atrocious.

 

It's not 1:1. Kobe isn't someone who was tried for this and found not guilty or guilty. I know all of that. But all this talk ITT has made me think of Iron Mike.

 

I guess the question would then be, if Kobe was tried and found guilty and served his time, would someone's opinion differ of him? If he was tried and found not guilty, would that mean anything?

These are all legitimate points. I think a lot of this comes down to big life questions. 

 

Do you think a person can change? 

 

Do you think people who do terrible things deserve forgiveness? 

 

It's also easy to forget in the heat of the moment that even if you are generally aquainted with people online, their context of the situation can be extremely unique to your own. Kobe was a big part of my life. He was, frankly, an enemy to me until his last couple years of his career when he became empathetic to me coming back from injuries. I believe his remorse for the situation in Colorado. It's not up to me to forgive him or not, I guess, for that. I honestly do not know what happened. I do not want to bring up the issues the girl had and drag her around just to discuss on a message board, it's not worth it. But I have respect for Kobe as a basketball player, I appreciated his change of heart with how he used homophobic slurs and really tried to make it right, and I think he had done and was going to do some incredible things for women's basketball. I also enjoyed seeing him in public with his daughter, who he seemed to have a really good relationship with. He seemed to be in a really good place in his life. 

 

To many, he was just a basketball player that they happened to know his name. Or he was clearly a rapist. And if you truly believe that, his death is appropriate to discuss that issue. I just happen to believe if you're truly interested in doing that, stick with what we know, give it some depth and thought, and maybe don't rush to it in this era when we can know he is dead mere minutes after the fact and a lot of people are truly hurting. 

 

Tyson is more of a tragic figure, even in life. He has mental illness and I'm sure he's fighting demons to this day. It always made me uncomfortable how Hollywood seemed to embrace him. I will not shed a tear when Mike Tyson dies. 

[Chadatog]

I think one thing we can all agree on in solidarity is that this was clearly planned by Trump to get attention off of the impeachment trial.

[Alpha1Cowboy]

When Chris Cline fell out of the sky with his kid I was not saddened one bit...same here. Wealthy people..who have so many options available to be environmentally friendly..chose one of the most polluting modes of travel for unimportant events...especially in a state that is struggling with pollution problems.

 

And when the environmental shit starts hitting the fan....the wealthy are gonna suffer the least from it. 

 

I dragged Trump for pulling out of the Paris Climate Accords.......I'll drag the rest of them too...even if they are beloved icons...because at the end of the day...they really don't care about the rest of us. And that's cool...feelings mutual.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Scott said:

A rape, among countless other descriptors, is a lapse of judgement.

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of sexual violence. I hope you’ll reconsider this view and I’ll just leave it at that. 

[Joe]

You can both grieve for the loss of a basketball legend and also understand and recognize that he probably did something heinous earlier in his career.

[Scott]

13 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of sexual violence. I hope you’ll reconsider this view and I’ll just leave it at that. 

You seem to be implying that by referring to a rape as a lapse of judgement I’m somehow downplaying the seriousness of rape. I’m not. You’re mistaken in that assessment. Also, let’s stop casually affirming that what happened with Kobe was so obviously and demonstrably a rape. That’s one of the key elements of this discussion. We aren’t privy to all of the facts. If you’d like to make your own determination about that case based on your emotions, then go for it. But I recognize my ignorance on the case and therefore will withhold judgement. 
 

Bottom line here is that tact is a thing, even if you want to pretend it’s not. There’s a time and a place to bring up someone’s rape allegation, and 4 minutes after his body was incinerated may not be the time. Especially when his legacy is not overwhelmingly that of a rapist, but is instead one of a hugely positive role model. It’s a shame that instead of celebrating Kobe’s positive cultural legacy we instead had to spend 2+ pages going back and forth about this. 

[Joe]

One last thing and I'll try not to say anything else because I feel like this thread has devolved into a pointless argument:

 

I do find it interesting post-MeToo where we were told to believe all women that many people in this thread are suggesting that maybe he didn't actually rape that woman despite the fact that there is actual evidence in this case.

[CitizenVectron]

2 hours ago, Alpha1Cowboy said:

When Chris Cline fell out of the sky with his kid I was not saddened one bit...same here. Wealthy people..who have so many options available to be environmentally friendly..chose one of the most polluting modes of travel for unimportant events...especially in a state that is struggling with pollution problems.

 

And when the environmental shit starts hitting the fan....the wealthy are gonna suffer the least from it. 

 

I dragged Trump for pulling out of the Paris Climate Accords.......I'll drag the rest of them too...even if they are beloved icons...because at the end of the day...they really don't care about the rest of us. And that's cool...feelings mutual.

 

Yes these 3 teenagers' deaths are totally worth saving some carbon-emission decisions made by their parents, thanks for your opinion. 

[Mercury33]

I don’t wanna jump in on either side of this debate. But just out of curiosity.

 

How many people here know a woman that was raped? Not “know of a woman” but someone who is close to you. 

[Paperclyp]

Just now, Jose said:

One last thing and I'll try not to say anything else because I feel like this thread has devolved into a pointless argument:

 

I do find it interesting post-MeToo where we were told to believe all women that many people in this thread are suggesting that maybe he didn't actually rape that woman despite the fact that there is actual evidence in this case.

Who is asserting he didn’t rape her? We have a guy saying he absolutely did, and we have people saying we don’t know for sure what happened, but it certainly was a bad thing that Kobe did. 

[LazyPiranha]

The problem to me with the whole Kobe issue is that it echoes to me the same fundamental problem with it never being the time or place to discuss gun violence out of some sort of respect.  

 

My mindset on the issue is simple.  The fact that he just died is meaningless to this discussion.  No one here is gatecrashing the man's funeral and grabbing the mic from the eulogy to read out the indictment.  His family aren't on this board reading these posts.  We are protecting no one and nothing by dropping our monocles at the mention of his probable rape, the only thing we're doing is further removing the topic from any point of discussion.  His sudden death doesn't suddenly change the past or remove any of his previous problems from the conversation.

 

Besides, this drags up the same argument we've had on here before about the burdens of proof for the court of public opinion. No one here is a juror deciding guilt or innocence, so one goes to jail based on how we feel about the details of the case.  Countless people are guilty as hell and will never be indicted let alone convicted, and many innocent people sit behind bars.  If you don't use guilty beyond a reasonable doubt to assess every single claim against every single person, then demanding that this is the standard all rape accusations must go through to pass a personal opinion is just asinine.  Every single one of us here is utterly convinced that someone did some seriously bad shit based on hearsay and conjecture, and to pretend otherwise is a lie.

 

Finally, in regards to the Kobe and Tyson situation, I do not believe that people are beyond redemption.  I do however believe that redemption begins with actually admitting you did something wrong.  Kobe and Tyson to the best of my knowledge has always completely and utterly denied doing anything wrong.  Who gives a shit that Tyson apologized to Holyfield, he didn't go to jail for raping him.  It's certainly better that Tyson seemingly turned his life around and has dedicated himself to becoming a better, calmer, person as opposed to continuing the same path, but as long as he's still claiming he never touched the woman he hasn't really redeemed much of anything.

[Scott]

2 minutes ago, Jose said:

One last thing and I'll try not to say anything else because I feel like this thread has devolved into a pointless argument:

 

I do find it interesting post-MeToo where we were told to believe all women that many people in this thread are suggesting that maybe he didn't actually rape that woman despite the fact that there is actual evidence in this case.

There’s a big difference between saying, “I don’t believe the woman. That man is innocent” and saying “I don’t have enough facts to fairly make a decision.”

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

9 minutes ago, Mercury33 said:

How many people here know a woman that was raped? Not “know of a woman” but someone who is close to you. 

Me, and she lives across the living room from me.

 

And it happened to her twice.  

 

I've largely stayed silent in this thread because this is simply an event that I am somewhat indifferent to, but my sentiment is probably close to that of @sblfilms

[Joe]

Just now, Paperclyp said:

Who is asserting he didn’t rape her? We have a guy saying he absolutely did, and we have people saying we don’t know for sure what happened, but it certainly was a bad thing that Kobe did. 

 

I never said anyone was asserting he didn't rape her. But to say "I don't know" is ridiculous.

[Dodger]

This isn't that difficult. Someone was going to be that guy. SBL just chose to be that guy. His post was 4th post in this thread. Kobe was a father of 4 and one of his children died with him. Now we didn't know that right away, but that's why you wait a day or two to make the asshole post. Wait a day or two and then you can come in and say hey can we talk about the rape allegations without looking like an asshole, instead of on the 4th fucking post when the guy had literally been dead less than an hour. 

 

I watched a lot of the breaking news coverage, and there were multiple grown men choking back tears talking about his death. You don't get that if you are a terrible person. I watched the coverage for about two hours, including some on Fox News just because they were the first to have breaking news coverage of it, and I didn't hear one mention of the rape accusations. So it wasn't like breaking news basketball star and alleged rapist dead in a helicopter crash. , at least not what I saw on Fox and CNN. 

 

But hey other people mentioned it so sbl is in the clear. He also doesn't care his team cheated and has a tainted title because he read on twitter other teams were cheating too. For his sake I hope he doesn't know anybody that will jump off a bridge this week, or he'll go and do it too. 

[SuperSpreader]

[Joe]

5 minutes ago, Mercury33 said:

I don’t wanna jump in on either side of this debate. But just out of curiosity.

 

How many people here know a woman that was raped? Not “know of a woman” but someone who is close to you. 

 

We probably all do. Many just don't know it, sadly.

[Kal-El814]

1 minute ago, Dodger said:

I watched a lot of the breaking news coverage, and there were multiple grown men choking back tears talking about his death. You don't get that if you are a terrible person.

You absolutely do, this is a weird statement.

[Scott]

4 minutes ago, LazyPiranha said:

My mindset on the issue is simple.  The fact that he just died is meaningless to this discussion.  No one here is gatecrashing the man's funeral and grabbing the mic from the eulogy to read out the indictment.  His family aren't on this board reading these posts.  We are protecting no one and nothing by dropping our monocles at the mention of his probable rape, the only thing we're doing is further removing the topic from any point of discussion.  His sudden death doesn't suddenly change the past or remove any of his previous problems from the conversation.

You don’t give a shit about him. That’s clear, and that’s fine. But to many people he was a very important, influential part of their lives. His death affected them. I’m sure plenty of people have friends or parents who did something heinous in their lives; but upon hearing of their death, they’ll probably recall the positive impact they had rather than that heinous act. I don’t think we’re doing a disservice to victims to let those who loved a mostly great person to have a few minutes to grieve and process the death before we run in and pour salt on their wounds. 

[Joe]

We have more than one person in this thread acting happy Kobe died, but the post saying he was a "complicated figure" was what turned this into a 5 page thread. People are strange.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

In the immediate aftermath of death, I consider there to be a moral difference between recounting the totality for good and ill of the life of someone who is a "nobody" except to their family and friends, and the life of someone who is wealthy, powerful, and influential.

[Dodger]

4 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

You absolutely do, this is a weird statement.

 

 

The point is is that the immediate reaction to his death wasn't wow that complicated figure and alleged rapist died, at least not with the general media. And again, the coverage that I saw, it wasn't even mentioned. So it's not like the immediate coverage was all alleged rapist dead in crash. It wasn't even mentioned. 

[Dodger]

2 minutes ago, Jose said:

We have more than one person in this thread acting happy Kobe died, but the post saying he was a "complicated figure" was what turned this into a 5 page thread. People are strange.

 

 

Multiple people reacted that and called him out for saying that outrageous shit. 

[Kal-El814]

8 minutes ago, Scott said:

You don’t give a shit about him. That’s clear, and that’s fine. But to many people he was a very important, influential part of their lives. His death affected them. I’m sure plenty of people have friends or parents who did something heinous in their lives; but upon hearing of their death, they’ll probably recall the positive impact they had rather than that heinous act. I don’t think we’re doing a disservice to victims to let those who loved a mostly great person to have a few minutes to grieve and process the death before we run in and pour salt on their wounds. 

Again, nobody here is saying this shit anywhere near Kobe nor his family. I appreciate that he’s a beloved player and celebrity and that this makes him an important figure to many of his fans.

 

None of that makes commentary about the “complicated” parts of his legacy out of bounds. Let’s stop the pearl clutching about giving a moment to “mostly great” person because referring to him in those terms is such a basic and reductive way to talk about anyone. Nobody here is doing a disservice to Kobe and to pretend otherwise is a stretch.

 

3 minutes ago, Dodger said:

The point is is that the immediate reaction to his death wasn't wow that complicated figure and alleged rapist died, at least not with the general media. And again, the coverage that I saw, it wasn't even mentioned. So it's not like the immediate coverage was all alleged rapist dead in crash. It wasn't even mentioned. 

Then make that point instead of saying that nobody weeps for the terrible because that happens all the time.

[Bloodporne]

40 minutes ago, Alpha1Cowboy said:

When Chris Cline fell out of the sky with his kid I was not saddened one bit...same here. Wealthy people..who have so many options available to be environmentally friendly..chose one of the most polluting modes of travel for unimportant events...especially in a state that is struggling with pollution problems.

 

And when the environmental shit starts hitting the fan....the wealthy are gonna suffer the least from it. 

 

I dragged Trump for pulling out of the Paris Climate Accords.......I'll drag the rest of them too...even if they are beloved icons...because at the end of the day...they really don't care about the rest of us. And that's cool...feelings mutual.

 

You're insane and this is coming from a guy with a Patrick Bateman avatar. 

[LazyPiranha]

1 minute ago, Scott said:

You don’t give a shit about him. That’s clear, and that’s fine. But to many people he was a very important, influential part of their lives. His death affected them. I’m sure plenty of people have friends or parents who did something heinous in their lives; but upon hearing of their death, they’ll probably recall the positive impact they had rather than that heinous act. I don’t think we’re doing a disservice to victims to let those who loved a mostly great person to have a few minutes to grieve and process the death before we run in and pour salt on their wounds. 

 

And how does the discussion of his probable rape stop any of that?  Am I in your house slapping you and saying "Kobe Bryant was probably a rapist" every single time to have a fond memory of the man?  Besides, what entitles anyone to a flawless memory?  Maybe instead of being upset about the fact other people are bringing up the awful shit he likely did while alive, you should instead be upset about the fact that someone who meant so much to so many people may have done something that awful.  

 

Like I said before, no one gains anything by sweeping it into the man's casket and burying it away with him.  The only thing that serves to do is make the discussion of such crimes more and more taboo and less likely to be reported.  If the price to pay for that not happening is that some people who are grieving have to deal with the realities of the person they mourn, then so be it.  At some point all of us will grieve a truly problematic person we admired or even knew personally.  Ignoring the parts we aren't comfortable with accomplishes nothing.

[Scott]

2 minutes ago, LazyPiranha said:

 

Ignoring the parts we aren't comfortable with accomplishes nothing.

I feel like this conversation has served no purpose. No one is suggesting we ignore the crimes and misdeeds of others. 
 

And you don’t have to be in my house slapping me in the face for it to have an impact. I view humans as complex puzzles - people do good and bad things. In my opinion, it’s not inappropriate to give those who loved someone a moment to process their grief before immediately mentioning the single worst thing the deceased did while they were alive. I guess we’re splitting hairs over what is tactful in polite, respectful society.  You can bring up someone’s worst qualities 4 minutes after their violent death. You have that right. And the conversation is worth having at some point. But stay the fuck away from me. 

[Alpha1Cowboy]

15 minutes ago, Jose said:

We have more than one person in this thread acting happy Kobe died, but the post saying he was a "complicated figure" was what turned this into a 5 page thread. People are strange.

I'd say I'm indifferent that a cake eater choked on his cake.   

 

I'd have felt the same way if they would have gone down 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/18/politics/ivanka-jared-helicopter/index.html

[Dodger]

10 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

Again, nobody here is saying this shit anywhere near Kobe nor his family. I appreciate that he’s a beloved player and celebrity and that this makes him an important figure to many of his fans.

 

None of that makes commentary about the “complicated” parts of his legacy out of bounds. Let’s stop the pearl clutching about giving a moment to “mostly great” person because referring to him in those terms is such a basic and reductive way to talk about anyone. Nobody here is doing a disservice to Kobe and to pretend otherwise is a stretch.

 

Then make that point instead of saying that nobody weeps for the terrible because that happens all the time.

 

 

Kobe Bryant did a terrible thing, but by all accounts as a whole was a great person that left a tremendous positive legacy behind. It's fine if you want to have the discussion if he "made up" for what he did through all his other actions or not, but the immediate reaction by the people who actually knew him wasn't to think of the rape, it was to think of everything else he has done. 

[Alpha1Cowboy]

2 minutes ago, Dodger said:

 

 

Kobe Bryant did a terrible thing, but by all accounts as a whole was a great person that left a tremendous positive legacy behind. It's fine if you want to have the discussion if he "made up" for what he did through all his other actions or not, but the immediate reaction by the people who actually knew him wasn't to think of the rape, it was to think of everything else he has done. 

 

 

At the end of the day he played a sport really well.   That's about it.

 

But we have a Football Player Rapist culture so....it fits.  We worship celebrity....for better or worse..that's us.

[Scott]

12 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

None of that makes commentary about the “complicated” parts of his legacy out of bounds. Let’s stop the pearl clutching about giving a moment to “mostly great” person because referring to him in those terms is such a basic and reductive way to talk about anyone. Nobody here is doing a disservice to Kobe and to pretend otherwise is a stretch.

My intention is not to be basic or reductive. We can only know these public figures to a limited degree. And Kobe’s legacy is mostly one of positivity. Screaming about his rape allegation seems to me like those people who scream about MLKJr plagiarizing his college essays or whatever. Yeah, he probably did some bad shit, and we can talk about that, but do we need to scream about it on MLK day, when most of the world is trying to reflect on all the good he did for the world?

[skillzdadirecta]

2 minutes ago, Mercury33 said:

I don’t wanna jump in on either side of this debate. But just out of curiosity.

 

How many people here know a woman that was raped? Not “know of a woman” but someone who is close to you. 

Pretty sure most of us do whether we realize it or not.  I've known several in my lifetime who were sexually assaulted and my friends wife runs the rape crisis center at a major hospital and regularly testifies in rape cases as an expert witness in court cases. I also know several women AND men who were molested as children and I myself served as an alternate juror in a rape case a couple of years ago (that fucker was guilty as shit and ended up pleading once the prosecution made its case). I PERSONALLY know of a popular actor who is on TV RIGHT NOW who has been accused of multiple sexual assaults but has so far managed to escape any real damage to his career. Maybe it's because of the shade of most his accusers?  On the flip side, I know people who were PROVEN to be falsely accused of rape too. One was accused because his accuser didn't want to admit to her boyfriend that she cheated on him, another was because the girl got pregnant and when she had to tell her religious parents what happened, the first thing that flew out of her mouth was "I was raped."  In both cases the accusers recanted the stories before anything went too far. In the FIRST case it was the cops who were investigating the story who figured it out and exonerated the dude who was TERRIFIED and was also, very young at the time. 

 

Rape cases almost always boil down to "he said, she said" at the end of the day and often the only evidence is "These two had sex" unless there's other circumstances like a stranger rape or drugs like in Cosby's case. That doesn't mean that cases that don't involve overt violence or drugs aren't valid or  aren't "real" rape, it just means the evidence in those cases isn't as cut and dried and some of the armchair sleuths here are trying to present.While I believe that every allegation of sexual assault should be taken seriously and investigated and that potential victims should be treated with care and sensitivity, given this country's track record with criminal justice particularly with cases of men from certain backgrounds being killed and lynched by vigilante mobs at the mere accusation of LOOKING at certain women the wrong way, forgive me if I at least try to keep an open mind and deal with each accusation on their merits rather than blanketly assume that EVERY man accused of rape is guilty. There was "evidence" in the central park five case too and look how THAT turned out.

 

Anyway, this thread has turned EXACTLY into what I hoped it wouldn't and I regret my part in it. If anyone feels like locking it and starting another one feel free. I'm sorry for the losses of everyone involved in the crash yesterday. It was a tragic event and while this rape conversation is a good one to have and was probably inevitable, the way it was entered into was what rubbed me the wrong way. The body wasn't even COLD yet and folks were already throwing zingers trying to outdo each other with the clever quips and gallows humor before folks even had a chance to process what the fuck happened and even get an accurate body count and figure out WHO exactly died. There's a time a place for everything and personally, I didn't think minutes after someone died was the time or place especially when the only purpose of starting the conversation is a lame attempt at humor or to further prove one's moral superiority to everyone else. Just my two cents.. . Carry on. Oh and BTW respond to this post if you like, I won't be responding back about anything regarding Kobe's rape case.

 

@SFLUFAN thanks for the clarification about the helicopter stuff, I was just talking to a friend of mine who flew into LAX yesterday shortly after the accident and she said it was VERY foggy yesterday morning. How common are these types of crashes with choppers or did Pilot just completely fuck up? Will the families of some type of case