Kobe Bryant and Eight Others Dead In Helicopter Crash

[Joe]

I dunno, I thought your comment was tame, and by no means dancing on his grave or anything.

[Bloodporne]

I'm not a sports guy by any means, don't know shit about basketball and even I just swallowed hard seeing that on the digital front page. He's a cultural icon and I know how much the guy meant to my friends heavy into basketball, sorry to all the fans here.

[Keyser_Soze]

46 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

When is the time and where is the place? 

 

 

In 3 days in your largest movie theater.

[skillzdadirecta]

2 hours ago, SilentWorld said:

 

I wonder what the statistics are on the dangers of helicopters vs small planes. It seems like, aside from drug overdoses, aviation deaths are the most common way for celebrities to meet an untimely death, and there's quite a few that died in a plane not in a helicopter. 

Harrison Ford crashed a plane in Santa Monica awhile back and walked away from it. He was lucky as hell.

[Paperclyp]

1 hour ago, sblfilms said:

When is the time and where is the place? 

Oh, plenty. His retirement. Any time over the past 10 or so years when it has kind of been pushed to the side and he has made a helluva public perception turn around. When he gets new shows or mini series in ESPN. A few weeks from now. I dunno, any of those times you wouldn’t get near the push back of... literally minutes after the man has passed away in horrific fashion with his teenage daughter and others. 
 

It’s not like an intellectual discussion. You’re not serving the wider community about like discussing rape and it really doesn’t seem like you’re earnestly trying to make some larger point about how bad people get their misdeeds washed away.

 

Kobe Bryant was certainly not a perfect human being. But the man appeared to show genuine growth throughout his life. He admitted to horrible mistakes in the past. Did he rape that girl? I don’t rightly know. But by and large he does not seem to have been a bad person in the grand scheme of things.  Opinions on that may vary, but that’s not really the point. 
 

I know we’re strangers on some level, but I also consider the people on these boards to be acquaintances at the very least, and it is disconcerting to see that shit drug into this. It’s not gun control where it’s like “when is the right time then?” In this case, yeah, it’s the wrong fucking time.    

[skillzdadirecta]

35 minutes ago, Paperclyp said:

Oh, plenty. His retirement. Any time over the past 10 or so years when it has kind of been pushed to the side and he has made a helluva public perception turn around. When he gets new shows or mini series in ESPN. A few weeks from now. I dunno, any of those times you wouldn’t get near the push back of... literally minutes after the man has passed away in horrific fashion with his teenage daughter and others. 
 

It’s not like an intellectual discussion. You’re not serving the wider community about like discussing rape and it really doesn’t seem like you’re earnestly trying to make some larger point about how bad people get their misdeeds washed away.

 

Kobe Bryant was certainly not a perfect human being. But the man appeared to show genuine growth throughout his life. He admitted to horrible mistakes in the past. Did he rape that girl? I don’t rightly know. But by and large he does not seem to have been a bad person in the grand scheme of things.  Opinions on that may vary, but that’s not really the point. 
 

I know we’re strangers on some level, but I also consider the people on these boards to be acquaintances at the very least, and it is disconcerting to see that shit drug into this. It’s not gun control where it’s like “when is the right time then?” In this case, yeah, it’s the wrong fucking time.    

I didn't want to give that thread of this conversation anymore life than it already has been given but, Well said 

[CastlevaniaNut18]

34 minutes ago, Paperclyp said:

Oh, plenty. His retirement. Any time over the past 10 or so years when it has kind of been pushed to the side and he has made a helluva public perception turn around. When he gets new shows or mini series in ESPN. A few weeks from now. I dunno, any of those times you wouldn’t get near the push back of... literally minutes after the man has passed away in horrific fashion with his teenage daughter and others. 
 

It’s not like an intellectual discussion. You’re not serving the wider community about like discussing rape and it really doesn’t seem like you’re earnestly trying to make some larger point about how bad people get their misdeeds washed away.

 

Kobe Bryant was certainly not a perfect human being. But the man appeared to show genuine growth throughout his life. He admitted to horrible mistakes in the past. Did he rape that girl? I don’t rightly know. But by and large he does not seem to have been a bad person in the grand scheme of things.  Opinions on that may vary, but that’s not really the point. 
 

I know we’re strangers on some level, but I also consider the people on these boards to be acquaintances at the very least, and it is disconcerting to see that shit drug into this. It’s not gun control where it’s like “when is the right time then?” In this case, yeah, it’s the wrong fucking time.    

I know we don’t always see eye to eye on issues, but damn, that was good. 

[Joe]

Honestly, you guys have made this into a way bigger issue than it had to be. 

[skillzdadirecta]

2 hours ago, SFLUFAN said:

This is the ATC visual tracking and audio communications.  N72EX is the callsign of the helicopter.

 

"VFR" means Visual Flight Rules which are in effect due to the poor visibility conditions.

 

 

 

So this is pilot error? How does a pilot fly into the side of a mountain going that fast?

[Guest]

Weird that actual news outlets from the NYT to ESPN have articles noting the complicated nature of the man as a public figure explicitly referencing the sexual assault charge since it’s not the time or place to discuss.

[Keyser_Soze]

50 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Weird that actual news outlets from the NYT to ESPN have articles noting the complicated nature of the man as a public figure explicitly referencing the sexual assault charge since it’s not the time or place to discuss.

The old “someone else did it so it must be right” argument.

[skillzdadirecta]

2 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

The old “someone else did it so it must be right” argument.

Which is ironic considering a couple of pages back he said he wasn't a Journalist so he shouldn't be held to journalistic standards... then he cites several Journalistic outfits to justify what he did. WTF? 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Which is ironic considering a couple of pages back he said he wasn't a Journalist so he shouldn't be held to journalistic standards... then he cites several Journalistic outfits to justify what he did. WTF? 

Do you actually not understand the points being made in those two posts? I’m happy to clarify, but I think you actually do.

[Keyser_Soze]

All I know is you dun goofed when @Dodger is the one calling you out  

[Guest]

Wrong place, wrong time, NYT

 

Wrong place, wrong time LA Times

 

Wrong place, wrong time NBC News

 

Wrong place, wrong time ESPN

 

Wrong place, wrong time ABC News

 

Wrong place, wrong time NPR

 

Wrong place, wrong time CNN

 

and so on, at literally any news website you can think of. The notion that the rape case should be off limits as society reflects on the legacy of that man is ill conceived, but I think this tweet really captures why it matters to actually talk about it:

 

(By the way, the reporter wasn’t suspended for linking the dailybeast article, she was suspended for screen capping her work email Inbox showing the deluge of death threats she received afterward, but she didn’t redact the names of the senders. So you guys are opinion bedfellows with Dodger and Twitter MRA folk )

[Keyser_Soze]

I looked at the ESPN article, words were chosen carefully there. Nothing that said, “Great guy and a rapist”

[Anathema-]

Je suis Paperclyp

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

6 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

 

So this is pilot error? How does a pilot fly into the side of a mountain going that fast?

This would appear to be primarily if not entirely pilot error caused by the fog conditions.

 

My understanding is that LA County had grounded its own helicopters at the time of the accident as they deemed the flying conditions as unsafe.

[Paperclyp]

4 hours ago, sblfilms said:

Wrong place, wrong time, NYT

 

Wrong place, wrong time LA Times

 

Wrong place, wrong time NBC News

 

Wrong place, wrong time ESPN

 

Wrong place, wrong time ABC News

 

Wrong place, wrong time NPR

 

Wrong place, wrong time CNN

 

and so on, at literally any news website you can think of. The notion that the rape case should be off limits as society reflects on the legacy of that man is ill conceived, but I think this tweet really captures why it matters to actually talk about it:

 

(By the way, the reporter wasn’t suspended for linking the dailybeast article, she was suspended for screen capping her work email Inbox showing the deluge of death threats she received afterward, but she didn’t redact the names of the senders. So you guys are opinion bedfellows with Dodger and Twitter MRA folk )

This’ll probably be the last thing I say on the matter. 
 

I think you are aware of the difference because you laid it out in one of your posts.
 

These are journalistic eulogies that you’ve linked us all to. They lay out facts, and yes in those types of pieces it would be arguably irresponsible to wash that part of his life away, even hours after his death. 

 

You called him probably a rapist. Lack of tact is an apt description there. So you’re right, you’re not a journalist and not held to that standard, which means when you do include that it means it’s not a journalistic obligation, it’s a very specific choice. I agree with @skillzdadirecta that had you laid out facts there rather than phrase it how you did, the reaction would not have been so extreme.
 

[Brian]

The sexual assault was mentioned on Get Up’s Kobe Memorial video this morning. @sblfilms

[AbsolutSurgen]

@sblfilms From USA Today this morning:

Opinion: Don't shy away from the complicated part of Kobe Bryant's legacy

Yahoo news:

Kobe Bryant leaves behind a legacy of intensity, greatness, controversy

Chicago Tribune

Kobe Bryant leaves behind one of sports’ most complicated legacies

Radio New Zealand

James Nokise: Kobe Bryant was flawed, but indisputably an icon

[MarSolo]

Geez, you’d think he was Harvey Weinstein, Jeffrey Epstein or Donald Trump with the way some of you are talking about him.

[johnny]

 

[Ghost_MH]

Dammit. There were three teens on that helicopter with their parents?

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, MarSolo said:

Geez, you’d think he was Harvey Weinstein, Jeffrey Epstein or Donald Trump with the way some of you are talking about him.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/kobe-bryants-disturbing-rape-case-the-dna-evidence-the-accusers-story-and-the-half-confession
 

Read the details of the criminal complaint that was made. Read the medical professional’s details of the injuries that were sustained. A horrific and violent rape. It’s one thing if you were to say you don’t believe it, but most here aren’t saying they don’t believe it. It’s just wrong to make note of the complicated nature of being both a legendary sports figure and a person credibly accused of a violent rape in the immediate aftermath of death.

 

Except when the entire system of media does it, because I guess they are forced to provide context to the man’s legacy against their will or whatever new twist @Paperclypwants to institute here.

 

I look forward to the day when Cosby dies and we just talk about our favorite episodes of the Cosby show. Mine is the one where he eats dinner too late and has a crazy dream.

[Paperclyp]

Do you think Bill Cosby and Kobe Bryant are the same?

[Ghost_MH]

17 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/kobe-bryants-disturbing-rape-case-the-dna-evidence-the-accusers-story-and-the-half-confession
 

Read the details of the criminal complaint that was made. Read the medical professional’s details of the injuries that were sustained. A horrific and violent rape. It’s one thing if you were to say you don’t believe it, but most here aren’t saying they don’t believe it. It’s just wrong to make note of the complicated nature of being both a legendary sports figure and a person credibly accused of a violent rape in the immediate aftermath of death.

 

Except when the entire system of media does it, because I guess they are forced to provide context to the man’s legacy against their will or whatever new twist @Paperclypwants to institute here.

 

I look forward to the day when Cosby dies and we just talk about our favorite episodes of the Cosby show. Mine is the one where he eats dinner too late and has a crazy dream.

 

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Cosby was a serial rapist with dozens of victims. That is absolutely his legacy. A better comparison would be Ben Roethlisberger, even if Ben here has multiple credible allegations against him.

[Keyser_Soze]

 

[SaysWho?]

4 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

 

And it says James on the Jersey, lol

[Scott]

16 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

I look forward to the day when Cosby dies and we just talk about our favorite episodes of the Cosby show. Mine is the one where he eats dinner too late and has a crazy dream.

Kobe and Cosby are very different people. We may never know exactly what happened with Kobe I’m Colorado, but even assuming the worst, it would be a terrible blip on what was otherwise a life that has served as inspiration and hope for literally millions of people. Kobe transcended basketball. He was seen as a driven, passionate, intelligent force for good. The work he did for communities, for charities, for people young and old is being felt right now as we see countless testimonies given from shaken, tearful individuals. None of this washes away a credible rape accusation. It doesn’t excuse it. But that incident was not what defined Kobe Bryant for most people. He moved beyond that moment and built a legacy of positivity and inspiration. It’s not wrong to mention the rape accusation, but it rubs salt in a fresh wound, especially when it’s mentioned literally minutes after he died. Cosby’s transgressions were big enough to transcend anything else he did in his career. That wasn’t the case with Kobe. Kobe likely did something terrible - but he lived the rest of his life in seeming defiance of that lapse of judgement. When most of us think of Kobe Bryant, we think of all the good he did. To immediately bring up the worst instance of his behavior makes an already shitty situation feel that much worse. 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Paperclyp said:

Do you think Bill Cosby and Kobe Bryant are the same?

No, Cosby is far more prolific in his criminality from what we know. Kobe still more likely than not violently raped a woman and it’s apparently bad to make note of that in front of the audience of literally a couple dozen people here in the wake of his untimely death. Because of tact. So sorry to hurt the delicate members of a board that has a long history of wishing death upon people and actively cheering the deaths of others.

 

3 minutes ago, Scott said:

Kobe likely did something terrible - but he lived the rest of his life in seeming defiance of that lapse of judgement.

A violent rape is simply a “lapse in judgement” in your view?

[Scott]

Just now, sblfilms said:

No, Cosby is far more prolific in his criminality from what we know. Kobe still more likely than not violently raped a woman and it’s apparently bad to make note of that in front of the audience of literally a couple dozen people here in the wake of his untimely death. Because of tact. So sorry to hurt the delicate members of a board that has a long history of wishing death upon people and actively cheering the deaths of others.

 

A violent rape is simply a “lapse in judgement” in your view?

1. Do we know definitively it was a “violent rape” or are you just being judge and jury because it fits your narrative?

2. Did I say it was “simply” a lapse of judgement, or are you just nitpicking semantics because you’ve been called out on this thread and are now reflexively digging your heels in?

[MarSolo]

44 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/kobe-bryants-disturbing-rape-case-the-dna-evidence-the-accusers-story-and-the-half-confession
 

Read the details of the criminal complaint that was made. Read the medical professional’s details of the injuries that were sustained. A horrific and violent rape. It’s one thing if you were to say you don’t believe it, but most here aren’t saying they don’t believe it. It’s just wrong to make note of the complicated nature of being both a legendary sports figure and a person credibly accused of a violent rape in the immediate aftermath of death.

 

Except when the entire system of media does it, because I guess they are forced to provide context to the man’s legacy against their will or whatever new twist @Paperclypwants to institute here.

 

I look forward to the day when Cosby dies and we just talk about our favorite episodes of the Cosby show. Mine is the one where he eats dinner too late and has a crazy dream.

Bill Cosby drugged and raped countless women and is currently in prison for that. To compare him to Kobe is insane.

[SaysWho?]

I can see both sides of the argument on this one, and it's made me think of someone else:

 

Mike Tyson.

 

Here's a guy who served a prison sentence for rape and was involved in seedy shit and feared for his life because of the really horrible people with whom he associated. He converted to Islam, but he was still chin-deep in horrible shit when he got out of prison and went back into boxing.

 

Down the line, he cleaned up his act, he publicly apologized to Evander Holyfield while sitting next to him after admitting that he was not sincere when he apologized in the 90s, and he's been on late night and doing social media things and staying out of trouble. He also endorsed Trump (you fucker).

 

He's a guy who did terrible things, but isn't doing them currently. Do we forgive someone for rape after he served his time and regrets what he did? I find myself crossed on this whole thing because I feel many women aren't believed when bringing forward sexual assault/rape accusations, but I also feel our justice system does a disservice to many people who need to be rehabilitated and that, while not everyone can be made good and kept out of the justice system, plenty can and we're failing them. And I also feel once the time has been served, punishing them for life is counter-intuitive. My gut says that he did his time and that should be the punishment, and whether someone wants to associate with him or not is a different matter than if justice was served. But gee zuz, rape is atrocious.

 

It's not 1:1. Kobe isn't someone who was tried for this and found not guilty or guilty. I know all of that. But all this talk ITT has made me think of Iron Mike.

 

I guess the question would then be, if Kobe was tried and found guilty and served his time, would someone's opinion differ of him? If he was tried and found not guilty, would that mean anything?

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, MarSolo said:

Bill Cosby drugged and raped countless women and is currently in prison for that. To compare him to Kobe is insane.

Violently raping one woman is no big deal  

 

12 minutes ago, Scott said:

1. Do we know definitively it was a “violent rape” or are you just being judge and jury because it fits your narrative?

2. Did I say it was “simply” a lapse of judgement, or are you just nitpicking semantics because you’ve been called out on this thread and are now reflexively digging your heels in?

1. Do you know know what he was accused of, or the evidence of the crime? Read the daily beast article I linked just above. He left bruises and lacerations on the woman. Yes, it was a violent rape.

 

2. You said it was a lapse in judgement. Those are your words. This isn’t nitpicking semantics, it’s actually at the heart of why people are reacting negatively to what I wrote. You guys don’t think it’s a big deal because there are dudes who have raped many more women. One rape is enough to make you a rapist.

 

And if there is one thing that should be obvious in my years of posting here, I don’t have any problem having a minority point of view around these parts