General Gaming Final Fantasy VII Remake OT - Big Trouble in Little Midgar

[Bacon]

1 minute ago, Paperclyp said:

Will you not go to a Harry Potter movie because it’s not the complete movie? 

I would have because of spoilers. If i wouldn't be spoiled then no.

[Paperclyp]

1 minute ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

Now I really think you’re trolling. 

Why? I’m legitimately asking. Why that ok??

[CastlevaniaNut18]

Just now, Paperclyp said:

Why? I’m legitimately asking. Why that ok??

In a world where 100+ hour massive open world games are released all the time, I’m calling bullshit that a remake of a 30 hour RPG from two decades ago needs to be released in multiple parts. Especially when they’ve been working on it for several years. 
 

This is typical of Square. They don’t know how to handle big games anymore. Let’s not be stupid here. 
 

maybe if movies were routinely 4-5 hours long you might have a point with your HP analogy. 

[Bacon]

1 minute ago, Paperclyp said:

Why? I’m legitimately asking. Why that ok??

Do you mean the last 2 movies that were one book split into two movies, or just the first movie in two parts. Either way, as someone who have only ever watched the movies and never read the books, to me, the story was never served whole in the first place. Same with the avengers. Like if there remade the first movie into two parts then lol hell no I wouldn't go see that. I mean, I didn't see the last two movie in theaters and only got around to finishing the series years later, but yeah. 

 

Also, I know you aren't talking to me about this at all, but I'm still gonna answer. 

[Paperclyp]

6 minutes ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

In a world where 100+ hour massive open world games are released all the time, I’m calling bullshit that a remake of a 30 hour RPG from two decades ago needs to be released in multiple parts. Especially when they’ve been working on it for several years. 
 

This is typical of Square. They don’t know how to handle big games anymore. Let’s not be stupid here. 
 

maybe if movies were routinely 4-5 hours long you might have a point with your HP analogy. 

I understand your skepticism of square, and I share it. 

 

But let’s separate square from this idea. Do you think it’s reasonable to take source material and turn it into a product that isn’t the full content of the original but still make it worth a full priced title? I think it is. 

 

If you don’t, I totally understand, but I don’t think it’s really fair to say people are stupid for being optimistic about this. If it comes out and it is just a paint by numbers remake with a new battle system and the same exact progression, I’ll certainly not buy it and feel it is exploitative. But I just wanna see what it actually is before I make that claim. 

 

As for the Harry Potter thing, it is just going back to the argument being put forward, I felt disingenuously, that if something isn’t “the full story,” then only a fool would waste their time and money on it at full price. That directly correlates with what Harry Potter did with its final film. 

 

I think this discussion has branched to a few slightly different arguments. 

[CastlevaniaNut18]

13 minutes ago, Paperclyp said:

I understand your skepticism of square, and I share it. 

 

But let’s separate square from this idea. Do you think it’s reasonable to take source material and turn it into a product that isn’t the full content of the original but still make it worth a full priced title? I think it is. 

 

If you don’t, I totally understand, but I don’t think it’s really fair to say people are stupid for being optimistic about this. If it comes out and it is just a paint by numbers remake with a new battle system and the same exact progression, I’ll certainly not buy it and feel it is exploitative. But I just wanna see what it actually is before I make that claim. 

 

As for the Harry Potter thing, it is just going back to the argument being put forward, I felt disingenuously, that if something isn’t “the full story,” then only a fool would waste their time and money on it at full price. That directly correlates with what Harry Potter did with its final film. 

 

I think this discussion has branched to a few slightly different arguments. 

No, I don’t think it’s fair to release a partial remake of an iconic game like this. I can’t separate Square because they’re the reason this is happening. 
 

Also, it’s a big difference between spending $7 at the theater for part one of a story, then spending $7 a year later for the conclusion and $60 for an incomplete remake with the rest coming...someday?
 

Enjoy the game if you want, I don’t think anyone is stupid for it and I never said that. 

[Paperclyp]

10 minutes ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

No, I don’t think it’s fair to release a partial remake of an iconic game like this. I can’t separate Square because they’re the reason this is happening. 
 

Also, it’s a big difference between spending $7 at the theater for part one of a story, then spending $7 a year later for the conclusion and $60 for an incomplete remake with the rest coming...someday?
 

Enjoy the game if you want, I don’t think anyone is stupid for it and I never said that. 

One last thing and I’ll respectfully duck out and ima bout ready to eat a bunch of food, but just to go to the HP thing, I wasn’t the first to bring up movies so I pulled that example - price wasn’t really the heart of the argument being put forward, it was the idea of an “incomplete” product. I think you got drug into it and don’t share all the same opinions of those who brought it up. 

 

Like, we learned that bacon doesn’t even really like TV shows, so we’re dealing with a variety of viewpoints that I don’t vibe with. 

[Bacon]

I mean, I like TV shows as long as each EP is its own story or if all the EPs come out at once. 

[Xbob42]

3 hours ago, legend said:

Oh boy, wait until you learn about TV shows!

1. You don't buy TV shows, at least not initially.

2. Netflix is superior because you get the entire season at once.

3. TV is designed to be milked eternally, and is why most shows suck ass after X amount of seasons.

4. If Square Enix made a TV show it would be over 1,200 episodes and 80% would be filler.

[legend]

27 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

1. You don't buy TV shows, at least not initially.

2. Netflix is superior because you get the entire season at once.

3. TV is designed to be milked eternally, and is why most shows suck ass after X amount of seasons.

4. If Square Enix made a TV show it would be over 1,200 episodes and 80% would be filler.

 

Plenty of people pay for TV either directly or by a subscription. How many people do you think subbed to HBO just for a season of GoT? 

 

Maybe you have an aversion to paying for things you'll enjoy just because they're "incomplete" but that  really isn't how it is for a shit ton of people, so I don't think highlighting that you'd be paying for an incomplete story is as persuasive as you can think it is. 

[Chairslinger]

1 hour ago, Mr.Vic20 said:

Pre-ordered and on the hype train! Toot-toot, and what not! 

 

 

 

 

I likely won't pre-order this, but it may be the first game since Shadow of the Collossus remake that I buy at launch.

[Xbob42]

30 minutes ago, legend said:

 

Plenty of people pay for TV either directly or by a subscription. How many people do you think subbed to HBO just for a season of GoT? 

 

Maybe you have an aversion to paying for things you'll enjoy just because they're "incomplete" but that  really isn't how it is for a shit ton of people, so I don't think highlighting that you'd be paying for an incomplete story is as persuasive as you can think it is. 

Ah, the "you're gonna miss out for some super weird personal reason, your loss" argument. We saw that earlier in the thread as well. Know what I'd enjoy? A complete version of the game (not really, not an FF7 fan, and this isn't about just FF7). It's not just an incomplete story, it's an incomplete story that's already been told. It's a "remake" that's a literal fraction of the game. Literally the first town of a game with like 15 towns. It's the biggest town, but not "make an entire game out of it" biggest.

 

What we see here isn't people waiting for a great game (I mean, it's FF7 after all, and a modern Square Enix title, so it's mediocrity times two) it's people with FOMO. That's why we say "you're gonna miss out" as though the game evaporates minutes after it launches.  No one's missing out. It's a game. It'll still be there when they finally complete it in 2029. The problem isn't about missing out, it's about setting a terrible precedent for making a product. Pointing out that a shit ton of people don't care about getting quality, quantity or literally anything of value also isn't a compelling argument. Elf on the Shelf was a trend for fuck's sake, we all know people are more than willing to partake in tremendously stupid consumer habits. But people who know better certainly shouldn't be encouraging it.

If there's one thing we know about the gaming industry, once you give them an inch, they colonize your nation. Oh, this partial remake of FF7 was met with ardent defenders? Well shit, time for a Resident Evil remake of the first half of the game. How about the first quarter of Ni No Kuni? Let's sell those morons the first 45 minutes of Destiny 3. If you think developers won't see this and run with the idea, sprint down the fucking street with it, then you haven't been paying attention over the past several years. Outside of people who get praised specifically for not indulging, gaming has gotten demonstrably worse in so many ways over the past decade. Because people not only put up with it, they'll go to fucking bat to tell you why you're crazy to give a shit.

[Nokt]

9 hours ago, Xbob42 said:

Ah, the "you're gonna miss out for some super weird personal reason, your loss" argument. We saw that earlier in the thread as well. Know what I'd enjoy? A complete version of the game (not really, not an FF7 fan, and this isn't about just FF7). It's not just an incomplete story, it's an incomplete story that's already been told. It's a "remake" that's a literal fraction of the game. Literally the first town of a game with like 15 towns. It's the biggest town, but not "make an entire game out of it" biggest.

To be fair more than half of those towns you spend a minuscule amount of time in. Midgar is by far the largest chunk of the game. 

Quote

What we see here isn't people waiting for a great game (I mean, it's FF7 after all, and a modern Square Enix title, so it's mediocrity times two) it's people with FOMO. That's why we say "you're gonna miss out" as though the game evaporates minutes after it launches.  No one's missing out. It's a game. It'll still be there when they finally complete it in 2029. The problem isn't about missing out, it's about setting a terrible precedent for making a product. Pointing out that a shit ton of people don't care about getting quality, quantity or literally anything of value also isn't a compelling argument. Elf on the Shelf was a trend for fuck's sake, we all know people are more than willing to partake in tremendously stupid consumer habits. But people who know better certainly shouldn't be encouraging it.

Let’s be real. Even if the game is a wash it’s name alone will keep it in circulation for awhile. “Why FF7 failed” “Why I like FF7 despite its flaws” “Why FF7 isn’t as bad as you think”. 

Quote

If there's one thing we know about the gaming industry, once you give them an inch, they colonize your nation. Oh, this partial remake of FF7 was met with ardent defenders? Well shit, time for a Resident Evil remake of the first half of the game. How about the first quarter of Ni No Kuni? Let's sell those morons the first 45 minutes of Destiny 3. If you think developers won't see this and run with the idea, sprint down the fucking street with it, then you haven't been paying attention over the past several years. Outside of people who get praised specifically for not indulging, gaming has gotten demonstrably worse in so many ways over the past decade. Because people not only put up with it, they'll go to fucking bat to tell you why you're crazy to give a shit.

Except they’ve said that this isn’t a one for one remake. They are adding new content, scenarios, conversations, bosses, etc. most remasters barley have any new content, if any at all. 
 

To criticize SE is fair. They don’t have a great track record in modern gaming. I also don’t think remaking something into a new modern trilogy(?) is setting a horrible precedent, pending they do it right. I don’t have a lot of hope for SE, but if they pull it off good for them.

[Xbob42]

21 minutes ago, Nokt said:

To be fair more than half of those towns you spend a minuscule amount of time in. Midgar is by far the largest chunk of the game. 

Let’s be real. Even if the game is a wash it’s name alone will keep it in circulation for awhile. “Why FF7 failed” “Why I like FF7 despite its flaws” “Why FF7 isn’t as bad as you think”. 

Except they’ve said that this isn’t a one for one remake. They are adding new content, scenarios, conversations, bosses, etc. most remasters barley have any new content, if any at all. 
 

To criticize SE is fair. They don’t have a great trade record in modern gaming. I also don’t think remaking something into a new modern trilogy(?) is setting a horrible precedent, pending they do it right. I don’t have a lot of hope for SE, but if they pull it off good for them.

These are all fair points, but far removed from "of course I'd buy games split up into chunks."

[legend]

18 hours ago, Xbob42 said:

Ah, the "you're gonna miss out for some super weird personal reason, your loss" argument.

 

Nope, not my angle at all. You can enjoy or not enjoy whatever you want for whatever reason. Nevertheless, a story being "incomplete" is not a holdup for a lot (most?) people and highlighting that the game story isn't complete simply isn't especially insightful nor relevant.

 

EDIT: This final remark seems meaner than intended. I actually like a lot of your thoughts Xbob, but I really don't think highlighting that people will be paying for a game with an incomplete story is going to raise people's flags. Many people already do.

[Greatoneshere]

I think what's being completely missed here is that this isn't (allegedly) a straight remake. If Midgar alone is a large open-world (within reason) that expands what you can do in it far beyond what the original game gave (which is what Square's been saying), then you can't do a like-for-like comparison and thus, any analogy to the original game goes out the window.

 

If the game comes out and it really is an incomplete game unto itself, and we're getting grifted, yeah, I'll change my opinion, but we can't make any assumptions about that yet. Triple A RPG game development is much harder today than it was when FF7 came out so expecting it to be easy to perfectly remake the entire game and have it look like FF15 when they are remaking it from scratch seems a tad unfair to the development teams. Game development is incredibly hard. 

[Brian]

Geez, FFVII still exists. You can play that version.  
 

Anyway, make room for me bud. 
 

[Keyser_Soze]

3 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

. Triple A RPG game development is much harder today than it was when FF7 came out

 

Yes we are all aware of the difficulty of HD towns.

[Greatoneshere]

1 minute ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Yes we are all aware of the difficulty of HD towns.

 

That's pretty dismissive. I'm not making excuses for them, but I can't imagine remaking a classic is easy when you want to expand the scope of the game at the same time at the highest of triple A game development.

[Keyser_Soze]

7 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

That's pretty dismissive. I'm not making excuses for them, but I can't imagine remaking a classic is easy when you want to expand the scope of the game at the same time at the highest of triple A game development.

 

That is literally a quote from Toriyama several years ago.

 

https://www.engadget.com/2010/02/05/final-fantasy-xiii-producers-traditional-rpg-towns-are-tough-to/

[Greatoneshere]

14 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

That is literally a quote from Toriyama several years ago.

 

https://www.engadget.com/2010/02/05/final-fantasy-xiii-producers-traditional-rpg-towns-are-tough-to/

 

Yes I know. I'm saying your post came off as sarcastic. 

[Pikachu]

 

[jaethos]

I wondered why it was only on PS4. There's the answer. As always, moneyhats.

[DarkStar189]

They should have also updated it to say "Part 1" 

[XxEvil AshxX]

14 hours ago, Pikachu said:

 

 

I must have dreamed it, but I could swear when it was originally teased/announced, that it stated it was coming to PS4 "first." Then, magically, all the media outlets were calling it a PS4 exclusive and Xbox/PC was never mentioned again. I wanna say it even went as far as to be featured in a snippet on a MS presentation somewhere. 

 

At least this "news" confirms I wasn't imagining things.

[Pikachu]

 

[elbobo]

only 2 and half months to go.

[Keyser_Soze]

4 minutes ago, elbobo said:

only 2 and half months to go.

 

Or a year and 2 and a half months if you're waiting for the non PS4 edition

[SaysWho?]

 

 

 

 

[Keyser_Soze]

GYA HAA HAA HAA!

[jaethos]

So they're moving the Nibelheim flashbacks into Midgar so they can have Sephiroth?

[Nokt]

58 minutes ago, jaethos said:

So they're moving the Nibelheim flashbacks into Midgar so they can have Sephiroth?

Known about this for awhile 3:02. Probably just another flashback/breakdown

 

[Brian]

This game will be an easy 10/10

[XxEvil AshxX]

Honestly, as much as i loved FFVII back in the day, the timeline in the story was all over the place. If they need to move some events around so they make more sense i'm ok with that.

[Pikachu]