osxmatt Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 Frozen embryos are ‘children,’ Alabama Supreme Court rules in couples’ wrongful death suits WWW.AL.COM The state's highest court reversed a judge's dismissal of the case involving embryos destroyed by a wandering Mobile hospital patient. Quote Three couples whose frozen embryos were destroyed when a wandering Mobile hospital patient dropped the specimens can sue for wrongful death because the embryos were “children,” the Alabama Supreme Court ruled Friday in reversing a judge’s decision to throw out the case. Quote The Wrongful Death of a Minor Act “applies to all unborn children, regardless of their location,” wrote Alabama Supreme Court Justice Jay Mitchell. “[T]he Wrongful Death of a Minor Act is sweeping and unqualified. It applies to all children, born and unborn, without limitation. It is not the role of this Court to craft a new limitation based on our own view of what is or is not wise public policy. That is especially true where, as here, the People of this State have adopted a Constitutional amendment directly aimed at stopping courts from excluding ‘unborn life’ from legal protection.” Quote Mobile Infirmary “allowed one of its patients to leave and/or elope from his or her room in the Infirmary’s hospital area and access the cryogenic storage area,” according to one of the lawsuits. The patient removed embryos from the freezer, and “it is believed that the cryopreservation’s subzero temperatures burned the eloping patient’s hands, causing him or her to drop the cryopreserved embryonic human beings on the floor, where they began to slowly die,” one of the filings stated. By the time hospital staff noticed the incident, all of the embryos died, according to the lawsuits. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
best3444 Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 I can't comment on this because it's way above my pay grade. I'll be interested in some comments on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwheel86 Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 The response to this should be all IVF providers leave the state and do so loudly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbob42 Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 Alabama pretending to care about kids will never not be hilarious. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marioandsonic Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marioandsonic Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 8 minutes ago, Xbob42 said: Alabama pretending to care about kids will never not be hilarious. Aren't they the ones with the loosest child labor laws? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unogueen Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 Jesus wept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firewithin Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 5 minutes ago, marioandsonic said: Aren't they the ones with the loosest child labor laws? only because they know the children yearn for the mines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyphoidHater Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 This infuriates me as at the time embryos are frozen for IVF they have, at best, just entered the blastocyst stage and in a natural pregnancy wouldn't even have implanted into the uterine wall yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uaarkson Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 2 minutes ago, TyphoidHater said: This infuriates me as at the time embryos are frozen for IVF they have, at best, just entered the blastocyst stage and in a natural pregnancy wouldn't even have implanted into the uterine wall yet. This is terminology the libs invented to trick you into thinking a baby isn’t a baby. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
best3444 Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 7 minutes ago, TyphoidHater said: This infuriates me as at the time embryos are frozen for IVF they have, at best, just entered the blastocyst stage and in a natural pregnancy wouldn't even have implanted into the uterine wall yet. This was a post I was waiting for. 5 minutes ago, Uaarkson said: This is terminology the libs invented to trick you into thinking a baby isn’t a baby. Are you being sarcastic? Or don't you agree with what was said? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uaarkson Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 Just now, best3444 said: Are you being sarcastic? Or don't you agree with what was said? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ominous Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 This is the obvious next step, and as soon as they overturned Roe I knew they would come for IVF next. I'm only shocked that it took 2 years to get here. This was the story from May of 2022 that got my blood boiling. Oklahoma abortion ban legislation is among's nation's strictest, heads to governor's desk - CNNPolitics AMP.CNN.COM Oklahoma's legislature on Thursday passed a bill that would ban abortions from the stage of "fertilization" and allow private citizens to sue abortion providers who "knowingly" perform or induce an abortion "on a pregnant woman." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentbob Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 If this was done on purpose then charge the person, not for murder, but this seems to of been an accident. I believe they are the same state that tried to make masturbation = murder. I can’t find it but The Daily Show did a segment about this 5+ years ago. It completely failed but they were gonna charge people for “discharging of potential human life” Now i can see where some anger over, you know, losing what could have been a family’s last hopes for child. Cause we know using them for research for diseases with embryos is the devil’s work. Then (sadly) get what you can from them in money for a settlement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unogueen Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 8 minutes ago, silentbob said: If this was done on purpose then charge the person, not for murder, but this seems to of been an accident. I believe they are the same state that tried to make masturbation = murder. I can’t find it but The Daily Show did a segment about this 5+ years ago. It completely failed but they were gonna charge people for “discharging of potential human life” Now i can see where some anger over, you know, losing what could have been a family’s last hopes for child. Cause we know using them for research for diseases with embryos is the devil’s work. Then (sadly) get what you can from them in money for a settlement. That's the problem. They didn't lose the embryos on purpose but mistake. This was a judgement for the prosecution as sentiment but this shit runs like bloodvessels in bones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewhyteboar Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 Republicans will be coming after birth control next. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUFKAK Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 It’s cool, god has a plan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 The notion that a fertilized embryo is "a child" is absolutely fucking batshit, as it implicates anyone who has ever had a miscarriage or who had a fertilized egg fail to implant on the uterine wall, which is almost everyone who has ever brought a pregnancy to term, as someone who committed manslaughter. This shit is completely unhinged, and the push for rulings like is only takes place because of the misogynistic and patriarchal desire to control reproduction. It's despicable. 2 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 So this means if a woman is murdered all her unfertilized eggs count as children so it could count as murdering hundreds of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepee Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 You know what’s next 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUFKAK Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Incels be like if I can’t enjoy sex nobody can! Also the religious once again ruining things based upon what ancient goat herders said was true; who also needed a god to tell them not to fuck their goats. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 12 hours ago, Kal-El814 said: The notion that a fertilized embryo is "a child" is absolutely fucking batshit, as it implicates anyone who has ever had a miscarriage or who had a fertilized egg fail to implant on the uterine wall, which is almost everyone who has ever brought a pregnancy to term, as someone who committed manslaughter. This shit is completely unhinged, and the push for rulings like is only takes place because of the misogynistic and patriarchal desire to control reproduction. It's despicable. For it to be manslaughter, a law would need to be on the books to warrant miscarriage/failed implantation/etc as criminally negligent homicide with enough directness for culpability. Ultimately, its part of our reproductive biology: humans can and often do die in the early stages of development. An embryo may not implant. Miscarriages happen. Many people don't decide to sympathize with it as a child at these points. Which is okay, as long as that perspective isn't turned back around into an argument against nature. As for control, you'd truly have to ban unprotected sex to be consistent with the manslaughter idea. And you basically doom your society with that in theory. Which is unhinged, but also not a pro-life argument. I could also draw an analogy to doctors who perform life saving procedures. There's a high burden of proof to be charged with malpractice if they lose a patient. If they can be legally protected, for good reason, I don't see how it makes sense to go after women who suffer a miscarriage. Anyways, I’ll be bowing out here because of the past. Just wanted to offer this perspective. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUFKAK Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Forced birthers love to tell us what’s happening isn’t a part of the plan they’ve literally been screaming in support of for decades. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unogueen Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Society isn't intrinsic, it is a thing made by man. And a lot of people think this is a good time for techno feudalism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 5 hours ago, crispy4000 said: .As for control, you'd truly have to ban unprotected sex to be consistent with the manslaughter idea. And you basically doom your society with that in theory. Which is unhinged, but also not a pro-life argument. No. Birth control can fail. Barrier methods can break or not be used correctly. Hormonal methods are not perfect, nor are IUDs. And so on. If penetrative, vaginal sex could result in a fertilized embryo, why does that potential “child” matter less simply because its existence is less probable? Intentionality makes it manslaughter, not murder. But you can’t play the “that’s just how biology works” card simply because it would make things inconvenient or legally impractical. EDIT - the simple reality is that if a fertilized embryo is a child, then any fertility clinic that does IVF is participating in the indefinite incarceration and eventual mass execution of children, and the process is one of the greatest moral sins humanity has ever undertaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chakoo Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 12 hours ago, TUFKAK said: It’s cool, god has a plan We all know what that is for Florida, I’d like to know what it is for Alabama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chakoo Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 I feel bad for the parents who had those embryos there for possible children (women have a set number of eggs) but this law is fucking gross and this should just be a damages suit against the hospital/ivf clinic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firewithin Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 13 hours ago, Kal-El814 said: The notion that a fertilized embryo is "a child" is absolutely fucking batshit, as it implicates anyone who has ever had a miscarriage or who had a fertilized egg fail to implant on the uterine wall, which is almost everyone who has ever brought a pregnancy to term, as someone who committed manslaughter. This shit is completely unhinged, and the push for rulings like is only takes place because of the misogynistic and patriarchal desire to control reproduction. It's despicable. like werent some of these shithole states trying to imprison women who had a miscarriage already? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 15 minutes ago, Firewithin said: like werent some of these shithole states trying to imprison women who had a miscarriage already? The state was Ohio and the charges (which were dismissed by a grand jury) weren't because she miscarried, but because she tried to dispose of the corpse by flushing it down the toilet. Even the state prosecutor disagreed with the original charges: Quote In a lengthy statement outlining the case and prosecution timeline, Dennis Watkins, the Trumbull County prosecutor, said that his office had found that Ms. Watts had not violated the law as claimed in the initial complaint and that it disagreed with a lower court’s application of the law after interviewing witnesses “and researching and applying the law.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spawn_of_Apathy Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 The religious right do not deserve medical science. Any of it. Not to work around it, not to own stocks in it, not to save their life, and not to benefit from it in any way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 10 hours ago, chakoo said: I feel bad for the parents who had those embryos there for possible children (women have a set number of eggs) but this law is fucking gross and this should just be a damages suit against the hospital/ivf clinic. This, 1000x this. Again, if the states making these rulings or changing laws around reproductive health truly cared about children and not just reproductive control... they'd raise taxes to help fund child or parent welfare programs, not be opposed to slashing things like school lunch programs, promote sex education to reduce unwanted pregnancies, etc. But that never happens in these cases, because it's demonstrably NOT about "the children." There's decades of ink spilled on this stuff. I've no doubt for some individuals, yes, it's about protecting "children" or "life." But that's absolutely not what shit like what inspired this thread is about, and there is is so much evidence to support that. There is no reason to provide a charitable interpretation to any of this. It is about reproductive control. Full stop. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwheel86 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 I have a different idea, IVF Clinics should surrender freezers full of frozen embryos to local fire stations under Safe Haven laws and make them Wards of the State. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricofoley Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 The allegedly moderate choice in the Republican primary weighs in Nikki Haley sides with Alabama Supreme Court on IVF ruling: 'Embryos, to me, are babies' WWW.NBCNEWS.COM The Alabama court's recent ruling raised concerns among doctors and patients that classifying embryos as children could restrict in-vitro fertilization. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewhyteboar Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 So when the Texas electrical grid inevitably fails again, and all those IVF refrigerators conk out, we can charge Abbott with mass murder? 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyPiranha Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 I think embryos are typically in dewars of liquid nitrogen to avoid this exact problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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