Television The Mandalorian OT - This is the Way

[GeneticBlueprint]

11 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

The Empire having a dope ass weapon that ultimately ends up getting dunked on is 100% on brand, so no issues there. All the combat stuff with Mando in this episode was really fun to watch. The only nit I have to pick with this season writ large as it pertains to action... man I know Stormtroopers aren't great, but they get John Wick'd by EVERYONE this season. Shit they got the drop on Fennec and Cara in the finale and they didn't even shoot! Rarely has plot armor been so thick.

 

I feel like this is a thing where Filoni or Favreau made it happen in one episode as kind of a joke and wink to people and then it carried over into cannon. Which is a fucking travesty. Because the OT treats them like they should be treated. Deadly, but whenever they look dumb or incompetent it's because they're being ordered to let somebody escape or lead them to a trap. 

[Reputator]

I think the idea of Storm Troopers being all-around terrible ties into their Nazi party imitation. Especially late war Nazi party, with the crazy experiments and inventions, the cultish attitudes, and the desperate deployment of undertrained soldiers. Troopers are recruited but also kidnapped, forced into servitude, and yeah probably severely undertrained by the time we get to post-Endor.

[Kal-El814]

1 hour ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

I feel like this is a thing where Filoni or Favreau made it happen in one episode as kind of a joke and wink to people and then it carried over into cannon. Which is a fucking travesty. Because the OT treats them like they should be treated. Deadly, but whenever they look dumb or incompetent it's because they're being ordered to let somebody escape or lead them to a trap. 

 

Yeah the genie’s been out of that particular bottle forever now. So much of the canon just doesn’t work if Stormtroopers can aim or had more than a couple neurons rattling around upstairs.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

1 hour ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

Yeah the genie’s been out of that particular bottle forever now. So much of the canon just doesn’t work if Stormtroopers can aim or had more than a couple neurons rattling around upstairs.

although when they did the opposite with Rogue One I felt it worked very well the empire and storm troopers felt more competent and frightening. In that movie that was an Empire to be feared, with a Darth Vader that struck terror in everyone. 
 

but yeah, it is good fun when the Empire and storm troopers are a joke. Like Rex in Rebels complaining he can’t see in a storm trooper helmet to explain his poor shot. Then he just takes the helmet off and chunks it at a storm trooper. lol ah good stuff. 

[Kal-El814]

23 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

although when they did the opposite with Rogue One I felt it worked very well the empire and storm troopers felt more competent and frightening. In that movie that was an Empire to be feared, with a Darth Vader that struck terror in everyone. 
 

but yeah, it is good fun when the Empire and storm troopers are a joke. Like Rex in Rebels complaining he can’t see in a storm trooper helmet to explain his poor shot. Then he just takes the helmet off and chunks it at a storm trooper. lol ah good stuff. 

 

This is a good point as well, and it gets to the heart of how I personally approach canon in all my media now, which is that (generally) do not care. In one movie Stormies are ace, in another they suck, Stormies in armor get clowned on by blasters in one shot, Leia takes a blast in a tunic and she's okay, etc. It's all fine.

[skillzdadirecta]

4 hours ago, Kal-El814 said:

 Peak Star Wars for me currently is, in no particular order... ESB, TLJ, Rebels season 2 finale episodes, and Rebels season 4 finale episodes. This show is probably on the cusp of that list, depending on how things shake out.

Ok I'm starting Rebels immediately... too many people are telling me I should watch this show.

[johnny]

2 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Ok I'm starting Rebels immediately... too many people are telling me I should watch this show.

yes you should 

[skillzdadirecta]

4 hours ago, CayceG said:

This is one of the best reaction videos I have ever seen. 

 

 

 

 

 

None of us enjoyed the finale or were invested as much as this mom. 

That was awesome.... made my day 

[Kal-El814]

1 hour ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Ok I'm starting Rebels immediately... too many people are telling me I should watch this show.

It starts a little slow, though not nearly as rough as the Clone Wars cartoon movie. But by the middle of season 1 through the end it generally hovers between good to excellent with maybe one or two stumbles, and none of those are as bad as the “turns out Jar Jar fucks” episode of Clone Wars. Season 2’s finale is just... chef’s kiss. I know you’re just starting but I can’t want for you to get there!

 

Also if you watch it on Disney+... just accept that the splash images they use for the show when you select an episode AND the show selection image itself on the main D+ menu BOTH have spoilers! No idea why they did that... but they did!

 

There’s a separate Star Wars Rebels Shorts thing in the Disney+ library, separate from the main show. If you end up there accidentally and wonder why there’s only one season and the episodes are 3 minutes king, that’s why

 

Edit - meant to say 3 minutes long, but king works so I’m leaving it

[GeneticBlueprint]

[Bacon]

masta peece 

 

[Alpha1Cowboy]

Wait....I thought R2 saved Grogu..... when he came in and started chirping so long I figured that it was because it was some sort of long ago reveal....because I thought when Anakin went to the Jedi Temple he had R2 with him..

 

Overall great season..great episode.

 

As i said elsewhere Abrams and Johnson could take some pointers from Filoni and Favreau on world building and character development.   There's a way to handle fan service while also expanding the story and creating emotional connections

 

[CitizenVectron]

On 12/19/2020 at 10:18 PM, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

 

Luke finding them felt pretty Deus ex Machina even for Star Wars. Especially for the Mandalorian. Maybe had the X-wing come out of hyperspace with Slave-1, I could think “oh Boba remembered Luke, found him and lead him to the ship to help”. 

 

I think it's been setup enough in the past with:

• The beacon calling out to Jedi
• In ESB Leia was able to home in on Luke just using the Force

The Force can be used for whatever purpose is needed in the story. It's a soft magic system, effectively.

[69los]

 

[CitizenVectron]

Here is the actual music from Luke's arrival:

 

 

There's a chord progression starting around 00:55-00:58 that really reminds me of Terminator, and it's repeated later on as well.

[CitizenVectron]

Oh also, someone made a really great mashup of The Force Theme + Mandalorian theme (including bits from A Friend from the season finale) + Jedi Steps, etc. Really good stuff:

 

 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

49 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

I think it's been setup enough in the past with:

• The beacon calling out to Jedi
• In ESB Leia was able to home in on Luke just using the Force

The Force can be used for whatever purpose is needed in the story. It's a soft magic system, effectively.

oh I’m well aware of the levels of deus ex machina the force can be to move the plot or get heroes our of a tight spot. I never assumed it couldn’t be explained. 
 

they made the beacon seem like a signal flare to Jedi. Not something that would create a powerful bond between the two making Grogu low jacked. And the Luke and Leia thing was always explained as being possible because of their strong connection to each other. Even still, it’s something used as the story needs it, as there are times they seemingly don’t have this power when they need the tension and suspense of two close Jedi not being able to just sense the other is alive or their exact location in the galaxy. 
 

if Jedi powers were consistent there’d almost never be any tension ever if a Jedi is around. Heck, Luke shouldn’t have even needed his lightsaber. 
 

I’m not going to get hung up on it. I’m sure there will be an interview or something at some point giving a canonical explanation for everything in the episode. It’s just a thought I had after seeing the episode. In the end this didn’t affect my enjoyment of the scenes. 

[number305]

6 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

oh I’m well aware of the levels of deus ex machina the force can be to move the plot or get heroes our of a tight spot. I never assumed it couldn’t be explained. 
 

they made the beacon seem like a signal flare to Jedi. Not something that would create a powerful bond between the two making Grogu low jacked. And the Luke and Leia thing was always explained as being possible because of their strong connection to each other. Even still, it’s something used as the story needs it, as there are times they seemingly don’t have this power when they need the tension and suspense of two close Jedi not being able to just sense the other is alive or their exact location in the galaxy. 
 

if Jedi powers were consistent there’d almost never be any tension ever if a Jedi is around. Heck, Luke shouldn’t have even needed his lightsaber. 
 

I’m not going to get hung up on it. I’m sure there will be an interview or something at some point giving a canonical explanation for everything in the episode. It’s just a thought I had after seeing the episode. In the end this didn’t affect my enjoyment of the scenes. 

I'm not bashing this show at all - love it.  Best star wars content since the 80's in my opinion.

 

But yeah seems several things including storm troopers, droids, and jedi are as powerful or weak as the story needs them to be.  Remember in PM Obi wan and Qui gon having problems with a couple destroyer droids - and these dark troopers seem on another level from those but luke went through them like they weren't there.

[Alpha1Cowboy]

8 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

oh I’m well aware of the levels of deus ex machina the force can be to move the plot or get heroes our of a tight spot. I never assumed it couldn’t be explained. 
 

they made the beacon seem like a signal flare to Jedi. Not something that would create a powerful bond between the two making Grogu low jacked. And the Luke and Leia thing was always explained as being possible because of their strong connection to each other. Even still, it’s something used as the story needs it, as there are times they seemingly don’t have this power when they need the tension and suspense of two close Jedi not being able to just sense the other is alive or their exact location in the galaxy. 
 

if Jedi powers were consistent there’d almost never be any tension ever if a Jedi is around. Heck, Luke shouldn’t have even needed his lightsaber. 
 

I’m not going to get hung up on it. I’m sure there will be an interview or something at some point giving a canonical explanation for everything in the episode. It’s just a thought I had after seeing the episode. In the end this didn’t affect my enjoyment of the scenes. 

 

 

Technically..if Luke went to Tython and investigated he would have found a whole lotta dead storm troopers and a couple of wrecked ships including Mando's and conisdering we've seen X wings thoughout the season having tracked Mando's ship having saved him and having been in contact with Cara Dune...and considering she borrowed a Prisoner who "died" on Morak..this might have led Luke to the destruction there and sightings of Slave 1....and it can be entirely plausible that it was a combination of the force and investigation combined.

 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

4 minutes ago, Alpha1Cowboy said:

 

 

Technically..if Luke went to Tython and investigated he would have found a whole lotta dead storm troopers and a couple of wrecked ships including Mando's and conisdering we've seen X wings thoughout the season having tracked Mando's ship having saved him and having been in contact with Cara Dune...and considering she borrowed a Prisoner who "died" on Morak..this might have led Luke to the destruction there and sightings of Slave 1....and it can be entirely plausible that it was a combination of the force and investigation combined.

 

thats why I suggested before that had the X-wing come out of hyperspace with Slave-1 there at the end, instead of by itself it would have made the logical leap a bit easier. Because Luke found Boba Fett and Slave 1, or the other way around, since maybe Fett remembered this Jedi that tore up Jaba’s barge that had ties to the Rebellion. 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

22 minutes ago, number305 said:

I'm not bashing this show at all - love it.  Best star wars content since the 80's in my opinion.

 

But yeah seems several things including storm troopers, droids, and jedi are as powerful or weak as the story needs them to be.  Remember in PM Obi wan and Qui gon having problems with a couple destroyer droids - and these dark troopers seem on another level from those but luke went through them like they weren't there.

...or like when Qui-gon and Obi-wan use the force to run away from the destroyers at super fast speed, and then we never see them or another Jedi use a burst of speed like that again. lol. They just move at regular speed from there on out. 

[Alpha1Cowboy]

21 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

...or like when Qui-gon and Obi-wan use the force to run away from the destroyers at super fast speed, and then we never see them or another Jedi use a burst of speed like that again. lol. They just move at regular speed from there on out. 

Emporer Palpatine definitely did when they came to arrest him and I think i saw Mace Windu do it..but that might have been a force jump.  

 

I think in the novels it says it drains a Force user but those aren't techncially canon..depending on the book and time period.    Hard to recall..I've read so many.

 

 

 

[CitizenVectron]

Something that is talked about in the fantasy writing community is the idea of soft vs hard magic systems, and I think it applies to Star Wars since it's just space fantasy:

 

Basically, soft magic is where you don't have rules, and hard magic is where you do. Systems with cause-and-effect and "mana" (or some cost) are typically hard magic. A good rule for authors to follow is to never have soft magic be used by the point-of-view character to solve problems. It can be used to create problems, or a third-party can change the course of the narrative with it (Gandalf, for example). Hard magic is better for solving problems since it follows the rule of promise-and-payoff.

 

So if you've ever watched or read something where the hero pulls something out of their ass at the end and it didn't feel earned, it could be because it was a version of soft magic. But on the other hand, soft magic can be great for inspiring awe since it's usually left vague and undefined, and only surfaces to push the plot forward. That's why the Force is so cool (though it exists somewhere between hard and soft, really).

[Alpha1Cowboy]

15 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

Something that is talked about in the fantasy writing community is the idea of soft vs hard magic systems, and I think it applies to Star Wars since it's just space fantasy:

 

Basically, soft magic is where you don't have rules, and hard magic is where you do. Systems with cause-and-effect and "mana" (or some cost) are typically hard magic. A good rule for authors to follow is to never have soft magic be used by the point-of-view character to solve problems. It can be used to create problems, or a third-party can change the course of the narrative with it (Gandalf, for example). Hard magic is better for solving problems since it follows the rule of promise-and-payoff.

 

So if you've ever watched or read something where the hero pulls something out of their ass at the end and it didn't feel earned, it could be because it was a version of soft magic. But on the other hand, soft magic can be great for inspiring awe since it's usually left vague and undefined, and only surfaces to push the plot forward. That's why the Force is so cool (though it exists somewhere between hard and soft, really).

 

 

Oh yeah...star wars definitely doesn't have rules....or the rules apply uniquely to each individual. Kind of like how in Harry Potter certain wizards were stringer or weaker or could do one type of magic better than another.  

 

Pretty much every 80's film was about pulling shit out of your ass to win the day..just rewatched The Last Starfighter last night...Death Blossom anyone?  

 

Moving close to that Popcorn Flick to Popcorn Television...but in the end...it's all about the fun

[CitizenVectron]

4 minutes ago, Alpha1Cowboy said:

 

 

Oh yeah...star wars definitely doesn't have rules....or the rules apply uniquely to each individual. Kind of like how in Harry Potter certain wizards were stringer or weaker or could do one type of magic better than another.  

 

Pretty much every 80's film was about pulling shit out of your ass to win the day..just rewatched The Last Starfighter last night...Death Blossom anyone?  

 

Moving close to that Popcorn Flick to Popcorn Television...but in the end...it's all about the fun

 

Definitely. As long as it follows The Rule of Cool (Rule of Cool - TV Tropes - warning, TV Tropes!) then it gets a pass from me. It's why I don't care about sound in space or curving turbolasers, etc. As long as it's cool and it moves the plot forward, it's fine.

 

Rule of Cool:

Quote

The limit of the Willing Suspension of Disbelief for a given element is directly proportional to its awesomeness.

 

[Alpha1Cowboy]

6 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

Definitely. As long as it follows The Rule of Cool (Rule of Cool - TV Tropes - warning, TV Tropes!) then it gets a pass from me. It's why I don't care about sound in space or curving turbolasers, etc. As long as it's cool and it moves the plot forward, it's fine.

 

Rule of Cool:

 

The 80's in a nutshell

 

Skip to 3:21 for the fun...talk about storm troopers having bad aim....I think he kills the same 100 guys a couple of times with umm..unlimited ammo

 hack?

 

 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

1 hour ago, CitizenVectron said:

Something that is talked about in the fantasy writing community is the idea of soft vs hard magic systems, and I think it applies to Star Wars since it's just space fantasy:

 

Basically, soft magic is where you don't have rules, and hard magic is where you do. Systems with cause-and-effect and "mana" (or some cost) are typically hard magic. A good rule for authors to follow is to never have soft magic be used by the point-of-view character to solve problems. It can be used to create problems, or a third-party can change the course of the narrative with it (Gandalf, for example). Hard magic is better for solving problems since it follows the rule of promise-and-payoff.

 

So if you've ever watched or read something where the hero pulls something out of their ass at the end and it didn't feel earned, it could be because it was a version of soft magic. But on the other hand, soft magic can be great for inspiring awe since it's usually left vague and undefined, and only surfaces to push the plot forward. That's why the Force is so cool (though it exists somewhere between hard and soft, really).

yeah, I’m fairly familiar with hard and soft magic systems. Avatar the Last Airbender is a good example of a world with a hard magic system. 
 

Star Wars and a show like Naruto are very much soft magic systems. There are some rules, but only so much that not everyone can do everything. Other than that it is almost anything goes for the writers. Which can be booth cool and head scratching for viewers at times. 

[TwinIon]

How much Grogu do you all think we'll be getting in Season 3? The way it was left, it sure seems like his role in Mando's story could be done, but for completely non-plot reasons I have a hard time believing it.

 

You could make a good argument that Grogu is the most important character in media right now. Disney is effectively betting the company on Disney+. They're not burning down the rest of the empire around them, but it's clearly the centerpiece of their media strategy for the foreseeable future. Grogu is the crossover point that spawned a billion memes on the only original draw that Disney+ has at launch. Due to Disney's rush to get a streaming service out ASAP and the Covid delays, the Mandalorian has been the single original pillar, and the only real pull outside the (obviously valuable) Disney catalog.

 

So Grogu is arguably the biggest draw on the biggest show, on the most important media platform of the biggest media company in the world. If I'm Bob Chapek (Disney's CEO), there is no way in hell I'm allowing a season 3 to sideline that draw.

 

Now, you can argue that while the Mandalorian was integral to the launch of Disney+, by the time Season 3 rolls around there will be several other Star Wars shows to ease that burden, along with several Marvel, Disney, and Pixar entries. So Grogu's place as a singular draw is no longer necessary. Still, you don't sideline your star player just because it seems like you're about to take the lead.

[skillzdadirecta]

4 hours ago, 69los said:

 

Robert Rodriguez eh? He directed the Tython episode I believe.

 

Quote

16 minutes ago, TwinIon said:

How much Grogu do you all think we'll be getting in Season 3? The way it was left, it sure seems like his role in Mando's story could be done, but for completely non-plot reasons I have a hard time believing it.

 

You could make a good argument that Grogu is the most important character in media right now. Disney is effectively betting the company on Disney+. They're not burning down the rest of the empire around them, but it's clearly the centerpiece of their media strategy for the foreseeable future. Grogu is the crossover point that spawned a billion memes on the only original draw that Disney+ has at launch. Due to Disney's rush to get a streaming service out ASAP and the Covid delays, the Mandalorian has been the single original pillar, and the only real pull outside the (obviously valuable) Disney catalog.

 

So Grogu is arguably the biggest draw on the biggest show, on the most important media platform of the biggest media company in the world. If I'm Bob Chapek (Disney's CEO), there is no way in hell I'm allowing a season 3 to sideline that draw.

 

Now, you can argue that while the Mandalorian was integral to the launch of Disney+, by the time Season 3 rolls around there will be several other Star Wars shows to ease that burden, along with several Marvel, Disney, and Pixar entries. So Grogu's place as a singular draw is no longer necessary. Still, you don't sideline your star player just because it seems like you're about to take the lead.

I don't think we'll see much of Grogu next season if at all from a narrative standpoint. At least no on THIS show. By this time next year, Disney+ should have so much content that they won't need to rely so much on this one show... starting in January, we'll effectively be getting a new series every couple of months for the rest of the year, not to mention whatever they decide to do with the films they have on the shelf. The Mandalorean has done its job as a show as the tentpole of the service.

 

I don't expect we'll see Grogu until late in the season, the following season OR in the rumored Luke Skywalker series that's supposedly in development according to rumors.

[johnny]

4 hours ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

...or like when Qui-gon and Obi-wan use the force to run away from the destroyers at super fast speed, and then we never see them or another Jedi use a burst of speed like that again. lol. They just move at regular speed from there on out. 

hold on WAIT

 

you mean to tell me them shooting out of the frame like a cartoon was intentional and had a reason behind it? lmao i always thought it was just shit editing or something 

[johnny]

1 hour ago, TwinIon said:

How much Grogu do you all think we'll be getting in Season 3? The way it was left, it sure seems like his role in Mando's story could be done, but for completely non-plot reasons I have a hard time believing it.

 

You could make a good argument that Grogu is the most important character in media right now. Disney is effectively betting the company on Disney+. They're not burning down the rest of the empire around them, but it's clearly the centerpiece of their media strategy for the foreseeable future. Grogu is the crossover point that spawned a billion memes on the only original draw that Disney+ has at launch. Due to Disney's rush to get a streaming service out ASAP and the Covid delays, the Mandalorian has been the single original pillar, and the only real pull outside the (obviously valuable) Disney catalog.

 

So Grogu is arguably the biggest draw on the biggest show, on the most important media platform of the biggest media company in the world. If I'm Bob Chapek (Disney's CEO), there is no way in hell I'm allowing a season 3 to sideline that draw.

 

Now, you can argue that while the Mandalorian was integral to the launch of Disney+, by the time Season 3 rolls around there will be several other Star Wars shows to ease that burden, along with several Marvel, Disney, and Pixar entries. So Grogu's place as a singular draw is no longer necessary. Still, you don't sideline your star player just because it seems like you're about to take the lead.

i’m hoping zero grogu 

 

both grogu and mando have things they’re doing and don’t need to interact for a while. i’m guessing we will get something in the season 3 finale with him 

[Kal-El814]

1 hour ago, johnny said:

hold on WAIT

 

you mean to tell me them shooting out of the frame like a cartoon was intentional and had a reason behind it? lmao i always thought it was just shit editing or something 

 

It is definitely intended to be Force speed.

[CayceG]

1 hour ago, johnny said:

hold on WAIT

 

you mean to tell me them shooting out of the frame like a cartoon was intentional and had a reason behind it? lmao i always thought it was just shit editing or something 

 

Yeah. 

 

It was pretty dumb and I'm glad they didn't bother revisiting that. 

[CitizenVectron]

All I'm saying is, if they remove Grogu from the show then they will probably lose 50%+ of their audience. We love SW, but people who don't love SW still love Grogu. My wife loves watching the show because they are trying to protect and save him.

[Remarkableriots]

22 minutes ago, CayceG said:

 

Yeah. 

 

It was pretty dumb and I'm glad they didn't bother revisiting that. 

Qui-Gon also used it to grab Jar Jar's tongue.