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Peter Dinklage criticizes the upcoming remake of Snow White


Kamusha

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6 hours ago, Komusha said:

 

Maybe let audiences get to know and love larger sized actors? I dunno, something doesn't sit right when they cast someone conventionally attractive like Jared Leto and make him look ugly with makeup, and they everyone praises the transformation. There are so many great character actors who would do well, but they aren't cast because they weren't born with the right looks or hairline. It wasn't always that bad. I remember the 90's being a time when someone who looked like Jason Alexander or Wayne Knight could become household names.

 

Our society is so beauty obsessed that as a whole people don't seem to mind how much we discriminate against others based on genetics.

 

TikTok and Instagram aren't gonna make it any better. 

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larger actors tend to get boxed into the funny fat person role. being funny seems to be how a decent amount of them seem to get popular in the first place because they likely wont be picked for their looks or even acting ability.

 

somebody like paul walter hauser was great in Richard Jewell but it seems his main stuff is always comedic (which he's great at), but I hope he is getting offers for diverse acting roles

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  • 1 year later...
On 1/27/2022 at 1:30 AM, Kamusha said:

What I've been thinking about more is Dinklage's larger point that there's a lot of hypocrisy in Hollywood surrounding representation and casting. Like how they pat themselves on the back for a racially diverse cast, but when it comes to something like House of Gucci or the upcoming Batman movie they rather have a movie star wear a fat suit the entire movie rather than giving a job to one of the many overweight actors out there who would be just as good in the movie if given the chance.

 


not just actors, but there’s not always enough diversity in the writers and directors. It’s gotten better, but this was an area I saw Disney as very hypocritical years ago too. Touting their diversity in cast all while only ever hiring white, middle aged men to direct. 

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I really, really, really, really, really, really get fucking sick of white men on the internet pretending they give one single iota of a fuck about protecting the integrity of European fairy tales by making sure that we only see white people in them. maybe... just maybe the race of the character isn't the fucking point you kumquats.

 

BuT iT sAyS iN tHe OriGiNaL tHaT sNoW WhiTe is WhiTe

 

Sure it does. I'm betting that's also something you didn't fucking know before you decided to get pissed off about it in the first place.

 

If Ridley Scott cast Idris Elba as Napoleon for a historical epic... yeah, I might be pissed about that. Well, I don't think "pissed" is the right word, but you're trying to tell a true story and you should try to be as authentic as possible. I wouldn't cast Jim Caviezel to play Jesus, for example (oh wait...). But we're talking about fairy tales and fantasy. The fact that white people want to claim ownership over these fantasy characters who live in a world without race as perpetually white is racism so thinly veiled it's almost transparent.

 

BuT tHeN wOuLd yOU CaSt A whItE guY aS BLaCk PaNtHeR?

 

No. Black panther is a character that exists in our world. Being black is part of the identity of the character. Just like I wouldn't cast a black person as the traditional Clark Kent Superman, middle-america white-boy Americana is kind of integral to his character. His character wouldn't make sense as a black person (in my opinion).

 

 

But we're talking about characters who exist in fantasy worlds who don't have racial politics. In fact, by getting so upset over a character in those worlds' race being "changed," one might say.... you're bringing politics into it.

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16 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

I really, really, really, really, really, really get fucking sick of white men on the internet pretending they give one single iota of a fuck about protecting the integrity of European fairy tales by making sure that we only see white people in them. maybe... just maybe the race of the character isn't the fucking point you kumquats.

 

BuT iT sAyS iN tHe OriGiNaL tHaT sNoW WhiTe is WhiTe

 

Sure it does. I'm betting that's also something you didn't fucking know before you decided to get pissed off about it in the first place.

 

If Ridley Scott cast Idris Elba as Napoleon for a historical epic... yeah, I might be pissed about that. Well, I don't think "pissed" is the right word, but you're trying to tell a true story and you should try to be as authentic as possible. I wouldn't cast Jim Caviezel to play Jesus, for example (oh wait...). But we're talking about fairy tales and fantasy. The fact that white people want to claim ownership over these fantasy characters who live in a world without race as perpetually white is racism so thinly veiled it's almost transparent.

 

BuT tHeN wOuLd yOU CaSt A whItE guY aS BLaCk PaNtHeR?

 

No. Black panther is a character that exists in our world. Being black is part of the identity of the character. Just like I wouldn't cast a black person as the traditional Clark Kent Superman, middle-america white-boy Americana is kind of integral to his character. His character wouldn't make sense as a black person (in my opinion).

 

 

But we're talking about characters who exist in fantasy worlds who don't have racial politics. In fact, by getting so upset over a character in those worlds' race being "changed," one might say.... you're bringing politics into it.

 

More to your point, how many black people were allowed to write and publish books at the time of Hans Christian Andersen? Or the Brothers Grimm? How many of their stories were allowed to be told, or were made famous? Preserving the "whiteness" of those European stories is also preserving the racial disparity of that time period.

 

And what about the stories change because of their race? How do race swaps somehow affect the quality of those movies? The live action Mulan didn't  change races. Pinocchio didn't change (most) of the character races. Beauty and the Beast, nope. The Lion King doesn't even apply. All much worse films than their animated counterparts. But let's make "woke" race changes the core of the issue.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/18/2023 at 9:05 AM, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

 

I REALLY despise that guy's channel because I've repeatedly seen borderline (if not outright overtly) racist/sexist takes from him and don't want it posted on this board going forward.

 

This response has rented entirely FAR too much space & time in my head & heart, and I feel as though I have to make a statement here (for whatever its worth, probably to fall upon deaf ears/blind eyes):

 

You and SO many others here are outright critical of everything that challenges your own beliefs immediately, and just write it off. IDGAF about "alleged" racist/sexist things that can be taken entirely out of context where one is actively looking for reasons to dislike an individual. Furthermore, some on his open discussions are truly not that cool & hence why I don't follow their channels or anything. However, I do still subscribe to his bottom line that he has never wavered on, that Disney is a shell of its former self, they're leading the charge with far too much apparent leftist bullshit, and the overall quality of film as a whole is suffering & has been for far too long because of it.

 

I am able to listen/read/watch something, hear what it is that they are attempting to get across as the main point, and any asides or whatever that may lay within, I can parse out and dismiss. Drinker is an accomplished writer of numerous works & understands the craft of writing, so when he has critiques and such, I listen to what he has to say & then take a long hard look at the world around as well as the 'entertainment' being put out there & see the ironies, fallacies, and contradictions inherent within.

 

To just shun those who happen to have a wider base of rational, critical thinking skills just because they do not happen to align to the norms of the day is a fallacy. It's dismissive and wrong in an age wherein equality is supposed to be championed outright (herein resides the aforementioned irony).

 

The main point I am attempting to get across is that I've been here since the end of 2010, I've never changed in terms of politics or idealism that I adhere to. The fact that it's come to a point where I'm not even comfortable doing much more than just 'liking' posts with reactions really says a lot about how your response @Commissar SFLUFANto me weeks ago & this ensuing response, really has hurt me as a member of this community.

 

Furthermore, I would like to point out that Tyrone Magnus himself, not only follows Drinker, but even uploads reaction vids to ones that CD uploads ... so is it REALLY racist if a black man himself can watch, enjoy, and interact with this clearly NOT racist individual?

 

Sorry for the long rant, but as I said earlier, it has really rented space inside of me and it hurt me. I did want to initially send a DM, but I'm actually curious if there are any others to chime in that are either like-minded in my retort, or want to double down but be respectful about it, then that's fine too. My only aim is to alert others as to how they're being perceived & this site as a whole has slowly transitioned to this hive minded mentality and I just cannot deal with the insanity of it.

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1 hour ago, SoberChef said:

This response has rented entirely FAR too much space & time in my head & heart, and I feel as though I have to make a statement here (for whatever its worth, probably to fall upon deaf ears/blind eyes):

 

You know people did try to honestly engage with you in the RFK thread but you never returned. That would have been interesting to see.

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1 hour ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

You know people did try to honestly engage with you in the RFK thread but you never returned. That would have been interesting to see.


While I don’t necessarily agree with @SoberChef (though, I do like and respect him), only 2 or maybe 3 people attempted to honestly engage with him in that RFK Jr thread, everyone else kept taking pot shots and being genuine douche bags rather than taking an extra minute to explain why RFK Jr is the giant fart noted in that thread. I can’t blame him for peaceing out from the discussion and not returning to it.

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Yeah that RFK thread is what it is and genuinely not one to engage in a positive light (nor would most people) when it's akin to what Spork said. As for here, I mean I don't even want to disrupt the thread really it's just that I felt compelled to speak my mind finally after over 2 weeks of it festering.

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@SoberChef

 

I genuinely appreciate your thoughtful post and sincerely apologize that my edict had personally caused you to feel hurt.  I can assure that was not my intent and I am well and truly sorry! 

 

However, what I will make absolutely no apologies for whatsoever is that I have a chosen a side in this ongoing "cultural civil war" and I'd rather not give any more "engagement-driven oxygen" to those that I consider to be adversaries (or -- in many cases -- outright enemies) in this conflict, especially through a medium that I pay well over $2,000/year to maintain with zero expectation of recompense.

 

Members on this site are absolutely free to seek out those opinions on their own and bring them to the table in their discussions because -- as you insightfully stated --  that allows the individual to "hear what it is that they are attempting to get across as the main point" and "any asides or whatever that may lay within" can be "parsed out and dismissed" (though I personally think that's impossible in the case of someone like CD for whom the "asides" are indistinguishable from the "main point", but I digress).  But to actually directly link to their content which increases their engagement metrics and therefore revenue?  Nah - not on my watch, as completely insignificant to the overall scheme of things it may be.

 

I'm absolutely well-aware of how I am -- and by extension, this board is -- perceived as a "hive-mind", "insane left-wing shithole", etc.  To which I say, "guilty as charged" and again, I make no apologies for that at all.

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Thank you @Commissar SFLUFAN for a well rounded retort. In that very context, to which I had anticipated but also hoped you would allude to, is illuminate me as to your investment here. I totally hear & understand your position of money spent & expectations & standards being set. While I may not fully agree with "either agree with my side or get lost" (yes I know you didn't put it in such words, but those who are apt to infer BS would read it as such), is a very Sith like position to adhere to. Therefore, it is my mission going forward, that if & when necessary, to be the one standing ground (kinda lonesome but hey I grew up an only child, so I can play by myself) for the flip side of the proverbial coin.

 

Thank YOU for understanding, taking time to reply, and stating your position. Through this, I have even a greater admiration & appreciation for you, even if I don't fully agree, but that's what is adult about all of this, communication & common understanding. Appreciate you man!

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The notion that Critical Drinker says “allegedly” racist and misogynistic shit all the time is false and that has nothing to do with a hive mind mentality. He just… does that. The fact that he occasionally says something that’s true really isn’t important. If you’ve got iberico ham in your shit sandwich, you’re still eating shit to get to it. And it’s not necessary because there are other places to get the pork. So if someone repeatedly eats shit to get to the goodies, at some point it’s fair game to call out that shit eating is at least part of the appeal.

 

This isn’t a new tactic or anything, it’s a classic.

 

Also, I would kindly point out that this…

 

6 hours ago, SoberChef said:

Furthermore, I would like to point out that Tyrone Magnus himself, not only follows Drinker, but even uploads reaction vids to ones that CD uploads ... so is it REALLY racist if a black man himself can watch, enjoy, and interact with this clearly NOT racist individual?

 

… is a fairly problematic statement and I’d challenge you to think of why.

 

I know your comment was directed at Wade and not me, and likewise, I don’t like the notion of causing anyone here hurt or harm even if I disagree with them. But again, there are plenty of people who make whatever salient points someone like CD makes that aren’t coated in toxic bullshit. That kernel of truth doesn’t make any of his bullshit less bullshit, and his channel is MOSTLY that bullshit. It’s 2023, even if we give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that the racist and sexist shit he said is just part of his persona… your can’t be THAT online and not realize that you’re going to attract people who believe the racist, sexist shit.

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I have lurked here since it was called "Bad Cartridge", and have never once posted...

 

However, I wanted to chime in and say that I do agree with SoberChef, and have felt a very similar vibe throughout the years.  It truly has become a "hive-mind" in some cases (NOT ALL), and the irony is that in some instances it goes directly to demeaning the "hive-mind"set of the opposing view, not realizing that on merit, the conversation(s) would be viewed in the exact same way!

 

SoberChef, don't feel as if you aren't heard by others!  And trust me, I have strongly disagreed with some of the thoughts you have put on here...  However, it is a shame, in and of itself, that you feel hesitancy to post various comments, because no one comes to your defense.  At the end of the day, this is a message board, and none of the thoughts here are going to have that much sway, one way or the other!

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3 hours ago, Kal-El814 said:

But again, there are plenty of people who make whatever salient points someone like CD makes that aren’t coated in toxic bullshit. 

 

Especially in regard to the now totally beaten-to-death subject of the complete and utter creative/intellectual bankruptcy of much of Disney's output save a few notable exceptions like Andor.

 

3 hours ago, Crst0604 said:

the irony is that in some instances it goes directly to demeaning the "hive-mind"set of the opposing view, not realizing that on merit, the conversation(s) would be viewed in the exact same way!

 

Trust me, that particular irony isn't lost on me at all whatsoever!  I'm just well beyond the point of actually giving a damn :p

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3 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

Especially in regard to the now totally beaten-to-death subject of the complete and utter creative/intellectual bankruptcy of much of Disney's output save a few notable exceptions like Andor.

 

100%. There’s absolutely stuff to criticize about Disney in general, or to focus more on CD again, Captain Marvel specifically. And it’s so fucking easy to do that without unhinged, sexist rants about Brie Larson or “forced representation.” CD is not an idiot. So he’s either sincere when he posts that shit, or he’s “trolling” and doing it “ironically” which isn’t much better.

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I like that not being racist or sexist and calling out racist and sexist stuff is now a "hive mind" mentality. I think it says more about the person feeling "persecuted" regarding their abhorrent views than anything about the "hive mind". But of course as usual people like best and soberchef and remarkable riots will ignore our posts and round and round we go.

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I'm not at all familiar with Critical Drinker, but I watched through that one video for the sake of this thread, and I can't say that I find his arguments particularly compelling.

 

There seems to be a disconnect between this idea that Disney is this all-powerful cultural force that is simultaneously an ultra-capitalist machine built to capture every entertainment dollar available and also is somehow purposefully sacrificing creative potential as well as profits at the alter of woke. Trying to build some unified theory of Disney movies failing because of progressive pandering doesn't seem to hold up to much scrutiny for many reasons, but largely because Disney films aren't uniformly failures, certainly not all in the same ways or for the same reasons.

 

Even just this year, you have Quantumania, Dial of Destiny, Elemental, Guardians 3, Little Mermaid, Haunted Mansion, and I'll throw in Avatar 2 since it's still 6th on the highest grossing films of this year. Suggesting that slate represents some kind of purposeful self conflagration in pursuit of progressive ideals ignores the successes they've had, the myriad reasons that the films may have suffered either financially or creatively, and the context of those releases in the wider industry.

 

Ant-Man grossed very similarly to its predecessors, despite being the worst in the series and super hero films in general experiencing something of a slump. Dial of Destiny was a box office failure and suffered from a pandemic budget related budget bloat, but the film isn't half bad, and while it's pointed to as part of this supposed self sabotage, no evidence of why that would be are given. Elemental certainly suffered from poor marketing, but it's become something of a bounce back success despite Disney's fumbles. Haunted Mansion seems to be a bad movie released at completely the wrong time. The Little Mermaid, supposedly the poster child for progressive failures, seems to be firmly mediocre in both critical reception and at the box office. No, it didn't achieve the runaway success of The Lion King, but neither was it as poorly received as Dumbo or Pinocchio, neither of which seem to come up when referencing how poorly Disney has treated beloved properties from their past (presumably because their issues aren't related to race or women and therefore don't count). Guardians 3 doesn't make an appearance in the video, presumably because as a commercial and critical success, it doesn't fit the narrative.

 

Then you have freaking Avatar 2 (also conveniently left out), the most unapologetically political film that Disney has released in recent memory that also happens to be the number 3 grossing film of all time and was nominated for best picture. Sure, you can argue that Cameron, not "Disney" had control of that film, or that it succeeded for other reasons, but then you're conceding either that progressive ideals have an audience (or at least don't necessarily scare audiences away) and/or that there isn't a consistent company wide Disney agenda that makes terrible creative decisions based on politics.

 

I'm not arguing that Disney doesn't react to public outcry or that they don't champion causes they think make themselves look good. I won't argue that Disney corporate is uniformly hands off with their content or has never meddled with a film in ways that end up being jarring to viewers. I'm not arguing that hamfisted moralizing has never made a movie worse or that Disney has always done proud to their source materials. What I am arguing is that there doesn't seem to be a significant correlation between this supposed pandering and an individual films' success or failure either commercially or creatively. Film making is a complicated business, and the ways and reasons they succeed or fail are usually complicated. For every woke Disney film that failed commercially, there's another that made tons of money; for each one that was a creative failure, there's another that was well loved by critics, audiences, or both. Some of them are box office success and critical failures, others the reverse, others still succeed or fail in both regards. None of it is consistent with the overly simplistic culture war narrative advanced in that video.

 

If you want an entertaining take on these issues, just watch The Other Two season 3.

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1 hour ago, TwinIon said:

Haunted Mansion seems to be a bad movie released at completely the wrong time.

 

Just want to ask. Who thought Haunted Mansion would be a great July movie? Just...what? I can imagine that the movie being subpar meant that Disney didn't really want to put it up against Five Nights at Freddy's, but come on. Just slot it in a couple weeks earlier.

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Personally, I always hate changes. Don't like race or gender swaps, don't like "self-censorship" to make something more palatable to a Western audience, and I hate localization that changes names and meanings. Don't change shit. Most people know my stance on the FF7 """remake""". All I want for the media I consume is to maintain the vision of it I have - should it be based on something.

 

Of course, I have to know about the changes and how it originally was to generally give a shit.

 

When I see the Snow White stuff, I think it's stupid, but 1. I don't give a shit about Snow White and 2. It is SO different from what I can tell that I don't think I would even be mad if I did care about Snow White. It's so different that I can just go "Oh I'm not interested in that" and pretty much ignore it completely. That's what happened with the witcher show for me after Season 1. While I liked season 1 well enough, I didn't have much interest in season 2 and I never watched after season 1. It sucks that the witcher show wasn't what I wanted but oh well.

 

It's not necessarily about the integrity of the original, but how it stacks up to my perception. CHANGE BAD (unless I want it :blush:)

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I don’t think it’s possible to not be of a hive mind somewhat when it comes to accepting general reality or not. It’s probably always been like this, people believing in magic and witches and ghosts and monsters etc etc. People who don’t accept reality as truth will always consider the side that does “sheep” or a “hive mind” and vise versa. I don’t think there is anything wrong with agreeing to live in the same universe as a large group of other people. 

 

Why some people are so easily trapped into fantasy land, I have my guesses, but I do believe there are some exceptions.

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2 hours ago, Bacon said:

Personally, I always hate changes.

 

See, me, I WANT the changes. What's the point of a remake of it changes nothing? The originals aren't going anywhere, so make some changes to at least make the update worthwhile. That's why Mulan was the most interesting remake, but then Disney fucked it up by not giving us a real wuxia remake.

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9 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

What's the point of a remake of it changes nothing?

I mean, I expect some changes in remakes of video games, but just graphics, music, and QoL. I just want to replay the game with modern standards. A remaster doesn't change the graphics enough see LoZ: TP. Like, REmake is a prime example of what I want in a Remake. The changes outside of the visuals aren't that drastic. As I said,

 

Quote

It's not necessarily about the integrity of the original, but how it stacks up to my perception. CHANGE BAD (unless I want it :blush:)

 

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34 minutes ago, Bacon said:

I mean, I expect some changes in remakes of video games, but just graphics, music, and QoL. I just want to replay the game with modern standards. A remaster doesn't change the graphics enough see LoZ: TP. Like, REmake is a prime example of what I want in a Remake. The changes outside of the visuals aren't that drastic. As I said,

 

Games are a different story. I'm right there with you on games. I love Skies of Arcadia, but there are some real QoL changes that game could use if I were to werr to play through it again.

 

Movies are static, though. I don't see what benefit there would be to just remake an older movie unless there are some changes being introduced to make the story an actual retelling. Everything should be up for change as long as you don't break the spirit of the original. At that point you may as well make something new. For these live action remakes, that could mean reinterpreting classics in new genre or even changing the setting it time. Again, Mulan as a classic everyone is flying around on wires wuxia would have been very cool. I was happy with Cruela as a prequel, though unhappy we didn't get to see her fully spiral out of control. She got close, but Disney just had to reign it in. Like, I think I would have more enjoyed Beauty and the Beast if the movie refocused on the prince's debauchery, fall, and redemption.

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29 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

Games are a different story. I'm right there with you on games. I love Skies of Arcadia, but there are some real QoL changes that game could use if I were to werr to play through it again.

 

Movies are static, though. I don't see what benefit there would be to just remake an older movie unless there are some changes being introduced to make the story an actual retelling. Everything should be up for change as long as you don't break the spirit of the original. At that point you may as well make something new. For these live action remakes, that could mean reinterpreting classics in new genre or even changing the setting it time. Again, Mulan as a classic everyone is flying around on wires wuxia would have been very cool. I was happy with Cruela as a prequel, though unhappy we didn't get to see her fully spiral out of control. She got close, but Disney just had to reign it in. Like, I think I would have more enjoyed Beauty and the Beast if the movie refocused on the prince's debauchery, fall, and redemption.

Well, I don't have an answer to movie remakes as I've never seen a movie remake. I mean, I have seen movie remakes, but it's one of those things like, "It was a movie from the 60s that I've never heard of." It was always something I learned after the fact. When it comes to movies, I literally just don't watch remakes of them. Movies are different than games as most movies age very well seeing as it is only something you watch. A remake of a movie is just a waste of money in my eyes and I'm never going to watch it.

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21 minutes ago, Bacon said:

Movies are different than games as most movies age very well seeing as it is only something you watch. A remake of a movie is just a waste of money in my eyes and I'm never going to watch it.

 

That's basically my take. I've skipped all the Disney remakes that didn't seem like they weren't trying to be something new, so that's the vast majority of them. The only exception being Beaty and the Beast because my kids really wanted to watch it. I have zero interest in the Moana remake, but I would have probably been down for a prequel with The Rock or a sequel with Auli'i Cravalho.

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12 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

I like that not being racist or sexist and calling out racist and sexist stuff is now a "hive mind" mentality. I think it says more about the person feeling "persecuted" regarding their abhorrent views than anything about the "hive mind". But of course as usual people like best and soberchef and remarkable riots will ignore our posts and round and round we go.

 

I personally do not find myself to be racist nor sexist, however I do understand that between my vocabulary & mentality of what a man SHOULD be, alongside other factors beyond my control (location of where I was raised for instance) may end up coming off as such to those who don't know me any more than I know any of you. It is what it is, you cannot parse out tone through mere text. That being said, I do believe that the new way to cause division within our country is further pressing upon racial issues as well as incorporating LGBT... as yet another way to cause sub-division within ourselves & keep us at one another's throats. These types of things honestly don't enter into my mind nor day to day life as I lead it, so to see SO many people pissing and moaning about such issues, just doesn't affect me so I keep it pushing.

 

As for CD, sure I've come across with vitriolic shielding as it were for the guy, bottom line & what first attracted me, was his humor! He's funny as shit, snarky, a bit assholish, I jive with that type of humor. Humor itself is subjective & I know for damn sure that much of what I enjoy & find to be outright hysterical to me, most others think it not to be quite as so.

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