Movies Peter Dinklage criticizes the upcoming remake of Snow White

[Greatoneshere]

2 hours ago, SoberChef said:

I personally do not find myself to be racist nor sexist, however I do understand that between my vocabulary & mentality of what a man SHOULD be, alongside other factors beyond my control (location of where I was raised for instance) may end up coming off as such to those who don't know me any more than I know any of you. It is what it is, you cannot parse out tone through mere text. That being said, I do believe that the new way to cause division within our country is further pressing upon racial issues as well as incorporating LGBT... as yet another way to cause sub-division within ourselves & keep us at one another's throats. These types of things honestly don't enter into my mind nor day to day life as I lead it, so to see SO many people pissing and moaning about such issues, just doesn't affect me so I keep it pushing.

 

This post sort of proves my point about you though. The way you word and phrase the issues people are having with you. You're more worried about "causing division" than standing up for marginalized groups (the only reason there is any division in the first place is because of those unwilling to accept the humanity of marginalized groups, not the other way around, "cruelty is the point" etc). Ignoring serious socio-political issues because it doesn't affect you, and categorizing those who care as "pissing and moaning" diminishes the suffering of people who are women, minorities, or LGBTQIA+ who need people to fight for them every day. I think you really need to reflect on why people who otherwise enjoy your posts on these boards have taken such issue with you when it suddenly comes to moral and social issues. Or don't! But you definitely don't sound like a sympathetic voice, but rather a negative, apathetic one. To me it's super weird you don't care about these issues, you don't see why they're a big deal, you don't see why people make a big deal about it, etc. 

[Keyser_Soze]

I would also be careful about calling out the "hive mind" when maybe there are more POC inside the hive than you realize. A lot of people can speak from experience the hate they've experienced being in a marginalized group. It is only natural for them to want to fight for equality. Luckily in my life I've had people stand up for me when something hateful was said, but not everyone gets that luxury. It costs you nothing to support these groups so there's no reason to be on the fence about it. It's more questionable if you don't.

[SoberChef]

5 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

This post sort of proves my point about you though. The way you word and phrase the issues people are having with you. You're more worried about "causing division" than standing up for marginalized groups (the only reason there is any division in the first place is because of those unwilling to accept the humanity of marginalized groups, not the other way around, "cruelty is the point" etc). Ignoring serious socio-political issues because it doesn't affect you, and categorizing those who care as "pissing and moaning" diminishes the suffering of people who are women, minorities, or LGBTQIA+ who need people to fight for them every day. I think you really need to reflect on why people who otherwise enjoy your posts on these boards have taken such issue with you when it suddenly comes to moral and social issues. Or don't! But you definitely don't sound like a sympathetic voice, but rather a negative, apathetic one. To me it's super weird you don't care about these issues, you don't see why they're a big deal, you don't see why people make a big deal about it, etc. 

 

Yes actually I am apathetic BECAUSE those issues don't impact me. I'm more worried about my sick wife, work that's continued to devolve into BS, bills, you know, those things that matter to me. I've come to my own conclusions about these cultural issues A LONG FUCKING TIME AGO! Don't hate others for zero reason, don't steal/rape/murder, truly don't care who someone's fucking if I'm not their partner nor falling into that which they are attracted to. A lot of this equates to minding my own business, which in this day & age happens to be a thought that got chucked out with the proverbial bath water.

 

3 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said:

I would also be careful about calling out the "hive mind" when maybe there are more POC inside the hive than you realize. A lot of people can speak from experience the hate they've experienced being in a marginalized group. It is only natural for them to want to fight for equality. Luckily in my life I've had people stand up for me when something hateful was said, but not everyone gets that luxury. It costs you nothing to support these groups so there's no reason to be on the fence about it. It's more questionable if you don't.

 

That last line right there, while its slightly more reasonable than most I've seen, it's still the whole "if you're not with us you're with them" mentality. Bro I don't even play sports, so why am I trying out for a team in my 40s?

 

I guess from now on I'll do my best to be as non-political as possible ... which is hard since seemingly EVERYTHING can be turned to this & that itself is where a large chunk of my apathy arrives from.

[Keyser_Soze]

2 hours ago, SoberChef said:

I guess from now on I'll do my best to be as non-political as possible ... which is hard since seemingly EVERYTHING can be turned to this & that itself is where a large chunk of my apathy arrives from.

 

I didn't make that comment to silence you. People have differing opinions and that is fine and makes things worth discussing. The last thing you should do is tuck your views away. It's fine if you don't want to have those conversation but disappointing if you're doing it because you think you're being pushed away.

 

Too often I see defeatist attitudes around here, people feeling like they can't discuss something because no one will agree with them. But we can't have the discussion if you keep it to yourself.

 

Going back to the hive mind thing, I think a better description is melting pot. This board has a lot of different people who have a baseline system of what they believe in but can also bring refreshing viewpoints to the table. Think of it like Wade invited everyone to Thanksgiving dinner and  we all have something fascinating to offer, but when crazy uncle Joe comes in and says, "the moon is made out of green cheese and I won't discuss it further" that kind of puts a damper on the party. Tell me more about the green cheese.

[Greatoneshere]

4 hours ago, SoberChef said:

Yes actually I am apathetic BECAUSE those issues don't impact me. I'm more worried about my sick wife, work that's continued to devolve into BS, bills, you know, those things that matter to me. I've come to my own conclusions about these cultural issues A LONG FUCKING TIME AGO! Don't hate others for zero reason, don't steal/rape/murder, truly don't care who someone's fucking if I'm not their partner nor falling into that which they are attracted to. A lot of this equates to minding my own business, which in this day & age happens to be a thought that got chucked out with the proverbial bath water.

 

This is . . . not healthy or a good life mentality. Typically a person is able to empathize and care about problems beyond those immediately in their own life. That you can't seem to make this distinction and instead believe they have to be mutually exclusive, i.e.: "I only care about things that affect me, and I am, for some reason, unable to care about anything that doesn't immediately affect me" strikes me as you being an incredibly selfish and callous individual. You're an apathetic person turning a willful blind eye to the rampant problems and societal issues plaguing us and then going: "I'm minding my own business" without understanding that now and throughout history, a person who "minds their own business" and turns a blind eye to these issues is one or two steps away from ignorantly and blindly perpetuating it, like you've done with posts and videos in the past and got called out for with the CD videos in this thread. Your neutrality is no neutrality at all, but a mentality that props up proactively bad people by its very nature.

 

No one can just be "neutral" in this world. Almost every action or statement is a political statement. I'm not sure where you lost your empathy but you clearly don't have any for things that aren't personally affecting you, which is very much an alt-right wing person kind of thing to say. The cognitive dissonance you have about yourself is something you should reflect on, I think. Think about how you sound: "you think marginalized groups are just pissing and moaning, and you'd rather ignore them and their plight so you can stop hearing the "pissing and moaning" from those groups, many individuals from those groups who are fighting for their livelihoods or their very lives and all you've got to say is: "I've come to my own conclusions about these cultural issues 'a long time ago'" is an incredibly ignorant thing to say. Why? Because smart people are open to updating their views regularly as times change and new information comes to light. 

 

And this "hive mentality". You keep mentioning it but it's never actually described to me. Please spell out, exactly, WHAT the "hive mentality" is. Because the only "hive" mentality I'm seeing is a bunch of people pointing out your poor and negative rhetoric. When has calling out people for shitty posts, shitty videos, and negative, potentially hurtful rhetoric a "hive" mentality? Please, explain it to me, because I'm not understanding that when a person is being shitty, how it's a hive mentality when that shit is called out? Or is it you don't see how you're being shitty, and that's why you feel it's just a "hive mentality"? Like I said, cognitive dissonance. I'd love an explanation here. You keep talking about "being reasonable". What you don't understand is that when dealing with ignorance, there is no "being reasonable". You just don't see how ignorant your posts now and in the past have been when they cross the political line, and thus only see a "hive" mentality and unreasonable behavior. I want you to imagine, just for a second, what if you are being shitty? And a bunch of us are trying to help you understand how you're perpetuating negative things, and perhaps that makes a lot more sense than a bunch of otherwise reasonable posters for years are suddenly acting out of character. When everyone in the room is calling you an asshole, it's not up to you to say that you aren't, that's up to the room. And when almost the entire room calls you an asshole, you probably are, it's not a "hive" mentality.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

9 hours ago, SoberChef said:

I do believe that the new way to cause division within our country is further pressing upon racial issues as well as incorporating LGBT... as yet another way to cause sub-division within ourselves & keep us at one another's throats...so to see SO many people pissing and moaning about such issues, just doesn't affect me so I keep it pushing.

 

It is very difficult for me to describe how utterly livid reading this made me feel.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

1 hour ago, Keyser_Soze said:

Think of it like Wade invited everyone to Thanksgiving dinner...

 

The best part is that I can "dis-invite" them anytime I want and show them the door.

[Greatoneshere]

11 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

It is very difficult for me to describe how utterly livid reading this made me feel.

 

I am trying very hard to hold back and explain things as best as I can but when I read that . . . yeah.  It's like he doesn't see at all how such casual statements are super flagrant and incredibly ignorant and unkind. The cognitive dissonance is strong with this one.

 

"Hey guys, did you know fighting for marginalized groups' rights creates further division within our country so we should probably stop fighting for their rights since they don't personally affect my life on a day to day level, so stop harassing me with your hive mentality that I should care because I decided a long time ago I'm an asshole and don't care about these issues! And I'll, in addition to that, flagrantly ignore the clear right-wing clickbait within movie and TV Youtube videos that I post from time to time, and just act like all the right wing nonsense seeded throughout the videos I post are not at all a consistent reflection of what I believe and follow." Just incredibly ignorant. The "color" blind and "gender" blind sexists and racists are always the funniest and weirdest ones to me because they truly believe they can be morally neutral on sensitive cultural and social issues, not understanding neutrality is a hurtful position by its very nature when it comes to these things. You can't be neutral on topics that are getting people killed, imprisoned, and hurt because your apathy props up the proactive bad guys. How are adults like him not seeing this?

[Bacon]

I feel that if you are truly apathetic about something you don't really talk about it. Nor would you feel the need to explain yourself or make people understand you position.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

It's perfectly understandable and natural to put a far greater emotional and psychological emphasis on issues that directly impact oneself and those that one loves and cares for - that's absolutely human and faultless.  What's not "faultless" is to be dismissive of the concerns of others because of the relative non-impact upon one's existence and characterize them as "pissing and moaning". 

 

To hell with that.

[Guest]

Empathy is arrogance. We don’t have to act as though we understand how another person feels to appreciate that they feel however they do. 

 

That being said, the video Sober posted…I’ve seen I think two others that he has posted and it is the just a silly attempt at being edgy and offensive. Boring shock jock schtick. And targeting Disney with the accusation of being utterly bankrupt of creative ideas is about the least impressive analysis of the situation you will find. Like, no duhhhh. Every CinemaCon when Disney puts up their slate and 97% is franchise IP, movie lover me dies a little bit more inside. Everybody knows what Disney is doing.

 

But if you’re going to remake old stuff, trying to change things up to attract the global audience of today as opposed to the almost exclusively White American audience for which Walt was making films just makes sense, separate from any moral or ethical views about diversity.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

8 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Empathy is arrogance. We don’t have to act as though we understand how another person feels to appreciate that they feel however they do. 

 

Empathy is perhaps one of the worst ways possible to exercise moral judgments and actions.

 

I will never know what it's like to exist as someone other than a white, heterosexual man so why on Earth would I even begin to evaluate the experiences of others -- especially those from marginalized groups -- and my reactions to those experiences from that perspective?

[Greatoneshere]

47 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Empathy is arrogance. We don’t have to act as though we understand how another person feels to appreciate that they feel however they do. 

 

39 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

Empathy is perhaps one of the worst ways possible to exercise moral judgments and actions.

 

If he can't possibly be empathetic given his frame of reference, he can certainly be sympathetic which he isn't being either, so what difference does it make? No one is saying you make moral judgments based on empathy (or sympathy) alone, but it's a good start. While you are both correct, I think this is a reductive view as to the use of both sympathy and empathy (where applicable) have in engendering positive moral and ethical traits in people (not to exercise moral judgments but to engender a moral judgments and actions). And marking that difference in this conversation is losing the forest with regard to SoberChef for the trees. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

5 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

If he can't possibly be empathetic given his frame of reference, he can certainly be sympathetic which he isn't being either, so what difference does it make? No one is saying you make moral judgments based on empathy (or sympathy), but it's a good start.

 

It really doesn't make a difference at all.  I just happen to subscribe to the notion that neither represent a particularly effective way to exercise moral action because both largely center on "me" rather than on "you".

[Greatoneshere]

Just now, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

It really doesn't make a difference at all.  I just happen to subscribe to the notion that neither represent a particularly effective way to exercise moral action.

 

I agree in that it doesn't represent (on its own) an effective way, but instilling sympathy and empathy in a person helps to create and engender the ability to better exercise moral judgments and actions, they are not the arbiter or determining factor, I agree. A lot goes into a moral or ethical assessment, and these help a person to get there (I think), along with logic, reasoning, etc. 

[SoberChef]

*smells the air* Yep ... definitely white guilt. Literally oozing out of your pores. 

 

Empathy & apathy are entirely separate things, to which I have a deep well for the former and for bull shit, I have ever so miniscule little for the latter.

 

I'll continue on with what I happen to enjoy 😉  

[Greatoneshere]

37 minutes ago, SoberChef said:

*smells the air* Yep ... definitely white guilt. Literally oozing out of your pores. 

 

Empathy & apathy are entirely separate things, to which I have a deep well for the former and for bull shit, I have ever so miniscule little for the latter.

 

I'll continue on with what I happen to enjoy 😉  

 

Well, I'm not white, I'm 100% South Asian, so I'm not sure how that applies. Similarly, you don't seem to have any empathy OR sympathy. As I said, you come off as apathetic (neutral=apathetic, in this case), which is an inherently moral choice on these issues. Not only that, but you watch "edgy" alt-right wing clickbait-y type stuff, which "edgy" in this day and age typically means at least "lightly" racist or "lightly" sexist nonsense. Subversive racism, sexism, etc. is still racism, sexism, etc. You're not even rebutting any points, you're just going: "yep, I'm flagrantly ignorant and choosing to be willfully blind, thank you very much". Which makes you part of the very problem we are discussing about you. This is not the first time you've shown this side of yourself, it comes up rarely but it's come up at least 5-6 other times over the years (that I've seen at least). At first I found it incredibly surprising and alarming (seeing it for the first time years ago), because you otherwise always seemed totally cool, but it's become consistent enough that I'm taking the time on a message board to point this out about you, as others have here in this thread, also on the RFK thread, and in years past. It keeps coming up. That's very consistent. Anyways, I tried, the posts and the content have been appropriately called out, time for me to move on. At the end of the day, you do you. 

 

I mean, it "blows you away" that a conspiracy theory anti-vax nut job like RFK shouldn't be an immediate dead to rights dismissal of his character as a "level headed" person so I don't know what to say.

[Keyser_Soze]

I guess this means Uncle Joe isn't invited to the next Thanksgiving. 😟

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

36 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

I guess this means Uncle Joe isn't invited to the next Thanksgiving. 😟

 

I don't celebrate Thanksgiving anyway.

 

It's an incredibly stupid holiday.

[stepee]

Ohhhh so you have to be white now to have white guilt? NOW who is the racist 

[Spork3245]

32 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

I don't celebrate Thanksgiving anyway.

 

It's an incredibly stupid holiday.

 

Pumpkin pie is pretty good, though

[CitizenVectron]

16 hours ago, SoberChef said:

 

That being said, I do believe that the new way to cause division within our country is further pressing upon racial issues as well as incorporating LGBT... as yet another way to cause sub-division within ourselves & keep us at one another's throats. These types of things honestly don't enter into my mind nor day to day life as I lead it, so to see SO many people pissing and moaning about such issues, just doesn't affect me so I keep it pushing.

 

I don't want to jump to any conclusions about this statement, so I'd like to ask for clarification. Are you saying that the act of pushing constantly for more racial and gender-sexual equality is for the purpose of division (or, at the least, results in it)? The only division I see it causing is the revealing of people who are opposed to these things. 

[Nokra]

I mean, let's just say it is divisive to push for human rights: so what?

 

"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right." -- Isaac Asimov 

[TUFKAK]

Wow, I missed this thread blow up.

Let me just saying, the complaints from those on the right about "hive mind" and group think are absolutely hilarious to me. I have always been far to the left, not as far to the left as I am now, and let me tell you the shit I have heard about me as a result. Un-American, mentally deranged, traitor, f word, communist (guilty now though) etc. At the time I was called Un-American and a traitor, I was in the no shit Marines, these claims were made by some chud mouth breather who never served, because in their minds, only they are "real Americans" and anything outside of that is other. Again, I was called an Un-American traitor by a civilian when I was actively wearing cammies.

Anyone left of fucking Nixon has been insulted and demeaned in this country for years, to the point of outright cancelling, it started long before the Dixie Chicks from them, so to hear them turn around and throw the same claims at us for the shit they've done my entire life is hilarious to me. They have been the hive mind, canceling "others" for as long as I can remember for not conforming to their mold and ideas. Fucking spare me.

I exist in an area, with friends and family that the chuds do not want to exist: my best friend is a gay woman, my niece has two moms (her very existence is fucking divisive to these people), I'm in an open Polyamorous childfree relationship. Me advocating for those closest to me is apparently divisive but the side that doesn't want to see them, isn't. These are real people who matter way more than how chuds feel and I will continue to be blunt and in peoples faces about this because it is real and personal to me. Also my niece is adorable and I love her and her moms, if that's divisive, get rekt. Not directed at anyone in particular here btw, it just made me remember a lot from my past.

Also, why do right wingers care so much about how "men should be" when none of them can ruck a pack. Bonkers to me.

[stepee]

it does gotta suck though when you try to pull the “white guilt” card at a place where you have like a 95/100 chance of getting it right and whiffing so badly 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

My personal reaction is simply to say, "Yes, speaking for myself, you're absolutely correct.  Now what?"

[TUFKAK]

9 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

My personal reaction is simply to say, "Yes, speaking for myself, you're absolutely correct.  Now what?"

I keep in mind something a black trans girl said to me here in SF.

 

“You’re a beautiful white man born into a world that was made for you” how I couldn’t have any “white guilt” knowing that eludes me; She is 100% right. People who don’t have any worry me.

[SoberChef]

 

[Kamusha]

Calling empathy arrogance has to be the most male opinion I have ever read  Like it’s so unintentionally satirical that it sounds like something Ken would say in the Barbie movie.

[Bacon]

Alright. I have respected the vibes in this thread long enough.

 

Oh, @stepee!!!!!!!!! Sorry to disturb your wallet, but it's looking like a game is in my future. Maybe I should call on @TUFKAK this time. I got one other user on speed dial should you guys not want to step up to the plate.

 

 

JK ... Unless...

 

[best3444]

36 minutes ago, Bacon said:

Alright. I have respected the vibes in this thread long enough.

 

Oh, @stepee!!!!!!!!! Sorry to disturb your wallet, but it's looking like a game is in my future. Maybe I should call on @TUFKAK this time. I got one other user on speed dial should you guys not want to step up to the plate.

 

 

JK ... Unless...

 

 

What game do you want? 

[Bacon]

4 minutes ago, best3444 said:

 

What game do you want? 

I want to pre-order Lies of P. Not sure if on Steam or PS5. Btw, you are the other user I have on speed dial

[best3444]

7 minutes ago, Bacon said:

I want to pre-order Lies of P. Not sure if on Steam or PS5. Btw, you are the other user I have on speed dial

 

Find out what it's on. I got you.

[Bacon]

5 minutes ago, best3444 said:

 

Find out what it's on. I got you.

Fuck yeah! Thanks!

Pretty sure I'll want it on the PS5. I think that's what I have the demo installed on.

 

E:

I want to test out the PC version, but the demo of the PS5 had solid performance so I don't think I can go wrong unless my PC underperforms.

[Keyser_Soze]

Do you have gamepass? You could test Lies of P out on your PC with that.