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Dave Chappelle The Closer Netflix special


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3 minutes ago, johnny said:

this special was funny for a while i thought. and then he kept going on about the gay and trans stuff, called himself a terf, and it quickly became uncomfortable and not funny 

 

Yeah. It’s wild to me that he’s gone from not renewing Chapelle’s Show because he thought people were laughing at the wrong stuff (I’m paraphrasing) to getting on stage and calling himself a TERF and saying that gender is a fact. Eat shit.

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I continue to be confused as to why in this one particular category (gender) one is whatever they feel they are but not so in other like categories. Especially in the context of viewing gender as a social construct, the most obvious of parallels sitting right before our eyes every day.

 

That being said, be nice to people even when you disagree with their point of view. It costs you nothing.

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21 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

I continue to be confused as to why in this one particular category (gender) one is whatever they feel they are but not so in other like categories. Especially in the context of viewing gender as a social construct, the most obvious of parallels sitting right before our eyes every day.

 

That being said, be nice to people even when you disagree with their point of view. It costs you nothing.

 

I’m not aware that racial dysmorphia is a thing, whereas gender dysmorphia is. I’m not educated enough to have any kind of speculation as to why that is, but it seems to generally be true.

 

Separate from that I’d speculate that there’s inherently less gatekeeping with gender identity when compared to racial identity based on the notion that gender is expressed across all races. There’s obviously a lot of gatekeeping with gender too, but it usually reads differently to me at any rate.

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5 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

I’m not aware that racial dysmorphia is a thing, whereas gender dysmorphia is. I’m not educated enough to have any kind of speculation as to why that is, but it seems to generally be true.

 

Separate from that I’d speculate that there’s inherently less gatekeeping with gender identity when compared to racial identity based on the notion that gender is expressed across all races. There’s obviously a lot of gatekeeping with gender too, but it usually reads differently to me at any rate.


It is certainly a thing, and is especially common amongst biracial people who often grow up in a culture that leans more towards one side of their biological reality than the other and often doesn’t neatly align with societal/communal expectations around how one ought to be given their appearance.

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3 minutes ago, sblfilms said:


It is certainly a thing, and is especially common amongst biracial people who often grow up in a culture that leans more towards one side of their biological reality than the other and often doesn’t neatly align with societal/communal expectations around how one ought to be given their appearance.

 

That’s fair. As someone who’s experienced neither of the kinds of dysmorphia we’re talking about here, I’d assumed they were different enough as to not “be the same.” I’m aware of multiracial people having struggles based on that but nothing I’ve read came off the same as though they felt they were assigned the wrong race at birth, which a feeling that some people do seem to have with gender. Not saying those feelings don’t exist just that I’ve not come across them.

 

Not attempting to split hairs or anything, again, as both of these situations are not part of my personal experience so I should probably be more judicious about my language.

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2 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

That’s fair. As someone who’s experienced neither of the kinds of dysmorphia we’re talking about here, I’d assumed they were different enough as to not “be the same.” I’m aware of multiracial people having struggles based on that but nothing I’ve read came off the same as though they felt they were assigned the wrong race at birth, which a feeling that some people do seem to have with gender. Not saying those feelings don’t exist just that I’ve not come across them.

 

Not attempting to split hairs or anything, again, as both of these situations are not part of my personal experience so I should probably be more judicious about my language.


Just to be clear I don’t mean to say they are same in kind in regards how one feels internally, even for those who experience racial dysmorphia. Just that characteristics like race and gender themselves are same in kind but are treated very differently in this particular regard and I’m not really sure why. Maybe it is something that will change over time.

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1 hour ago, sblfilms said:


Just to be clear I don’t mean to say they are same in kind in regards how one feels internally, even for those who experience racial dysmorphia. Just that characteristics like race and gender themselves are same in kind but are treated very differently in this particular regard and I’m not really sure why. Maybe it is something that will change over time.

 

I can't speak with complete authority on this but my understanding is that with gender it's also genetic/DNA in nature, in the sense that the chromosomes are literally different and hence why the person "assigned the wrong gender" can't help but want to be in the proper body/gender, they can't help it because on a genetic level they are being "told" to be a woman/man and to switch. A geneticist explained all the science once in a debate with some idiot who said that gender is a choice and this doctor was like: "it's really not a choice" and went on to explain the science, he was very pro-transgender.

 

Whereas with race I do not believe their is any sort of genetic or DNA pull to be one race or the other. In the case of gender dysmorphia, it can't be helped. Again, that was my understanding of it but I could be way wrong here but it made sense to me at the time.

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3 hours ago, johnny said:

this special was funny for a while i thought. and then he kept going on about the gay and trans stuff, called himself a terf, and it quickly became uncomfortable and not funny 

 

This is my take on the special as well. I'm a huge Dave Chappelle fan and he has said mostly very smart things in the past. But I remember his stupid opinion on this subject in the last special and I am willing to go pretty far with a comedian for some dark and inappropriate jokes but man the back half of the special.

 

The special started off really good and at first there was a lot of funny stuff and some decent commentary on how different groups or tribes are treated differently and how intersectionality isn't addressed often enough.

 

But then he just went on and on and on about transgender and gay people. My sense is he doesn't necessarily hate them in general, but white gay and transgender people specifically. Not saying it's right, but that was my sense of it. But it dragged the whole special down. I don't know why he has such a problem with such a small community that normally struggles mightily for what they've achieved up to this point, and Chappelle just seems bitter and resentful that because white people were a part of it, transgender rights moved a lot faster than black rights, which bothers him I guess (and not entirely sure if we can quantify that) but my God man, let it be. 

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There is definitely a cultural component to either gender or racial dysmporphia. For example, trans women are much more common than trans men. I've always been curious as to why that is, and the main reason that comes to mind is that we, at least in the western world, generally are much more accepting of girls who act like boys when they're growing up than we are of boys who act like girls, if that makes sense. So even girls who have some level of gender dysmorphia might be more likely to learn to be comfortable in their own skin, regardless of gender, whereas those assigned a dick at birth face much more pressure to be a manly man. I don't know, I don't know if there have been any actual studies done on that part, but it makes sense.

 

As for racial stuff, I think it's mostly because "whiteness" is exclusionary whereas all other races are inclusionary. For example, Barack Obama has a black father and a white mother. Shouldn't that mean that he is both equally black and white? Society says no, he's just black. Barack Obama can't walk around claiming to be white without everyone going ":raisedbrow:" even though he is just as much white as he is black. Trevor Noah (who is also half white) talks in his book about growing up feeling like he wasn't accepted by white people because, well... South Africa, but at the same time the kids in his neihgborhood kind of treated him as "the white kid."

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I thought it was funny in a few spots, but mostly it was a bit on the boring side. It felt like he was retreading what he’d already done with the same story. With the point of the story not being “let me tell you about this funny time when…” but was yet again “I’m not transphobic, because…”

 

it felt like he didn’t really have enough material for another special, but did one anyways. I don’t know. Maybe he just doesn’t have anything else to say. 

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It's worth pointing out that gender and sex are two different things, yet are often used interchangeably to the point where it makes discussion of gender itself confusing. Sex is something that is biological that is determined by our bodies. Gender is a set of characteristics that are often associated with a particular sex. So while gender and sex are similar in relation, they are different things and can be separate. When someone identifies with a gender that does match their biological sex, then they are trans.

 

Contrary to what many may think, trans people aren't trying to change the definition of biological sex, but we are spreading awareness to what gender is and how one can personally define it. So when Chappelle says things like "gender is a fact!", he just further outs himself as ignorant on some pretty basic elements of trans discourse.

 

Anyways, Chappelle has always had a weird ax-to-grind when it comes to the LGBT community. Even back in the day he used to joke that being black is worse than gay because you can't hide that you're black. He still won't drop his proverbial ax to grind after all these years, and has even quadrupled down. If anyone is shocked that he's this obsessed with LGBT people after these years, it's important to know that hatred itself is an obsession. Hatred isn't something you just casually do, it's something you think about constantly and defines your though process. It's why JK Rowling can't just give it up after all of this bad press towards her.

 

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I watched most of it. It started out funny but once he went to the trans material it got uncomfortable. He wouldn't stop on the subject and his views are really fucked up. The audience loved it but I thought he was just being completely inappropriate and ignorant. I stopped watching. I never was a big Chappelle fan to begin with but it seemed like he had no material for the show. He's an ass imo after watching that. 

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There are few things as exhausting as a millionaire being aggrieved about cancel culture in the middle of a special he likely got paid millions to make. How out of touch can you be? Did the checks bounce? Are the people in the audience tossing tomatoes? You’re not cancelled, shut the fuck up. 

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He does have a point about racism and performative wokeness from LGBTQA-identifying folks, especially with younger generations online (it's popping up more and more on twitter and in some twitch chats, good lord). It's just too bad he's also one of the last comics who should be the one to make that point.

 

Half of what makes a bit good/funny is the quality of the jokes, the other half is the context of who's telling them, and both are out the window here. It's gross and sad - not only because of the bigotry on display but how the optics of it might harm intersectional LGBTQA+ communities, many religious-identifying black americans, etc

 

One good thing about it though: While it's reasonable to not empathize with Chappelle for being a terf, his new shit whether intentionally or not  also seems pretty effective at exposing homophobes, white performative woke patrol, and other terfs out there. ^_^

 

Regarding gender: Basically gender can have a biological component (the extent of which is still unknown) and also environmental, and how it's expressed is more complex than just a sliding scale of masculine or feminine. We're still figuring some of this out and are at the mercy of binary and heteronormative systemic constructs that currently exist which kind of dictate how it gets expressed, which is why gender expression often still seems so binary now, even among the GNC population.

 

This isn't to be confused with otherkin (things like identifying as an octopus, xbox or a table) which is more on the fetish spectrum than anything considered a valid/sound expression of gender (which should be obvious, but still worth mentioning since it remains a debated topic for some reason).

 

Political twitch, despite some issues - mainly with some resident grifters (but not many) and the terminally online weebs among the audience who's responses can influence the content - I think is generally consistent about keeping fresh and current understandings of stuff like this in the lexicon.  Ahrelevent had a very insightful deep dive on gender in march.  Unfortunately there's no recording of it that I know of. Destiny's tackled it pretty well but that was years ago. What I've watched of this Primecayes broadcast seems fairly current, thought-provoking and fun 

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On 10/11/2021 at 5:02 PM, skillzdadirecta said:
d9db207d006cb7f0a96a843bd4b962ef
WWW.YAHOO.COM

Streamer clarifies that software engineer Terra Field was not suspended for tweeting about Chappelle's comedy special "The Closer"

 

Just an FYI this person didn't crash anything. The meeting was a online meeting that she was invited to attend.  She has been reinstated at her job.

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, Jason said:

 

 

What a surprise, wealthy people expect freedom to mean freedom from consequences, freedom from repercussions, freedom from having to hear that people might object to what they’re saying.

 

Not only is Dave FREE to say this stuff, he’s RICHER for it.

 

EDIT - Always relevant when people cry “cancel culture!”

 

free_speech_2x.png

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36 minutes ago, SimpleG said:

Just an FYI this person didn't crash anything. The meeting was a online meeting that she was invited to attend.  She has been reinstated at her job.

 

 

 


The email doesn’t say they were invited to attend, just that the person who reinstated them understands why the employee thought they could.

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25 minutes ago, sblfilms said:


The email doesn’t say they were invited to attend, just that the person who reinstated them understands why the employee thought they could.

The last line specifically says the  director shared the link with her for the meeting.  She was invited even if it was mistake. 

 

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42 minutes ago, SimpleG said:

The last line specifically says the  director shared the link with her for the meeting.  She was invited even if it was mistake. 

 


You are reading something into it that isn’t there because you presume Netflix works like most companies :p 

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3 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

If someone shares a link for a virtual meeting with me, I don't see any other way than to interpret that as an invitation.


They didn’t share it in the way you are thinking, at least as described by another Netflix employee who also received the communication in which the link was a part. Netflix own response seems to corroborate the other employee’s explanation as they said there were going to create new guidance to help clarify which meetings are for which people.

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4 hours ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

What a surprise, wealthy people expect freedom to mean freedom from consequences, freedom from repercussions, freedom from having to hear that people might object to what they’re saying.

 

Not only is Dave FREE to say this stuff, he’s RICHER for it.

 

EDIT - Always relevant when people cry “cancel culture!”

 

free_speech_2x.png

 

This comic is of course correct, but I think a  lot of opponents readily admit this fact, but further hold the position that "freedom of speech" is a more philosophical stance that asks people to respond to words only with their own words, rather than seeking other punitive measures. I suspect Chappelle is one of those people, although I haven't watched the latest special.

 

Now, I disagree with that philosophical position: I think we ought to respond in more significant ways to certain kinds of speech. I even think in the age of misinformation that the government needs to tighten free speech rights to some degree too. But I think it's important to be cognizant of the opposing position.

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What other punitive measures are people seeking though?  People are calling Dave an asshole and a bigot, some are saying they won’t pay for Netflix and others are encouraging others to not pay for Netflix too and… that’s it?  
 

Unless I’ve missed it, no one sane is saying he should be beaten, jailed, forced to apologize at gun point, expelled from the country, robbed of every penny he owns, whatever.  The cancel culture Chappelle is bitching about is just having to be aware of the fact that people think the things he says suck and they don’t want to support it with money.  

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