Television Dave Chappelle The Closer Netflix special

[Guest]

1 minute ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

I would have a problem in the sense that I wouldn't approve of the decision if it happened, but not in the idea of them putting pressure.

 

 

[LazyPiranha]

I think there’s a huge difference between the things we’re talking about and you’re mixing the two of them.

 

To the best of my knowledge, the people complaining about Chappelle and this special have so far only said they won’t support Netflix or anyone that hires Chappelle in the future.  Your examples of harassing who you lease your theater from and Onlyfans being delisted are entirely different situations.  Unless I’m mistaken, no one is harassing AWS to take Netflix off of their servers and wipe them from the net.  

[CitizenVectron]

44 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

 

 

 

🤷‍♀️

 

People can pressure companies all they want. If the company gives in to something stupid then I'll be upset, but there's nothing wrong with it from a legal or moral perspective. In the case of the hosting for porn, I don't know how effective a letter-writing campaign would be if there aren't people boycotting who actively give money to the hosting provider. That's why usually it's big advertisers pulling from places that convinces companies to change their ways. People get mad and the companies don't want to be tied to the other company.

[skillzdadirecta]

 

Trans Netflix employees will stage walkout to protest controversial Chappelle special

WWW.LATIMES.COM

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Trans Netflix employees and allies will take 'a day of rest' Oct. 20 in protest of their company's decision to release Dave Chappelle's 'The Closer.'

 

[Jason]

 

[Kal-El814]

Netflix spent >$24M on The Closer??? Jesus fucking Christ.

[Kal-El814]

The actual cancel culture I’m worried about:

 

 

 

[Kamusha]

They should be firing whoever is in charge of crisis management. This whole thing just looks really bad.

[Jason]

[SuperSpreader]

10 hours ago, Kal-El814 said:

The actual cancel culture I’m worried about:

 

 

 

Oooo I'm gonna have to cancel Netflix

[Guest]

Netflix’s Ted Sarandos Defends Dave Chappelle Special in Staff Memo: ‘Artistic Freedom’ Is Different for Stand-Up (EXCLUSIVE)

VARIETY.COM

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Netflix co-CEO Ted Sarandos has addressed staff members on the streamer's controversial new Dave Chappelle stand-up special, "The Closer."

 

Quote

Several of you have also asked where we draw the line on hate. We don’t allow titles Netflix that are designed to incite hate or violence, and we don’t believe The Closer crosses that line.

This is one of the key things to me in regards to how people respond to mean words. Those who are pushing to limit this, even in the context of pressuring firms like Netflix not to produce or distribute content, are making the claim that such mean words have a causal relationship to violence and there simply is no basis for this claim.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Oh no - I'm making no such claim at all.

 

I just want to silence those with whom I am in opposition, actual harm or not.  Just as I expect/hope they would do to me.

[Paperclyp]

This thread was a refreshing reminder of why I continue to hang around this forum. Lots of thoughtful and civil discourse. 

[heydude93]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AbsolutSurgen]

I've never been a Chappelle fan - his brand of comedy has never been my jam.

Because of the explosion of news, I decided to watch it.  It has moments that were incredibly funny, followed by complete awkward unfunny moments.

However, it never approached a line than it needs to be censored.

If you don't like Chappelle -- then don't watch his specials.  If enough people agree with you, they won't get made anymore.

[skillzdadirecta]

3 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I've never been a Chappelle fan - his brand of comedy has never been my jam.

Because of the explosion of news, I decided to watch it.  It has moments that were incredibly funny, followed by complete awkward unfunny moments.

However, it never approached a line than it needs to be censored.

If you don't like Chappelle -- then don't watch his specials.  If enough people agree with you, they won't get made anymore.

It's called The Closer because it was his last special with Netflix anyway. People protesting want it taken off the platform.

[Greatoneshere]

He called himself a fucking TERF on a Netflix special, that is incendiary and exclusionary. I mean what the fuck. No one is arguing anything about biological differences or what it means to be a woman. This is not complicated. I think it is VERY interesting he selected Detroit as the venue (he says it's to make up for shit talking Detroit in one of his last specials, but I ain't buying it, this shit would have got boo'ed in Philadelphia). 

 

I can still like Dave Chappelle and still disagree with him on this issue. The fact it has to be all or nothing with people is bizarre to me. But TERF bullshit needs to be cancelled. It is an exclusionary way to describe a gender with no male equivalent, whilst making terms monolithic (male/female) that aren't. That's my uneducated take anyway.

 

At the end of the day, to me, all problems are about bullying and to me what Chappelle is doing seems like bullying. There's no need to muddy the waters or lose the forest for the trees here. I would like to see someone explain to me how someone with his fame, power, and money isn't bullying a minority group here with his comments. Engaging in a very nuanced conversation with the LGBT+ community does not need to occur over a one-sided comedian stand up special.

 

Like, there's so much to make fun of out there. Remember how great Chappelle's jokes about white people were? There was hardly any of that here. "Sorry officer, I didn't know I couldn't do that" from an old special is a million times better than using a platform to call yourself a TERF. Am I saying ban him? Not necessarily. Am I saying he is wrong? Yes, I am.

[AbsolutSurgen]

2 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

It's called The Closer because it was his last special with Netflix anyway. People protesting want it taken off the platform.

I know.  Censoring and "taken off the platform" are functionally the same thing.

[Guest]

20 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

He called himself a fucking TERF on a Netflix special, that is incendiary and exclusionary.

I believe what he actually said is in light of Trans activists creating the term TERF just to “win arguments” with the sorts of feminists who believe biological sex is more important than gender identity, he sides with “Team TERF”. 
 

In fact most who are labeled TERFs believe gender itself is a system of oppression by males against females.

[Kal-El814]

On 10/17/2021 at 10:10 AM, AbsolutSurgen said:

However, it never approached a line than it needs to be censored.

 

I accept that there’s an extent to which this will come off as splitting hairs.

 

That said…

 

I don’t think he should be censored. If he wants to get on a stage and say he’s on team TERF he’s well within his rights to do that. He should be getting dragged for saying it, Netflix should be dragged for giving him a platform to say it, and relentlessly mocked for spending $24M on the affair.

 

Aside from it being a shitty thing to say, it’s fucking disappointing. His earlier special where he talked about George Floyd shows that he’s still got legitimate grievances, that he’s still insightful in some areas, and that he’s still got a point of view that’s worth hearing.

 

There’s nothing that seems to make successful comedians bristle more than the possibility of being “censored.” Many of them seem to buy into the notion that if they can’t say everything they’re at risk for being told that they can’t say anything. But that’s bullshit. The difference between being told you shouldn’t say something and that you cannot say something is not merely semantic. Dave is a black man; despite being rich, successful, and a celebrity, there are concerns he has that I, as a white, less successful, and non-famous person, will never have and quite frankly cannot ever fully understand.

 

Likewise as a cishet man, there are things about being trans that I will never fully be able to grasp. That doesn’t prohibit me from talking about trans issues or my right to speak about them without being censored. But if I was to use a public platform to speak about those things loudly and wrongly, I’d expect to be called out. Or if I used that or any platform to announce I’m a fucking TERF, I should expect the same.

 

So yes it’s Dave’s right to be able to say this stuff, it’s Netflix’s prerogative to pay for (and apparently lose money on) this content. But being told to stay in your lane isn’t the same as being censored, as I’m sure he would feel about every shitty dollar of a white man who offers their take on life as a black man. Having the right to joke about everything isn’t the same as remaining free from criticism when you do. Or to @sblfilms’s earlier comment… these are complicated issues and Dave, me, whoever, might not fully appreciate that things are actually different even if they appear to be superficially similar, or how deep those differences run.

 

/rant

 

1 minute ago, sblfilms said:

I believe what he actually said is in light of Trans activists creating the term TERF just to “win arguments” with the sorts of feminists who believe biological sex is more important than gender identity, he sides with “Team TERF”. 
 

In fact most who are labeled TERFs believe gender itself is a system of oppression by males against females.

 

He did, but I think this is a shit take at worst and a straw man at best. Regardless saying you’re “team TERF” in any context is dumn.

[Guest]

I don’t think leaning into labels that you think are unfair as a way to thumb your nose at those who use them is a problem. It isn’t particularly original but I do get the desire to show how little you care about pejorative labels being used against you.

[skillzdadirecta]

Transgender comedian defends Dave Chappelle - CNN Video

WWW.CNN.COM

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Flame Monroe, a transgender comedian, discusses Dave Chappelle's Netflix special that has drawn criticism from some people in the transgender...

 

[AbsolutSurgen]

23 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

I accept that there’s an extent to which this will come off as splitting hairs.

 

That said…

 

I don’t think he should be censored. If he wants to get on a stage and say he’s on team TERF he’s well within his rights to do that. He should be getting dragged for saying it, Netflix should be dragged for giving him a platform to say it, and relentlessly mocked for spending $24M on the affair.

 

Aside from it being a shitty thing to say, it’s fucking disappointing. His earlier special where he talked about George Floyd shows that he’s still got legitimate grievances, that he’s still insightful in some areas, and that he’s still got a point of view that’s worth hearing.

 

There’s nothing that seems to make successful comedians bristle more than the possibility of being “censored.” Many of them seem to buy into the notion that if they can’t say everything they’re at risk for being told that they can’t say anything. But that’s bullshit. The difference between being told you shouldn’t say something and that you cannot say something is not merely semantic. Dave is a black man; despite being rich, successful, and a celebrity, there are concerns he has that I, as a white, less successful, and non-famous person, will never have and quite frankly cannot ever fully understand.

 

Likewise as a cishet man, there are things about being trans that I will never fully be able to grasp. That doesn’t prohibit me from talking about trans issues or my right to speak about them without being censored. But if I was to use a public platform to speak about those things loudly and wrongly, I’d expect to be called out. Or if I used that or any platform to announce I’m a fucking TERF, I should expect the same.

 

So yes it’s Dave’s right to be able to say this stuff, it’s Netflix’s prerogative to pay for (and apparently lose money on) this content. But being told to stay in your lane isn’t the same as being censored, as I’m sure he would feel about every shitty dollar of a white man who offers their take on life as a black man. Having the right to joke about everything isn’t the same as remaining free from criticism when you do. Or to @sblfilms’s earlier comment… these are complicated issues and Dave, me, whoever, might not fully appreciate that things are actually different even if they appear to be superficially similar, or how deep those differences run.

 

/rant

 

 

He did, but I think this is a shit take at worst and a straw man at best. Regardless saying you’re “team TERF” in any context is dumn.

Stand-up comedy routines are not nuanced discussions of social issues.  I am not an expert in what makes things funny.  But, I do know that comedians frequently saying things "because they are funny".  And a lot of people find comedians saying outlandish and controversial things to be very funny.  I can't explain it, but making people uncomfortable frequently makes them laugh.

 

If people want to watch that content -- they should be free to do so.

 

Netflix wants to be one of the leaders in comedy -- and that includes providing a platform to a variety of comedians, with a variety of different styles.  I don't think you can do that, without giving comedians a license to say things that many of us are uncomfortable with.  Sure, there is a line they shouldn't cross -- but, honestly, I don't think this special crossed it.

[Greatoneshere]

3 hours ago, sblfilms said:

I believe what he actually said is in light of Trans activists creating the term TERF just to “win arguments” with the sorts of feminists who believe biological sex is more important than gender identity, he sides with “Team TERF”. 
 

In fact most who are labeled TERFs believe gender itself is a system of oppression by males against females.

 

Ah, I see - as I said, my take is uneducated but it didn't feel right to me at least. This explains it some, thank you.

[Kal-El814]

4 hours ago, sblfilms said:

I don’t think leaning into labels that you think are unfair as a way to thumb your nose at those who use them is a problem. It isn’t particularly original but I do get the desire to show how little you care about pejorative labels being used against you.

 

Sure, but he’s wrong about the origin of the term and its usage. Nobody should be shocked that Chappelle is getting lost in the sauce when it comes to what was originally and is still broadly a feminist issue. Not to say that men cannot be feminists nor that they cannot have an opinion about matters beyond their own experience, of course. Again, he’s within his rights to say this stuff. But there’s no way to t-spin your way into saying you’re team TERF and not come off shitty.

[Guest]

54 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

Sure, but he’s wrong about the origin of the term and its usage. Nobody should be shocked that Chappelle is getting lost in the sauce when it comes to what was originally and is still broadly a feminist issue. Not to say that men cannot be feminists nor that they cannot have an opinion about matters beyond their own experience, of course. Again, he’s within his rights to say this stuff. But there’s no way to t-spin your way into saying you’re team TERF and not come off shitty.

He is 100% not wrong about the usage of the term TERF in modern days, and you know it  It IS the sort of labeling that is used to stifle debate! The point of it is to invalidate the perspective of women who view biological sex as the actual defining characteristic that needs protection. It is not a descriptor in modern discourse, it is a pejorative.
 

To say he supports those who have been maligned for that position is only “shitty” if you’ve already decided that position is invalid and deserving of scorn. And I would be interested to hear your thoughts on why it is such!

[SuperSpreader]

I've never heard of the word TERF until this thread. 

[Kal-El814]

30 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

He is 100% not wrong about the usage of the term TERF in modern days, and you know it  It IS the sort of labeling that is used to stifle debate! The point of it is to invalidate the perspective of women who view biological sex as the actual defining characteristic that needs protection. It is not a descriptor in modern discourse, it is a pejorative.
 

To say he supports those who have been maligned for that position is only “shitty” if you’ve already decided that position is invalid and deserving of scorn. And I would be interested to hear your thoughts on why it is such!

 

Saying that terf is used to, "invalidate the perspective of women who view biological sex as the actual defining characteristic that needs protection," is a very charitable reading of the term, and to say that it's used to, "stifle debate," supposes "debate" is what trans people are interested in. I don't think the former is accurate in anything but the most pedantic way and that's assuming more charity than I'm inclined to give.

 

As for debate, what debate needs to take place other than one in bad faith? Accepting that trans women are women (or that the opposite holds true for trans men, that genderfluid and nonbinary people exist, etc.) causes no harm. The greatest concession I'm willing to make is that I while I can appreciate that some people will get hung up on their perceived tent having more people under it, that seems like a small price to pay for greater inclusivity, the acceptance that this group of people often need specialized medical and psychological care (note that I'm not suggesting disorder here), and broader acceptance generally.

 

Where's the harm? And if there's little to none, why the objection? And if there are objections absent harm, why not call it out for the bigotry it is? 

 

Cis objections to trans inclusion feel so much like objection to gay marriage to me. Why do gay people have to have their own parade? Maybe if they weren't so flamboyant everyone would leave them alone and stop caring. Yeah what you do in your own home is your business, why do I have to see it? Yes, gay people can be in committed relationships but marriage is our thing, why can't they call it something else? Blah blah blah. No doubt people are still out there grinding their teeth about gay marriage, but they've been shouted down as well they should be and it's not generally socially acceptable to get on stage and complain about it. Hopefully it doesn't take as long for people to get shouted down about objecting to the existence / identity / rights of trans people, or you know, at least get to the point where Netflix doesn't feel compelled to give someone $24M to chin wag about being on team terf because they had a trans friend. 

 

TLDR when inclusivity costs little yet benefits a marginalized group of people, we should embrace that and make rejecting those notions societally unacceptable. And TBH we should consider doing it even if it costs something more than a little, too.

[Greatoneshere]

40 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

Saying that terf is used to, "invalidate the perspective of women who view biological sex as the actual defining characteristic that needs protection," is a very charitable reading of the term, and to say that it's used to, "stifle debate," supposes "debate" is what trans people are interested in. I don't think the former is accurate in anything but the most pedantic way and that's assuming more charity than I'm inclined to give.

 

As for debate, what debate needs to take place other than one in bad faith? Accepting that trans women are women (or that the opposite holds true for trans men, that genderfluid and nonbinary people exist, etc.) causes no harm. The greatest concession I'm willing to make is that I while I can appreciate that some people will get hung up on their perceived tent having more people under it, that seems like a small price to pay for greater inclusivity, the acceptance that this group of people often need specialized medical and psychological care (note that I'm not suggesting disorder here), and broader acceptance generally.

 

Where's the harm? And if there's little to none, why the objection? And if there are objections absent harm, why not call it out for the bigotry it is? 

 

Cis objections to trans inclusion feel so much like objection to gay marriage to me. Why do gay people have to have their own parade? Maybe if they weren't so flamboyant everyone would leave them alone and stop caring. Yeah what you do in your own home is your business, why do I have to see it? Yes, gay people can be in committed relationships but marriage is our thing, why can't they call it something else? Blah blah blah. No doubt people are still out there grinding their teeth about gay marriage, but they've been shouted down as well they should be and it's not generally socially acceptable to get on stage and complain about it. Hopefully it doesn't take as long for people to get shouted down about objecting to the existence / identity / rights of trans people, or you know, at least get to the point where Netflix doesn't feel compelled to give someone $24M to chin wag about being on team terf because they had a trans friend. 

 

TLDR when inclusivity costs little yet benefits a marginalized group of people, we should embrace that and make rejecting those notions societally unacceptable. And TBH we should consider doing it even if it costs something more than a little, too.

 

This is exactly how I feel as well. Why the objection? It doesn't make sense. I agree with all of this.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Kal-El814 said:

Where's the harm? And if there's little to none, why the objection? And if there are objections absent harm, why not call it out for the bigotry it is? 

I’m not sure why you or I really need to be included in determining whether there is a harm to females by including males on the basis of gender identity. At minimum I don’t see why on its face it is invalid to believe that replacing sex with gender is a negative for females, even if you ultimately disagree.

[Kal-El814]

Remember that Chapelle applauded Netflix for pulling content when it hurt HIS feel feels. Cancel culture is for thee, not for me.

 

 

[Mercury33]

On 10/18/2021 at 6:07 PM, SuperSpreader said:

I've never heard of the word TERF until this thread. 

same

[Remarkableriots]

Trans activist's anti-Asian tweets resurface after Netflix walkout against Dave Chapelle special

NEXTSHARK.COM

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Old tweets from a transgender activist who led the Netflix walkout following the Dave Chapelle comedy special “The Closer” have gone viral for expressing racist, anti-Asian sentiments. if(!window.mobileCheck) pubg.queue.push(function(){initAdUnit("pubg-w6k-zpw");}); Background: The Netflix special drew heavy criticism for Chapelle’s allegedly transphobic comments. 

 

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, Remarkableriots said:

Trans activist's anti-Asian tweets resurface after Netflix walkout against Dave Chapelle special

NEXTSHARK.COM

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Old tweets from a transgender activist who led the Netflix walkout following the Dave Chapelle comedy special “The Closer” have gone viral for expressing racist, anti-Asian sentiments. if(!window.mobileCheck)...

 

I am shocked that somebody had #BadOldTweets

[Kal-El814]

This is, almost literally, the exact same playbook used against gay people not that long ago, right down to the, “look at the shitty thing this gay person / people said, so hypocritical,” scheme.