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Joe Biden beats Donald Trump, officially making Trump a one-term twice impeached, twice popular-vote losing president

SaysWho?

By SaysWho?
in The Political Re-Education Camp

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Dodger

Dodger

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Joe said:

 

Dude, what? 

 

 

Because nearly every poll posted here has Biden up damn near everywhere. And don't give me you just don't understand how polls work shit either, if Biden loses the ways these polls are being done is  fundamentally broken and unreliable. 

 

I shouldn't say I wouldn't trust any poll, @SaysWho? state and local coverage is excellent and I really enjoy it. 

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Joe

Joe

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Dodger said:

 

 

Because nearly every poll posted here has Biden up damn near everywhere. And don't give me you just don't understand how polls work shit either, if Biden loses the ways these polls are being done is  fundamentally broken and unreliable. 

 

I shouldn't say I wouldn't trust any poll, @SaysWho? state and local coverage is excellent and I really enjoy it. 

 

You realize the election isn't tomorrow, right?

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SaysWho?

SaysWho?

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2 minutes ago, Dodger said:

 

 

Because nearly every poll posted here has Biden up damn near everywhere. And don't give me you just don't understand how polls work shit either, if Biden loses the ways these polls are being done is  fundamentally broken and unreliable. 

 

I shouldn't say I wouldn't trust any poll, @SaysWho? state and local coverage is excellent and I really enjoy it. 

 

Hey, thanks man!

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Dodger

Dodger

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Joe said:

 

You realize the election isn't tomorrow, right?

 

 

It's not, but how often does a candidate polling as well as Biden is right now completely have their numbers collapse 2 months before the election? Especially since Trump isn't about to magically solve Covid and BLM issues, well probably ever but definitely not in the next 2 months. 

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Joe

Joe

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20 minutes ago, Dodger said:

 

 

It's not, but how often does a candidate polling as well as Biden is right now completely have their numbers collapse 2 months before the election? Especially since Trump isn't about to magically solve Covid and BLM issues, well probably ever but definitely not in the next 2 months. 

 

Happened to Dukakis. Also, you probably shouldn't trust polls posted here anyway. They are very cherry picked, but you can do your own research, too.

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b_m_b_m_b_m

b_m_b_m_b_m

Posted
Posted
50 minutes ago, Dodger said:

 

 

Because nearly every poll posted here has Biden up damn near everywhere. And don't give me you just don't understand how polls work shit either, if Biden loses the ways these polls are being done is  fundamentally broken and unreliable. 

 

I shouldn't say I wouldn't trust any poll, @SaysWho? state and local coverage is excellent and I really enjoy it. 

If the polls and polling averages largely match the electoral result, like they largely did in 2018, but the distribution of votes means trump wins, I gotta tell you, it's not the polls that are broken, but our electoral system

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Dodger

Dodger

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16 minutes ago, Joe said:

 

Happened to Dukakis. Also, you probably shouldn't trust polls posted here anyway. They are very cherry picked, but you can do your own research, too.

 

 

What happened to Dukakis is literally my earliest political memory. I have vague memories of Reagan like the last year or two but nothing specific. But that Dukakis moment, I'll never forget it. 

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Dodger

Dodger

Posted
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Just now, Joe said:

Dodger probably thinks the polls in 2016 were wrong, a widely held misbelief.

 

 

If the polls continue the way they are and Trump wins legit, the polls are wrong. It won't be a misbelief anymore, these polls will simply be wrong. You can't fuck this up twice in a row and still be right. 

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Joe

Joe

Posted
Posted
Just now, Dodger said:

 

 

If the polls continue the way they are and Trump wins legit, the polls are wrong. It won't be a misbelief anymore, these polls will simply be wrong. You can't fuck this up twice in a row and still be right. 

 

Again, what do you mean twice in a row? And why do you assume the polls stay constant? Biden does not have an insurmountable lead in battleground states by any stretch.

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Dodger

Dodger

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3 minutes ago, Joe said:

 

Again, what do you mean twice in a row? And why do you assume the polls stay constant? Biden does not have an insurmountable lead in battleground states by any stretch.

 

 

I understand that nothing is impossible but I just went to 538 and low and behold, Biden is favored to win 71 out of 100 times. Yes I understand that means Trump still can win 28 out of 100 times. You're right, anything can happen in two months, but polling is looking a lot like 2016 all over again. I'm just not trusting any of this in 2024 if polling holds like this and Trump pulls out a legit win. 

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Reputator

Reputator

Posted
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6 minutes ago, Anathema- said:

The polls are actually very different this time around, assuming you're looking at more than the topline number and MoE.

 

Yep. The deeper you look the more different it seems. The difference in the amount of undecideds alone is a pretty drastic change.

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mclumber1

mclumber1

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59 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

Math has already explained that the electoral college is 67% inherently in a Republicans favor. It's not the polls. So it's not per se the polls.

 

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/9/17/20868790/republicans-lose-popular-vote-win-electoral-college

 

It's why, in part, Bush won in 2000 and why Trump won in 2016.

 

Expanding the House (and in turn, the electoral college) via simple legislation would alleviate this problem, at least partially.  

 

But of course when/if the Democrats control both Congress and the White House next year, they won't do this.  Because they are dumb. 

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Greatoneshere

Greatoneshere

Posted
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1 hour ago, mclumber1 said:

 

Expanding the House (and in turn, the electoral college) via simple legislation would alleviate this problem, at least partially.  

 

But of course when/if the Democrats control both Congress and the White House next year, they won't do this.  Because they are dumb. 

 

All completely true. Le sigh. People really need to be worried about that link/electoral college, not polls. It's the 67% favorability towards Republicans that will allow Trump to win (on top of his cheating).

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Brick

Brick

Posted
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A friend of mine just shared this on Facebook from some FB page, and anyone want to help me dismantle this, and offer any counters?

 

Quote

The "debate" between Biden and Trump could take place in literally ten minutes. 
Moderator: Mr. Biden, Mr. Trump, thank you for taking the time to chat. Let's start with foreign policy. 
Biden: You're bombing seven countries. 
Trump: I'm bombing the same seven countries you and Obama bombed. 
Biden: You've used drones to kill innocent people, including US citizens. 
Trump: So did you when you were VP. 
Biden: You're supported by neoconservative hawks. 
Trump: Yes, so are you. 
Moderator: Would either of you agree to cut defense spending and reallocate that money to social programs? 
Trump: No. 
Biden: No. 
Moderator: Will either of you withdraw all US forces from Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya? 
Trump: No. 
Biden: No. 
Moderator: Will you both continue propping up the dictatorship in Saudi Arabia with cash and weapons? 
Biden : Yes.
Trump: Yes.
Moderator: Will you both continue provoking Iran over a nuclear weapons program that doesn't exist? 
Biden: Yes. 
Trump: Yes.
Biden: Your campaign is funded by banks, corporations, and other special interests. 
Trump: So is yours. 
Biden: Your campaign is supported by union busting lawyers. 
Trump: So is yours. 
Moderator: Do either of you support anything revolutionary when it comes to addressing systemic racism in this country or defunding/abolishing police?
Trump: No. 
Biden: No. 
Biden: Police are shooting at, teargassing, beating, and killing peaceful demonstrators under your administration. 
Trump: When you were VP, police did the same thing. Standing Rock? Ferguson? 
Moderator: What will you do about our system of mass incarceration? 
Biden: I helped build that system. 
Trump: Nothing. 
Moderator: Would either of you end the failing and inherently racist war on drugs? 
Trump: No. 
Biden: No. 
Moderator: Okay, but how about something a majority of Americans support, like legalizing weed? 
Trump: No. 
Biden: No. 
Moderator: Universal, free healthcare? 
Biden: No. 
Trump: No. 
Moderator: You have both supported discriminatory legislation against the LGBTQ+ community, yes? 
Biden: Yes.
Trump: Yes. 
Biden: You've said very racist things. 
Trump: So have you. 
Biden: You're an accused rapist. 
Trump: So are you. 
Biden: You support mass surveillance and broad powers for NSA spying. 
Trump: It's true, but you and Obama reauthorized the Patriot Act, continued Bush-era spying, and prosecuted record numbers of government whistleblowers.
Moderator: On the issue of torture? 
Trump: Waterboard the hell out of 'em. 
Biden: Immunity for CIA torturers.  
Biden: You have undocumented kids being held in cages. 
Trump: So did you as Obama's VP.  
Biden: You supported a border wall. 
Trump: So did you. 
Moderator: Okay, so to recap... Mr Biden, you're an interventionist backed by neocons who supports forever wars and bloated military budgets. You've been accused of rape. You're supported by union busters, banks, and corporations. You'll do nothing revolutionary when it comes to addressing institutionalized racism, police brutality, or ending the drug war. You have a history of being against LGBTQ+ rights, supporting racist legislation, and saying very racist things. You're okay with torture, you're okay with prosecuting government whistleblowers, you don't support universal healthcare, you do support mass surveillance, and you have historically supported border walls and undocumented kids kept in cages.
Biden: Yes. 
Moderator: And Mr. Trump? 
Trump: Same. 
Moderator: Well, that concludes our debate. Thank you both for being here.

 

Aside from the obvious of "THIS ISN'T HELPING", and while I get the two party system is shit, come on, Biden is a much better choice than Trump because *gestures at everything going on*. Biden may not be for some of the important things listed, but I think the party can actually persuade him into more progressive policies down the line, and that's assuming he doesn't at some point step down for Kamala to take over.

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Chairslinger

Chairslinger

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, Brick said:

A friend of mine just shared this on Facebook from some FB page, and anyone want to help me dismantle this, and offer any counters?

 

 

Aside from the obvious of "THIS ISN'T HELPING", and while I get the two party system is shit, come on, Biden is a much better choice than Trump because *gestures at everything going on*. Biden may not be for some of the important things listed, but I think the party can actually persuade him into more progressive policies down the line, and that's assuming he doesn't at some point step down for Kamala to take over.

 

Moderator: During the Ebola outbreak under your watch how many Americans did you let die.

Biden: Two.

Moderator: During the conronvirus how many Americans did you let die.

Trump: Two. Hundred Thousand. And counting.

 

Most of what is listed is flippant, reductionist bullshit so respond in kind. 

 

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b_m_b_m_b_m

b_m_b_m_b_m

Posted
Posted

Biden won't be pushed left or persuaded to do x, y, or z, just look at his history. It's fucking stupid to think so especially in light of his recent assurances to Wall Street on placating "the Warren people".

 

The only objective reason to vote for him from the left perspective is as follows: maybe, just maybe, Clearance Thomas dies in office, or so does RBG or Breyer, or if we're really fortunate Roberts or Kav will get covid or whatever, and Biden has a democratic senate to replace one or more of them. If there's a chance to break the conservative courts, particularly SCOTUS, the conservative project of the last generation has failed and minoritarian rule is adverted for the time being. This is why I'm for packing the court. All the chicanery, suppression, gerrymandering, voter roll purges, etc, it possibly ends. That's what is keeping the conservatives in power, their bullshit is supported by the courts and it is what allows the doubling down on the white nationalist shit and not having to appeal to the growing non-white majority. Every conservative on the court has been funneled through the federalist society ringer and no matter what social wins you might occasionally get, this is their core tenant, and they will not deviate on this. The party has committed to this doubling down of white nationalism instead of embracing the other route for the right, as outlined in the 2012 post-mortum of moderating, listening to and responding in kind to Hispanic and other growing voter blocks.

 

If minoritarian rule lasts it will be through violence, ultimately, and the courts, if we have a 7-2 conservative majority on the bench (and not withstanding or ignoring the lower courts as well) this, all of this you see around you today, will only and out of necessity, get worse as they cling to power. 

 

I highly recommend listening to the most recent episode of the 5-4 podcast on voting rights. It echoes a lot of what I have said here and then some. Good pod, too.

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