b_m_b_m_b_m Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 There’s virtually zero drawbacks to allowing people to choose to vaccinate their children why are you even fucking arguing this point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 19 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: There’s virtually zero drawbacks to allowing people to choose to vaccinate their children why are you even fucking arguing this point I am not arguing against parents being able to choose to do so, I am only stating why an actual doctor who has specialized in this field for longer than you or I have been alive doesn’t think it is a worthwhile public health effort while vaccinating for chickenpox is. Alternate expert viewpoints shouldn’t be so objectionable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 31 minutes ago, sblfilms said: I am not arguing against parents being able to choose to do so, I am only stating why an actual doctor who has specialized in this field for longer than you or I have been alive doesn’t think it is a worthwhile public health effort while vaccinating for chickenpox is. alternate expert viewpoints shouldn’t be so objectionable. Don’t launder your opinions through an unnamed doctor, there’s a lot of opinions from other equally qualified or better doctors to say otherwise, particularly when you’re talking about simply not vaccinating a portion of the population because their risk is low (but not as low as it would be if vaccinated) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: Don’t launder your opinions Quit projecting your own behaviors on others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted April 20, 2022 Author Share Posted April 20, 2022 1 minute ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: Don’t launder your opinions through an unnamed doctor, there’s a lot of opinions from other equally qualified or better doctors to say otherwise, particularly when you’re talking about simply not vaccinating a portion of the population because their risk is low (but not as low as it would be if vaccinated) The argument from the bioethicist I read was that: 1) The risk to young children is very low 2) The benefits of vaccination are relatively low due to lower efficacy 3) The other risks (i.e. myocarditis in young males) is higher than other age groups 4) There are still high risk groups elsewhere in the world who would benefit more from vaccination I still vaccinated my 6-year old daughter. However, I would still not be overly concerned with rejoining "normalish" life, even if she wasn't. Because her risks are abnormally low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 7 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said: The argument from the bioethicist I read was that: 1) The risk to young children is very low 2) The benefits of vaccination are relatively low due to lower efficacy 3) The other risks (i.e. myocarditis in young males) is higher than other age groups 4) There are still high risk groups elsewhere in the world who would benefit more from vaccination I still vaccinated my 6-year old daughter. However, I would still not be overly concerned with rejoining "normalish" life, even if she wasn't. Because her risks are abnormally low. 1 agreed 2 that remains to be seen, but if we get 90% reduction in severe disease/death but only 35% on infection this is wholly called into question 3 infection is more likely to cause side effects like myocarditis than vaccination, dumb point 4 were rapidly reaching or at the point where the issue is logistics (refrigeration and poor health networks as examples) being the biggest hurdle for vaccine uptake in the developing world over vaccine supply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted April 20, 2022 Author Share Posted April 20, 2022 7 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: 1 agreed 2 that remains to be seen, but if we get 90% reduction in severe disease/death but only 35% on infection this is wholly called into question 3 infection is more likely to cause side effects like myocarditis than vaccination, dumb point 4 were rapidly reaching or at the point where the issue is logistics (refrigeration and poor health networks as examples) being the biggest hurdle for vaccine uptake in the developing world over vaccine supply. The protection for kids from 5-11 against hospitalization is only 66%, my understanding is the protection for kids under 5 is even lower (although I haven't been able to find a good number). If it were 90%, it would already have been approved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 4 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said: The protection for kids from 5-11 against hospitalization is only 66%, my understanding is the protection for kids under 5 is even lower (although I haven't been able to find a good number). If it were 90%, it would already have been approved. Moderna wants the FDA to authorize its COVID-19 vaccine for kids under 6 WWW.NPR.ORG No deaths were reported in tests, and there were no signs of myocarditis, or heart inflammation, as a side effect. Quote The pediatric doses "showed a robust neutralizing antibody response" similar to adults' doses, with "a favorable safety profile," the company said. Though, the efficacy was 43.7% in children 6 months to 2 years old, and 37.5% in children from 2 to under 6. No severe cases of COVID-19 were reported. Over 7000 kids got the vaccine so this is good 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 2 hours ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: like with chickenpox it used to kill only about 100-150 people per year, hospitalized about 10k people, and infected about 4 million, and lead to shingles later in life. Given this why would we vaccinate kids against chickenpox???? CDC reference As someone who had shingles in November I wish I had been vaccinated against chickenpox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted April 20, 2022 Author Share Posted April 20, 2022 35 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: Moderna wants the FDA to authorize its COVID-19 vaccine for kids under 6 WWW.NPR.ORG No deaths were reported in tests, and there were no signs of myocarditis, or heart inflammation, as a side effect. Over 7000 kids got the vaccine so this is good There was no severe disease in the study in either the vaccinated or unvaccinated group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentbob Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 3 hours ago, Comet said: This is absolutely fascinating. Hell I remember cartoons for our generation still talked about it as a common thing. I believe there’s a whole episode of Rugrats where one kid gets it and the parents bring all the other kids together so they can get it too. I got chickenpox as an older kid... around 14 and it was HELL. It spread through my house when my little brother got in daycare and I had never had it at that point. I don't think my nieces and nephews have ever had it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 11 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said: I got chickenpox as an older kid... around 14 and it was HELL. It spread through my house when my little brother got in daycare and I had never had it at that point. I don't think my nieces and nephews have ever had it. My sister and I both got chicken pox as older children and it was indeed HELL! We both still have multiple scars all over our bodies from it. Our pediatricians were absolutely shocked at the severity of the cases both she and I had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 4 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: We both still have multiple scars all over our bodies from it. I do to. That shit was agony... I can only imagine what shingles must feel like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marioandsonic Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 I remember getting chickenpox as a kid. I was pretty little when it happened so I don't remember it in great detail, but I remember it was pain. My older brother got it too as a kid. I think my younger brother was vaccinated for it, though. Am I supposed to get the shingles vaccine? Or how does that work now? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 14 minutes ago, marioandsonic said: I remember getting chickenpox as a kid. I was pretty little when it happened so I don't remember it in great detail, but I remember it was pain. My older brother got it too as a kid. I think my younger brother was vaccinated for it, though. Am I supposed to get the shingles vaccine? Or how does that work now? You’re already dead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 23 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: ONLY if the CDC deems the mandate necessary for public health. The CDC has asked the DoJ to appeal the ruling. CDC asks Justice Department to appeal ruling that lifted travel mask mandate WWW.CNBC.COM The CDC's mask mandate was enacted in February 2021 and recently extended through May 3. Chances are the CDC was going to drop the mandate in the very near future, but they want to use this case in order to establish the legal precedent that they do possess the statutory authority necessary to enact mandates such as this one for the future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: The CDC has asked the DoJ to appeal the ruling. CDC asks Justice Department to appeal ruling that lifted travel mask mandate WWW.CNBC.COM The CDC's mask mandate was enacted in February 2021 and recently extended through May 3. Chances are the CDC was going to drop the mandate in the very near future, but they want to use this case in order to establish the legal precedent that they do possess the statutory authority necessary to enact mandates such as this one for the future. lol legal precedent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 7 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said: There was no severe disease in the study in either the vaccinated or unvaccinated group. Correct, so what was your source for your “understanding” of the numbers on hospitalizations for children younger than 5 years old? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chadatog Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 10 hours ago, sblfilms said: Small children don’t die at any alarming rate, so saying something is a top 10 child killer is pretty meaningless. If Covid affected all ages the way it affects young children, we wouldn’t bother with literally any of the things we’ve done the last two years. And guess what the chickenpox vaccine does that the Covid vaccine doesn’t? Prevents infection in the vast majority of patients after two doses (90%+!). This presents both a personal benefit and a public health benefit. As a parent who lost a child I really hope you don't have to go through that and hear some asshole say that small children don't die at an alarming rate. And as the foster parent of a under 5 child considered medically fragile, we would like her to be able to go places eventually and not have to wait for the magic switch to be flipped inside of her for her immune systems to work better with the vaccine when she turns 5 in August. I love it when people talk about other people as statistics and loose their humanity. (mostly talking about Nate Silver here) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 31 minutes ago, Chadatog said: As a parent who lost a child I really hope you don't have to go through that and hear some asshole say that small children don't die at an alarming rate. And as the foster parent of a under 5 child considered medically fragile, we would like her to be able to go places eventually and not have to wait for the magic switch to be flipped inside of her for her immune systems to work better with the vaccine when she turns 5 in August. I love it when people talk about other people as statistics and loose their humanity. (mostly talking about Nate Silver here) We are talking about public health policy which, despite your attempt to smear me here, has nothing to do with the exceptional cases. Pay closer attention to context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Joe said: Correct, so what was your source for your “understanding” of the numbers on hospitalizations for children younger than 5 years old? Lol understanding. Dude is Canadian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 7 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said: I can only imagine what shingles must feel like. It's like soreness at first and then like unbearable itchiness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 🥓🍳 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted April 21, 2022 Author Share Posted April 21, 2022 10 hours ago, Joe said: Correct, so what was your source for your “understanding” of the numbers on hospitalizations for children younger than 5 years old? Ontario COVID-19 Data Tool | Public Health Ontario WWW.PUBLICHEALTHONTARIO.CA Explore confirmed COVID-19 data in Ontario by: case trends over time including hospitalizations and deaths, age and sex, public health unit, reproduction number, acquisition, outbreaks, laboratory testing and vaccines. Hospital Capacity: Critical Care (Adult and Paediatric**) (oha.com) ICU numbers and hospitalization numbers are reported daily in my Province. For instance,this data tells you that of 2 days ago, that there were 75 children in the ICU -- 3 of them had COVID. The amount of deaths, hospitalizations, etc. by age group are easily accessible by age group (both absolutes and rate of population) for both the last 2 weeks and cumulative for the pandemic. [Note: Hospitalization does not necessarily mean severe disease -- particularly with Omicron -- many admissions are for things not considered "severe" (i.e. a day or less to monitor Oxygen levels, and/or a steroid spray to reduce inflammation in the lungs.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 Burn the fda to the ground this is inexcusable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 20 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said: Ontario COVID-19 Data Tool | Public Health Ontario WWW.PUBLICHEALTHONTARIO.CA Explore confirmed COVID-19 data in Ontario by: case trends over time including hospitalizations and deaths, age and sex, public health unit, reproduction number, acquisition, outbreaks, laboratory testing and vaccines. Hospital Capacity: Critical Care (Adult and Paediatric**) (oha.com) ICU numbers and hospitalization numbers are reported daily in my Province. For instance,this data tells you that of 2 days ago, that there were 75 children in the ICU -- 3 of them had COVID. The amount of deaths, hospitalizations, etc. by age group are easily accessible by age group (both absolutes and rate of population) for both the last 2 weeks and cumulative for the pandemic. [Note: Hospitalization does not necessarily mean severe disease -- particularly with Omicron -- many admissions are for things not considered "severe" (i.e. a day or less to monitor Oxygen levels, and/or a steroid spray to reduce inflammation in the lungs.] I meant in terms of vaccine efficacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted April 21, 2022 Author Share Posted April 21, 2022 19 minutes ago, Joe said: I meant in terms of vaccine efficacy. Pfizer pulled their own approval request in December because a 2-dose regime didn't meet their efficacy requirements -- and showed less effectiveness in the 2-5 year-old age groups. Quote While the study is ongoing and remains blinded, a pre-specified immunogenicity analysis was conducted on a subset of the study population one month following the second dose. Compared to the 16- to 25-year-old population in which high efficacy was demonstrated, non-inferiority was met for the 6- to 24-month-old population but not for the 2- to under 5-year-old population in this analysis. No safety concerns were identified and the 3 µg dose demonstrated a favorable safety profile in children 6 months to under 5 years of age. The decision to evaluate a third dose of 3 µg for children 6 months to under 5 years of age reflects the companies’ commitment to carefully select the right dose to maximize the risk-benefit profile. If the three-dose study is successful, Pfizer and BioNTech expect to submit data to regulators to support an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) for children 6 months to under 5 years of age in the first half of 2022. In terms of numbers for current efficacy in children, there was another study released earlier this week. COVID-19 vaccine protects kids and teens from severe illness: Study evaluated Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine effectiveness during the Delta and Omicron periods in children 5-18 years of age -- ScienceDaily WWW.SCIENCEDAILY.COM Results of a new multicenter study found that vaccination with a primary series of the Pfizer-BioNTech mRNA COVID-19 vaccine reduced the risk of COVID-19-associated hospitalizations in children ages 5-11 years by two-thirds during the Omicron period. Quote During the Omicron period (December 19, 2021-February 17, 2022), vaccination reduced the risk of COVID-19-associated hospitalization by 68 percent in children ages 5-11 years. Vaccine effectiveness against any type of COVID-19-associated hospitalization in adolescents ages 12-18 years who received a primary series declined from 92 percent during the Delta (July 1, 2021-December 18, 2021) period to 40 percent during the Omicron period. Protection against COVID-19 requiring life-supporting interventions remained high for adolescents during Delta (96 percent) and Omicron (79 percent). Due to the low numbers of hospitalized children ages 5-11 years in the study, researchers could not analyze vaccine effectiveness by disease severity for this age group but will continue to monitor as these data are collected. Data in this age group was not available for the Delta period, since younger children were not eligible for the vaccine at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted April 21, 2022 Author Share Posted April 21, 2022 Increased Memory B Cell Potency and Breadth After a SARS-CoV-2 mRNA Boost WWW.NATURE.COM Nature - Increased Memory B Cell Potency and Breadth After a SARS-CoV-2 mRNA Boost Quote The omicron variant of SARS-CoV-2 infected many vaccinated and convalescent individuals1-3. Despite the reduced protection from infection, individuals that received 3 doses of an mRNA vaccine were highly protected from more serious consequences of infection4. Here we examine the memory B cell repertoire in a longitudinal cohort of individuals receiving 3 mRNA vaccine doses5,6. We find that the 3rd dose is accompanied by an increase in, and evolution of, anti-receptor binding domain-specific memory B cells. The increase is due to expansion of memory B cell clones that were present after the 2nd dose as well as the emergence of new clones. The antibodies encoded by these cells showed significantly increased potency and breadth when compared to antibodies obtained after the 2nd dose. Notably, the increase in potency was especially evident among newly developing clones of memory cells that differed from the persisting clones in targeting more conserved regions of the RBD. Overall, more than 50% of the analyzed neutralizing antibodies in the memory compartment after a 3rd mRNA vaccine dose neutralized Omicron. Thus, individuals receiving 3 doses of an mRNA vaccine, have a diverse memory B cell repertoire that can respond rapidly and produce antibodies capable of clearing even diversified variants such as Omicron. These data help explain why a 3rd dose of a vaccine that was not specifically designed to protect against variants is effective against variant-induced serious disease. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 Yeah no doink. GOP/conservative base is responsible for much/most of those deaths. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 Fuck...I've been using them a lot since they're on the way on my walk to work. If I've had COVID I haven't been symptomatic, but I've relied on a number of negative tests from them to be sure I'm okay after doing things that could have exposed me, like air travel. I never did a 24 hour turnaround test with them so hopefully that means I didn't get any fake results. 'Beyond outrageous': L.A. company faked COVID test results, authorities allege WWW.LATIMES.COM A company accused of handing out fake results for hundreds of coronavirus tests will pay more than $20 million in a settlement with the city of L.A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris- Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 I have the novel coronavirus. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 10 minutes ago, Chris- said: I have the novel coronavirus. Good thing you got that life insurance policy sorted out now that you’re married Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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