Jason Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Quote “We’re looking at that very seriously, birthright citizenship, where you have a baby on our land, you walk over the border, have a baby - congratulations, the baby is now a U.S. citizen. ... It’s frankly ridiculous,” Trump told reporters outside the White House. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-trump/trump-says-he-is-seriously-looking-at-ending-birthright-citizenship-idUSKCN1VB21B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathema- Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Don't worry, one phone call from Putin will change that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Literally nothing more unconstitutional. I guess they'll go with the argument "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" in the 14th amendment means that children born here aren't subject to the jurisdiction of the United States of their parents aren't citizens. Absolute insanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinIon Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 I don't imagine that this is a change he can get through. I really don't think there's a reasonable interpretation of the 14th that could limit birthright citizenship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 41 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: Literally nothing more unconstitutional. I guess they'll go with the argument "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" in the 14th amendment means that children born here aren't subject to the jurisdiction of the United States of their parents aren't citizens. Absolute insanity. I actually disagree. I don't believe the 14th amendment grants birthright citizenship. That being said, I don't have a problem with birthright citizenship, but it should be born from legislation and not interpretation of the 14th amendment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 minute ago, mclumber1 said: I actually disagree. I don't believe the 14th amendment grants birthright citizenship. That being said, I don't have a problem with birthright citizenship, but it should be born from legislation and not interpretation of the 14th amendment. I don't think you know what words mean. Quote All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CayceG Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, mclumber1 said: I actually disagree. I don't believe the 14th amendment grants birthright citizenship. That being said, I don't have a problem with birthright citizenship, but it should be born from legislation and not interpretation of the 14th amendment. Common law is great when I agree with it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: I don't think you know what words mean. The baby of two foreigners is subject to the jurisdiction of their parents nation, I would argue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firewithin Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 yall really acting like you wont believe what the chosen one says Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, mclumber1 said: The baby of two foreigners is subject to the jurisdiction of their parents nation, I would argue. Unless you have diplomatic status,you're subject to the jurisdiction of a country while you're within the borders of that country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, mclumber1 said: The baby of two foreigners is subject to the jurisdiction of their parents nation, I would argue. That's not what jurisdiction means. If you're in the United States, you're subject to the laws of the United States. Aside from ambassadors and other diplomats as Jason said above. On a subnational level, if you break an Ohio law in Ohio, you are subject to the jurisdiction of Ohio, not the state in which you are a resident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marioandsonic Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Leaving aside that this would violate the 14th amendment, how would this even be implemented? Does everyone have to take a citizenship test when they turn a certain age? Is everyone under that age then assumed to not be a citizen? Would that mean they are not subject to the rights of US citizens? And what happens if someone fails the test? Do you just get shipped to some random country? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 12 minutes ago, mclumber1 said: The baby of two foreigners is subject to the jurisdiction of their parents nation, I would argue. Also subject to wherever they live. Or would you argue that residents and tourists in the US are not subject to any of its laws? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 This will somehow blow back on white America and it will be glorious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firewithin Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 the purge is coming next Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Your interpretation even flys in the face of the rationale for the 14th amendment. It was created to directly repeal some of the Dread Scott decision, and the people writing the amendment went out of their way to say that it would grant citizenship to children of (at the time) "undesirable" immigrants such as Chinese and gypsies. And further, even if you accept this faulty argument, it is the purview of Congress, not the president, to make immigration and naturalization law. This is different than DACA, where the president agreed to defer action on a class of resident noncitizens in violation of the law(under certain conditions) because Trump would be actively changing the legal status of those born here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legend Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 51 minutes ago, mclumber1 said: The baby of two foreigners is subject to the jurisdiction of their parents nation, I would argue. So to be clear on your positions, you don't think it's reasonable to interpret limitations to the scope of guns the second amendment supports and are in general worried about removing "rights" from people; but you also think that the 14th amendment is too wish-washy on birthright citizenship and in need to further legislation to solidify. Am I getting that right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairslinger Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 If Trump gets a second term there is a good chance he'll work out a way to deport you for being a Democrat. I am not even sure if I'm kidding. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 57 minutes ago, mclumber1 said: The baby of two foreigners is subject to the jurisdiction of their parents nation, I would argue. I am shocked. This is my shocked face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firewithin Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 41 minutes ago, Jose said: I am shocked. This is my shocked face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 2 hours ago, marioandsonic said: Leaving aside that this would violate the 14th amendment, how would this even be implemented? Does everyone have to take a citizenship test when they turn a certain age? Is everyone under that age then assumed to not be a citizen? Would that mean they are not subject to the rights of US citizens? And what happens if someone fails the test? Do you just get shipped to some random country? I doubt Trump has thought this through, like, at all, but it's birthright citizenship. Presumably you'd wind up with non-citizen permanent residency status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, CitizenVectron said: Also subject to wherever they live. Or would you argue that residents and tourists in the US are not subject to any of its laws? If you're only subject to the jurisdiction of the country you're a citizen of then how can we deport illegal immigrants under American law? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, Jason said: I doubt Trump has thought this through, like, at all, but it's birthright citizenship. Presumably you'd wind up with non-citizen permanent residency status. The child would end up with the residency status of the parents, permanent or otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Jose said: I am shocked. This is my shocked face. We are a nation of immigrants. We should continue to be so. I just don't think the 14th says what you (and everyone else ITT, lol) think it says. I hope that people don't assume I take this stance as some anti-immigrant or racial sentiment. YMMV doe. I'll try and respond later tonight to expand on my reasoning, but I think we've had this debate before - with the corresponding gang-bang of my logic/line of thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osxmatt Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Where are all the constitutionalists within Republican Party to condemn this??? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marioandsonic Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 16 minutes ago, osxmatt said: Where are all the constitutionalists within Republican Party to condemn this??? It's not unconstitutional if a Republican does it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathema- Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 1 hour ago, mclumber1 said: We are a nation of immigrants. We should continue to be so. I just don't think the 14th says what you (and everyone else ITT, lol) think it says. I hope that people don't assume I take this stance as some anti-immigrant or racial sentiment. YMMV doe. I'll try and respond later tonight to expand on my reasoning, but I think we've had this debate before - with the corresponding gang-bang of my logic/line of thinking. If it didn't say that then the children and grandchildren of slaves wouldn't be citizens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Anathema- said: If it didn't say that then the children and grandchildren of slaves wouldn't be citizens. Slaves were not subject to the jurisdiction of any other country. The 14th amendment ensured the children of freed slaves would be granted citizenship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathema- Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 10 minutes ago, mclumber1 said: The 14th amendment ensured the children of freed slaves would be granted citizenship. ...by not limiting citizenship by anything other than presence (excepting ambassadors). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 Behold, legislative intent Quote "I voted for the proposition [14th amendment] to declare that the children of all parentage wherever, born in California, should be regarded and treated as citizens of the United States" California Senator John Conness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 7 minutes ago, Anathema- said: ...by not limiting citizenship by anything other than presence (excepting ambassadors). That doesn't explain the Indian citizenship act of 1924 though. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Citizenship_Act Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 Trump probably couldn't even pass a citizenship test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted August 22, 2019 Author Share Posted August 22, 2019 16 minutes ago, mclumber1 said: That doesn't explain the Indian citizenship act of 1924 though. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Citizenship_Act Slaves were never considered a separate sovereign nation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputator Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 4 hours ago, marioandsonic said: Leaving aside that this would violate the 14th amendment, how would this even be implemented? Does everyone have to take a citizenship test when they turn a certain age? Is everyone under that age then assumed to not be a citizen? Would that mean they are not subject to the rights of US citizens? And what happens if someone fails the test? Do you just get shipped to some random country? It starts with this "optional" questionnaire. With anyone answering anything other than "white" being passed on to a citizenship test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatGamble Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 4 hours ago, marioandsonic said: Leaving aside that this would violate the 14th amendment, how would this even be implemented? Does everyone have to take a citizenship test when they turn a certain age? Is everyone under that age then assumed to not be a citizen? Would that mean they are not subject to the rights of US citizens? And what happens if someone fails the test? Do you just get shipped to some random country? This is literally Trump dog whistling to his base. He knows he can't do this, but he is telling them what they want to hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.