Nintendo Update (03/04): Yuzu effectively surrenders without a fight, agrees to pay Nintendo $2.4 million and discontinues emulator

[AbsolutSurgen]

10 minutes ago, Biggie said:

A lot of you have pointed this out. It’s probably true. But regardless emulators aren’t good for anyone in the video game business. 

What if I told you that Nintendo has downloaded ROMs from the internet and resold them to use on  its own emulator for Virtual Console?

[best3444]

Biggie is such a Nintendo fanboy good lord! 🤣 

[Brian]

9 minutes ago, best3444 said:

Biggie is such a Nintendo fanboy good lord! 🤣 

Nintendo needs to gift Princess Peach Showtime to him for all the work he is putting into this thread. 

[Biggie]

1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

What if I told you that Nintendo has downloaded ROMs from the internet and resold them to use on  its own emulator for Virtual Console?

Good for them. 

24 minutes ago, best3444 said:

Biggie is such a Nintendo fanboy good lord! 🤣 

[Biggie]

14 minutes ago, Brian said:

Nintendo needs to gift Princess Peach Showtime to him for all the work he is putting into this thread. 

Couldn’t I just steal it like everybody else?

[Biggie]

1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

What if I told you that Nintendo has downloaded ROMs from the internet and resold them to use on  its own emulator for Virtual Console?

Ya know after 30 days I’ll review your D1P Bestie status. Gonna be honest, it’s not looking positive. I may need to call @best3444 in from home to fill in. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

1 minute ago, Biggie said:

Ya know after 30 days I’ll review your D1P Bestie status. Gonna be honest, it’s not looking positive. I may need to call @best3444 in from home to fill in. 

Still waiting for your call!

[GameDadGrant]

@Biggie isn't wrong, pirating games isn't good for the industry as a whole. There may not be anyone on this site that pirates, but make no mistake. There are absolutely people that do. 

 

 

[Biggie]

Just now, GameDadGrant said:

@Biggie isn't wrong, pirating games isn't good for the industry as a whole. There may not be anyone on this site that pirates, but make no mistake. There are absolutely people that do. 

 

 

No. It’s just honest hard working gamers who missed the window to purchase and play wayyy older games that aren’t available anymore. Nobody would pirate games. The world is a very honest place. 

[Mr.Vic20]

I'm against pirating games, but I'm for emulation. I can see both sides of the argument, but I think in just a few years it will be a moot point. Emulation will not be stopped. 

[legend]

6 minutes ago, GameDadGrant said:

@Biggie isn't wrong, pirating games isn't good for the industry as a whole. There may not be anyone on this site that pirates, but make no mistake. There are absolutely people that do. 

 

 

 

I don't think anyone is disputing that people who pirate exist in the world.

[AbsolutSurgen]

The pirates don't need an emulator to play Switch games.

[GameDadGrant]

3 minutes ago, legend said:

I don't think anyone is disputing the people who pirate exist in the world.

 

You are correct. 

[Biggie]

19 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

The pirates don't need an emulator to play Switch games.

That’s the final straw. I’m gonna have to let you go. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

17 minutes ago, Biggie said:

That’s the final straw. I’m gonna have to let you go. 

[Keyser_Soze]

Like I said earlier. Emulation is not piracy.

You can pirate with just a hack on your console. I think there is a card for the switch you can just stick it in and play any game.

 

An emulator allows you to play a game you already own on not original hardware.

 

 

Anyway this is all rich coming from @GameDadGrant who bought his kid a Wii-U so he could EMULATE Nintendo online and play games on a fake Nintendo network.

[Jason]

Video game companies that feel like they're getting hit by piracy should git gud on providing service. 

 

Gabe Newell: Piracy is an issue of service, not price | GamesRadar+

WWW.GAMESRADAR.COM

---

“Piracy is not a pricing issue,” insists Valve boss

 

[Biggie]

Nintendo reveals MAR10 Day 2024 celebrations

MYNINTENDONEWS.COM

---

Ready to relive your favorite Mario memories? Today Nintendo unveils a Mega Mushroom-sized list of ways to commemorate MAR10 Day this year – from competing for rewards to exploring deals...

 

[crispy4000]

3 hours ago, Biggie said:

No. It’s just honest hard working gamers who missed the window to purchase and play wayyy older games that aren’t available anymore. Nobody would pirate games. The world is a very honest place. 

Here's an idea, why doesn't Nintendo use emulation / backwards compatibility to sell them again on modern platforms?  Discount them heavily to encourage more people to buy them this time, like GoG does?

 

Or are you not willing to entertain such a solution, and instead choose to be salty about pirates playing abandonware.

[sblfilms]

2 hours ago, GameDadGrant said:

@Biggie isn't wrong, pirating games isn't good for the industry as a whole. There may not be anyone on this site that pirates, but make no mistake. There are absolutely people that do. 

 

 

Piracy is a tricky issue to sort out the economics of, and anybody who argues it is definitively bad or definitively good likely doesn’t know what they are talking about. 
 

As a general rule, the same issues that people will point to regarding piracy are present in both the rental and used game markets where the content owners are not directly compensated for those secondary transactions, but few attempt to argue that such activity is the same moral or ethical ill that piracy represents.

 

I myself don’t pirate games, nor do I use unofficial emulation, but the truth is most people who pirate extensively would not have paid money for the bulk of what they pirate. Similarly, without secondary sales or rental markets, most of those buyers would not be full price consumers of the content. It is equally difficult to figure out the net impact of used sales and rental, though I suppose both of those are decreasing in importance year by year with digital becoming the dominant distribution model.

 

This is actually why I find Nintendo’s policies on game pricing so perplexing. While they have some truly evergreen titles that don’t seem to need discounts to move units, they quite likely leave money on the table by ignoring the tiered nature of consumption and price elasticities. But the Japanese business mentality is substantially different than the American business mentality, so I suppose it is not entirely shocking that they pick a counter strategy and run with it. At least it largely seems to work even if they could maximize further.

[crispy4000]

2 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Piracy is a tricky issue to sort out the economics of, and anybody who argues it is definitively bad or definitively good likely doesn’t know what they are talking about. 
 

As a general rule, the same issues that people will point to regarding piracy are present in both the rental and used game markets where the content owners are not directly compensated for those secondary transactions, but few attempt to argue that such activity is the same moral or ethical ill that piracy represents.

 

I myself don’t pirate games, nor do I use unofficial emulation, but the truth is most people who pirate extensively would not have paid money for the bulk of what they pirate. Similarly, without secondary sales or rental markets, most of those buyers would not be full price consumers of the content.

 

This is actually why I find Nintendo’s policies on game pricing so perplexing. While they have some truly evergreen titles that don’t seem to need discounts to move units, they quite likely leave money on the table by ignoring the tiered nature of consumption and price elasticities. But the Japanese business mentality is substantially different than the American business mentality, so I suppose it is not entirely shocking that they pick a counter strategy and run with it. At least it largely seems to work even if they could maximize further.

 

There's other perplexing moves, like taking away the ability to digitally purchase the Mario 3D All-Stars collection.  Physical copies are now double the price it launched at.  Does Nintendo see any of that elevated sale money when a sale happens?  Nope.

[crispy4000]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

Video game companies that feel like they're getting hit by piracy should git gud on providing service. 

 

Gabe Newell: Piracy is an issue of service, not price | GamesRadar+

WWW.GAMESRADAR.COM

---

“Piracy is not a pricing issue,” insists Valve boss

 

 

The Nintendo specific issue here is that they release lesser powered hardware, and don't do enough with their mid-cycle machines to have any pretension of keeping up with the times.

 

But I think Nintendo already found their answer with the Switch.  Hone in on the portability selling point and people won't care as much.  The only thing that could spoil that for them is a legitimate competitor.

[Biggie]

1 hour ago, crispy4000 said:

Here's an idea, why doesn't Nintendo use emulation / backwards compatibility to sell them again on modern platforms?  Discount them heavily to encourage more people to buy them this time, like GoG does?

 

Or are you not willing to entertain such a solution, and instead choose to be salty about pirates playing abandonware.

I’ll go with salty

[Fizzzzle]

Spotify all but killed piracy in the music industry. How? By making basically any music you want legally available at the push of a button. Is everyone happy with the new arrangement? Fuck no! But for artists/labels, it was take 50% of something or 100% of nothing.

 

If you want to kill piracy for digital media, make your products easily accessible for a reasonable price and the vast majority of people will pay for it. Pirating things can be a pain in the ass sometimes.

 

Funny enough, Nintendo tried to sue Blockbuster in the 80s. Nintendo couldn't argue that the renting of games themselves was illegal (Microsoft lobbied for first-sale doctrine, meaning any copy of software/media purchased legally can be resold without royalties going to the original owner), so they went after Blockbuster for photocopying manuals. Blockbuster had to cease copying manuals (that's why you never see games with fake jackets on them at used game stores), but the right to rent out games was enshrined into law.

[Ghost_MH]

17 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

Spotify all but killed piracy in the music industry. How? By making basically any music you want legally available at the push of a button. Is everyone happy with the new arrangement? Fuck no! But for artists/labels, it was take 50% of something or 100% of nothing.

 

If you want to kill piracy for digital media, make your products easily accessible for a reasonable price and the vast majority of people will pay for it. Pirating things can be a pain in the ass sometimes.

 

Funny enough, Nintendo tried to sue Blockbuster in the 80s. Nintendo couldn't argue that the renting of games themselves was illegal (Microsoft lobbied for first-sale doctrine, meaning any copy of software/media purchased legally can be resold without royalties going to the original owner), so they went after Blockbuster for photocopying manuals. Blockbuster had to cease copying manuals (that's why you never see games with fake jackets on them at used game stores), but the right to rent out games was enshrined into law.

 

Eh, the barrier for games these days is pretty damn low. Everything is available digitally. I'm not even sure games could really be any cheaper these day. Nintendo has somehow managed to not need any major layoffs unlike the rest of the industry.

 

Would it be nice if Nintendo had their own Gamepass like subscription? Maybe? I'm not really sure I really want another  subscription service in my life. However, I have already given Nintendo $100 this year between Another Code and Princess Peach Showtime.

 

More than just regular piracy, Nintendo seems to be upset over folks playing leaked versions of unreleased games. They claim a million gamers were playing the TotK on Yuzu before the game's release. No clue where they pulled that number, though.

[crispy4000]

14 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

Eh, the barrier for games these days is pretty damn low. Everything is available digitally. I'm not even sure games could really be any cheaper these day. Nintendo has somehow managed to not need any major layoffs unlike the rest of the industry.

Nintendo games could stand to get a lot cheaper relative to standard AAA discounting, but they won’t, because they sell gangbusters still.  That and lower production costs have made them riches while the rest of the industry suffers.

 

I think they’ll hold off on a Games Pass-like service until it’s evident their consumer won’t follow them without it.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

27 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

If you want to kill piracy for digital media, make your products easily accessible for a reasonable price and the vast majority of people will pay for it. Pirating things can be a pain in the ass sometimes.

Yep. like I said, Nintendo should just release their library on PC too. The people that use Yuzu either bought a copy for switch and then use Yuzu to play it with better performance and mods, or people who pirated the game and wouldnt pay for it on Switch anyways. Nintendo didn’t lose 1m sales to piracy or whatever they were claiming. If Nintendo offered people a way to play their games on PC, people would pay them for it. 
 

Hire these modders to make an emulator of the switch 2, then make the switch 2 able to “dock” to a PC to authenticate and read the game files. Bam! People will buy a Switch 2, buy the game, and likely even pay for the emulator if it’s good and well supported. Would that 100% eliminate piracy? No. But nothing will. 

[crispy4000]

54 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

Yep. like I said, Nintendo should just release their library on PC too. The people that use Yuzu either bought a copy for switch and then use Yuzu to play it with better performance and mods, or people who pirated the game and wouldnt pay for it on Switch anyways. Nintendo didn’t lose 1m sales to piracy or whatever they were claiming. If Nintendo offered people a way to play their games on PC, people would pay them for it. 
 

Hire these modders to make an emulator of the switch 2, then make the switch 2 able to “dock” to a PC to authenticate and read the game files. Bam! People will buy a Switch 2, buy the game, and likely even pay for the emulator if it’s good and well supported. Would that 100% eliminate piracy? No. But nothing will. 

They’re not nearly as concerned about piracy as they are about preserving and protecting their hardware business at large.  They’d rather maximize their console royalties and control the family friendly narrative and user experience in absolute terms, even if their software could sell more than it already does and would get pirated less.

 

The Switch seems to suggest they’re making the right choices too.  At least for its moment in time.  Nintendo doesn’t need to rely on the rest of the industry.

[stepee]

The “unofficial” yuzu’s are already popping up, I’m sure a certain branch will be the defacto one at some point. Also of course there is ryujinx and melonds and well, Citra is essentially complete. 

 

This will of course not actually stop anyone from pirating anything ever. People who want to pirate stuff will continue to learn how to google and do so and hackers, coders, and enthusiasts will continue to improve emulation of Nintendo machines. The next Nintendo system will still probably be emulated with commercial games running within a couple years.

 

Ive been following emulation for way too long to be concerned about any of this on any practical level. I just think its bad PR that accomplishes literally nothing. 

 

The one thing that I was concerned about on a small level was answered by Emudeck today in an email to supporters:

 

“If you already have EmuDeck installed don't worry, they won't stop working, and EmuDeck won't delete them from your systems.

- If you don't, well... we are keeping the configurations so if you end up finding some backup of the app in some forgotten disk... you can just copy the emulators and configure the emulators using EmuDeck, ESDE and Steam should pick them up just fine.”

 

So all that sounds easy enough still.

 

 

[Bacon]

What's funny is that the games I have obtained "for free" don't need to be emulated.

[GameDadGrant]

8 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said:

Like I said earlier. Emulation is not piracy.

You can pirate with just a hack on your console. I think there is a card for the switch you can just stick it in and play any game.

 

An emulator allows you to play a game you already own on not original hardware.

 

 

Anyway this is all rich coming from @GameDadGrant who bought his kid a Wii-U so he could EMULATE Nintendo online and play games on a fake Nintendo network.

 

Haha to be fair though, he’s playing games we have bought legit, and the fake Nintendo network is the only way to play the OG Splatoon online anymore.

 

Emulation is not a big deal in my book. Piracy is a different story. 
 

Besides, it’s Wii U. Who cares. LOL 😝 

[Ghost_MH]

5 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

Nintendo games could stand to get a lot cheaper relative to standard AAA discounting, but they won’t, because they sell gangbusters still.  That and lower production costs have made them riches while the rest of the industry suffers.

 

I think they’ll hold off on a Games Pass-like service until it’s evident their consumer won’t follow them without it.

 

I do wonder what Nintendo's production costs actually are. I'm sure they aren't crazy like Sony, but Nintendo also pays their devs enough to keep them loyal and puts out many games that have years long dev cycles.

[Bacon]

Something that also harms the gaming industry is third-party reselling and letting your friends borrow your games.

[crispy4000]

35 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

I do wonder what Nintendo's production costs actually are. I'm sure they aren't crazy like Sony, but Nintendo also pays their devs enough to keep them loyal and puts out many games that have years long dev cycles.

 

Probably offset by smaller team sizes.  And the success stories they've had with Wii U ports, and half baked goldmines like Super Mario Party.

[LazyPiranha]

Nintendo is absolutely the harshest on piracy of the big three, but at the same time I honestly wonder what some of these teams are thinking.  Nintendo is openly known to be extremely litigious, you’re actively developing emulation software for their current generation console, AND you have a patreon taking money for it.  It’s like painting a target onto itself and sending their attorneys your exact gps coordinates.  
 

There is plenty of Nintendo emulation out there that they are seemingly content to leave be.  The Analogues and MiSTers of the world don’t seem to be getting sued into oblivion.  I’m sure part of it is the method of emulation, but I’m sure a huge part of it is the effort simply isn’t worth it for protecting games that are decades old and they aren’t actively selling in any capacity.