Nikki Haley planning Feb. 15 launch for 2024 White House bid

[SuperSpreader]

Woo boy I made the mistake of looking up project 2025, it's McCarthyism all over again 

[mclumber1]

Nikki Haley's Campaign Comet is going to smash into DJT and it will be glorious. 

[SuperSpreader]

6 hours ago, mclumber1 said:

Nikki Haley's Campaign Comet is going to smash into DJT and it will be glorious. 

 

And destroy the Earth! 

[Jason]

20 hours ago, Massdriver said:

I’m unconvinced Haley would enact Project 2025, but it’s possible. I’m absolutely convinced Trump would. I believe Biden will lose to Trump, so if Haley pulls off some sort of improbable primary upset, I’ll take it even as I disagree with her on a lot of issues. 

 

I still really just don't buy Trump winning in 2024 given he cost the GOP dearly in 2018, 2020, 2022, 2023...right now his polling is benefiting from low-attention voters who tune out between elections not hearing much about his legal troubles and not being exposed to how much more blatantly demented he is compared to even just November 2022.

[Massdriver]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

 

I still really just don't buy Trump winning in 2024 given he cost the GOP dearly in 2018, 2020, 2022, 2023...right now his polling is benefiting from low-attention voters who tune out between elections not hearing much about his legal troubles and not being exposed to how much more blatantly demented he is compared to even just November 2022.

I hope you’re right. 

[chakoo]

2 hours ago, Jason said:

 

I still really just don't buy Trump winning in 2024 given he cost the GOP dearly in 2018, 2020, 2022, 2023...right now his polling is benefiting from low-attention voters who tune out between elections not hearing much about his legal troubles and not being exposed to how much more blatantly demented he is compared to even just November 2022.

I don’t either for the same reasons you mentioned.

[best3444]

My dad is in love with Nikki Haley lol.

[Keyser_Soze]

Haley declines to say slavery was cause of Civil War - POLITICO

WWW.POLITICO.COM

---

The former South Carolina governor instead said it was a dispute over how ‘government was going to run.’

 

[Spork3245]

30 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

Haley declines to say slavery was cause of Civil War - POLITICO

WWW.POLITICO.COM

---

The former South Carolina governor instead said it was a dispute over how ‘government was going to run.’

 

[Spork3245]

[johnny]

the most frustrating thing about the civil war “debate” is when they provide an answer other than slavery it all just comes back to slavery anyway and they won’t admit it! 

[SuperSpreader]

On 12/24/2023 at 2:57 PM, SuperSpreader said:

Woo boy I made the mistake of looking up project 2025, it's McCarthyism all over again 

 

btw Dubya tried the same shit, in case our American jello minds have forgotten.

[TUFKAK]

34 minutes ago, johnny said:

the most frustrating thing about the civil war “debate” is when they provide an answer other than slavery it all just comes back to slavery anyway and they won’t admit it! 

“It was about states rights!”
 

And what rights were those?

 

“It was about economic freedom!”

 

What was that economy based on?

[Fizzzzle]

36 minutes ago, johnny said:

the most frustrating thing about the civil war “debate” is when they provide an answer other than slavery it all just comes back to slavery anyway and they won’t admit it! 

The problem is people arguing in bad faith will latch on to this anti-straw man that the American government was fighting to free black people, which is objectively not true. IE "the war wasn't about slavery - "If I could save the union by blah blah blah, etc""

 

As always, nuance is the death of understanding. The American government was definitely not fighting to end slavery, at least for the first couple years.  The government of the Confederacy, however, abso-fucking-lutely was fighting to preserve slavery. It shows up in every fucking state secession letter, plain as a black person in a sea of cotton. I'll grant you most of the confederate foot soldiers weren't necessarily fighting to preserve slavery, but that was undeniably why the Confederacy was fighting the war.

 

Something that doesn't get talked about enough (partly because I have no idea if it really has any basis in fact/intention, but I hope it does), is the master stroke that the Emancipation Proclamation had in turning the war against the Confederacy. See, like I said earlier, up until that point, the American military was emphatically *not* fighting to free the enslaved people. The Emancipation Proclamation only freed enslaved people *in areas that were still in active rebellion,* meaning it did not affect enslaved people in Missouri, Delaware, Maryland, Kentucky, or I believe, the parts of Tennessee that had been re-conquered. Not to mention it was just a wartime measure, not a binding law.

 

What the Emancipation Proclamation DID do, however, was make the civil war about slavery. It may not have been about slavery before (from the northern perspective), but it sure as shit was now! Consequently, there was a wave of mass desertion in the Union ranks. How much of this wave of mass desertion was because of the EP or simply because it was winter and the men were just cold and sick of losing a lot, who knows, but there is one more important thing - by making the Civil War about freeing enslaved people through the Emancipation Proclamation, Lincoln 100% guaranteed that Britain could never, ever, ever outwardly support the Confederacy. And British support was the only hope the Confederacy ever had of winning.

 

 

Sorry, I got lost on a tangent there. Also people love to throw around the fact that "only [x amount] of white southerners owned slaves." In the south in general, something like a third of all southern families owned at least one enslaved person. In deep cotton states, it was more like half. When you factor in most of the non-slave-owning white people working service jobs to support the slaver families, it becomes pretty clear that the idea of "most of the white people in Mississippi were just subsistence farmers minding their own business" is hogwash. Not to say they didn't exist (see the free state of Jones), but they were NOT a majority of people. The vast majority of white people in the south (especially the deep south, not so much in Virginia by 1860) either directly participated in or directly benefited from the institution of slavery.

[SuperSpreader]

25 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

And British support was the only hope the Confederacy ever had of winning.

 

And that's why they have that stupid accent 

[outsida]

[Air_Delivery]

"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world." - Mississippi

[Greatoneshere]

She probably didn't say it was slavery because she wants the CHUD vote even if Trump has that tied up. She isn't stupid, she's just craven. Anyone with half a brain in this day and age (so not a lot of CHUDs) knows the Civil War was about slavery, whether that was spelled out or not at the time, and anyone like Nikki Haley who says otherwise is doing so for a reason.

[SuperSpreader]

33 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

(so not a lot of CHUDs) knows the Civil War was about slavery

 

They know too

[Air_Delivery]

37 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

She probably didn't say it was slavery because she wants the CHUD vote even if Trump has that tied up. She isn't stupid, she's just craven. Anyone with half a brain in this day and age (so not a lot of CHUDs) knows the Civil War was about slavery, whether that was spelled out or not at the time, and anyone like Nikki Haley who says otherwise is doing so for a reason.

I see you have never been to the South.

[Greatoneshere]

47 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said:

They know too

 

They can't even name who made up the Axis of Evil or even what that is if you don't mention WWII to help them out. I'm not giving the average CHUD any credit because the average person is stupid, so the average CHUD even moreso. They most likely believe what Fizzzle said, which is their families had their own farms and didn't own slaves or some bullshit.

 

43 minutes ago, Air_Delivery said:

I see you have never been to the South.

 

How do you mean? 

[Air_Delivery]

Just now, Greatoneshere said:

 

They can't even name who made up the Axis of Evil or even what that is if you don't mention WWII to help them out. I'm not giving the average CHUD any credit because the average person is stupid, so the average CHUD even moreso. They most likely believe what Fizzzle said, which is their families had their own farms and didn't own slaves or some bullshit.

 

 

How do you mean? 

Large swaths of the South have been taught "alternate" history about the Civil War.

[Greatoneshere]

33 minutes ago, Air_Delivery said:

Large swaths of the South have been taught "alternate" history about the Civil War.

 

Yes, I agree. Large swathes of the South are also CHUDs which is why I said "so not a lot of CHUDs".  

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

9 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

Anyone with half a brain in this day and age (so not a lot of CHUDs) knows the Civil War was about slavery, whether that was spelled out or not at the time...

 

It absolutely was repeatedly spelled out at the time by the leaders of the Confederacy themselves.

[Greatoneshere]

6 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

It absolutely was repeatedly spelled out at the time by the leaders of the Confederacy themselves.

 

It definitely was, but I was giving wiggle room to Fizzzle's point that for the North it wasn't about slavery "initially". It doesn't matter though what people back then thought about the Civil War, it's clear it was about slavery in hindsight either way.

[TUFKAK]

1 hour ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

It definitely was, but I was giving wiggle room to Fizzzle's point that for the North it wasn't about slavery "initially". It doesn't matter though what people then thought about the Civil War, it's clear it was about slavery in hindsight either way.

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

1 minute ago, TUFKAK said:

 

@Fizzzzle 

[TUFKAK]

Just now, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

@Fizzzzle 

Tagged for later 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Just now, TUFKAK said:

Tagged for later 

 

Atun-Shie is one of @Fizzzzle's favorite YouTube channels.

 

 

[Greatoneshere]

4 hours ago, TUFKAK said:

 

 

[Massdriver]

15 hours ago, Air_Delivery said:

Large swaths of the South have been taught "alternate" history about the Civil War.

I was taught in a dual credit college course on American History that it was a states' rights issue. My professor had a large confederate battle flag in his yard. 

[SaysWho?]

5 minutes ago, Massdriver said:

I was taught in a dual credit college course on American History that it was a states' rights issue. My professor had a large confederate battle flag in his yard. 

 

I don't know if it's still the case, but there was a time when well-meaning liberals could be fooled by this. I thought this for a while in the 2000s. It was actually Iron-and-Wine @ByWatterson, the first time I met him when he was still a Republican, who educated me on that. Something like "That's actually revisionist history," and he talked about the wants by southern states for the federal government to intervene in cases where northern states would grant freedom to slaves who fled, and then he listed off all these things southern states didn't complain about that came from the federal government.

 

I feel like many on the left and center have wisened up to it, which might be just because I did, but the number of confederate statues that have come down and the more direct attacks on the myth of states rights have felt much louder over the past decade.

[Fizzzzle]

7 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

Atun-Shie is one of @Fizzzzle's favorite YouTube channels.

 

 

I totally forgot about that! That was a fun read.

[Greatoneshere]

1 hour ago, SaysWho? said:

 

I don't know if it's still the case, but there was a time when well-meaning liberals could be fooled by this. I thought this for a while in the 2000s. It was actually Iron-and-Wine @ByWatterson, the first time I met him when he was still a Republican, who educated me on that. Something like "That's actually revisionist history," and he talked about the wants by southern states for the federal government to intervene in cases where northern states would grant freedom to slaves who fled, and then he listed off all these things southern states didn't complain about that came from the federal government.

 

I feel like many on the left and center have wisened up to it, which might be just because I did, but the number of confederate statues that have come down and the more direct attacks on the myth of states rights have felt much louder over the past decade.

 

No, you're right, this was definitely a thing among liberals. That's what I was driving at when I said: "in this day and age most know the truth about the Civil War at this point" except CHUD's. 

[Spork3245]

12 hours ago, Massdriver said:

I was taught in a dual credit college course on American History that it was a states' rights issue. My professor had a large confederate battle flag in his yard. 

Very high ranking and well educated military officers that I know and have trained have unironically referred to the Civil War as the “war of northern aggression”. “History is written by the winners” is false. Completely forgiving the south and not holding that shitty flag as a traitor’s flag were mistakes.