Texas governor Abbot has directed Family and Protective Services to begin investigating all trans children in Texas and prosecuting their parents as abusers

Kamusha · February 23, 2022

This is some scary shit. And if you are a teacher in Texas you legally have to report any trans kids. This is truly upsetting.

Comet · February 23, 2022

Yup, and my wife is a teacher in Texas

**Kal-El814** · February 23, 2022

The malleability of conservative groupthink is truly impressive. Knowing they've lost the battle against gay people, they just move to an adjacent target.

May all the gods I do not believe in damn all these hateful people to hell.

b_m_b_m_b_m · February 23, 2022

5 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

The malleability of conservative groupthink is truly impressive. Knowing they've lost the battle against gay people, they just move to an adjacent target.

May all the gods I do not believe in damn all these hateful people to hell.

Anathema- · February 23, 2022

Literal fascist shit.

SuperSpreader · February 23, 2022

This feels very W Bush administration.

February 23, 2022

Did anybody read the document? Because it doesn’t require CPS to investigate all trans children, it requires CPS to investigate all reported cases of violations of the law regarding specific medical procedures for transitioning minors.

I don’t think it is a terrible thing to leave irreversible (in the case of reassignment surgeries) and still developing areas of practice like long term development effects of puberty-blockers to the discretion of the individual when they are an adult. But I also think generally parents should have a lot of leeway in deciding medical questions for their children.

b_m_b_m_b_m · February 23, 2022

25 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Did anybody read the document? Because it doesn’t require CPS to investigate all trans children, it requires CPS to investigate all reported cases of violations of the law regarding specific medical procedures for transitioning minors.

I don’t think it is a terrible thing to leave irreversible (in the case of reassignment surgeries) and still developing areas of practice like long term development effects of puberty-blockers to the discretion of the individual when they are an adult. But I also think generally parents should have a lot of leeway in deciding medical questions for their children.

As a mandatory reporter my wife had to report her cousin because she heard second hand rumors of child abuse which were ultimately untrue and circulated by an angry ex. When the threat is “report or you can lose your livelihood” you tend to err on the side of “not being homeless”

All this will do is further stigmatize trans kids and subject their families to a broken and dangerous system while chilling discussion of effective treatments for those who desire this help. But your second paragraph is FUD, puberty blockers and gender affirming surgery are not something you just waltz into the doctors office one day and decide to do; it’s not mere cosmetic surgery. There’s a lot of way to be gener affirming for minors without these things and they require a comprehensive approach to the health and well being of the child. There are risks like in any medical treatment, but that’s best resolved between the patient, doctors, and their family in the case of a minor. And it’s clear from these republicans they don’t have a good faith interest in the health of trans kids, they just want their culture war issue.

Keyser_Soze · February 23, 2022

Bugs Bunny sawing off Texas.gif

February 23, 2022

Just now, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

But your second paragraph is FUD, puberty blockers and gender affirming surgery are not something you just waltz into the doctors office one day and decide to do; it’s not mere cosmetic surgery. There are risks like in any medical treatment, but that’s best resolved between the patient, doctors, and their family in the case of a minor.

The AAP’s own assessments of puberty blockers is that there aren’t currently long term studies showing the developmental effects when used in the manner they are for trans children. We will likely have good data on this in the next 3-5 years from what I’ve read in the last few months.

In regards to reassignment surgeries, what a child wants may not be what then adult them wants and being that you’re talking about the permanent change to the body, I would generally favor letting adults choose for themselves what their body will look like. It doesn’t matter to me whether all the other adults were using their best judgement.

MarSolo · February 23, 2022

I wish the oak tree had won it’s fight with Greg Abbott.

b_m_b_m_b_m · February 23, 2022

Again, It’s not a cosmetic nose job you don’t just schedule a reassignment surgery or prescribed puberty blockers then it happens. It’s worth leaving up to the patient, doctors, and families in the case of minors. I don’t think anyone here knows enough about this stuff to say otherwise.

It’s not, however, the place for unserious conservatives to look for a wedge issue to gain power at the expense of vulnerable kids and “well ackshully” libs to give deference or post hoc justification for their bullshit.

February 23, 2022

2 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Again, It’s not a cosmetic nose job you don’t just schedule a reassignment surgery or prescribed puberty blockers then it happens. It’s worth leaving up to the patient, doctors, and families in the case of minors. I don’t think anyone here knows enough about this stuff to say otherwise.

I don’t know why you keep repeating that, it is irrelevant to my position. No matter how informed all parties are, the patient is still a minor and is making a permanent decision for their body. I don’t think it is unreasonable for any such decisions to be left to people when they are adults. But I am open to more information that makes the case that such surgeries are on balance better to occur at 16 than 18+.

Uaarkson · February 23, 2022

Kick Texas out

CitizenVectron · February 23, 2022

34 minutes ago, Uaarkson said:

Kick Texas out

Multi-party swap:

UK (being so anti-trans) takes Texas. The rest of the south makes the Confederacy II. The remaining states become USA II, except for Maine, Minnesota, and Washington, which join Canada in exchange for Alberta and Saskatchewan joining Confederacy II. $100,000 is thrown in by Confederacy II so that my wife and I can move to Vancouver.

b_m_b_m_b_m · February 23, 2022

1 hour ago, sblfilms said:

I don’t know why you keep repeating that, it is irrelevant to my position. No matter how informed all parties are, the patient is still a minor and is making a permanent decision for their body. I don’t think it is unreasonable for any such decisions to be left to people when they are adults. But I am open to more information that makes the case that such surgeries are on balance better to occur at 16 than 18+.

that’s all irrelevant

All it takes is “cause to believe” that a case of abuse due to “illegal surgeries or treatments” for a mandatory reporter to report the abuse even if it ultimately is legal. What this kicks off is the state in its (rightfully) most invasive form.

So a known trans kid could be overheard talking about, say, a groin surgery due to an injury which could wind up getting lost in translation when a mandatory reporter gets word of this it may be enough “cause to believe” this abuse has or will take place they must report, and a case would be investigated which may cause the child to be removed from the home even if everything is actually legal! That’s horrifying for anyone let alone a child who is transgender where there are already significant mental health issues associated with gender dysphoria including self harm and suicide. That’s where the biggest issue is. Because these treatments are rarely if ever used, and because there is a narrow scope of understanding of what is illegal and constitutes abuse (to say nothing of the political will on the right to go after people providing reversible gender affirming care to trans children) it opens up the very real possibility of unnecessary and undue harassment by the state of the families of trans kids who only want to help their children affirm their true selves in a safe, medically acceptable, and legal way.

LazyPiranha · February 23, 2022

1 hour ago, sblfilms said:

Did anybody read the document? Because it doesn’t require CPS to investigate all trans children, it requires CPS to investigate all reported cases of violations of the law regarding specific medical procedures for transitioning minors.

I don’t think it is a terrible thing to leave irreversible (in the case of reassignment surgeries) and still developing areas of practice like long term development effects of puberty-blockers to the discretion of the individual when they are an adult. But I also think generally parents should have a lot of leeway in deciding medical questions for their children.

Yes, I read it. It’s written to give a veneer of credibility to something that is outrageous and unjust.

Let’s brush aside any questions about the efficacy/effectiveness/long term studies of the procedures and medicines mentioned for the time being because they aren’t relevant to the point. The fact is that many, many trans kids have done none of those things. Maybe they just dress different, present different, whatever, but have never done any of the actual codified restrictions. How is a teacher or any other licensed professional that works with children supposed to know that occurred? Unless a child literally tells you, you as an uniformed outsider can only speculate, which is the entire point. You, the outsider are now placed into a position where you have to make a choice. Do you do nothing and take the chance that your own lack of reporting will be deemed acceptable, or do you err on the side of caution and report this kid and their family to CPS to avoid the threat of criminal prosecution and loss of your job and license?

That also assumes that all educators and the like are actually compassionate people and not outright bigots, which is a bad assumption to make. You think there aren’t teachers out there who will happily narc out young trans kids with glee because the state government just gave them a huge thumbs up? You think hateful assholes won’t call CPS specifically to fuck with kids and families they don’t approve of? If Texas is anything like my state, EVERY report has to be investigated, so what does that mean in this instance? Can someone call every day because they think the kid next door started taking estrogen this afternoon because they went to the Rite-Aid, for real this time?

Whatever the paper says, the intent is open and obvious. It is a way to lawfully harass trans children and their families, it is a way to force unwilling participants to harass trans kids and their families, and it is a way to force trans kids and their families to hide that fact for fear of constant inspection. Even if you accept the paper thin argument that this is really actually a way to prevent harm in the form of a newer field of medicine, this intentionally catches so many other people in the crossfire.

b_m_b_m_b_m · February 23, 2022

7 minutes ago, LazyPiranha said:

Yes, I read it. It’s written to give a veneer of credibility to something that is outrageous and unjust.

Let’s brush aside any questions about the efficacy/effectiveness/long term studies of the procedures and medicines mentioned for the time being because they aren’t relevant to the point. The fact is that many, many trans kids have done none of those things. Maybe they just dress different, present different, whatever, but have never done any of the actual codified restrictions. How is a teacher or any other licensed professional that works with children supposed to know that occurred? Unless a child literally tells you, you as an uniformed outsider can only speculate, which is the entire point. You, the outsider are now placed into a position where you have to make a choice. Do you do nothing and take the chance that your own lack of reporting will be deemed acceptable, or do you err on the side of caution and report this kid and their family to CPS to avoid the threat of criminal prosecution and loss of your job and license?

That also assumes that all educators and the like are actually compassionate people and not outright bigots, which is a bad assumption to make. You think there aren’t teachers out there who will happily narc out young trans kids with glee because the state government just gave them a huge thumbs up? You think hateful assholes won’t call CPS specifically to fuck with kids and families they don’t approve of? If Texas is anything like my state, EVERY report has to be investigated, so what does that mean in this instance? Can someone call every day because they think the kid next door started taking estrogen this afternoon because they went to the Rite-Aid, for real this time?

Whatever the paper says, the intent is open and obvious. It is a way to lawfully harass trans children and their families, it is a way to force unwilling participants to harass trans kids and their families, and it is a way to force trans kids and their families to hide that fact for fear of constant inspection. Even if you accept the paper thin argument that this is really actually a way to prevent harm in the form of a newer field of medicine, this intentionally catches so many other people in the crossfire.

Not just transgender children but any child where there is “cause to believe” that this abuse is taking place. This could be any gender non conforming, or “different”, child. Could a outwardly male child wearing a dress create “cause to believe” there is this “abuse” happening? If you torture logic enough maybe!

once again it’s conservatives using the power of individuals to access state power to enforce the social hierarchy in a way that they and only they see fit. The point isn’t strict adherence to the law but to harass and intimidate.

February 23, 2022

I actually have personal experience with CPS, and I sadly must chuckle at the notion that there will be children taken from homes or likely anything beyond an initial interview with the parents.

They barely do anything if kids have visible signs of abuse because keeping children in their home is the highest priority, not the actual welfare of the child.

b_m_b_m_b_m · February 23, 2022

It’s no big thing for the state to harass people for dumb reasons

**Commissar SFLUFAN** · February 23, 2022

Fantastic timing by The Atlantic:

Ghost_MH · February 23, 2022

41 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

I actually have personal experience with CPS, and I sadly must chuckle at the notion that there will be children taken from homes or likely anything beyond an initial interview with the parents.

They barely do anything if kids have visible signs of abuse because keeping children in their home is the highest priority, not the actual welfare of the child.

That wildly depends on whatever social worker just happens to take on the case. DCF, as it's called here in Massachusetts, has totally taken kids from parents I know over suspicions levied against them by "credible sources". In the two cases I can think of one was claims of drug abuse that were later cleared and another was of neglect that was also cleared.

My wife is a mandatory reporter. Cases she's made calls over have either been pretty much ignored or thoroughly looked into, and they've all been incredibly random from her perspective. Unfortunately, this country puts no money into child welfare, so you get a ton of incredibly unqualified people working in this field simply because nobody else wants to do this work. It sucks, but that's just negligence on the part of the state, not a noble desire to not break up families.

Get a true believer in there that's anti-trans and you can bet that social worker will do what they can to get that kid from under their parents' roof.

February 23, 2022

14 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

That wildly depends on whatever social worker just happens to take on the case.

It really doesn’t in the Texas system. Decades of underfunding has lead to caseloads here so massive that a significant percentage of reports never get an actual contact at all

Ghost_MH · February 23, 2022

25 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

It really doesn’t in the Texas system. Decades of underfunding has lead to caseloads here so massive that a significant percentage of reports never get an actual contact at all

And that's another reason why culture war bullshit shouldn't be thrown onto the pile. Even in a state like Massachusetts, social workers still get to pick and choose cases since there are so many to sort through and not enough people to do the sorting. Like I said, get a true believer in the mix and there are going to workers that will hyper focus on those cases over a he said/she said child neglect case.

Kamusha · February 24, 2022

5 hours ago, sblfilms said:

Did anybody read the document? Because it doesn’t require CPS to investigate all trans children, it requires CPS to investigate all reported cases of violations of the law regarding specific medical procedures for transitioning minors.

I don’t think it is a terrible thing to leave irreversible (in the case of reassignment surgeries) and still developing areas of practice like long term development effects of puberty-blockers to the discretion of the individual when they are an adult. But I also think generally parents should have a lot of leeway in deciding medical questions for their children.

Not only did I read the document, but I’m also reading in between the lines here. This isn’t the time to be literal. This bill is about bullying trans kids and creating a culture of fear around them coming out. Focusing on whether or not CPS in Texas is effective or not is missing the larger point here. It has more to do with the looming threat of losing your kids just by trying to help them feel comfortable in their own skin.

Studies have show that when a minor declares themselves to be trans it is not something that they walk back on when they get older. Their identity is a firm as a cisgender kid of that age. The idea that trans kids are being pressured into decisions that they may end up regretting is a conservative talking point.

Anathema- · February 24, 2022

This is creating a permissive structure for the gestapo. American fascism is in the discretion.

Brian · February 24, 2022

i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2022%2F0224%2Fr978536_1

USWNT players wear 'Protect Trans Kids' wristbands in SheBelieves Cup victory over Iceland in Texas

WWW.ESPN.COM

Several players from the United States women's national team wore athletic tape on their wrists with "Protect Trans Kids" written on it.

johnny · February 24, 2022

In california the kids who we know are trans are somewhat protected by the school if their parents don't know/don't approve. we know if talking to a parent whether or not we need to use their dead name and what pronouns. they get to use the other bathroom and most of the time the other students don't care. shocking!

**brucoe** · February 24, 2022

As an educator in Texas, the thing that really drives me nuts is this continuous approach to draft all of us as some kind of secret police force to enforce these stupid decisions made by religious nutjobs. I became an educator to educate, to teach, to pass on knowledge, not to wear the Nightwatch's super secret armband that identifies us as vassals of the state, ready to pounce on any infraction that someone doesn't seem to like.

God, I fucking hate this shit.

SuperSpreader · February 24, 2022

Just now, brucoe said:

As an educator in Texas, the thing that really drives me nuts is this continuous approach to draft all of us as some kind of secret police force to enforce these stupid decisions made by religious nutjobs. I became an educator to educate, to teach, to pass on knowledge, not to where the Nightwatch's super secret armband that identifies us as vassals of the state, ready to pounce on any infraction that someone doesn't seem to like.

God, I fucking hate this shit.

Small gubmint

Kamusha · February 25, 2022

Chris- · March 1, 2022

On 2/23/2022 at 3:39 PM, sblfilms said:

I actually have personal experience with CPS, and I sadly must chuckle at the notion that there will be children taken from homes or likely anything beyond an initial interview with the parents.

They barely do anything if kids have visible signs of abuse because keeping children in their home is the highest priority, not the actual welfare of the child.

Uh huh

March 1, 2022

27 minutes ago, Chris- said:

Uh huh

Without getting too deep into the weeds, this is a Rosa Parks move intended to give standing to file suit.

marioandsonic · March 1, 2022

3 hours ago, Chris- said:

Uh huh

Thank goodness there's a political party committed to small govenment & keeping govenment out of people's lives as much as possible

Kamusha · March 2, 2022

Advocacy groups sue Texas to halt state from investigating parents of trans kids

19THNEWS.ORG

As some families in Texas prepare for worst-case scenarios, the American Civil Liberties Union and Lambda Legal have sued the governor to prevent the state’s...

It’s literally already happening.

“It’s as bad as it’s ever been,” said Angela Hale, a spokesperson for Equality Texas. “We have fended all of this off for a decade.”

Hale said Child Protective Services has been arriving at the homes and schools of a handful of transgender children across the state.

Texas governor Abbot has directed Family and Protective Services to begin investigating all trans children in Texas and prosecuting their parents as abusers

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