General Gaming Rumour: PlayStation 5 Is More Powerful Than Xbox Scarlett, According To Devs

[Mercury33]

29 minutes ago, Bacon said:

I think all console UI is slow except for Nintendo's. The 360 was perfect before the first change. 

Bring back the blades!!

 

ive enjoyed the UI of MS consoles both times initially. Then by the time their respective generations ended MS had, for some reason, made 20+ increasingly horrible changes to them. Resulting in a spectacular steaming pile of garbage. 

[CastlevaniaNut18]

27 minutes ago, Dodger said:

 

Microsoft is no longer try to sell you a console. It’s now trying to sell you Games Pass, or failing that some of its games on PC

Game Pass doesn't fit my play style, so I have no interest in it, but I'm sure I'll end up getting a few of their games since they're now on PC.

[JPDunks4]

What other services are comparable to Gamepass other than EA Access right now?  

 

Genuinely curious as I don't really recall any others.

[Duderino]

9 hours ago, Mr.Vic20 said:

Regardless of one being slightly more powerful than the other, the difference will be sufficiently small that you'll have to look really hard to find any real world difference. 

 

Visually I can’t imagine we’ll see much of gap.  Loading and asset streaming however is where I suspect one console will have a clear leg up.  Possibly frame-rates too when streaming is the bottleneck.

 

Who knows which system that will be; both Sony and Microsoft are looking to innovate in this department.

[Spork3245]

10 minutes ago, JPDunks4 said:

What other services are comparable to Gamepass other than EA Access right now?  

 

Genuinely curious as I don't really recall any others.

 

PSNow, though, I think that’s just older titles. However, supposedly some publishers are “looking into” creating their own iirc.

[JPDunks4]

13 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

 

PSNow, though, I think that’s just older titles. However, supposedly some publishers are “looking into” creating their own iirc.

 

I didn’t know they added the ability to download titles.  Are all Sony’s first party games on there now.  I may need to check it out.

[Spork3245]

1 minute ago, JPDunks4 said:

 

I didn’t know they added the ability to download titles.  Are all Sony’s first party games on there now.  I may need to check it out.

 

I think it’s just streaming...? Not sure, I don’t have it.  

[crispy4000]

2 hours ago, number305 said:

There are other services like gamepass... Like ea access.  But I don't see any that compare to the value. Look at the games added in the last month. Look at the games coming this fall. 

Don't think anyone would deny that Games Pass, currently, is the best recurring subscription.  In part because of the line-up.  But also with the firesale discounts they've been promoting to get people on board.

The future is less certain.  Publishers are already attempting to splinter off their own subscriptions, and/or sell their wares to other bidders (like Google, EA, etc).  Microsoft will be an established player.  But it could largely come down to their own games vs other publishers' libraries.  When SquareEnix launches their service, for example, I doubt we would see the Tomb Raider trilogy stay on Games Pass.

We also haven't seen some of the biggest players make moves yet.  What happens if Activision enters the ring?  2K?   

 

I think people are also underselling Ubisoft's subscription.  It's an existential threat to EA's subs right now, at the very least.  It'll also beat Microsoft to the cloud.

[SoberChef]

13 hours ago, Rodimus said:

Well at least this is interesting. I think the trick is MS will have 2 boxes at launch.

 

If I was either one I would keep those specs under warps until the last minute. Also keep a little head room. Nearly impossible task. 

 

What we heard is Scarlet is 4X more powerful than the One X so that Leaves the PS5 maybe somewhere north of this.

 

For me if the PS5 does turn out to be completely backwards compatible with all numbered PlayStations then I will buy no mater what someday.

Bottom line, Sony NEEDS to have full Back Compat to fully compete with what MS is offering going forward, if they don't then that is on them and short sighted to say the very least, it will shoot them in the foot as detractors will inevitably ask "WHY!?"

11 hours ago, Paperclyp said:

1. I would be pretty surprised. 

 

2. Moriarty is bad. 

 

Colin, it took me a number of years, but I've come to be at peace with the guy and not only respect but appreciate his view, perception, and point of view both in gaming and politics. What went down with Kinda Funny was bull shit and really it's what Greg Miller & CO. did TO Colin that's bad (to say the very least.)

[SoberChef]

Also, in terms of streaming ... who is actually down for this going forward? Please let me not only BUY the games I want to play but also allow me to keep a copy of that license in perpetuity no matter what going forward please & thank you. Fuck streaming a game.

 

Spoiler

Did I come off as too much of a curmudgeon there?

 

[Dodger]

I think Sony should stick with the $399 price point. If the PS5 is a 10 tf machine at $399 and the Scarlett is 12tf at $499, how many people are jumping to the Xbox just because it’s more powerful? 

 

Maybe it’s the reverse, Scarlett will be $399 and highlights Games Pass as the best value in gaming while the PS5 is the $499 beast

[SaysWho?]

5 hours ago, JPDunks4 said:

 

I didn’t know they added the ability to download titles.  Are all Sony’s first party games on there now.  I may need to check it out.

 

5 hours ago, Spork3245 said:

 

I think it’s just streaming...? Not sure, I don’t have it.  

 

They added downloads a while ago so you can play offline.

[number305]

6 hours ago, SoberChef said:

Also, in terms of streaming ... who is actually down for this going forward? Please let me not only BUY the games I want to play but also allow me to keep a copy of that license in perpetuity no matter what going forward please & thank you. Fuck streaming a game.

 

  Hide contents

Did I come off as too much of a curmudgeon there?

 

You don't sound like a curmudgeon... You sound like a person buying dvd's 10 years ago. We are just at the very beginning of of game streaming. In a decade buying a console will seem backwards. 

[SaysWho?]

We still have people buying vinyl, getting MP3s as part of the purchase and wanting to own the music. That demand allowed what is an old technology to resurface with new artists putting their work on records.

 

Streaming is growing, but wanting to actually own your stuff is something that a percentage of people will always demand because it's better than not owning it or watching it leave for no reason, especially with games that need to be de-listed due to licensing reasons.

 

To this day, buying a 4K player isn't backwards at all; it'll get you the best picture and is a great way to watch movies. All can co-exist and likely will next gen.

[Paperclyp]

7 hours ago, SoberChef said:

 

Colin, it took me a number of years, but I've come to be at peace with the guy and not only respect but appreciate his view, perception, and point of view both in gaming and politics. What went down with Kinda Funny was bull shit and really it's what Greg Miller & CO. did TO Colin that's bad (to say the very least.)

I don’t wanna derail this thread so I’ll just say that’s cool and that I disagree. 

[crispy4000]

1 hour ago, SaysWho? said:

We still have people buying vinyl, getting MP3s as part of the purchase and wanting to own the music. That demand allowed what is an old technology to resurface with new artists putting their work on records.

 

Streaming is growing, but wanting to actually own your stuff is something that a percentage of people will always demand because it's better than not owning it or watching it leave for no reason, especially with games that need to be de-listed due to licensing reasons.

 

To this day, buying a 4K player isn't backwards at all; it'll get you the best picture and is a great way to watch movies. All can co-exist and likely will next gen.

 

Not just delisted for licensing reasons, but also because contracts expire.  Like with the Bioshock trilogy, Bayonetta, Megaman Legacy, etc.

 

In regards to Netflix, it’s more like delisting TV shows than movies considering how long games are. 

 

 

[TomCat]

18 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

 

Was with you until the 3rd party games thing.

 

Microsoft has gotten a few notable releases.  But publishers who play ball with them for newer releases are also potentially losing digital PC sales too, in addition to PS5 copies.  

 

I don’t think that’s going to make sense long term for anyone but indies.  

 

For a major publisher, the best business model is have your own successful subscription service and have the console manufacturers (and streaming outlets) bend down to you.

 

Google, for example, is giving Ubisoft everything they could want.

Phil has already dismissed this thinking. People kept saying that game pass would decrease MS games sales and Phil has said it has had the opposite effect. Game Pass has led to people buying MORE GAMES because they can try before they buy

[TomCat]

16 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

Don't think anyone would deny that Games Pass, currently, is the best recurring subscription.  In part because of the line-up.  But also with the firesale discounts they've been promoting to get people on board.

The future is less certain.  Publishers are already attempting to splinter off their own subscriptions, and/or sell their wares to other bidders (like Google, EA, etc).  Microsoft will be an established player.  But it could largely come down to their own games vs other publishers' libraries.  When SquareEnix launches their service, for example, I doubt we would see the Tomb Raider trilogy stay on Games Pass.

We also haven't seen some of the biggest players make moves yet.  What happens if Activision enters the ring?  2K?   

 

I think people are also underselling Ubisoft's subscription.  It's an existential threat to EA's subs right now, at the very least.  It'll also beat Microsoft to the cloud.

there is no value to Ubi's streaming service.  FIRST AND FOREMOST it's priced waaaaaaaaaaay to high.  No one is going to subscribe to ubi only games for 15bucks a month

 

[TomCat]

not sure why people are tripping about early dev kits.  none of them have any final silicon in them.  so why are people tripping about whats in them right now.  Wait til the final kits are released to worry about power.  the SOC's are not even in production yet.   

 

I dont believe that Sony will have the better system.  MS has stated that they will have HARDWARE RAYTRACING    Sony has not mentioned any kind of Hardware raytracing.

 

@AbsolutSurgen  custom architecture from MS was proven with the 1x.  they did alot of customizing to the acrhitecture to remove Hundreds of bottlenecks to make the system perform better.  Allowing it to be able to achieve NATIVE 4k  on games that people said it had not chance of achieving 

[crispy4000]

2 hours ago, TomCat said:

Phil has already dismissed this thinking. People kept saying that game pass would decrease MS games sales and Phil has said it has had the opposite effect. Game Pass has led to people buying MORE GAMES because they can try before they buy

 

That was the thought right before Crackdown 3 bombed at retail.  All that Games Pass marketing has finally caught up to them.

 

2 hours ago, TomCat said:

there is no value to Ubi's streaming service.  FIRST AND FOREMOST it's priced waaaaaaaaaaay to high.  No one is going to subscribe to ubi only games for 15bucks a month

 

Ubi’s subscription includes all their DLC and free 1080p streaming to mobile devices.

 

I agree they probably priced it too high.  But that’s nothing targeted discounts can’t address in the short term.

[TomCat]

18 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

 

That was the thought right before Crackdown 3 bombed at retail.  All that Games Pass marketing has finally caught up to them.

 

 

Ubi’s subscription includes all their DLC and free 1080p streaming to mobile devices.

 

I agree they probably priced it too high.  But that’s nothing targeted discounts can’t address in the short term.

thought?  I'm pretty sure he stated it as FACT. not sure how the Gamepass marketing has caught up with them?  They were the most profitible ever in the gaming division according to Brad Sams.  Are you going to pay 15$ a month for Ubi Games?

[number305]

12 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

We still have people buying vinyl, getting MP3s as part of the purchase and wanting to own the music. That demand allowed what is an old technology to resurface with new artists putting their work on records.

 

Streaming is growing, but wanting to actually own your stuff is something that a percentage of people will always demand because it's better than not owning it or watching it leave for no reason, especially with games that need to be de-listed due to licensing reasons.

 

To this day, buying a 4K player isn't backwards at all; it'll get you the best picture and is a great way to watch movies. All can co-exist and likely will next gen.

You are just reinforcing my points. 4k player sales are terrible. Samsung stopped making them a few months ago because so few sold. Vinyl sales are the very definition of backwards and hipster. 

 

That being said I have all that stuff and spend money on physical products when they are meaningful. I never said consoles would disappear, just that they won't be the standard in another decade. 

[Brian]

Here I thought Crackdown 3 bombed because it was a shitty game. 

 

https://www.opencritic.com/game/1515/crackdown-3

 

[HGLatinBoy]

The Xbox One was better than the PS4 too. Until Sony upped the 4 GB to 8 GB of GDDR 5 and then MS realized they fucked up. 

[SaysWho?]

15 minutes ago, number305 said:

You are just reinforcing my points. 4k player sales are terrible. Samsung stopped making them a few months ago because so few sold. Vinyl sales are the very definition of backwards and hipster. 

 

That being said I have all that stuff and spend money on physical products when they are meaningful. I never said consoles would disappear, just that they won't be the standard in another decade. 

 

Your point is that everyone is going to go to Game Pass and MS "wins" even if they sell fewer consoles, and that it's somehow backwards to want physical media. For the latter, I think it's just the wording: you probably mean old-fashioned because it's certainly not backwards to want to purchase a piece of media.

 

For the former, they're not the only cat in town, and console sales help drive everything, including amount of people on your streaming service.

[Kal-El814]

24 minutes ago, number305 said:

You are just reinforcing my points. 4k player sales are terrible. Samsung stopped making them a few months ago because so few sold. Vinyl sales are the very definition of backwards and hipster. 

They sell vinyl in Target and Best Buy, it's decidedly not hipster anymore and hasn't been for some time.

[number305]

18 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

Your point is that everyone is going to go to Game Pass and MS "wins" even if they sell fewer consoles, and that it's somehow backwards to want physical media. For the latter, I think it's just the wording: you probably mean old-fashioned because it's certainly not backwards to want to purchase a piece of media.

 

For the former, they're not the only cat in town, and console sales help drive everything, including amount of people on your streaming service.

I don't mean anything bad by backward. Old fashioned is a fine definition of what I meant. 

 

I don't think Ms is an automatic winner, but they are currently positioning themselves for the future better than most... Google is right there but it's hard to tell how dedicated they are. 

[number305]

21 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

They sell vinyl in Target and Best Buy, it's decidedly not hipster anymore and hasn't been for some time.

Vinyl sales increased 12% last year and cassette increased 19%.  However physical media overall decreased.  Vinyl is like buying a classic console, not a ps5

[Kal-El814]

2 minutes ago, number305 said:

Vinyl sales increased 12% last year and cassette increased 19%.  However physical media overall decreased.  Vinyl is like buying a classic console, not a ps5

Buying a classic console isn't a hipster move either.

[number305]

Just now, Kal-El814 said:

Buying a classic console isn't a hipster move either.

I have a snes classic and a beard. Pretty much proof. 

[SoberChef]

30 minutes ago, number305 said:

Vinyl sales increased 12% last year and cassette increased 19%.  However physical media overall decreased.  Vinyl is like buying a classic console, not a ps5

STFU THAT CANNOT BE A REAL THING!!

 

*EDIT*
...and a quick search later and OMFG NO WAY!

[AbsolutSurgen]

5 hours ago, TomCat said:

there is no value to Ubi's streaming service.  FIRST AND FOREMOST it's priced waaaaaaaaaaay to high.  No one is going to subscribe to ubi only games for 15bucks a month

 

Ubi doesn't have a streaming service.  They have announced a service like Origin Premiere or GamePass.

4 hours ago, TomCat said:

not sure why people are tripping about early dev kits.  none of them have any final silicon in them.  so why are people tripping about whats in them right now.  Wait til the final kits are released to worry about power.  the SOC's are not even in production yet.   

 

I dont believe that Sony will have the better system.  MS has stated that they will have HARDWARE RAYTRACING    Sony has not mentioned any kind of Hardware raytracing.

 

@AbsolutSurgen  custom architecture from MS was proven with the 1x.  they did alot of customizing to the acrhitecture to remove Hundreds of bottlenecks to make the system perform better.  Allowing it to be able to achieve NATIVE 4k  on games that people said it had not chance of achieving 

Dev kits are put out to give developers, in part, hardware specs to target for making their games.  If Sony's dev kit is "materially" more powerful than MS's, it is probable the final silicon will be as well.  The SOC's will both be Ryzen Zen 2/NAVI.

 

AMD has stated that NVidia style ray tracing from tensor cores is "years out" -- and near term implementation will be via shaders (which can be done with current video cards).  Since both MS and Sony are both using Ryzen Zen 2/NAVI -- they both should have very similar capability.

 

I won't bother to address your last point for obvious reasons.

 

Edit:  Revised to clarify Zen2

[TomCat]

15 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Ubi doesn't have a streaming service.  They have announced a service like Origin Premiere or GamePass.

Dev kits are put out to give developers, in part, hardware specs to target for making their games.  If Sony's dev kit is "materially" more powerful than MS's, it is probable the final silicon will be as well.  The SOC's will both be Ryzen 2/NAVI.

 

AMD has stated that NVidia style ray tracing from tensor cores is "years out" -- and near term implementation will be via shaders (which can be done with current video cards).  Since both MS and Sony are both using Ryzen 2/NAVI -- they both should have very similar capability.

 

I won't bother to address your last point for obvious reasons.

What ever Ubi's service is will you personally pay 15$ a month for it?   These arent even Final Dev. Kits.  they are just pc's that are suppose to give you the performance of the next gen system.  Things pretty much always get better with the specs as time goes by.  I'm not worried about what AMD said about their Raytracing.  I'm only concerned about what MS has said themselves.   They said they will have HARDWARE RAYTRCING.  MS is the one creating the standard for Raytracing with Direct X so I know their engineers will create the right hardware to take advantage of it.  Last rumour I seen was that the new box will be 12 cores and will use Navi20 to the ps5 using navi10

[AbsolutSurgen]

1 minute ago, TomCat said:

What ever Ubi's service is will you personally pay 15$ a month for it?   These arent even Final Dev. Kits.  they are just pc's that are suppose to give you the performance of the next gen system.  Things pretty much always get better with the specs as time goes by.  I'm not worried about what AMD said about their Raytracing.  I'm only concerned about what MS has said themselves.   They said they will have HARDWARE RAYTRCING.  MS is the one creating the standard for Raytracing with Direct X so I know their engineers will create the right hardware to take advantage of it.  Last rumour I seen was that the new box will be 12 cores and will use Navi20 to the ps5 using navi10

No.  But I don't pay for GamePass or Origin Premiere either.  I find I save money by just buying the games I want to pay most, when they are on sale.

Yes.  I know what the dev kits are.

 Ray tracing using shaders is still technically "hardware ray tracing" -- my GTX-1070 can technically do "hardware ray tracing" using shaders.  However, it is significantly less efficient than Nvidia's tensor cores.  AMD also said that NAVI will do ray tracing -- using shaders.

Are you arguing that MS is developing a chip for ray tracing that isn't developed by AMD?  If not, what are you saying?

 

Feel free to link rumours in this thread (or create a new one).

 

[Dre801]

Interesting.

 

What say you, colteastwood and Crapgamer?