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Rumour: PlayStation 5 Is More Powerful Than Xbox Scarlett, According To Devs


AbsolutSurgen

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15 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

No.  But I don't pay for GamePass or Origin Premiere either.  I find I save money by just buying the games I want to pay most, when they are on sale.

Yes.  I know what the dev kits are.

 Ray tracing using shaders is still technically "hardware ray tracing" -- my GTX-1070 can technically do "hardware ray tracing" using shaders.  However, it is significantly less efficient than Nvidia's tensor cores.  AMD also said that NAVI will do ray tracing -- using shaders.

Are you arguing that MS is developing a chip for ray tracing that isn't developed by AMD?  If not, what are you saying?

 

Feel free to link rumours in this thread (or create a new one).

 

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Xbox-Project-Scarlett-vs-PlayStation-5-Specs-comparison-table-and-latest-launch-price-speculation-for-both-consoles.423985.0.html

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2 hours ago, ManUtdRedDevils said:

Here I thought Crackdown 3 bombed because it was a shitty game. 

 

https://www.opencritic.com/game/1515/crackdown-3

 

:ohsnap:

 

Sea of Thieves also scored poorly at launch, but charted on NPDs.  So did State of Decay 2. Those games both came out at a time before Games Pass was popularized.  They were the publicity boost, you could argue.

 

Either Crackdown 3 scored just poorly enough by comparison not to generate purchase interest, or Microsoft had gotten the word out about Games Pass enough by then that everyone knows just to subscribe for their wares.

 

I think it’s the latter.  Every piece of marketing for the game near release was a Games Pass ad.  They were actively discouraging people from buying it directly. 

 

2 hours ago, TomCat said:

thought?  I'm pretty sure he stated it as FACT. not sure how the Gamepass marketing has caught up with them?  They were the most profitible ever in the gaming division according to Brad Sams.  Are you going to pay 15$ a month for Ubi Games?

 

It’s obviously not a fact anymore then. More of a theory based on initial results from an early Games Pass push.

 

Ultimately, I think as Games Pass becomes more and more normalized, the less word of mouth will lead to purchases.  It’ll lead to more subscriptions.

 

As for Ubisoft, I’m not their target audience.  I don’t play their games very often, or buy their DLC.  I’m also not interested enough in cloud gaming to play Assassin’s Creed from my phone.

 

But for Ubi diehards?  Yeah, I think they’ll find an audience.  For everyone else it might take some discounts.

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2 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

So its based on a tweet that refers to MS insiders that call the next Xbox Anaconda?

not quite understanding your point.  are you saying the article is based on a tweet?    Anaconda is the code name for the top end xbox.  Lockhart is the code name for the cheaper sku but MS didnt mention it at all at e3  only the Anaconda.  both devices fall under the Scarlett umbrella

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1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Ubi doesn't have a streaming service.  They have announced a service like Origin Premiere or GamesPass.

 

Themselves, no.  But anyone subscribing to Uplay Plus also gets free 1080p streaming of that catalog via Stadia.

 

Should be good enough for some people on mobile devices and laptops.

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On 6/17/2019 at 11:34 PM, JPDunks4 said:

What other services are comparable to Gamepass other than EA Access right now?  

 

Genuinely curious as I don't really recall any others.

 

Live now?  Humble Monthly.  Though the focus is a bit more indie, and you permanently keep the 6 or so games that are added each month.  Plus temp downloads for their subscribers library. (‘Humble Trove’)

 

In the future... Ubisoft is next, then whoever else hops on the bandwagon.

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7 hours ago, TomCat said:

not quite understanding your point.  are you saying the article is based on a tweet?    Anaconda is the code name for the top end xbox.  Lockhart is the code name for the cheaper sku but MS didnt mention it at all at e3  only the Anaconda.  both devices fall under the Scarlett umbrella

Yes.  According to that article it is partially based on news from this guy.

 

It also compiles some of the detail from "throwaway account" reddit posts and other tweets.

The author of the article you linked to is combining other random "leaks" together, and doesn't appear to have done anything to independently confirm the "rumour" he is quoting from real sources (like Eurogamer or wccftech would do).  (Or... Colin Moriarty and Andrew Reiner would do -- who actually are just repeating what multiple developers are saying to them.)

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12 hours ago, SoberChef said:

STFU THAT CANNOT BE A REAL THING!!

 

*EDIT*
...and a quick search later and OMFG NO WAY! :jordan:

 

These numbers don't necessarily mean much at face value.

 

When you are selling very low quantities, percentages don't mean a whole lot.  19% increase over very small numbers is still, a very small number. 

 

With my business, I generally hate when we are sold on "Market Tests" using these methods.  Oh yeah, sales are up 50% after this marketing campaign.  Well yeah, last year we did nothing and were only selling $100 a week of that, so now are are selling $150 a week, big deal.  

 

If you see year after year of decreases in a segment, you are eventually going to get to a point where you hit damn near bottom and may see a rebound.

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13 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

No.  But I don't pay for GamePass or Origin Premiere either.  I find I save money by just buying the games I want to pay most, when they are on sale.

 

Normally I 100% agree with this, BUT, with the “gold conversion trick” I’m good to go with Game Pass Ultimate through May of 2022 and I only put out about $105 to do this. If there are at least three-four games I would have either bought at/near launch or would have gotten on sale in the $30-40 range during this time frame I’ve already more than made out. I already knew that I would likely have gotten Gears 5 either at launch or when it hit around $40-45, Ori 2 in the $25-30 range, and MCC PC on day one, not to mention the next Forza on day one and Halo Infinite next year. It didn’t make sense to not do game pass for 3-ish years. :santasun:

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6 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Yes.  According to that article it is partially based on news from this guy.

 

It also compiles some of the detail from "throwaway account" reddit posts and other tweets.

The author of the article you linked to is combining other random "leaks" together, and doesn't appear to have done anything to independently confirm the "rumour" he is quoting from real sources (like Eurogamer or wccftech would do).  (Or... Colin Moriarty and Andrew Reiner would do -- who actually are just repeating what multiple developers are saying to them.)

I'm still trying to figure out your problem with the link i posted. Are you saying it's unreliable because he got his information from elsewhere? No you cant be saying that cause you posted the supposed articles where he got his info from.  So are you saying that all this info is false?

 

Now to the Raytracing   My understanding of Future Raytracing is this.   If you are using Shaders to do your Raytracing then it is not Considered Hardware Raytracing by people in the industry. Shader Raytracing is considered Software Raytracing.    Now the rumours I've seen is that the ps5 will use navi light for its gpu and it will use Software Shader Raytracing. Sony has mentioned Raytracing but talked about audio Raytracing more then they have lighting raytracing.   

 

Now this is my Assumption from the information that is currently avl.   High executives with MS have emphatically stated that the new xbox will have Hardware Raytracing.  Hardware Raytracing is not avl with navi light  but will be Avl with navi 20.  So I believe that the new xbox will have the Navi 20 gpu along with the hardware Raytracing.

 

MS Execs have also stated that they are pretty confident that they will have the most powerful system and that it is thier goal.  They simply cant come out and make that statement because they dont know whats in Sonys machine but they feel VERY confident that they will outperform them.   Sony has made no such claims that they want to be the most powerful system or that they will have Hardware Raytracing

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1 hour ago, Spork3245 said:

 

Normally I 100% agree with this, BUT, with the “gold conversion trick” I’m good to go with Game Pass Ultimate through May of 2022 and I only put out about $105 to do this. If there are at least three-four games I would have either bought at/near launch or would have gotten on sale in the $30-40 range during this time frame I’ve already more than made out. I already knew that I would likely have gotten Gears 5 either at launch or when it hit around $40-45, Ori 2 in the $25-30 range, and MCC PC on day one, not to mention the next Forza on day one and Halo Infinite next year. It didn’t make sense to not do game pass for 3-ish years. :santasun:

ha ha I'm about to do the same thing. I think Walmart has live codes for 45$  so Imma grab two this weekend then convert to gamepass ultimate

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17 minutes ago, TomCat said:

@AbsolutSurgen   Here is an article about how MS is making Money with thier game division.    Xbox made the top 100 list and Sony and Nintendo didnt make it at all

 

https://gamerant.com/xbox-brand-more-valuable-sony-nintendo/

 

XBOX 87 in the world making money.   MS as a whole is 4  but Xbox making the list at 87 is BIG!!!!!!!!

That's not quite what the article says...

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8 minutes ago, JPDunks4 said:

That's not quite what the article says...

True but Most Valuable means money in my book.  xbox is considered the 87th most Valuable in the world

 

I knew you would check out the business article LOL

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43 minutes ago, TomCat said:

I'm still trying to figure out your problem with the link i posted. Are you saying it's unreliable because he got his information from elsewhere? No you cant be saying that cause you posted the supposed articles where he got his info from.  So are you saying that all this info is false?

 

I am saying the PS specs are unreliable because they come from an anonymous reddit post from a "throwaway account".  I have no idea if the information is correct.  I am not an insider.

I am also saying that Colin Moriarty and Andrew Reiner are credible sources -- because they have significant contacts with devs.  I have never heard of Daniel R Deakin.

 

17 minutes ago, TomCat said:

@AbsolutSurgen   Here is an article about how MS is making Money with thier game division.    Xbox made the top 100 list and Sony and Nintendo didnt make it at all

 

https://gamerant.com/xbox-brand-more-valuable-sony-nintendo/

 

XBOX 87 in the world making money.   MS as a whole is 4  but Xbox making the list at 87 is BIG!!!!!!!!

Do you even read the articles you link to?

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1 minute ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I am saying the PS specs are unreliable because they come from an anonymous reddit post from a "throwaway account".  I have no idea if the information is correct.  I am not an insider.

I am also saying that Colin Moriarty and Andrew Reiner are credible sources -- because they have significant contacts with devs.  I have never heard of Daniel R Deakin.

 

Do you even read the articles you link to?

LOL why would I post something I havent read.  Colin is a known Ponie  so I dont believe his PS propaganda

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7 minutes ago, TomCat said:

LOL why would I post something I havent read.  Colin is a known Ponie  so I dont believe his PS propaganda

Because your comment did not reflect the contents of the article.

 

I don't know what a "Ponie" is.  He also calls it like he sees it.  He has been very critical of Sony in the past.

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13 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Because your comment did not reflect the contents of the article.

 

I don't know what a "Ponie" is.  He also calls it like he sees it.  He has been very critical of Sony in the past.

yea I corrected that after jp's post.  I look at things diffrently then everybody else. it's a residual of my Strokes

 

if you actually interested here is the list  https://www.ft.com/content/3a3419f4-78b1-11e9-be7d-6d846537acab   Interesting list for the xbox brand to even make

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As far as Game Pass helping sales.  I honestly don't see how it wouldn't hurt game sales.  Maybe early on it didn't make a difference, but with $1.00 sales and everything else, you'd be foolish not to just get Game Pass and use it.  Especially if Microsoft is committed to releasing all their 1st party stuff on there, and keeping it there permanently.

 

Now if they decided to launch Day 1 on Game Pass, but pull it after a few months, that might change things up a bit for some games.   Like I generally bought every big name game that was releasing, and never played most of them.  I finally just decided I'll get Game Pass and stop wasting money on new releases I wont get around to.  Outer Worlds, Gears 5, both losing a sale from me this year that otherwise would've bought the highest priced edition of the game probably.  

 

Now because I'm an idiot and still like to support developers, if I play Outer Worlds and love it, I'll definitely still buy it, but I know I'm probably in a pretty big minority.

 

Game Pass will work best for Sea of Thieves type games that continue to evolve with updates or can leverage Micro Transactions.  

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@TomCat That article is not saying XBOX is 87th in making money they are 87th in brand recognition. It is really a distraction and has no weight in the conversation of which console has what specs.

 

Collin you are calling a Sony Ponie and that he is biased and would slant his views to favor Sony. I agree he covers Sony in his game discussions. I think Collin is credible. I also know that until the final specs are public we will not know which is more powerful.

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1 minute ago, JPDunks4 said:

As far as Game Pass helping sales.  I honestly don't see how it wouldn't hurt game sales.  Maybe early on it didn't make a difference, but with $1.00 sales and everything else, you'd be foolish not to just get Game Pass and use it.  Especially if Microsoft is committed to releasing all their 1st party stuff on there, and keeping it there permanently.

 

Now if they decided to launch Day 1 on Game Pass, but pull it after a few months, that might change things up a bit for some games.   Like I generally bought every big name game that was releasing, and never played most of them.  I finally just decided I'll get Game Pass and stop wasting money on new releases I wont get around to.  Outer Worlds, Gears 5, both losing a sale from me this year that otherwise would've bought the highest priced edition of the game probably.  

 

Now because I'm an idiot and still like to support developers, if I play Outer Worlds and love it, I'll definitely still buy it, but I know I'm probably in a pretty big minority.

 

Game Pass will work best for Sea of Thieves type games that continue to evolve with updates or can leverage Micro Transactions.  

Thats exactly what Phil said people are doing. they are tying the games out on game pass and purchase them if they actually like them

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5 minutes ago, Rodimus said:

@TomCat That article is not saying XBOX is 87th in making money they are 87th in brand recognition. It is really a distraction and has no weight in the conversation of which console has what specs.

 

Collin you are calling a Sony Ponie and that he is biased and would slant his views to favor Sony. I agree he covers Sony in his game discussions. I think Collin is credible. I also know that until the final specs are public we will not know which is more powerful.

not trying to distract about the console specs. I was just passing information that he asked about last week I just interpreted the article wrong. Wont be the first or last time I do that LOL but brad Sams has posted how MS is making money out the wassuu with the xbox brand even though theyve sold less then half of Sony

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37 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Because your comment did not reflect the contents of the article.

 

I don't know what a "Ponie" is.  He also calls it like he sees it.  He has been very critical of Sony in the past.

so going by AMD's road map and the Statements from MS and sony Executives do you see how Xbox will probably be navi 20 with hardware Raytracing  and Ps5 with Navi light and Software Raytracing? Or do you think I'm totally off Base

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3 minutes ago, TomCat said:

not trying to distract about the console specs. I was just passing information that he asked about last week I just interpreted the article wrong. Wont be the first or last time I do that LOL but brad Sams has posted how MS is making money out the wassuu with the xbox brand even though theyve sold less then half of Sony

Glad they are not losing money. It must Minecraft. They have to be making a killing with Minecraft alone.

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17 minutes ago, TomCat said:

Thats exactly what Phil said people are doing. they are tying the games out on game pass and purchase them if they actually like them

 

But if Gears 5 is going to be on Gamepass forever, I don't need to buy it.  If its a 3rd party game that is on there that I missed and may only be on there for a month or two, then yes, that can help spur sales of those games.

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46 minutes ago, JPDunks4 said:

 

But if Gears 5 is going to be on Gamepass forever, I don't need to buy it.  If its a 3rd party game that is on there that I missed and may only be on there for a month or two, then yes, that can help spur sales of those games.

 

People buy the DLC for the first party games that they may not have bought otherwise :sun: 

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2 hours ago, TomCat said:

so going by AMD's road map and the Statements from MS and sony Executives do you see how Xbox will probably be navi 20 with hardware Raytracing  and Ps5 with Navi light and Software Raytracing? Or do you think I'm totally off Base

No.  I suspect both will use the exact same architecture in their SOCs -- with both of them launching at the same time, I cannot see AMD not sharing the engineering between the two.  Sure, one may have a larger die, or more cores, or different clock speeds -- but I would be shocked if the underlying architecture is different.

 

I am not sure it is even appropriate to refer to NAVI10 and Navi20 when it comes to these SOCs.  Those may refer to very specific GPU chips within AMD.

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