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Math and reading skills are in an unprecedented decline in teens globally


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WWW.REUTERS.COM

Teenagers' mathematics and reading skills are in an unprecedented decline across dozens of countries and COVID school closures are only partly to be blamed, the OECD said on Tuesday in its latest survey of global learning standards.

 

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There are many factors, the largest of which seem to be:

- Phones

- Big drop in parent involvement in their children's learning

- Pandemic

 

The decline started before the pandemic, however, so the last one really just exacerbated an existing crisis.

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Man, I fuckin' hated math. I passed every math class with a C or D, mostly Ds. And it's not exactly that I couldn't do math, but that I just hate it. It is like the most boring puzzle ever invented. I caught on to a trend where, on tests and homework, there was about a 50/50 split on questions that were easier to solve vs ones that were harder to solve. Most math assignments were like this and I'm not sure why, but it was my saving grace as I pretty much only did those easier questions. Math just never had anything fun to do it in. I'd rather sit there lost in my own thoughts than do math. Like, I failed one of my math classes because I just didn't want to do it and so I didn't. Which sucked cuz then I had to take two math classes in 1 year so I could get the 4 required math credits to pass. And even then I had to ask my 2 math teachers to bonus work so I could get a passing grade which I was lucky, and thankful, to get. One of the teachers just passed me, because we found out that one of my classmates was stealing my homework, erasing my name, and putting his on it. We dropped our homework off at the beginning of class and the guy would take it from the pile. The teacher said one day, "so not turning in your homework again, Gary?" But I had and that is when we found out. I even looked at past assignments he had and found out it had been happening for a while. So, because he had no idea how long this had been happening, I'm pretty sure he just passed me cuz it was some bullshit.

 

I'm not surprised that with more distractions comes more students ignoring math.

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Learning has to compete with video games, social media, and streaming services, all of which have optimized ways to grab your attention through behavioral (sometimes predatory) manipulation, on top of just simply expanding access to users. Through these services kids have been exposed to an increasing amount of misinformation, disinformation, fear-mongering, and vapid, empty "content".  My nephew (11) will just spout complete untruths as actual "facts", and when you question him where he got that information he will say it was from a Youtuber. The TV "rotting" our brain was a scare tactic when I was a kid, but now the "TV" is unchained. It's understood that watching a show on TV is a work of fiction, because the people are actors and are just pretending. But that veil between fiction and reality gets thinner when kids watch social media, which is made up of other "real" people who are easier to connect with and believe. 

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37 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

I had to retake Algebra 1 in high school but the teacher was a terrible pedo who put pictures of his naked kids on his walls. 🤷‍♀️

That is also what I failed/gave up on. The teacher who was teaching was only teaching for a month or 2, and then we got a new teacher who NO ONE respected. I feel bad for her now, but I didn't care for her as a teacher and she is when I checked out. Either she quit from the lack of respect or was fired but we then got a third teacher who seemed to be able to teach her students but I just slept in that class at that point.

 

Apparently, quite a number of students failed under that setup because the following years the teachers, not the students, were calling us victims of the three-headed beast.

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3 minutes ago, Mr.Vic20 said:

It really doesn't help that as a parent you need to basically take a course yourself to understand how they are teaching kids math year to year, as the methods keep changing. 

 

Not to dispute that this point may have an impact in some places, but the study did take place globally, and in many/most countries common core hasn't been implemented as in the US/Canada. It seems that generally, parents are monitoring their children's progress in school less closely than in the past.

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5 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

Not to dispute that this point may have an impact in some places, but the study did take place globally, and in many/most countries common core hasn't been implemented as in the US/Canada. It seems that generally, parents are monitoring their children's progress in school less closely than in the past.

No doubt! I was just taking this opportunity to complain! :p

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1 hour ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

Not to dispute that this point may have an impact in some places, but the study did take place globally, and in many/most countries common core hasn't been implemented as in the US/Canada. It seems that generally, parents are monitoring their children's progress in school less closely than in the past.

Doesn’t help that both parents have to work at least one job just to be able to provide basic necessities. 

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Phones and the pandemic are just explanations that exacerbates this problem. It sounds more like Gen Xer parents of Gen Zer's are simply not doing their job as parents as watchful parenting of your kids' academia would immediately resolve this problem. Parenting isn't easy, especially in this day and age, but that's the job.

 

I remember seeing a stand-up bit by Lliza Schelesinger I think and she was going off about how dumb Zoomers were because they didn't know how to operate fax machines or write checks, etc. Analog-type tasks everyone should know how to do as an adult. And I was like: "shouldn't you Gen Xer parents have been teaching them this stuff?" They've been kids most of their lives.

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8 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

Phones and the pandemic are just explanations that exacerbates this problem. It sounds more like Gen Xer parents of Gen Zer's are simply not doing their job as parents as watchful parenting of your kids' academia would immediately resolve this problem. Parenting isn't easy, especially in this day and age, but that's the job.

 

I remember seeing a stand-up bit by Lliza Schelesinger I think and she was going off about how dumb Zoomers were because they didn't know how to operate fax machines or write checks, etc. Analog-type tasks everyone should know how to do as an adult. And I was like: "shouldn't you Gen Xer parents have been teaching them this stuff?" They've been kids most of their lives.

 

Those are a couple tasks that I feel like not everyone needs to know.  I write like 3 checks a year max and the only people I've seen use a fax machine in the last decade or so is the medical industry.  Like we sent and received faxes of medical records at my time at anthem, but even then we used a cloud fax service on our end.

 

As far as the topic goes, teaching math is hard.  In school it's just drills of concepts that they don't connect to the reality everyone lives in.  I assume the degredation of reading comes from the fact everything now is absorbed in short bites.

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19 minutes ago, finaljedi said:

Those are a couple tasks that I feel like not everyone needs to know.  I write like 3 checks a year max and the only people I've seen use a fax machine in the last decade or so is the medical industry.  Like we sent and received faxes of medical records at my time at anthem, but even then we used a cloud fax service on our end.

 

Those are just some examples - it's come up before that Gen Z has struggled in the work place for not being acquainted with older office tech, orders of business, etc. at smaller and mid-size businesses. It's called "tech shame". This is stuff their parents should have taught them.

 

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

They may be digital natives, but young workers were raised on user-friendly apps – and office devices are far less intuitive

 

WWW.NDTV.COM

Tech shame can affect anyone, but Gen Z workers are often targeted because they are expected to be tech-savvy. However, even Gen Z workers can struggle with older technology.

 

WWW.TECHTARGET.COM

Learn more about tech shame and how younger generations are facing embarrassment from older colleagues using office technology.

 

And an interesting additional morsel. This is also why gambling addiction is such a problem with Gen Z as well.

 

WWW.VOX.COM

The generation that grew up with the internet isn’t invulnerable to becoming the victim of online hackers and scammers.

 

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When I was a kid, my parents could afford to pay a mortgage, own 2 cars, feed and clothe 5 kids all while my mom stayed at home to raise us.  She was able to be involved in our school lives. She always volunteered for school field trips and bake sales. She was an active participant in it due to not having to work to afford basic necessities. 

 

Lololol at parents teaching kids to write checks. I learned that shit in school when they taught balancing check books and reconciling bank accounts.  They had a library class to teach you the Dewey decimal system, using scanners, citing resources, etc.  A computer class to teach you typing (home row), Microsoft office, and even basic coding.
 

If schools are omitting this from the curriculum, then it should be addressed.  Unfortunately, parents have to spend their limited free time fighting fucking pedos that want kids to strip naked before sporting events, the religious nuts that want dinosaurs erased, and whatever else the insane decides to push next all while trying to raise a normal kid and provide for them. 

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I saw some piece on TV, I wish I could recall where (daily show maybe?), where they were talking to people at a school where they had a zero phone policy and I was kinda surprised that it's not the default. The policy was just no phones in use at school at all. Obviously not during class, but also not during lunch or breaks or anything. Basically the same policy that I had in late high school when the Star Tac was still a cool phone.

 

The one thing that stuck out to me was the unexpected push back from parents. I did have a phone by the end of high school, but I don't think it would ever have occurred to either me or my folks to text during the school day. I suppose these parents have had constant digital communication with their kids for their kids' entire lives, but these parents didn't grow up that way. Is it really so beyond the pale that they don't hear from their children during the school day?

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5 hours ago, Mr.Vic20 said:

It really doesn't help that as a parent you need to basically take a course yourself to understand how they are teaching kids math year to year, as the methods keep changing. 

 

my friend teaches 5th grade math and he was showing me how they do things now and I wanted to scream. The kids have to draw a cube to represent each 1000, a square for every 100 and the use vertical lines for single and double digit numbers but they do them as just a string of vertical dashes not as tally marks where you do 4 and then cross through it with the 5th dash so you can have neat groups of 5, it was just a string of vertical lines so it looks like this 1111111111111111111111111111111111.

 

HOW THE FUCK IS THIS AN EFFICENT SYSTEM?!?!?!?!?!

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47 minutes ago, Brian said:

When I was a kid, my parents could afford to pay a mortgage, own 2 cars, feed and clothe 5 kids all while my mom stayed at home to raise us.  She was able to be involved in our school lives. She always volunteered for school field trips and bake sales. She was an active participant in it due to not having to work to afford basic necessities. 

 

Lololol at parents teaching kids to write checks. I learned that shit in school when they taught balancing check books and reconciling bank accounts.  They had a library class to teach you the Dewey decimal system, using scanners, citing resources, etc.  A computer class to teach you typing (home row), Microsoft office, and even basic coding.
 

If schools are omitting this from the curriculum, then it should be addressed.  Unfortunately, parents have to spend their limited free time fighting fucking pedos that want kids to strip naked before sporting events, the religious nuts that want dinosaurs erased, and whatever else the insane decides to push next all while trying to raise a normal kid and provide for them. 

 

I agree school curriculum is a huge part of the problem, but if you can't parent to compensate for that (schools aren't suddenly going to become great again) when you know going in having kids that this will be a problem, then maybe don't have kids if you aren't up to the task of making sure your kids learn basic reading skills and math skills. We aren't asking them to be Oppenheimer here. Parents should be teaching you how to live an adult life. Schools should to, but the parents have a bigger and more personal responsibility here. I would be embarrassed if my child entered the work place not knowing how to do basic office tasks regardless of whether high school or college taught them. Embarrassed at myself for doing a poor parenting job, not embarrassed at my child. 

 

 

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Just now, elbobo said:

 

my friend teaches 5th grade math and he was showing me how they do things now and I wanted to scream. The kids have to draw a cube to represent each 1000, a square for every 100 and the use vertical lines for single and double digit numbers but they do them as just a string of vertical dashes not as tally marks where you do 4 and then cross through it with the 5th dash so you can have neat groups of 5, it was just a string of vertical lines so it looks like this 1111111111111111111111111111111111.

 

HOW THE FUCK IS THIS AN EFFICENT SYSTEM?!?!?!?!?!

 

 

I was recently introduced to this same system and it is bat shit stupid. Just teach the basic rules in a straightforward manner, visualizing the concepts and having four different ways to approach the problem overcomplicates what is essentially very simple and basic math.

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21 minutes ago, TwinIon said:

I saw some piece on TV, I wish I could recall where (daily show maybe?), where they were talking to people at a school where they had a zero phone policy and I was kinda surprised that it's not the default. The policy was just no phones in use at school at all. Obviously not during class, but also not during lunch or breaks or anything. Basically the same policy that I had in late high school when the Star Tac was still a cool phone.

 

The one thing that stuck out to me was the unexpected push back from parents. I did have a phone by the end of high school, but I don't think it would ever have occurred to either me or my folks to text during the school day. I suppose these parents have had constant digital communication with their kids for their kids' entire lives, but these parents didn't grow up that way. Is it really so beyond the pale that they don't hear from their children during the school day?

 

I don’t blame parents for wanting to be tethered to their kids when school shootings are such a concern or when they can get CPS called on them for their kids being “unsupervised.“ But I’m not a parent, so… what do I know?

 

4 minutes ago, elbobo said:

 

my friend teaches 5th grade math and he was showing me how they do things now and I wanted to scream. The kids have to draw a cube to represent each 1000, a square for every 100 and the use vertical lines for single and double digit numbers but they do them as just a string of vertical dashes not as tally marks where you do 4 and then cross through it with the 5th dash so you can have neat groups of 5, it was just a string of vertical lines so it looks like this 1111111111111111111111111111111111.

 

HOW THE FUCK IS THIS AN EFFICENT SYSTEM?!?!?!?!?!

 

Unless I’m completely misremembering things, teaching kids math this way does set them up to be better able to do and understand other calculations as opposed to the reliance on rote memorization or “tricks” for multiplication and division. And again, not a parent, but I regularly see adults my age (mid 40’s) and older bitch about math being taught in new ways who have to pull out their phone for literally any arithmetic that they don’t have memorized, so it’s not like the old methods were great or stuck. 

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4 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

Unless I’m completely misremembering things, teaching kids math this way does set them up to be better able to do and understand other calculations as opposed to the reliance on rote memorization or “tricks” for multiplication and division. And again, not a parent, but I regularly see adults my age (mid 40’s) and older bitch about math being taught in new ways who have to pull out their phone for literally any arithmetic that they don’t have memorized, so it’s not like the old methods were great or stuck. 

 

I agree that's what they say despite how overcomplicated it appears to someone who knows some math who learned the old way. New, optimized ways are good, but you don't need so many approaches to the problem (they offer a couple I guess depending on how you learn?).

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1 hour ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Those are just some examples - it's come up before that Gen Z has struggled in the work place for not being acquainted with older office tech, orders of business, etc. at smaller and mid-size businesses. It's called "tech shame". This is stuff their parents should have taught them.

 

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

They may be digital natives, but young workers were raised on user-friendly apps – and office devices are far less intuitive

 

WWW.NDTV.COM

Tech shame can affect anyone, but Gen Z workers are often targeted because they are expected to be tech-savvy. However, even Gen Z workers can struggle with older technology.

 

WWW.TECHTARGET.COM

Learn more about tech shame and how younger generations are facing embarrassment from older colleagues using office technology.

 

And an interesting additional morsel. This is also why gambling addiction is such a problem with Gen Z as well.

 

WWW.VOX.COM

The generation that grew up with the internet isn’t invulnerable to becoming the victim of online hackers and scammers.

 

 

Fuck printers, if a third of the population can't figure out how they work then maybe Cannon and Xerox will update the UI that they paid a retiree $50 to create in 1997.  Those things cost like $25,000 a piece, their primary job is to melt black powder on paper and they can and will fail at that spectacularly and often.  I was a clerk 2011-2012 and I don't blame anyone for not knowing how to make their way through the nested shitpile of menus to do basic things that make up the office document center.  It was a joke 24 years ago in Office Space "PC load letter, what the fuck does that mean?" and those overpriced piles of garbage haven't gotten better.

 

Them falling for scams more is a bummer though, is there like a curve for that where boomers get scammed online, Gen X and millenials do better, then zoomers loop back around to being susceptible?

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58 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I agree that's what they say despite how overcomplicated it appears to someone who knows some math who learned the old way. New, optimized ways are good, but you don't need so many approaches to the problem.

 

I mean sure, but as someone who “learned” by having flash cards drilled into my head until they were indelible (when I think of basic addition in my head, I STILL see them in “colors” that correspond to the different colored index cards my parents used, 3+4 = 7 will always be “blue” to me), I just don’t think I’m in a position to know which approach is best. Again, unless I’m remembering things incorrectly, a lot of these methods are based on what’s used in other countries that typically have better mathematic achievement than the US.

 

54 minutes ago, finaljedi said:

 

Fuck printers, if a third of the population can't figure out how they work then maybe Cannon and Xerox will update the UI that they paid a retiree $50 to create in 1997.  Those things cost like $25,000 a piece, their primary job is to melt black powder on paper and they can and will fail at that spectacularly and often.  I was a clerk 2011-2012 and I don't blame anyone for not knowing how to make their way through the nested shitpile of menus to do basic things that make up the office document center.  It was a joke 24 years ago in Office Space "PC load letter, what the fuck does that mean?" and those overpriced piles of garbage haven't gotten better.

 

Them falling for scams more is a bummer though, is there like a curve for that where boomers get scammed online, Gen X and millenials do better, then zoomers loop back around to being susceptible?

 

A lot of this is failure of on the job training and enforcement of norms. If I hadn’t worked in a regulated environment my whole adult life I wouldn’t be inclined to write dates in the DD MMM YYYY format, which is the only way to be clear, I wouldn’t be inclined to use strict folder structures to be able to find documents if sponsors or the FDA come knocking, etc. And all of that are things that need to be beat into people’s heads and even in those contexts, people just… don’t care unless they’re constantly monitored. Every desktop is a digital hate crime, every browser is a mass grave of tabs, people with access to PHI regularly leave their workstations unlocked when they go to get coffee or piss, etc. I just don’t buy that Gen Z is somehow “worse at working” than other generations when it comes to technology, they’re just more likely to see shit for the first time in a university or professional setting then people my age. And my guess is way more than half the boomers or millennials can’t work the fucking scanner or printer either, they just try to get someone else to do it for them.

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1 hour ago, TwinIon said:

I saw some piece on TV, I wish I could recall where (daily show maybe?), where they were talking to people at a school where they had a zero phone policy and I was kinda surprised that it's not the default. The policy was just no phones in use at school at all. Obviously not during class, but also not during lunch or breaks or anything. Basically the same policy that I had in late high school when the Star Tac was still a cool phone.

 

The one thing that stuck out to me was the unexpected push back from parents. I did have a phone by the end of high school, but I don't think it would ever have occurred to either me or my folks to text during the school day. I suppose these parents have had constant digital communication with their kids for their kids' entire lives, but these parents didn't grow up that way. Is it really so beyond the pale that they don't hear from their children during the school day?

 

Good luck getting parents to back off on this without addressing school shootings. 

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30 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

I mean sure, but as someone who “learned” by having flash cards drilled into my head until they were indelible (when I think of basic addition in my head, I STILL see them in “colors” that correspond to the different colored index cards my parents used, 3+4 = 7 will always be “blue” to me), I just don’t think I’m in a position to know which approach is best. Again, unless I’m remembering things incorrectly, a lot of these methods are based on what’s used in other countries that typically have better mathematic achievement than the US.

 

 

A lot of this is failure of on the job training and enforcement of norms. If I hadn’t worked in a regulated environment my whole adult life I wouldn’t be inclined to write dates in the DD MMM YYYY format, which is the only way to be clear, I wouldn’t be inclined to use strict folder structures to be able to support find documents if sponsors or the FDA come knocking, etc. And all of that are things that need to be beat into people’s heads and even in those contexts, people just… don’t care unless they’re constantly monitored. Every desktop is a digital hate crime, every browser is a mass grave of tabs, people with access to PHI regularly leave their workstations unlocked when they go to get coffee or piss, etc. I just don’t buy that Gen Z is somehow “worse at working” than other generations when it comes to technology, they’re just more likely to see shit for the first time in a university or professional setting then people my age. And my guess is way more than half the boomers or millennials can’t work the fucking scanner or printer either, they just try to get someone else to do it for them.

 

I kind of wonder if it's the destruction of the entry level job.  I started my white collar career as a clerk, I had to be the person to manage the amalgamation of trash and hellfire that was the Xerox Workcentre along with the shitty "Only works in IE6" data warehouse for my department.  Thanks to automation clerical work and data entry aren't really as prevalent as they once were so there's no real onramp to develop the soft skills of the modern workplace.

 

It also could just be journalists looking for a story, I've run into plenty of people in the middle or latter part of their careers who learned how to set up a meeting in Outlook from me for the first time.

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1 minute ago, finaljedi said:

It also could just be journalists looking for a story, I've run into plenty of people in the middle or latter part of their careers who learned how to set up a meeting in Outlook from me for the first time.

 

The number of people I deal with who insist on being contacted via app/method X because they’re “not good” with app/method Y is roughly infinity. To say nothing of people who ask me to remember that blocked time on their calendars is a suggestion but tentative time is when they’re overbooked, as if they always respond to invites immediately, etc.

 

I don’t doubt that there are legitimate generational differences in work style, attitudes, approaches, etc. But shit like onboarding and dedicated internal trainers are almost always on the chopping block when the layoff headsman starts coming for internal people after contractors are let go.

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yeah reading is terrible. at 7th-8th grade, a lot of the kids CAN read, but they have awful comprehension. they’re just reading the words. they also have TERRIBLE reading and writing stamina. if they can’t solve/answer something quickly, they ask me where they can find it. and they’re not searching through pages and pages of info. they’re looking at….. like 4 paragraphs. 

 

i can’t let students use their chromebooks because a lot of kids will just google the answer and use the first result they get whether or not it is actually correct. even if it means they get a zero for plagiarism. they’ll still do it because all they care about it doing it so they can say they did it and do something else. 

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5 hours ago, TwinIon said:

I saw some piece on TV, I wish I could recall where (daily show maybe?), where they were talking to people at a school where they had a zero phone policy and I was kinda surprised that it's not the default. The policy was just no phones in use at school at all. Obviously not during class, but also not during lunch or breaks or anything. Basically the same policy that I had in late high school when the Star Tac was still a cool phone.

 

The one thing that stuck out to me was the unexpected push back from parents. I did have a phone by the end of high school, but I don't think it would ever have occurred to either me or my folks to text during the school day. I suppose these parents have had constant digital communication with their kids for their kids' entire lives, but these parents didn't grow up that way. Is it really so beyond the pale that they don't hear from their children during the school day?

it’s insane how many kids are texting their parents throughout the day. it’ll be 3rd period and a kid asks me if they can text their parent about something that’s not that important. i say no and they’re like “my mom is expecting a reply?!?!” 

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Listen...as the head of the IT service desk for a school division that is considering going 1:1 laptops with kids...we should ban all technology in schools. When you walk into school, you deposit your cell phone. The only computers should be in labs, and those classes should be dedicated to how to use the laptop/computer. Kids don't need a laptop for every class, and they certainly shouldn't have any distracting phones on them in the classroom. Yes, my job would likely disappear, but it's for the good of society.

 

Our director made a comment that to help save money to go 1:1, we could cut a few instructional aids since kids wouldn't need as much help in the classroom. I was like...what the fuck, you should remove all computers (which cost like $1.5 million per year in replacement/updating) and hire a bunch more instructional aids. I want more people in the classroom, or smaller classroom sizes.

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