finaljedi Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 1 hour ago, Signifyin(g)Monkey said: The most interesting aspect of the situation to me is that there’s a paradox nested in the automation AI provides that was not present in prior technologies that caused large waves of disemployment via the automation of labor. Namely, that AIs require the labor they are built to automate. To take a simple example, an image generator AI can automate the creation of images, but it also can’t work without lots of people providing it lots of source images. An image generator, in a sense, can’t completely automate image generation without killing itself. Cars, by contrast, did not need horse-buggy drivers to work. So the dynamics of the coming labor disputes and legal battles over AI are going to be unlike anything we’ve really ever seen. We live in interesting times. There will always be a need for human driven art, no matter what AI evangelists say. I think the real one is AI coming for a lot of entry level up to sort of middle level white collar work, support, basic analyst jobs, a lot of it will be able to be done with AI. I feel like the entry level in a lot of fields is going to be tough, that includes art, no one is going to use it to make a feature film that anyone will want to see, but they will use them for commercials, brochures, presentation graphics. The kind of stuff someone gets into to try and get in the door on certain career paths. Like I kind of wonder if gen alpha is going to get fucked by a bunch of AI built by millennials. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbob42 Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 56 minutes ago, finaljedi said: This reminds me of those crypto bros that tried to sell NFTs in games as "Imagine you don't have to find a gun in the game, you could buy it, and then sell it when you're done with it to another player". Those were people who don't play games and I'm pretty sure these people don't read a whole lot of books. This does answer the burning question I've always had: Who the fuck reads those terrible AI generated Kindle books people shit onto Amazon? It's so weird that they skip straight to "what if [worst idea possible]" instead of what if it made it a trillion times faster and easier to generate decent assets for things like games or movies that are absurdly expensive and time consuming and are a large part of the reason the gaming industry is starting to take a billion fucking years to release games? AI has amazing potential uses, and these dipshits can't even fathom them because they don't know what the hell they're talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unogueen Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 26 minutes ago, Xbob42 said: It's so weird that they skip straight to "what if [worst idea possible]" instead of what if it made it a trillion times faster and easier to generate decent assets for things like games or movies that are absurdly expensive and time consuming and are a large part of the reason the gaming industry is starting to take a billion fucking years to release games? AI has amazing potential uses, and these dipshits can't even fathom them because they don't know what the hell they're talking about. Product does not come from some magic asshole. Time, effort, and resources are required. All in a physical basis. Is this really worth it for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbob42 Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 8 minutes ago, unogueen said: Product does not come from some magic asshole. Time, effort, and resources are required. All in a physical basis. Is this really worth it for you? Are you doing a Jordan Peterson impression? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unogueen Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 You're talking about video games in an AI thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbob42 Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 Yeah, because it impacts video games and it's an easy example on a video game forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 1 hour ago, Xbob42 said: It's so weird that they skip straight to "what if [worst idea possible]" instead of what if it made it a trillion times faster and easier to generate decent assets for things like games or movies that are absurdly expensive and time consuming and are a large part of the reason the gaming industry is starting to take a billion fucking years to release games? AI has amazing potential uses, and these dipshits can't even fathom them because they don't know what the hell they're talking about. It's all grandest stupidity. Imagine if the thing you did for fun... made shit you could sell to people! And they hope people don't realize it's just an MLM for dudes. At least with real MLMs, the skincare products or detox dust actually exists, I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chakoo Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 1 hour ago, Xbob42 said: It's so weird that they skip straight to "what if [worst idea possible]" instead of what if it made it a trillion times faster and easier to generate decent assets for things like games or movies that are absurdly expensive and time consuming and are a large part of the reason the gaming industry is starting to take a billion fucking years to release games? AI has amazing potential uses, and these dipshits can't even fathom them because they don't know what the hell they're talking about. They are, you just aren’t noticing it. Unity has an AI solution, adobe did firefly, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbob42 Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 1 minute ago, chakoo said: They are, you just aren’t noticing it. Unity has an AI solution, adobe did firefly, etc. I'm more talking about the Twitter types who are like "WHAT IF AI COULD DRIVE YOU TO WORK USING THE CLOUD WHILE YOU SMOKED CRACK IN THE TRUNK" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chakoo Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 1 minute ago, Xbob42 said: I'm more talking about the Twitter types who are like "WHAT IF AI COULD DRIVE YOU TO WORK USING THE CLOUD WHILE YOU SMOKED CRACK IN THE TRUNK" So then you’re saying the random idiots your following aren’t saying the stuff you think they should say when the people who do, exist on said platform. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbob42 Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 4 minutes ago, chakoo said: So then you’re saying the random idiots your following aren’t saying the stuff you think they should say when the people who do, exist on said platform. No, I don't follow anyone on Twitter. I'm talking about examples in this thread. That's all. Dial it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_MH Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 2 hours ago, finaljedi said: There will always be a need for human driven art, no matter what AI evangelists say. I think the real one is AI coming for a lot of entry level up to sort of middle level white collar work, support, basic analyst jobs, a lot of it will be able to be done with AI. I feel like the entry level in a lot of fields is going to be tough, that includes art, no one is going to use it to make a feature film that anyone will want to see, but they will use them for commercials, brochures, presentation graphics. The kind of stuff someone gets into to try and get in the door on certain career paths. Like I kind of wonder if gen alpha is going to get fucked by a bunch of AI built by millennials. This right here is the biggest thing future generations have to worry about. If entry level jobs are hard enough to come by these days, it'll only get that much worse in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unogueen Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 20 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said: This right here is the biggest thing future generations have to worry about. If entry level jobs are hard enough to come by these days, it'll only get that much worse in the future. If all order kiosks are AI, it would self regulate the outcome. That's what AI is about, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unogueen Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 If Apple uses Apple AI and MS uses MS AI, what would be the difference? In terms of end product like OS. There's Google with Android too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 3 hours ago, unogueen said: If Apple uses Apple AI and MS uses MS AI, what would be the difference? In terms of end product like OS. There's Google with Android too. Two wrong answers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted March 1 Author Share Posted March 1 OLOLOLOLOLOLO Elon Musk sues OpenAI for abandoning its mission to benefit humanity - The Verge WWW.THEVERGE.COM Musk claims GPT-4 is “better at reasoning than average humans.” Quote Elon Musk is suing OpenAI and its CEO, Sam Altman, over claims that the pursuit of profit has led the company to abandon its founding mission to develop artificial intelligence technology that will benefit humanity. In a lawsuit filed with a San Francisco court on Thursday, Musk alleges that OpenAI’s partnership with Microsoft has transformed the organization “into a closed-source de facto subsidiary” of Microsoft that’s focused on maximizing profits. According to the lawsuit, such actions constitute a breach of the founding agreement between Musk — who co-founded OpenAI in 2015 but no longer retains a stake in the company — Altman, and OpenAI president Greg Brockman, who committed to making the project a nonprofit and its technology open source. These violations include keeping the design of OpenAI’s GPT-4 model a “complete secret,” with the suit claiming this decision was “primarily driven by commercial considerations, not safety” and that the GPT-4 model is now “a de facto Microsoft proprietary algorithm.” The lawsuit seeks to force OpenAI to adhere to its founding agreement and “return to its mission to develop AGI for the benefit of humanity,” rather than benefiting Altman, Brockman, and Microsoft — “the largest technology company in the world.” As amusing as this is truly is, I'm genuinely curious as to what possible "standing" Elmo could have in filing this suit as he no long has a stake in OpenAI. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneticBlueprint Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Did he have a stake in it when they shifted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted March 1 Author Share Posted March 1 2 minutes ago, GeneticBlueprint said: Did he have a stake in it when they shifted? He left OpenAI's board in 2018, but I don't know if that correlated with a divestment of his stake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Vic20 Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricofoley Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Just to state the obvious here, if "abandoning your founding mission in pursuit of profit" is grounds for a lawsuit, Tesla should be sued many times over. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted March 1 Author Share Posted March 1 1 hour ago, Ricofoley said: Just to state the obvious here, if "abandoning your founding mission in pursuit of profit" is grounds for a lawsuit, Tesla should be sued many times over. Heck, I should clearly be able to sue Alphabet/Google for clearly abandoning its "Don't Be Evil" mantra! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legend Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 2 hours ago, Ricofoley said: Just to state the obvious here, if "abandoning your founding mission in pursuit of profit" is grounds for a lawsuit, Tesla should be sued many times over. It's more complicated than that. OpenAI was originally a non-profit, and they continue to have a "non-profit" base on which a capped "for-profit" entity sits on top. Tesla is just for profit with none of the legal benefits of a non-profit (or at least I wasn't aware of any!) It's a fucked up world to allow the BS organizational structure that OpenAI gets away with and they ought to be taken to task for it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 23 minutes ago, legend said: It's more complicated than that. OpenAI was originally a non-profit, and they continue to have a "non-profit" base on which a capped "for-profit" entity sits on top. Tesla is just for profit with none of the legal benefits of a non-profit (or at least I wasn't aware of any!) It's a fucked up world to allow the BS organizational structure that OpenAI gets away with and they ought to be taken to task for it. I would suggest that almost all legal frameworks and tax codes for any type of corporate entity are fucked up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legend Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 1 hour ago, CitizenVectron said: I would suggest that almost all legal frameworks and tax codes for any type of corporate entity are fucked up. Yeah, but there are levels 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted March 6 Author Share Posted March 6 OpenAI and Elon Musk OPENAI.COM We are dedicated to the OpenAI mission and have pursued it every step of the way. Quote We and Elon recognized a for-profit entity would be necessary to acquire those resources As we discussed a for-profit structure in order to further the mission, Elon wanted us to merge with Tesla or he wanted full control. Elon left OpenAI, saying there needed to be a relevant competitor to Google/DeepMind and that he was going to do it himself. He said he’d be supportive of us finding our own path. In late 2017, we and Elon decided the next step for the mission was to create a for-profit entity. Elon wanted majority equity, initial board control, and to be CEO. In the middle of these discussions, he withheld funding. Reid Hoffman bridged the gap to cover salaries and operations. We couldn’t agree to terms on a for-profit with Elon because we felt it was against the mission for any individual to have absolute control over OpenAI. He then suggested instead merging OpenAI into Tesla. In early February 2018, Elon forwarded us an email suggesting that OpenAI should “attach to Tesla as its cash cow”, commenting that it was “exactly right… Tesla is the only path that could even hope to hold a candle to Google. Even then, the probability of being a counterweight to Google is small. It just isn’t zero”. [2] Elon soon chose to leave OpenAI, saying that our probability of success was 0, and that he planned to build an AGI competitor within Tesla. When he left in late February 2018, he told our team he was supportive of us finding our own path to raising billions of dollars. In December 2018, Elon sent us an email saying “Even raising several hundred million won’t be enough. This needs billions per year immediately or forget it.” [3] 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chakoo Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 oh look proof to never take Elon's BS at face value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentbob Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 7 minutes ago, chakoo said: oh look proof to never take Elon's BS at face value. so. . . .The Simpsons did it again?!? After Elon says he’ll make things better by making the city all automated, the city goes into a depression Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinIon Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 Lol. So Elon isn't so much against OpenAI going for profit as he against them going for profit without him in control of everything. It also feels like a window into what Elon thought of OpenAI's business prospects. He was looking at what they had and thinking that they needed an existing profitable business as a crutch, but it turns out they didn't. They were able to monetize their product quite quickly. They're still burning through cash, but at this point it's clear they'll be able to get whatever cash they need for the foreseeable future. I'll also point out that Elon has since decided to again open his own AI company separate from Tesla, so whatever reasons he had for insisting that OpenAI be part of Tesla obviously don't apply if you're a company under his control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finaljedi Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 1 hour ago, TwinIon said: Lol. So Elon isn't so much against OpenAI going for profit as he against them going for profit without him in control of everything. It also feels like a window into what Elon thought of OpenAI's business prospects. He was looking at what they had and thinking that they needed an existing profitable business as a crutch, but it turns out they didn't. They were able to monetize their product quite quickly. They're still burning through cash, but at this point it's clear they'll be able to get whatever cash they need for the foreseeable future. I'll also point out that Elon has since decided to again open his own AI company separate from Tesla, so whatever reasons he had for insisting that OpenAI be part of Tesla obviously don't apply if you're a company under his control. Last I saw he was trying to use his AI company to leverage the Tesla board to give him a shitload of stock to fill a Twitter shaped hole he ripped in his pocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinIon Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 hour ago, finaljedi said: Last I saw he was trying to use his AI company to leverage the Tesla board to give him a shitload of stock to fill a Twitter shaped hole he ripped in his pocket. Yeah, if I was a Tesla stock holder, it would piss me off that the CEO was making decisions that enriched himself but hurt my investment. Seems like the kind of thing the SEC would investigate, but I have no clue what the laws surrounding all that are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricofoley Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 The Public Is Rapidly Turning Against AI, Polling Shows FUTURISM.COM AI isn't nearly as popular as some would have you believe — and it seems that public opinion is shifting against it. ruh roh 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 8 hours ago, TwinIon said: Seems like the kind of thing the SEC would investigate The SEC is grossly underfunded to the point that their whole thing is basically “hey, you made money by manipulating some stock… give us a small cut of what you made please. Thanks!” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chakoo Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 11 hours ago, Ricofoley said: The Public Is Rapidly Turning Against AI, Polling Shows FUTURISM.COM AI isn't nearly as popular as some would have you believe — and it seems that public opinion is shifting against it. ruh roh Not shocking, techbros are trying to run Generative AI into the ground. There is still some great stuff coming out of this that will be helpful to people but I think my bigger pet peeve is everybody lumping all AI in with GenAI. I don't think people understand how much AI is used in our daily lives and I fear some of this backlash will bleed into the same type of mindset we see with anti vaxers. =/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legend Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 7 minutes ago, chakoo said: Not shocking, techbros are trying to run Generative AI into the ground. There is still some great stuff coming out of this that will be helpful to people but I think my bigger pet peeve is everybody lumping all AI in with GenAI. I don't think people understand how much AI is used in our daily lives and I fear some of this backlash will bleed into the same type of mindset we see with anti vaxers. =/ That people have decided that AI now means Generative ML is deeply infuriating to me. I do put a lot of blame on OpenAI leadership for this nonsense. They are such irresponsible pseudoscentific twats. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinIon Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 hour ago, legend said: That people have decided that AI now means Generative ML is deeply infuriating to me. I do put a lot of blame on OpenAI leadership for this nonsense. They are such irresponsible pseudoscentific twats. Personally, I would be happy if there is a sufficient backlash against generative ML to the point that they need to rebrand it. I feel like calling everything AI is a disservice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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