Today we find out if you can refuse to serve gay weddings on religious grounds, and if up to $20k in student loans will be forgiven. UPDATE: 6-3 ruling in favor of religious business owner and against Biden's loan forgiveness

[TUFKAK]

3 minutes ago, Brian said:

Lock up the people who had their PPE loans forgiven.

Why you gotta hate such American heroes like former sugar baby and Americas darling Tom Brady like that?

[mclumber1]

1 hour ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

How is student loan forgiveness unconstitutional? 

 

It's not.  If Congress had passed a law that did this, I don't think SCOTUS would have ruled against it. 

[crispy4000]

2 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

Summary of part of it: “New: President Biden says his admin is introducing a "new path" under the Higher Education Act that will still provide relief "to as many borrowers as possible, as quickly as possible."

The plan will allow Education Secretary Miguel Cardona to "compromise, waive or release loans under certain circumstances." The new approach, according to Biden, will be in a "different law than my original plan."

Roberts opinion explicitly references it as having limited powers.  So this just drags it out.  While payments restart and interest accrues.

[SaysWho?]

6 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

Roberts opinion explicitly references it as having limited powers.  So this just drags it out.  While payments restart and interest accrues.

Limited =\= none. Let them take it to court if they have a problem with it. 
 

What we know now is the cap in payments was lowered to 5% off income from 10%, there will be a 12 month grace period where missing a payment won’t affect credit, and the lengthier HEA route is another avenue to get people relief they should have.

[crispy4000]

19 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

Limited =\= none. Let them take it to court if they have a problem with it. 

Roberts outlined the limits.  No reason to think the same court would think any differently later.

The grace period was probably needed, but there’s likely going to be an interest bomb for people who abstain from payments.  We’ll have to see what they outline, but it certainly sounds like your balance could increase unlike in their IDR plan.

 

5% IDR plan was announced earlier.  Going to help a lot of folks make it by, assuming it holds.

[Reputator]

2 hours ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

How is student loan forgiveness unconstitutional? 

 

Because Conservative Justices didn't know what modify or waive mean and didn't have a dictionary handy.

[CitizenVectron]

At some point a Democratic President needs to invoke a "John Roberts has made his decision, now let him enforce it." Okay, so SCOTUS has made a decision. Ignore it. Force a constitutional crisis. Pass an executive order legalizing abortion in all 50 states, or something like it. Send in the national guard to enforce. 

 

But Riley, you say, that will only allow future Republican Presidents to do the same thing!

 

They already are! They break the existing rules as much as they want and get away with it, they will eventually do this exact thing. They only don't do it right now because they've done enough illegal things to gain control of SCOTUS illegitimately for the next two generations. Might as well beat them to it on issues that are very popular and just ignore the judicial branch, SCOTUS specifically. American democracy is in its final stages and I don't think anyone here credibly believes the decline can be halted. Abuse the system (or break it) as much as the GOP, because when the GOP thinks it is able to get away with it then it will be too late.

[Chris-]

It isn't a good idea because law enforcement is compromised, not because it lacks justification.

[Reputator]

17 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

At some point a Democratic President needs to invoke a "John Roberts has made his decision, now let him enforce it." Okay, so SCOTUS has made a decision. Ignore it. Force a constitutional crisis. Pass an executive order legalizing abortion in all 50 states, or something like it. Send in the national guard to enforce. 

 

But Riley, you say, that will only allow future Republican Presidents to do the same thing!

 

They already are! They break the existing rules as much as they want and get away with it, they will eventually do this exact thing. They only don't do it right now because they've done enough illegal things to gain control of SCOTUS illegitimately for the next two generations. Might as well beat them to it on issues that are very popular and just ignore the judicial branch, SCOTUS specifically. American democracy is in its final stages and I don't think anyone here credibly believes the decline can be halted. Abuse the system (or break it) as much as the GOP, because when the GOP thinks it is able to get away with it then it will be too late.

 

I get the desire to want to go scorched earth over all the failings, but the way to do this is through legislation. "But Reputator!" you say. "Congress is inept, nothing gets done!" Yeah not sure about that. SCOTUS actually did give us a win with allowing judicial oversight of electoral map drawing, while also giving us enough rage fuel to drive seven more 2022 mid-terms in the future. Overturning Roe v Wade did that, and now Democrats have a bunch more campaign fodder.

 

We passed legislature to protect gay marriage when that was jeopardized. There's other things too and @SaysWho? is way better at this than me, but we actually HAVE made a lot of progress legislatively, and if need be we can potentially change how much power SCOTUS has, or change the concept altogether.

[SuperSpreader]

1 hour ago, Brian said:

Lock up the people who had their PPE loans forgiven.

[SaysWho?]

1 hour ago, crispy4000 said:

Roberts outlined the limits.  No reason to think the same court would think any differently later.

The grace period was probably needed, but there’s likely going to be an interest bomb for people who abstain from payments.  We’ll have to see what they outline, but it certainly sounds like your balance could increase unlike in their IDR plan.

 

5% IDR plan was announced earlier.  Going to help a lot of folks make it by, assuming it holds.

BOLD = you’re absolutely right. They should still do it, though.

[SaysWho?]

23 minutes ago, Reputator said:

 

I get the desire to want to go scorched earth over all the failings, but the way to do this is through legislation. "But Reputator!" you say. "Congress is inept, nothing gets done!" Yeah not sure about that. SCOTUS actually did give us a win with allowing judicial oversight of electoral map drawing, while also giving us enough rage fuel to drive seven more 2022 mid-terms in the future. Overturning Roe v Wade did that, and now Democrats have a bunch more campaign fodder.

 

We passed legislature to protect gay marriage when that was jeopardized. There's other things too and @SaysWho? is way better at this than me, but we actually HAVE made a lot of progress legislatively, and if need be we can potentially change how much power SCOTUS has, or change the concept altogether.

What I hope is this is the flame that lights the match to get all this into law while we stack the judiciary with better judges. The gay marriage law was a wonderful development: it’s time to do it for abortion and contraception.

[SaysWho?]

Information on the SAVE plan if you're paying off student debt currently:

 

Secretary Cardona Statement on Supreme Court Ruling on Biden Administration's One Time Student Debt Relief Plan | U.S. Department of Education

WWW.ED.GOV

https://www2.ed.gov/policy/highered/reg/hearulemaking/2021/idrfactsheetfinal.pdf

 

The amount of income protected from payments on the SAVE plan will rise from 150 percent to 225 percent of the Federal poverty guidelines (FPL). This change means a single borrower who earns less than $32,805 a year ($67,500 for a family of four) will not have to make payments. As a result, we estimate that more than 1 million additional low-income borrowers will qualify for a $0 payment, including 400,000 who are already enrolled on the REPAYE plan and will see this benefit applied automatically. This will allow them to focus on food, rent, and other basic needs instead of loan payments.

 

Borrowers not eligible for a $0 payment will save at least $1,000 a year compared to the current REPAYE plan. A single borrower would save $91 a month on payments ($1,080 a year), while a family of four would save $187 ($2,244 a year).

 

• The Department will stop charging any monthly interest not covered by the borrower's payment on the SAVE plan. As a result, borrowers who pay what they owe on this plan will no longer see their loans grow due to unpaid interest. We estimate that 70 percent of borrowers who were on IDR plan before the payment pause would stand to benefit from this change.

• Married borrowers who file their taxes separately will no longer be required to include their spouse's income in their payment calculation for SAVE. These borrowers will also have their spouse excluded from their family size when calculating IDR payments, simplifying the choice of repayment plan for borrowers.

[Ghost_MH]

How about no loan forgiveness, but legislation to prevent student loan debt from being tracked on credit reports. Throw medical debt in there while they're at it.

[TUFKAK]

Just keep the pause until I’m off my loa please.

[thewhyteboar]

"[L]ends at interest, and takes profit; shall he then live? He shall not live. He has done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon himself."

 

Usury is against my religion. I shall not be paying back those loans.

[Chris-]

Federal loans should not have interest. 

[crispy4000]

2 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

BOLD = you’re absolutely right. They should still do it, though.

With payments resuming I’d question that.

 

If they have no shot outside of congress of making it stick, this futile exercise will result in people not paying down their debts faster out of hope of forgiveness, but now costing them in interest.  I bet a large portion of people don’t make any payments these 12 months when they could otherwise afford it, because we Americans can be stubborn like that.

 

Perhaps a case could be made for IDR (SAVE) being worth it for some regardless.  But I sure as hell don’t trust the plan to be honored in 20 years time.  One promise is already unfulfilled, what’s another?

[crispy4000]

23 minutes ago, Chris- said:

Federal loans should not have interest. 

Make it variable with inflation.  Then make every college student borrowing money take a primer on what that means for their future.

 

I also don’t want colleges thinking they can charge more because the burden of interest is gone, or greatly reduced.

[crispy4000]

3 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

Information on the SAVE plan if you're paying off student debt currently:

 

Secretary Cardona Statement on Supreme Court Ruling on Biden Administration's One Time Student Debt Relief Plan | U.S. Department of Education

WWW.ED.GOV

https://www2.ed.gov/policy/highered/reg/hearulemaking/2021/idrfactsheetfinal.pdf

 

The amount of income protected from payments on the SAVE plan will rise from 150 percent to 225 percent of the Federal poverty guidelines (FPL). This change means a single borrower who earns less than $32,805 a year ($67,500 for a family of four) will not have to make payments. As a result, we estimate that more than 1 million additional low-income borrowers will qualify for a $0 payment, including 400,000 who are already enrolled on the REPAYE plan and will see this benefit applied automatically. This will allow them to focus on food, rent, and other basic needs instead of loan payments.

 

Borrowers not eligible for a $0 payment will save at least $1,000 a year compared to the current REPAYE plan. A single borrower would save $91 a month on payments ($1,080 a year), while a family of four would save $187 ($2,244 a year).

 

• The Department will stop charging any monthly interest not covered by the borrower's payment on the SAVE plan. As a result, borrowers who pay what they owe on this plan will no longer see their loans grow due to unpaid interest. We estimate that 70 percent of borrowers who were on IDR plan before the payment pause would stand to benefit from this change.

• Married borrowers who file their taxes separately will no longer be required to include their spouse's income in their payment calculation for SAVE. These borrowers will also have their spouse excluded from their family size when calculating IDR payments, simplifying the choice of repayment plan for borrowers.

 

Everyone in this situation should be checking out this calculator here:

 

Student Loan Forgiveness New REPAYE Calculator (2023)

WWW.STUDENTLOANPLANNER.COM

---

Want the best student loan forgiveness calculator? Compare the New REPAYE plan to existing options to find the best repayment path for you.

 

It goes through the grunt work of telling if it's actually worth doing the new plan (New REPAYE aka SAVE).  The column to pay most attention to in the results is "Present Value (Cost in Today's Dollars)" since it factors in inflation, wage increases, taxes, etc.  Make sure you put in something manually for refinancing, because rates today run higher than 4%.

 

These people also know their shit.  I've listened to their podcast a bunch during the pause.  Highly recommended for a neutral take on things, or just to be in awe of how needlessly complicated the whole thing is.

[Remarkableriots]

 

[Jason]

Brett Kavanaugh Rules Against Loan Forgiveness Plan Citing Precedent That All Debts Mysteriously Vanish

WWW.THEONION.COM

---

The Onion brings you all of the latest news, stories, photos, videos and more from America's finest news source.

 

[unogueen]

12 hours ago, mclumber1 said:

 

Yes?

 

I thought this was America.

Freedom is a thing eh?

[osxmatt]

Does this means businesses can now post signs that say “we don’t serve gay people.”

 

Or better yet, maybe just a post a copy of the opinion?

[mclumber1]

1 hour ago, osxmatt said:

Does this means businesses can now post signs that say “we don’t serve gay people.”

 

Or better yet, maybe just a post a copy of the opinion?

 

No.  It means that a tattoo parlor owned by a black person is not required to tattoo the KKK symbol on a white supremacist's arm.  If the white supremacist wants a tattoo from one of the ones that is already offered by the tattoo artist, the tattoo artist has to provide that service to the customer.

[Chris-]

15 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

Make it variable with inflation.  Then make every college student borrowing money take a primer on what that means for their future.

 

I also don’t want colleges thinking they can charge more because the burden of interest is gone, or greatly reduced.

 

No, there should be none. Zero.

[osxmatt]

1 hour ago, mclumber1 said:

 

No.  It means that a tattoo parlor owned by a black person is not required to tattoo the KKK symbol on a white supremacist's arm.  If the white supremacist wants a tattoo from one of the ones that is already offered by the tattoo artist, the tattoo artist has to provide that service to the customer.

 

Social and political affiliation isn't a protected status though.

[crispy4000]

45 minutes ago, Chris- said:

 

No, there should be none. Zero.

 

Could 0% interest rates settle the student loan debate?

FORTUNE.COM

---

Is there a case to be made for cancelling interest rates for federal loans?

 

[Ricofoley]

I haven't been able to stop thinking about the fact that the marriage website case was brought on behalf of a woman who had designed exactly zero marriage websites. These cases are entirely vibes-based. Working completely backwards starting from whatever SCOTUS outcome they're trying to get to.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

1 hour ago, Chris- said:

 

No, there should be none. Zero.

Education is a social service and there should never be a cost associated with it. Any other option is quite frankly illiberal 

[CitizenVectron]

Post-secondary should all be free, and provided through the government (same as elementary and high school). Programs don't even all need to be four/five-year degrees, because in reality different professions/skills require different amounts of learning.

[Kal-El814]

1 hour ago, CitizenVectron said:

Post-secondary should all be free, and provided through the government (same as elementary and high school). Programs don't even all need to be four/five-year degrees, because in reality different professions/skills require different amounts of learning.

 

Four years of college is good, regardless of whether you're spending that time studying chemistry or English lit. College shouldn't be a job training program anyway.

[Chris-]

1 hour ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Education is a social service and there should never be a cost associated with it. Any other option is quite frankly illiberal 

Well yeah but let’s pick the lowest hanging fruit first. 

[Fizzzzle]

0% interest doesn't solve the problem of rampant tuition inflation. In the span of one generation we've gone from paying your way through school being a legitimate option to you'll be paying off your loans until you're dead. A big part of that was universities jacking up prices simply because it's really free money for them.

[unogueen]

On 7/1/2023 at 9:39 PM, Fizzzzle said:

0% interest doesn't solve the problem of rampant tuition inflation. In the span of one generation we've gone from paying your way through school being a legitimate option to you'll be paying off your loans until you're dead. A big part of that was universities jacking up prices simply because it's really free money for them.

You don't have to have this runaway tuition cost. The most prestigious school in Canada is the University of Toronto and even a post grad semester there is piddles to the ballet school I worked for that was an elaborate excuse for rich people to pass the their children on to a full time babysitting operation. So much of what could be is in the hands of state already. I'd be stupid to be optimistic but they definitely can do things.