outsida Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 1 hour ago, sblfilms said: It is decidedly not stupid, and it isn’t the time to make it. There will be motion hearings in the not too distant future and you can be 100% sure they will indeed raise the issue because the plain reading of the law says this charge isn’t prosecutable due to SOL. There would need to be some case law that says different, or a court willing to establish new precedent. Even if there is case law that is on Bragg’s side, the defendant will argue why this case doesn’t fit the fact pattern of the established precedents. The Manhattan District Attorney would not bring a case that could not resoundingly stand against SOL. I was just talking to my mother about this tonight because she was concerned about the SOL. I told her, The statute of limitations for a continuing crime starts when the criminal conduct stops or the last act in the series of criminal acts occurs. This means that the clock on the statute of limitations does not begin to run until the defendant stops engaging in the criminal conduct. It was revealed that Cohen received the last payment for the Stormy payoff (and others) in 2018. The five years clock for these felony charges started from there and was extended by Executive Order one year due to the Covid-19 pandemic. That means the DA had until 2024 to file charge not withstanding any residency ambiguity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 Trump Tower Doorman Was Paid $30,000 to Hide Story of Trump’s Out-of-Wedlock Child, Manhattan D.A. Says NEWREPUBLIC.COM Well, this was unexpected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 Just now, outsida said: The Manhattan District Attorney would not bring a case that could not resoundingly stand against SOL. My guy, there is nothing special about the Manhattan DA. These people make basic errors of law *regularly*. I really have no idea what you are basing this on. 2 minutes ago, outsida said: The statute of limitations for a continuing crime starts when the criminal conduct stops or the last act in the series of criminal acts occurs. This means that the clock on the statute of limitations does not begin to run until the defendant stops engaging in the criminal conduct. It was revealed that Cohen received the last payment for the Stormy payoff (and others) in 2018. The five years clock for these felony charges started from there and was extended by Executive Order one year due to the Covid-19 pandemic. That means the DA had until 2024 to file charge not withstanding any residency ambiguity. This is just incorrect. Read the indictment. The dates of the alleged crimes are quite clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outsida Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 16 minutes ago, marioandsonic said: Is there any reason for optimism at this point? Wisconsinites voted in a progressive majority Supreme Court and the Progressive candidate won the Chicago mayoral runoff tonight in an off-off year election. Meaning that voters will likely be there in 2024 to stop Trump and the Republicans. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 1 hour ago, sblfilms said: It is a shockingly bad idea to allow criminal charges against sitting presidents. The ability for bad actors in the opposition party to gum up the works on the duties of the POTUS would render the job impossible to do. There are several processes to remove them, file away after they are out. Watch DA Bragg use this “can’t indict a sitting president!” Line during argument about statute of limitations 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairslinger Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 4 minutes ago, Jason said: Trump Tower Doorman Was Paid $30,000 to Hide Story of Trump’s Out-of-Wedlock Child, Manhattan D.A. Says NEWREPUBLIC.COM Well, this was unexpected. With the National Enquirer stuff roaring back to relevance I would love to know if there was ever any meat on the bone to speculation that the paid abortion thing was a scheme by Trump to hide that he was the one responsible. Remember it always seemed suspicious that the only three "clients" of Micheal Cohen was Trump, Hannity, and a third rando who paid off a woman through Cohen to have an abortion. Even used the same stock form letter to do the deal with some details changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 Honestly the biggest weakness I see in the case is that cohen was convicted of a federal, not New York State, crime. From what I see the felony statute says something about “a crime” And not specifically state or federal. Which is why during his press conference he kept saying something to the effect of “violations of state and federal law”. If it gets that far this will be what higher courts will be sorting out i do think that a plain reading of the law for the statute for statute of limitations is self explanatory but the Devil is in the case law details i can see why people have been saying that this is the weak case against trump especially compared to what we know in Georgia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outsida Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 12 minutes ago, sblfilms said: My guy, there is nothing special about the Manhattan DA. These people make basic errors of law *regularly*. I really have no idea what you are basing this on. This is just incorrect. Read the indictment. The dates of the alleged crimes are quite clear. 1. I agree lawyers are people and people can make big mistakes. 2. I have read the charging sheet, see page 14. The last invoice was in December 2017… There is no SOL issue here, not even close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outsida Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 12 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: Honestly the biggest weakness I see in the case is that cohen was convicted of a federal, not New York State, crime. From what I see the felony statute says something about “a crime” And not specifically state or federal. Which is why during his press conference he kept saying something to the effect of “violations of state and federal law”. If it gets that far this will be what higher courts will be sorting out i do think that a plain reading of the law for the statute for statute of limitations is self explanatory but the Devil is in the case law details i can see why people have been saying that this is the weak case against trump especially compared to what we know in Georgia I don’t think this case relies on any federal crimes to boost the charges to felonies. New York State has its own income taxes and the payments to Cohen were structured so that he would be made whole and then some after federal and STATE taxes are factored in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, outsida said: I don’t think this case relies on any federal crimes to boost the charges to felonies. New York State has its own income taxes and the payments to Cohen were structured so that he would be made whole and then some after federal and STATE taxes are factored in. Weak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outsida Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 Strong, this is a paper case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 1 minute ago, outsida said: 1. I agree lawyers are people and people can make big mistakes. 2. I have read the charging sheet, see page 14. The last invoice was in December 2017… 1. as I explained earlier, it doesn’t even have to be a mistake! It can be a situation where the prosecutor thinks they have a case law advantage despite what the statutes say. They may believe they can make an argument to expand case law in a way that will get the result they want. And in the case of prosecuting Trump, it may be that they believe it is worth the risk. 2. December of 2017 is not 2018. Additionally, you misunderstand what the executive orders you mentioned previously did. It did not push back all clocks by the 228 days (not a year, by the way). We already have case law out of the appellate courts in NYS picking and choosing applicability. I don’t think it has even been tested in criminal cases! Anybody making the claim that the state definitely has the extra 228 days is lying or ignorant, and you shouldn’t trust their opinion here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nokra Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 I love how many lawyers we have on D1P. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outsida Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 I see, I guess we’ll see what the outcome is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 There is a reason I'm waiting for more information before saying anything as an ex-lawyer. Though it's been so long since I practiced I don't claim to know as much as I once did. Statute of limitations stuff can get incredibly weird and complex and it's also state by state dependent and it'll also depend on the case law precedent within that state that has been set within the realm of these specific charges (falsification of business records) - so whoever brings to bear better legal research and legal analysis will likely succeed if the law isn't clear and plain on its face to the judge with regard to the statute of limitations. My general guess is that while lawyers are all over the place in terms of quality and many make all kinds of mistakes, pulling the trigger to be the first in American history to indict a former American president, I'd think Bragg and his team of lawyers would at least have had the conversations being had in this thread and still felt confident enough to put the case forward. I need more before I'd feel confident even speculating yet though of course speculating is part of the fun. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairslinger Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 37 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said: There is a reason I'm waiting for more information before saying anything as an ex-lawyer. Though it's been so long since I practiced I don't claim to know as much as I once did. Statute of limitations stuff can get incredibly weird and complex and it's also state by state dependent and it'll also depend on the case law precedent within that state that has been set within the realm of these specific charges (falsification of business records) - so whoever brings to bear better legal research and legal analysis will likely succeed if the law isn't clear and plain on its face to the judge with regard to the statute of limitations. My general guess is that while lawyers are all over the place in terms of quality and many make all kinds of mistakes, pulling the trigger to be the first in American history to indict a former American president, I'd think Bragg and his team of lawyers would at least have had the conversations being had in this thread and still felt confident enough to put the case forward. I need more before I'd feel confident even speculating yet though of course speculating is part of the fun. If that is true, probably not great for Trump who tends to have some of the losiest lawyers in American history. Unless there is a ref bump and Aileen Cannon runs in to shout out legal strategies for Trump's lawyers to try out.... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 23 minutes ago, Chairslinger said: If that is true, probably not great for Trump who tends to have some of the losiest lawyers in American history. Unless there is a ref bump and Aileen Cannon runs in to shout out legal strategies for Trump's lawyers to try out.... Yeah, I think this is an important take away - Trump's down beyond the bottom of the barrel with lawyers so I can't imagine they'll do a good job at all even if an argument to be made in the case is in their favor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneticBlueprint Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 1 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairslinger Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 16 minutes ago, GeneticBlueprint said: Still love how his first physical listed him as exactly one pound under obese. 239, if memory serves. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nokra Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 34 minutes ago, GeneticBlueprint said: I can't tell what's real anymore sometimes - is this a joke or for real? Is that something that would be released/leaked? If so - completely believable that's his actual weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 9 hours ago, Nokra said: I love how many lawyers we have on D1P. To be honest, lawyering is like the least impressive of the professional degrees, only slightly ahead of chiropractors. No offense to my guy @Greatoneshere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 3 minutes ago, sblfilms said: To be honest, lawyering is like the least impressive of the professional degrees, only slightly ahead of chiropractors. Speaking as an accountant, I beg to differ! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 9 hours ago, Nokra said: I love how many lawyers we have on D1P. Been a while, but… D1P Legal Team… ASSEMBLE @ByWatterson - Grew a beard and abandoned the profession, then the boards! @dreammitchconner - Just abandoned the boards, but an email thread with Kal confirmed that the Naughty Dog employee who leaked TLOU2 details would be given the death penalty, so possibly unreliable in these matters! @Greatoneshere - I honestly can’t remember his deal when it comes to his status on the D1P Legal Team! @LazyPiranha - Works in New Jersey so maybe not the best person to talk about NYS legal affairs! @sblfilms - No degree in law, but he reads the articles which makes him more informed than 95% of users here! There’s always someone I forget here, YOLO 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said: There’s always someone I forget here, YOLO I can be your lawyer if you pay me enough money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 I’m the d1p paralegal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarSolo Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 I’m Italian, so it’s in my nature that I know a bunch of lawyers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarSolo Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 Also, thanks to Twitter being a right wing hellscape, my “For You” section, which is how I see anything my friends actually tweet for some reason… is now nothing but Charlie Kirk asking Republican lawyers to be brave and prosecute some Democrats. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 2 hours ago, sblfilms said: To be honest, lawyering is like the least impressive of the professional degrees, only slightly ahead of chiropractors. No offense to my guy @Greatoneshere I dunno about least impressive, a good law school is hell to go through, but it's definitely not impressive to meet someone who graduated college and then law school, I agree. It was definitely a lot harder than graduate business school, which I thought was a joke when getting my MBA, but it's not nearly as hard as medical school. I'd argue it's a lot harder than most regular graduate degrees like in philosophy or English literature or whatever (you said professional degrees, so those may not count) but definitely not as impressive as lawyers try to make it out to be. To me, anything at the graduate level on the science side like engineering, etc. seem way more impressive, but then engineers have told me that public speaking, etc. that lawyers do horrifies them and they find it impressive so your personality determines things to a degree too. But I agree, it's not as impressive as it's held up to be which is why many quit the profession and the lifestyle is typically horrible and it creates a lot of alcoholics! 2 hours ago, Kal-El814 said: Been a while, but… D1P Legal Team… ASSEMBLE @ByWatterson - Grew a beard and abandoned the profession, then the boards! @dreammitchconner - Just abandoned the boards, but an email thread with Kal confirmed that the Naughty Dog employee who leaked TLOU2 details would be given the death penalty, so possibly unreliable in these matters! @Greatoneshere - I honestly can’t remember his deal when it comes to his status on the D1P Legal Team! @LazyPiranha - Works in New Jersey so maybe not the best person to talk about NYS legal affairs! @sblfilms - No degree in law, but he reads the articles which makes him more informed than 95% of users here! There’s always someone I forget here, YOLO My status is don't be a lawyer unless you love the law and the practice of law, and love paper pushing and most of your life being behind a computer at a desk doing boring legal research and legal writing. I graduated law school in 2012 and tried to practice for 1.5 years but quit at the end of 2013 because it sucked hard (for me, I know lawyers who love what they do). I switched careers and then got my MBA so I'd have a dual-degree JD/MBA to help me out with getting legal adjacent and non-lawyer type jobs because I didn't want to practice law anymore. I still know the law and remember a good bit about it but I don't claim to be an expert, just an ex-lawyer from 10 years ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 4 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said: My status is don't be a lawyer unless you love the law and the practice of law, and love paper pushing and most of your life being behind a computer at a desk doing boring legal research and legal writing. I graduated law school in 2012 and tried to practice for 1.5 years but quit at the end of 2013. I switched careers and then got my MBA so I'd have a dual-degree JD/MBA to help me out with getting legal adjacent and non-lawyer type jobs because I didn't want to practice law anymore. I still know the law and remember a good bit about it but I don't claim to be an expert, just an ex-lawyer from 10 years ago. So you're the Andreas Maler of d1p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 11 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said: So you're the Andreas Maler of d1p I haven't played Pentiment yet but I'll assume this is a good thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 A Judge Asked Trump to Chill. Trump Mocked the Judge’s Wife. WWW.VICE.COM “I have a Trump-hating judge with a Trump-hating wife and family,” the former president said just hours after leaving the courtroom. Quote Trump’s inner circle has been openly fretting about the possibility that Trump could be gagged in his Manhattan criminal case, which revolves around accusations that Trump falsified business records relating to a 2016 hush money payment to adult film star Stormy Daniels. A gag order would silence Trump on his new favorite subject: His claims of political persecution at the hands of supposedly biased prosecutors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepee Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 All so can do is read that quote and think PRESIDENTIAL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 1 hour ago, Greatoneshere said: but then engineers have told me that public speaking, etc. that lawyers do horrifies them and they find it impressive These people are dumb nerds trust me 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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