Television The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power - Latest: Season 2 commences filming. Set catches fire.

[legend]

7 hours ago, Spork3245 said:

 

 

This seems more like wishful thinking than following the evidence.

[Spork3245]

2 hours ago, legend said:

 

This seems more like wishful thinking than following the evidence.

Eh, I dunno, he makes some good points. The biggest evidence for Gandalf is the “affinity for halflings” and the “follow your nose” line, the latter of which could certainly be another Peter Jackson movie reference. Regardless, I believe I mentioned earlier itt that I’m very much leaning “Gandalf” at this point, however, I also don’t think the writers/show runners are 100% committed to which Istari The Stranger is yet. I’d prefer one of the blue wizards mostly because, IMO, there’s more that can be done with one of them (without nerd outrage  ) as so little is known of them beyond the most basic of things.

[legend]

6 hours ago, Spork3245 said:

Eh, I dunno, he makes some good points. The biggest evidence for Gandalf is the “affinity for halflings” and the “follow your nose” line, the latter of which could certainly be another Peter Jackson movie reference. Regardless, I believe I mentioned earlier itt that I’m very much leaning “Gandalf” at this point, however, I also don’t think the writers/show runners are 100% committed to which Istari The Stranger is yet. I’d prefer one of the blue wizards mostly because, IMO, there’s more that can be done with one of them (without nerd outrage  ) as so little is known of them beyond the most basic of things.

 

I find it very hard to believe that the screenwriters put in the follow your nose line *just* as a nod. It's unbelievably clear what that implies so they're either telling us who is he, or they're deliberately misleading us.

 

 

But lets put aside how strong the case is for Gandalf. What good points do you think he made that the stranger is a blue wizard? All I seemed to get from that video is him saying the blue wizards were around back then in Tolkien's lore, and he thinks it would be more interesting. Being more interesting to him isn't evidence that the stranger is a blue wizard, it's just a statement of what he wants, hence more wishful thinking than following the evidence  

[CayceG]

As with all the fake-outs and fan theories regarding who Sauron was, sometimes the most obvious answer is the correct one. The fan theories going deep on the lore was what caused the fake-outs in the first place. 

[Spork3245]

1 hour ago, legend said:

What good points do you think he made that the stranger is a blue wizard?

Points don’t have to be evidence in this sense, it’s all theories, including him being Gandalf.
“Follow your nose” is the biggest evidence for Gandalf, and iirc, is a movie quote and I don’t recall if it’s in the books or not; that quote is just so in your face it kills all mystery, which is why it’s weird for them not to just have Nori ask “so, what should I call you?” with the the final line before fade out being him replying with “Mithrandir” or something. That’s one of the reasons I feel as though they aren’t 100% committed and are leaving it open. As you already said, it could be misdirect alongside the 100 misdirects we had with Halbrand as well. I don’t recall much other evidence besides that line which screams “Gandalf!” tbh, most of the speculation prior to that line is based on him hanging around halflings and the fact that Gandalf is arguably the most known and popular LotR character.

[Mercury33]

I don’t think he says follow your nose exactly. But he does choose the correct path in Moria by following the “fresher air” which he also says right before the nose line in the show. 

[legend]

6 hours ago, Spork3245 said:

Points don’t have to be evidence in this sense, it’s all theories, including him being Gandalf.
“Follow your nose” is the biggest evidence for Gandalf, and iirc, is a movie quote and I don’t recall if it’s in the books or not; that quote is just so in your face it kills all mystery, which is why it’s weird for them not to just have Nori ask “so, what should I call you?” with the the final line before fade out being him replying with “Mithrandir” or something. That’s one of the reasons I feel as though they aren’t 100% committed and are leaving it open. As you already said, it could be misdirect alongside the 100 misdirects we had with Halbrand as well. I don’t recall much other evidence besides that line which screams “Gandalf!” tbh, most of the speculation prior to that line is based on him hanging around halflings and the fact that Gandalf is arguably the most known and popular LotR character.

 

It's fine to say that we can't be *certain* it's Gandalf; indeed it could be a deliberate misdirection. But the video makes all the same points we could have made if all we knew was that a wizard would be featured in the show. There's nothing in the show to favor it being a blue wizard and that makes for a poor theory based only on wishful thinking. But if you agree it's not evidence, then you must agree with my statement that it's "not following the evidence!"

[legend]

5 hours ago, Mercury33 said:

I don’t think he says follow your nose exactly. But he does choose the correct path in Moria by following the “fresher air” which he also says right before the nose line in the show. 

 

He does

 

 

 

[Spork3245]

11 hours ago, legend said:

 

It's fine to say that we can't be *certain* it's Gandalf; indeed it could be a deliberate misdirection. But the video makes all the same points we could have made if all we knew was that a wizard would be featured in the show. There's nothing in the show to favor it being a blue wizard and that makes for a poor theory based only on wishful thinking.

Hold-up, the video says he’s “leaning Gandalf” and/or “it’s probably Gandalf” at least twice, and at one point even says there’s a “high probability that this video is a fool’s errand”. The point of the video is only to show that it’s not definitely Gandalf  

 

11 hours ago, legend said:

But if you agree it's not evidence, then you must agree with my statement that it's "not following the evidence!"

Nope, because the evidence for Gandalf is mostly assumption based outside of the Peter Jackson nod.  

[Spork3245]

 @Commissar SFLUFAN

I didn’t realize that there’s a Sabaton song about the Ring Wraiths

Shadows - YouTube Music

MUSIC.YOUTUBE.COM

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Provided to YouTube by Nuclear Blast Shadows · Sabaton · Joakim Brodén · Joakim Brodén Metalizer (Re-Armed) ℗ 2010 Nuclear Blast Released on: 2010-09-24 ...

 

[legend]

6 hours ago, Spork3245 said:

Hold-up, the video says he’s “leaning Gandalf” and/or “it’s probably Gandalf” at least twice, and at one point even says there’s a “high probability that this video is a fool’s errand”. The point of the video is only to show that it’s not definitely Gandalf  

 

So the point of the video was just to retread the same thoughts everyone has already talked about since the beginning of the show (probably even before it first aired) rather than pointing out things in the show that actually indicates it's not what we think? Well alright then. Great "theory" video 

 

6 hours ago, Spork3245 said:

Nope, because the evidence for Gandalf is mostly assumption based outside of the Peter Jackson nod.  

 

 

I disagree, but I'm not really interested in dragging that out. Regardless you do agree there is evidence in favor of Gandalf, even if it's just one thing at the end and the video is not presenting the same.

 

[Spork3245]

36 minutes ago, legend said:

So the point of the video was just to retread the same thoughts everyone has already talked about since the beginning of the show (probably even before it first aired) rather than pointing out things in the show that actually indicates it's not what we think? Well alright then. Great "theory" video 

The point of the video is to say that it’s not definitively Gandalf and there’s strong lore-based evidence to that point (which the series may or may not follow), as well as the point made about the witches (I don’t know what else to call them). The mass assumption is that “it’s 100% Gandalf” (all over YouTube, forums, websites, etc), this video is to say “not necessarily” to those assumptions.

 

36 minutes ago, legend said:

Regardless you do agree there is evidence in favor of Gandalf, even if it's just one thing at the end and the video is not presenting the same.

The evidence in this video is just as weak as a single throw away line so people who watched the movies can go “that sounds familiar!”. I have a hard time truly calling that “evidence” in all honesty, because it’s incredibly meaningless. You’ve been responding as if there’s some massive clue directly in the show given beyond that line which screams “Gandalf”, but you’ve yet to say what it is.  
The strongest “evidence” (and we have to use it incredibly loosely) for Gandalf is “Gandalf is known and popular, and the show wants a known and popular character for non-book readers”.

[legend]

I'm not seeing a refutation to anything I've said.

 

16 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

The evidence in this video is just as weak as a single throw away line so people who watched the movies can go “that sounds familiar!”. I have a hard time truly calling that “evidence” in all honesty, because it’s incredibly meaningless.

 

lol if you say so. Not sure why you're killing yourself defending this. If we keep going I half expect you take up the position that no, it's not likely Gandalf, it's a blue wizard!

[Spork3245]

10 minutes ago, legend said:

I'm not seeing a refutation to anything I've said.

 

 

Read it again, then?  

 

10 minutes ago, legend said:

 

lol if you say so. Not sure why you're killing yourself defending this. 

I’m not sure why you’re getting snippy with me over me saying “I (meaning me personally) thought some good points were made in the video” and defending that stance. I’m not “killing myself” defending anything, but you seem to be getting worked up over that I won’t agree with you when I’m just having fun talking about a LotR show I like.  
 

10 minutes ago, legend said:

If we keep going I half expect you take up the position that no, it's not likely Gandalf, it's a blue wizard!

This makes zero sense. I think I’ve said “probably Gandalf” itt since the third episode came out. I’m just open to the idea of it not being Gandalf, and you clearly aren’t, but that seems to be upsetting you given that you’ve moved to insults and I can’t possibly imagine why.

It’s LotR, my guy, not a serious thing.  

[legend]

You seem to have completely misunderstood my point, and I'm not optimistic that I'm going to make you understand it here, so we'll just have to leave it there. Glad you enjoyed the video, but it didn't work for me.

[Spork3245]

5 minutes ago, legend said:

You seem to have completely misunderstood my point, and I'm not optimistic that I'm going to make you understand it here, so we'll just have to leave it there. Glad you enjoyed the video, but it didn't work for me.

Your point is seemingly that all “evidence” points to Gandalf and the video didn’t provide any [blue wizard] evidence directly from the show (we can choose to ignore the lore evidence). My counter point is that the throw away line isn’t really evidence, despite my feelings of The Stranger more-likely being Gandalf.

If your point is something wildly different, you’ve done a hell of a job of not detailing it.

[Brick]

The Rings of Power showrunners address how fan feedback will impact the second season | GamesRadar+

WWW.GAMESRADAR.COM

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The new season has already been written, but the co-showrunners are listening to your opinions

 

 

 

 

[CitizenVectron]

6 hours ago, Brick said:

The Rings of Power showrunners address how fan feedback will impact the second season | GamesRadar+

WWW.GAMESRADAR.COM

---

The new season has already been written, but the co-showrunners are listening to your opinions

 

 

 

 

 

Can't wait until they bring in JJ Abrams and the first line in S02E01 (from some random person in a village) is "Somehow, Morgoth has returned!"

[Mercury33]

No, they should listen to zero opinions. Just do what they planned. No one wants whatever Steve the Larping Idiot typed in all caps over and over. 

[69los]

Arondir will no longer be attracted to Bronwyn. They will introduce a more obvious POC female for him to be attracted to.

 

He will also be ring-sensitive.

 

[TwinIon]

After seeing that article Brick posted, I was curious what the audience reaction to the show was, and I'm kinda shocked that it's so bad. At least the major sites (RT, Metacritic, IMDB) all have really terrible user scores. The critics scores are good, not great, but the users really trashed it. I tend not to watch a lot of TV I expect to be bad, but there's no way this show is deserving of an F. Even if you account for a fanboy factor, I don't see how Rings of Power is 10 points worse than Halo, which was a mess.

[Spork3245]

45 minutes ago, TwinIon said:

After seeing that article Brick posted, I was curious what the audience reaction to the show was, and I'm kinda shocked that it's so bad. At least the major sites (RT, Metacritic, IMDB) all have really terrible user scores. The critics scores are good, not great, but the users really trashed it. I tend not to watch a lot of TV I expect to be bad, but there's no way this show is deserving of an F. Even if you account for a fanboy factor, I don't see how Rings of Power is 10 points worse than Halo, which was a mess.

It got review bombed by trolls from day one due to black elves. 

[legend]

Yeah I'm not sure the audience score is especially meaningful and I *really* hope they don't actually try to chase the nonsense that came from the criticism.

[Fizzzzle]

1 hour ago, legend said:

Yeah I'm not sure the audience score is especially meaningful and I *really* hope they don't actually try to chase the nonsense that came from the criticism.

I'm almost about as big of a Tolkien nerd as they come, and even I'll admit that my favorite parts of the show were the made up stuff. Adar, Arondir, and Durin Jr., who are all made up (or mostly made up in the case of Durin) are by far the best characters in the show.

 

The show definitely does have some pacing issues, which I hope is just from the fact that they were trying to establish way too many characters and that the pacing will be much more even moving forward, but I still thoroughly enjoyed it.

[legend]

1 hour ago, Fizzzzle said:

I'm almost about as big of a Tolkien nerd as they come, and even I'll admit that my favorite parts of the show were the made up stuff. Adar, Arondir, and Durin Jr., who are all made up (or mostly made up in the case of Durin) are by far the best characters in the show.

 

The show definitely does have some pacing issues, which I hope is just from the fact that they were trying to establish way too many characters and that the pacing will be much more even moving forward, but I still thoroughly enjoyed it.

Yeah I think there is room for criticism, but it was quite solid overall and not in need of major change. 

[Nokra]

I finally got around to watching this series. I was initially very hesitant to do so, given my enormous fandom of Tolkien's writings and my concerns that the studio was going to butcher this, but I'm so happy with the final results. 

 

First, it's absolutely beautiful. I initially watched this show on my tablet while on an airplane and now I'm going back and watching it on my 4K TV because damn, it's gorgeous. Top notch effects, cinematography, etc. It's easy to see where the budget went. The actors do a great job, IMO, and I love that they went with all relatively-unknown people. I love the slower pacing and the long establishing shots; Middle-earth never looked so good! 

 

I was also really concerned that they wouldn't treat the original source material with the respect that it --in my opinion-- deserves, but these worries were completely unfounded. I love all of the new characters they've created and IMO they fit in with the canon very well. The Harfoots, Adar, Bronwyn, Arondir, etc... they all flesh out the world sketched out by Tolkien so well without coming off as being shoehorned in, IMO. I have a couple minor quibbles also (e.g. what someone mentioned about Halbrand having to suggest to Celebrimbor that he should try creating an alloy with the mithril, as if one of the greatest Elven smiths wouldn't have thought of that ) but the changes from canon generally make sense to me and are pretty minor, IMO; it seems clear to me that the showrunners have enormous respect for the original material. Overall, I'm so impressed!

 

Lastly, I just want to say that I really appreciated and enjoyed reading the discussion about all of the minute aspects of the lore here. I mostly avoided this topic before I watched the show, but after watching the show I've now gone through and read all 18 pages. I will admit that it has been over a decade since I've read these books, but they remain my all-time favorites. It was really a pleasure to read everyone else geeking out on this stuff.  The wait of up to two years for the next season is going to be brutal! 

[Fizzzzle]

I personally think if they tried to do a "faithful" adaptation, it would have been boring as fuck. The only way I could see them doing that would be to basically make each season essentially its own mini series, with the only consistent characters being the Elves, but that would be a hard sell, I think.

 

I still say my favorite parts of the show are the made up characters. 

[BloodyHell]

On 11/1/2022 at 8:38 PM, legend said:

Yeah I'm not sure the audience score is especially meaningful and I *really* hope they don't actually try to chase the nonsense that came from the criticism.

True, but theres a lot of valud criticism from critics. Personally, it's my favorite new show, but they definitely made some choices that are baffling.

 

I do think Galadriels arc was prrtty bad overall, which was my biggest problem, as I explained earlier in this thread. 

 

But the "fan" criticism is just nonsense. Oh, the horror of black dwarves and elves!

[Nokra]

4 hours ago, BloodyHell said:

True, but theres a lot of valud criticism from critics. Personally, it's my favorite new show, but they definitely made some choices that are baffling.

 

I do think Galadriels arc was prrtty bad overall, which was my biggest problem, as I explained earlier in this thread. 

 

But the "fan" criticism is just nonsense. Oh, the horror of black dwarves and elves!

 

Yeah I also do hope that they will listen to the worthwhile criticism and ignore the racism-based criticism.  

 

I'm personally less concerned with the tropes used to build Galadriel's arc (if I'm understanding your post correctly) though. I don't think they were employed in too ham-fisted of a way, and as @CitizenVectron and @Greatoneshere pointed out, I think they were coherent reasons (both logically and related to the story) for Galadriel to act the way she did. Regarding this post, for example:

 

On 10/15/2022 at 5:09 PM, BloodyHell said:

But the reason they went with was "The other elves will think you're in line with me", which is the worst possible trope of all, and keeping it from them is the thing that will actually make them lose that trust. It feels lazy, imo.

 

You may ultimately be right about how they tell the story (i.e. how long they drag it out before she sounds the alarm), but I think for now you are 1) likely making an assumption about this being her actual motivation for keeping quiet and 2) making some assumptions about which way the story will be told before it's actually told.

 

It was Sauron who made the argument that she can't tell the others because they'll think she's in league with him. Sauron is a manipulator, and it makes total sense that he would play off of this possible fear, but we don't know yet how much Galadriel will let the manipulation affect her. Early signs point to "not very much", IMO, since her reaction in that moment was to see through the manipulation and respond with bold defiance:

 

Galadriel: "I should have left you on the sea."

Sauron: "The sea that you were on because the elves cast you out. They cast you out for deigning to beg them for a few petty soldiers. What will they do when you tell them you were my ally? When you tell them that Sauron lives, because of you?!"

Galadriel: "And you will die because of me!"

 

And she immediately begins preparations to fight him. It's true she didn't tell Celebrimbor and Elrond within those two minutes that she was with them after being with Sauron , but as @CitizenVectron and @Greatoneshere also pointed out, she had some legit tactical reasons not to have done so. Besides the ones they mentioned, she wasn't even sure that Elrond was actually Elrond, for example! On that note, I did also notice that she didn't ask Celebrimbor to also verify his identity like she did with Elrond.  

 

Anyway, I think we'll just have to wait and see which way they go with it. I would totally agree that if they turn it into some drawn out drama of nobody believing her and suspecting her motivation across multiple episodes that will be lame as hell, but for now I think it's too early to know for sure. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Six actors for new recurring roles added for Season 2, the role of Adar has been recast:

 

‘Lord Of The Rings: The Rings Of Power’ Recasts Adar With Sam Hazeldine, Adds 6 More Actors For Season 2

DEADLINE.COM

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The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power is rounding out its Season 2 cast with seven actors added in recurring roles.

 

[GeneticBlueprint]

Oh man that's disappointing. Mawle was pretty much my favorite part of the first season.

[CitizenVectron]

That really sucks about Adar. Apparently the recast was for "behind the scenes" production issues. I take that to mean issues with the actor.

[Greatoneshere]

Adar recast blows. It does sound like it was the actor, but damn.

[Nokra]

4 hours ago, CitizenVectron said:

That really sucks about Adar. Apparently the recast was for "behind the scenes" production issues. I take that to mean issues with the actor.

 

3 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

Adar recast blows. It does sound like it was the actor, but damn.

Can't find a link at the moment but from the statement that the actor issued, it sounds like a scheduling issue, not a personality conflict or anything like that. 

[Greatoneshere]

8 minutes ago, Nokra said:

 

Can't find a link at the moment but from the statement that the actor issued, it sounds like a scheduling issue, not a personality conflict or anything like that. 

 

Yeah, my post sounded salacious, but I also meant it's on his schedule, not that he did anything wrong. It's interesting just how locked in these schedules are, where they'll recast than delay, wait, or fly between shoots.