Television The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power (Amazon Prime) - Season 2 Official Teaser Trailer (August 29)

[CitizenVectron]

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[CitizenVectron]

Interesting theory:

 

[Massdriver]

😁 

[Fizzzzle]

I can't talk enough about how much I LOVE the Orc designs on this show. It's by far my favorite thing.

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Man, Galadriel seems a wee bit genocidal, eh?

[Greatoneshere]

Anyone else think the Adar horse chase scene was incredibly well done? It actually felt like the horses were moving fast and actually chasing each other. And getting into the Moriondor and the corruption of a segment of Elves to be corrupted by Morgoth into the first Orcs. Somewhat humanizing the Orcs is a long time coming and the one thing Tolkien has caught fire for in his books.

[Brick]

6 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

Man, Galadriel seems a wee bit genocidal, eh?

 

Given that they're all evil monsters

 

[GeneticBlueprint]

Currently thinking that Halbrand is Sauron because we know so little about him. He wants revenge on Adar and Adar said he killed Sauron. Plus, he could have given the blood sword thing to the old guy that used it.

[Greatoneshere]

40 minutes ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

Currently thinking that Halbrand is Sauron because we know so little about him. He wants revenge on Adar and Adar said he killed Sauron. Plus, he could have given the blood sword thing to the old guy that used it.

 

All the smithing he seems inherently really good at doing is also another potential giveaway given Sauron's previous occupation when he was a Maiar. It's just I always assumed Sauron's "good" appearance would be an Elf-like form, not a Man-like one.

[Fizzzzle]

The whole bit about "orcs are also gods creatures" is something that Tolkien went back and forth about throughout the writing of middle earth. If orcs are just corrupted Elves, then that means they still have a soul and by definition are not entirely irredeemable, since they are also God's creatures.

 

At one point Tolkien wrote that orcs are basically automatons made from dirt to get around that moral quandary, but he went back on that too. He never really settled on a single origin story for Orcs.

 

Apologies because I know I've said it already in this thread, but he eventually wrote about the War of the Last Alliance that all creatures down to the birds and the beasts were divided that day, save for the Elves, who alone fought under Gil Galad. The implication there being that there were Orcs who fought against Sauron.

 

In fact, one reading you could take from Adar having "killed" Sauron is that he led the Orcs I'm rebellion against him.

[Fizzzzle]

Also I don't know if anyone else noticed that Adars blood is black. He really is an Orc of some sort.

[Captain Pickle]

On 9/30/2022 at 8:50 PM, Greatoneshere said:

Holy shit, that was the birth of: 

 

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the birth of Mount Doom, the fire/forge which will create the One Ring. Sauron is ten steps ahead of all of our heroes.

 

Great episode, loved it. 

I guess I’ll put my question in spoilers:

 

Spoiler

Wouldn’t mount doom have existed before since that sword activated the water or has it simply never been turned on

 

[CitizenVectron]

12 minutes ago, Captain Pickle said:

I guess I’ll put my question in spoilers:

 

  Hide contents

Wouldn’t mount doom have existed before since that sword activated the water or has it simply never been turned on

 

 

Spoiler

The water has never before been used for Mount Doom. Remember that it only went to Mount Doom because of the tunnels Adar had the Orcs did. In the past, it was most likely used to flood the plains of Gorgoroth for farming. The image of the blade through the man on the stone wall is appropriate—in order to make the land fertile, sacrifice was needed: the death of the people in much of the land. This land was one ruled by Morgoth in the first age, so it would be fitting that he would require people to sacrifice themselves to water the land.

 

[Captain Pickle]

2 hours ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

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The water has never before been used for Mount Doom. Remember that it only went to Mount Doom because of the tunnels Adar had the Orcs did. In the past, it was most likely used to flood the plains of Gorgoroth for farming. The image of the blade through the man on the stone wall is appropriate—in order to make the land fertile, sacrifice was needed: the death of the people in much of the land. This land was one ruled by Morgoth in the first age, so it would be fitting that he would require people to sacrifice themselves to water the land.

 

Amazing. Thanks!

[Greatoneshere]

2 hours ago, Captain Pickle said:

I guess I’ll put my question in spoilers:

 

  Hide contents

Wouldn’t mount doom have existed before since that sword activated the water or has it simply never been turned on

 

 

@CitizenVectron nailed the history. I believe this is the first time it is being used as a fire/forge. 

[Mercury33]

Ok fucking amazing episode. I have questions

 

Spoiler

Adar said he killed Sauron but he also clearly is responsible for MT Doom/the forge. Do we think he killed Sauron in the same way Vader killed Luke’s Father?

 

So where the Southlanders are, that’s Gorgoroth? That’s the barren plains Frodo had to cross right? I think this whole time I assumed they were just outside Mordor. Not inside it. 

 

[Greatoneshere]

1 hour ago, Mercury33 said:

Ok fucking amazing episode. I have questions

 

  Hide contents

Adar said he killed Sauron but he also clearly is responsible for MT Doom/the forge. Do we think he killed Sauron in the same way Vader killed Luke’s Father?

 

So where the Southlanders are, that’s Gorgoroth? That’s the barren plains Frodo had to cross right? I think this whole time I assumed they were just outside Mordor. Not inside it. 

 

I'll hide spoilers on this, though I don't think it's a spoiler:

 

Spoiler

I wouldn't believe a thing Adar is saying. He didn't kill Sauron. It's all a feint, he's a red herring (in my opinion) to throw off Men, Elves, and Dwarves from Sauron's trail. Adar has underground tunnels built so the water can be funneled into Mount Doom to create the fire/forge. He hunts the Morghul blade key for the whole season so Waldreg can unleash the water. Everything Adar has done helps Sauron get closer to forging the One Ring. No way Adar killed Sauron. He may have done something to him that Sauron wanted done to throw everyone off, but no way Adar is a splinter group. Remember, Sauron has to show up under a guise to help Celebrimbor and Gil-Galad create the rings for Men, Elves and Dwarves (as shown in the opening to FOTR, note Galadriel says: "we were all of us deceived"). These races get tricked directly by Sauron, who helps them create the rings, and then goes and creates the One Ring in secret. If someone shows up helping people create rings with knowledge no one should have, that's you're likely candidate for Sauron. Halbrand is a good candidate so far, and to a much lesser extent so is the Stranger. I don't think Adar himself is Sauron anymore though.

 

As for the Southlands (and Eastlands), that is indeed Gorgoroth. The area in Return of the King that Frodo and Sam walk that just looks like an entire area of land burnt to ash, that's the Southlands we're currently seeing. You can see any time they cut to a map in the show the Southlands are in that area that is covered by three sides with mountains. That area is the Southlands, where Sauron's home base is in LOTR, and where Ostirith, etc. all are during this season. 

 

[GeneticBlueprint]

I hope that we get lots more of Adar. The actor and character are fantastic. And his motivational speech to his troops was way more inspiring than Bronwyn's.

[Greatoneshere]

I think none of us should forget those white riders dressed in white that seemed ominous from episode 5 as well. We've had no elaboration on them since I believe.

[Mercury33]

One of the things I love so much about this show is that people at every level can get involved in the mysteries. My wife, whose only ever seen the movies is making educated guesses/theories. I’ve seen all the movies and read all the books and I’ve got my own ideas. Then you’ve got you guys who are way more well versed the lore in its entirety. And everyone can have these discussions together and everyone has a chance at being right since everything is just based off some scattered lore instead of a concrete set of written histories. I have as much fun learning and guessing in this thread as I do with friends who don’t know a fraction of the background. This show is so great. 

[Brick]

1 hour ago, Greatoneshere said:

I think none of us should forget those white riders dressed in white that seemed ominous from episode 5 as well. We've had no elaboration on them since I believe.

 

I've been wondering about them as well. 

[CitizenVectron]

Let's not forget that they've actively released promos containing the line "You will be known for who you truly are at last, Lord Sauron!"

 

Spoiler'd because reddit autoplays:

 

Spoiler

 

 

I'm guessing that's one of the cultist voices. While I do think it's plausible that Halbrand is Sauron pre-return-to-evil (they've certainly laid out all the hints), I still think it's a red herring and that we haven't met him. 

[Greatoneshere]

1 hour ago, Mercury33 said:

One of the things I love so much about this show is that people at every level can get involved in the mysteries. My wife, whose only ever seen the movies is making educated guesses/theories. I’ve seen all the movies and read all the books and I’ve got my own ideas. Then you’ve got you guys who are way more well versed the lore in its entirety. And everyone can have these discussions together and everyone has a chance at being right since everything is just based off some scattered lore instead of a concrete set of written histories. I have as much fun learning and guessing in this thread as I do with friends who don’t know a fraction of the background. This show is so great. 

 

One of my favorite parts of the show has been the guessing. The cool thing about Sauron in the Second Age as we know is it's meant to be a mystery, so I'm glad the show is playing it up. Arda is changing, wizards might be landing as comets from God/Illuvatar (what Adar calls "The One"), Sauron is hiding his identity, keen on tricking everyone into submission, and a lot of plots are at play since the fall of Morgoth and Sauron's run into hiding. The cool thing is we know Sauron succeeds and we have to get the Last Alliance of Elves and Men together (opening of FOTR). Seeing Sauron slowly win is gonna be agony but great.

[Brick]

1 hour ago, CitizenVectron said:

Let's not forget that they've actively released promos containing the line "You will be known for who you truly are at last, Lord Sauron!"

 

Since I don't watch previews, I didn't know that, actually. 

 

I don't know what all the hints that Halbrand is Sauron are. 

[ort]

2 hours ago, Brick said:

 

I've been wondering about them as well. 

 

We see more of them in the trailer.

[Fizzzzle]

41 minutes ago, Brick said:

 

I don't know what all the hints that Halbrand is Sauron are. 

I'll put in spoilers in case you don't want to know yet

 

Spoiler

Sauron was a smith, or at least as a Maia he served under Aule, who is sort of like a God of smithing and the one who created the Dwarves. So Halbrand immediately gravitating to smithing as soon as he gets to Numenor is a clue. We also still know nothing of his background beyond what he claims. Sauron also thrives with deception and cunning. He's a shapeshifter. Halbrand seems very good at telling people what they want to hear to get them to do what serves him. That's exactly what Sauron did. The Elves wanted the power to forge realms that imitated the realms of the Undying Lands. Sauron gave them that power. The Lords of Men wanted immortality - he gave the Men who would eventually become the Nazgul that power. We don't know too much about his interactions with the Dwarves, but we know the House of Durin became wealthier than ever after they got a Ring.

 

Basically, Halbrand is doing a lot of very Sauron-y things

 

Also, Sauron isn't like Morgoth. Morgoth wanted to destroy the world simply out of spite. Sauron doesn't want that. He wants to remake the world the way he envisions a perfect world. In that sense, he's not wholly evil, or at least he wouldn't consider himself such. So Halbrand having moments of humility or goodness wouldn't be completely out of character for Sauron. Sauron isn't even incarnate, he just has a very specific image of what he wants the world to be and will do anything to achieve it.

 

[CitizenVectron]

1 hour ago, Fizzzzle said:

I'll put in spoilers in case you don't want to know yet

 

  Hide contents

Sauron was a smith, or at least as a Maia he served under Aule, who is sort of like a God of smithing and the one who created the Dwarves. So Halbrand immediately gravitating to smithing as soon as he gets to Numenor is a clue. We also still know nothing of his background beyond what he claims. Sauron also thrives with deception and cunning. He's a shapeshifter. Halbrand seems very good at telling people what they want to hear to get them to do what serves him. That's exactly what Sauron did. The Elves wanted the power to forge realms that imitated the realms of the Undying Lands. Sauron gave them that power. The Lords of Men wanted immortality - he gave the Men who would eventually become the Nazgul that power. We don't know too much about his interactions with the Dwarves, but we know the House of Durin became wealthier than ever after they got a Ring.

 

Basically, Halbrand is doing a lot of very Sauron-y things

 

Also, Sauron isn't like Morgoth. Morgoth wanted to destroy the world simply out of spite. Sauron doesn't want that. He wants to remake the world the way he envisions a perfect world. In that sense, he's not wholly evil, or at least he wouldn't consider himself such. So Halbrand having moments of humility or goodness wouldn't be completely out of character for Sauron. Sauron isn't even incarnate, he just has a very specific image of what he wants the world to be and will do anything to achieve it.

 

 

To add onto this:

Spoiler

As mentioned, Sauron followed Morgoth in the First Age because he believed that the best way to create a new, better-ordered world was to act fast and brutally, which Morgoth was good at. After Morgoth's defeat, however, there was a time (indeterminate) where Sauron basically repented and realized he was wrong to follow Morgoth. After a time, however, he came around and realized that yes, only by destroying the current order could he create a new, better (more ordered) order.

 

So it's possible that this series will not only show Sauron's rise to power over Middle Earth, but also his turn from redeemed-villain back to full-villain. At this point he may not be fully evil (if he ever was, in the same way Morgoth was), but rather just unsure of which way to go to forge the path he needs. 

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

I'm still on the "misdirection" bandwagon regarding Halbrand actually being Sauron

[CayceG]

Good lord, that episode was amazing. Especially that ending!

[CayceG]

So a friend of mine is a bow hunter, writer, and what I would call an archery expert. He caught this tidbit:

 

 

Quote

So a nerdy archery observation on Rings of Power....the elves draw their bows "Apache style" with  flipped draw hand (knuckle to face). Many North American tribes drew their bows that way though normally canted or angled...not upright.

The humans in Rings of Power draw the English way. Palm open to the cheek and finger anchored to mouth.

 

I thought that was a cool cultural tidbit. The elves being more connected to nature and the Earth like Native Americans...it makes sense.

 

 

It is so fucking cool how the show creators put this in. This is a fantastic addition. 

[Greatoneshere]

1 hour ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

I'm still on the "misdirection" bandwagon regarding Halbrand actually being Sauron

 

Same. The evidence seems to indicate Halbrand, but I just don't see Sauron taking that form. The show can play fast and loose with things, so it's certainly possible, but seems like an obvious misdirect.

[ort]

It seems like an obvious misdirection for hardcore nerds... but 99% of the people watching it will not be expecting it.

 

I think it has to be him. There are too many clues. My question is how long do they drag it out? I think they will have to tip their hand this season, because once people figure it out, it will leak out into the mainstream and they won't be able to get that "No, I am your father" moment, because of the internet and how fast stuff like this spreads.

[Fizzzzle]

20 hours ago, CayceG said:

So a friend of mine is a bow hunter, writer, and what I would call an archery expert. He caught this tidbit:

 

 

 

 

It is so fucking cool how the show creators put this in. This is a fantastic addition. 

It would be cool if, later when we see Noldor Elves (galadriel, etc) using bows, that they also draw English style. Arondir is a wood Elf and I think it would be cool if they dove into the different kinds of Elves at some point.

 

In tHe LoRe, wood elves fucking hated the Noldor, as they thought of them as deceitful little shits who were responsible for bringing Morgoth back to middle earth in the first place. Galadriel is something of an exception.

[CayceG]

33 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

 

In tHe LoRe, wood elves fucking hated the Noldor, as they thought of them as deceitful little shits who were responsible for bringing Morgoth back to middle earth in the first place. Galadriel is something of an exception.

 

I mean...

 

 

They weren't wrong!

[Brick]

That was a very cool looking opening.