Checking in on the right wing critical race theory panic

[CitizenVectron]

2 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

The administrators/teachers unions aren't helping themselves -- one example from the last week from the union that represents the teachers at my kid's school.  The strangest parts are in the first two articles and the middle school lesson plans.  Whether you agree with the content or not, it's clear that a lot of parents would have issues with the politics in this paper.

 

On a tangent, this is one of the strangest things I have read in a long time about someone travelling to a park on the outskirts of a Hamilton suburb:

 

 

I mean...they aren't wrong (first tweet).

[Ghost_MH]

52 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

I mean...they aren't wrong (first tweet).

 

That tweet was basically the entire theme of Captain Planet. It's cool that we have a large segment of the population that is Team Captain Pollution.

[AbsolutSurgen]

1 hour ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

I mean...they aren't wrong (first tweet).

Well, the tweet was the second sentence of the introduction to the lesson plan.  To be clear, this was a lesson plan distributed by the union for my kids (theoretically with the purpose of being taught to my kids:

Quote

Climate justice is racial justice. Climate change is a consequence of a colonial and capitalist system which has exploited people and the environment. The two struggles are inseparable. While Greta Thunberg’s #FridaysforFuture have galvanized many, whose future are we being asked to protect? Many in the Global North may not be fully internalizing the impacts of the climate breakdown in this moment, however droughts, desertification and food insecurity as a result of climate change are happening now and disproportionately so to Black, Indigenous and people of colour. The privilege of 12 years to act, given as a timeline from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change in 2018, is not a luxury that marginalized people on the frontlines are afforded. Environmental racism describes how Black, Indigenous and people of colour (BIPOC) experience a disproportionate share of environmental burdens (e.g. air and water pollution, proximity to chemical plants and waste sites) as well as the discriminatory systems that have perpetuated those inequities (e.g. systemic racism in education and income inequalities lead communities to have less resources to protect themselves). While individual responsibility is part of the conversation, 71% of global industrial greenhouse gas emissions are created by only 100 fossil fuel producing entities (CDP Carbon Majors Report 2017). To dismantle the corporate power and privilege profiting of the exploitation of people and environment 6 Teacher Resource Guide Introduction we will need to resist, disrupt, reposition and rebuild in partnership and allyship.

Whether we, as adults, agree with it or not, I just don't think the concept of "Environmental Racism" is age-appropriate for a 12-year old.  And I think the outrage that some parents are starting to exhibit (and screaming about CRT), is because some education administrators are starting to believe that this is "ok" for teaching elementary students.  

[SuperSpreader]

14 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Well, the tweet was the second sentence of the introduction to the lesson plan.  To be clear, this was a lesson plan distributed by the union for my kids (theoretically with the purpose of being taught to my kids:

Whether we, as adults, agree with it or not, I just don't think the concept of "Environmental Racism" is age-appropriate for a 12-year old.  And I think the outrage that some parents are starting to exhibit (and screaming about CRT), is because some education administrators are starting to believe that this is "ok" for teaching elementary students.  

i don't see what's wrong here 

[skillzdadirecta]

3 hours ago, stepee said:

I kid you not my Dad told me the other day he didn’t know the Civil War was fought over slaves.

Because they've been told it was about "States' rights." No joke... I remember when a co-worker told me that's what the Civil War was REALLY fought over. I said yes... States' rights to own slaves. Of course he had no answer.

[CitizenVectron]

47 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Well, the tweet was the second sentence of the introduction to the lesson plan.  To be clear, this was a lesson plan distributed by the union for my kids (theoretically with the purpose of being taught to my kids:

Whether we, as adults, agree with it or not, I just don't think the concept of "Environmental Racism" is age-appropriate for a 12-year old.  And I think the outrage that some parents are starting to exhibit (and screaming about CRT), is because some education administrators are starting to believe that this is "ok" for teaching elementary students.  

 

Kids aren't as fragile as we think they are, and it's important that they internalize the struggle of existence/reality before they grow too old to be desensitized to it. That's not to say we should be trying to make them callous or traumatized...but they need to know the truth, and I don't think there is harm in teaching it.

[skillzdadirecta]

10 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

Kids aren't as fragile as we think they are, and it's important that they internalize the struggle of existence/reality before they grow too old to be desensitized to it. That's not to say we should be trying to make them callous or traumatized...but they need to know the truth, and I don't think there is harm in teaching it.

Spoiler alert... there isn't.

[Ghost_MH]

16 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

Kids aren't as fragile as we think they are, and it's important that they internalize the struggle of existence/reality before they grow too old to be desensitized to it. That's not to say we should be trying to make them callous or traumatized...but they need to know the truth, and I don't think there is harm in teaching it.

 

Kids aren't and in this case we're talking about tweens, we're talking about what? Middle schoolers around 7th grade?

 

I used I teach a Bible study class for kids that age. Two things I learned real quick. These kids aren't fragile and the Internet has certainly helped them be more aware of the world around them than when I was that age. Secondly, I hate this age range and very quickly bailed to teach a class for older kids in highschool and college. This age is just the wrong combination of horny and thinking they're older than they are because they're the oldest kids in their pre-highschool schools. I got confirmation too. My wife taught an ESL class for 7 and 8 grade. She loved her kids, but she also thought they were all little assholes with more ego that height.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

The issue that conservatives have with teaching these concepts to young children at young ages (1-4th grade time) is not that the kids will be traumatized or whatever (they won’t be and it’s stupid to suggest otherwise) but because it’s a foundational attack on their worldview from which they are unlikely to recover 

[TyphoidHater]

So if I've got this right, kids are both highly resilient yet fragile little creatures AND pussies compared to kids of yesteryear yet unable to handle being taught CRT (aka legitimate history).

 

Correct?

[AbsolutSurgen]

12 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

Kids aren't as fragile as we think they are, and it's important that they internalize the struggle of existence/reality before they grow too old to be desensitized to it. That's not to say we should be trying to make them callous or traumatized...but they need to know the truth, and I don't think there is harm in teaching it.

1)  It's a nuanced topic, which has multiple ways of looking at it.

2) Most elementary teachers I've met aren't the kind of folks that I would want to trust these kind of discussions on with my kds.

3) Critical thinking skills aren't fully developed at age 12 and 13, and often the teacher's point dominates any discussion in primary school

4) The lesson takes a rather radical/one-sided view on "environmental racism".

The foreword and introduction were so cringeworthy in the way they were written, that the intentions lose credibility to me.  Are Toronto-area black people really concerned about bears in our local parks?  Do they view "nature as a white space where black faces are out of place"?

3 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

Kids aren't and in this case we're talking about tweens, we're talking about what? Middle schoolers around 7th grade?

 

I used I teach a Bible study class for kids that age. Two things I learned real quick. These kids aren't fragile and the Internet has certainly helped them be more aware of the world around them than when I was that age. Secondly, I hate this age range and very quickly bailed to teach a class for older kids in highschool and college. This age is just the wrong combination of horny and thinking they're older than they are because they're the oldest kids in their pre-highschool schools. I got confirmation too. My wife taught an ESL class for 7 and 8 grade. She loved her kids, but she also thought they were all little assholes with more ego that height.

I wasn't suggesting they were fragile.  I was suggesting these kind of nuanced conversations were more appropriate for older kids.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

Nuanced conversations are better when they’re older but in the meantime here’s my “neutral” history to hold its place until then

[TyphoidHater]

1 minute ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Nuanced conversations are better when they’re older but in the meantime here’s my “neutral” history to hold its place until then

 

The reactionary view of CRT is that it is being applied the same way in every grade and not in unique and age appropriate ways.

[AbsolutSurgen]

3 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Nuanced conversations are better when they’re older but in the meantime here’s my “neutral” history to hold its place until then

Don't strawman me.

[CitizenVectron]

11 minutes ago, TyphoidHater said:

 

The reactionary view of CRT is that it is being applied the same way in every grade and not in unique and age appropriate ways.

 

There was the same reaction when the Ontario Liberal government announced a few years back that they were going to start introducing "woke" sexual education at Kindergarten. Massive conservative outrage. Except...at young ages it was just basic stuff, like the fact that sometimes men are married to men, etc. Nothing sexual at all, just that there are physical differences between some people's bodies, and that some people are attracted to different types of people than you may be. As the kids got older they would receive more and more information until they were learning about actual sex at an appropriate age. But from the outrage on the right you'd think that they were watching gay porn in grade 1.

[Chadatog]

Honestly in middle school I was too old for Santa Clause and The Easter Bunny, so why were people still telling me fairy tails about Columbus Day and Thanksgiving.  I'm still pissed that I never heard a peep about the various massacres after reconstruction that happened where black people were gaining wealth.  I had to learn about that stuff for the first time from a HBO show in my 40's 

[AbsolutSurgen]

3 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

There was the same reaction when the Ontario Liberal government announced a few years back that they were going to start introducing "woke" sexual education at Kindergarten. Massive conservative outrage. Except...at young ages it was just basic stuff, like the fact that sometimes men are married to men, etc. Nothing sexual at all, just that there are physical differences between some people's bodies, and that some people are attracted to different types of people than you may be. As the kids got older they would receive more and more information until they were learning about actual sex at an appropriate age. But from the outrage on the right you'd think that they were watching gay porn in grade 1.

It was never called "woke".  Not once, by anybody.

Keep in mind that the current curriculum in Ontario introduced by the Conservatives in 2019 introduces sexual orientation as a mandatory discussion item Grade 5 (Liberal curriculum was Grade 6), they did move Gender identity to Grade 8 (Liberals had it in Grade 6).  The Liberal document did have gender identity and sexual orientation as optional topics as early as Grade 3 though.

[Guest]

I always enjoyed reading non-fiction books, and there are a great many ideas and concepts that I was introduced to between 12-16 that I certainly couldn’t fully grasp. But I don’t think it was at all bad for me.

 

My larger issue with public schools is that I generally find the quality of teaching below the standards I would like to see, which causes enough problem teaching things like math or reading, that I have exactly zero confidence in the average teacher to handle far more complex topics.

[stepee]

I mean if they can’t teach racism due to nuance they most certainly can’t teach anything about war and honestly they should just skip history in general then until they are ready on their 16th birthday. 

[Fizzzzle]

It's like every 50 years or so we collectively have a "seriously, do we have to bring up racism again? Fiiiiiiiiine" moment, and then the goalposts get moved and we start over.

[Ghost_MH]

 

As I said before, I've been seated of this since before I was ten because this is what Captain Planet was all about. Rich, capitalists burning down forests to make money and dumping their toxic waste on poor communities. It's Captain Planet age appropriate for older children?

 

 

Ehhhh...

[ort]

I have this rule in my head... anytime anyone uses the term "woke" in a non-ironic way, I immediately put them in the bin of worthless piece of shit whose opinions and ideas mean literally nothing to me. I can ignore this person forever, because they have literally nothing of value to bring to anything, EVER.

[AbsolutSurgen]

 

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, ort said:

I have this rule in my head... anytime anyone uses the term "woke" in a non-ironic way, I immediately put them in the bin of worthless piece of shit whose opinions and ideas mean literally nothing to me. I can ignore this person forever, because they have literally nothing of value to bring to anything, EVER.

So you’re saying white people ruined Black stuff AGAIN

[Kal-El814]

8 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

So you’re saying white people ruined Black stuff AGAIN

 

One of the immutable laws of the universe.

[stepee]

14 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

 

 

 

 

 

[Bloodporne]

On 4/30/2022 at 4:56 PM, skillzdadirecta said:

Because they've been told it was about "States' rights." No joke... I remember when a co-worker told me that's what the Civil War was REALLY fought over. I said yes... States' rights to own slaves. Of course he had no answer.

I find this truly baffling because even the official government answer for my current American History & Civics test for my citizenship interview is the following:

 

74. Name one problem that led to the Civil War.

▪ slavery

 

Copied & pasted from an official document. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

2 minutes ago, stepee said:

 

 

 

There are all sorts of people who have used/are using the term "woke" in an unironic way. 

If Obama is now considered right-wing,  .

[stepee]

I don’t really find it baffling per se, the idea right now is just to rewrite history to be more kind to white people.

[stepee]

1 minute ago, stepee said:

I don’t really find it baffling per se, the idea right now is just to rewrite history to be more kind to white people.

 

I mean, if the idea was to counter ort saying people who use it non ironically are pieces of shit, I think an example of a war using the term checks out just fine.

[chakoo]

14 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

I find this truly baffling because even the official government answer for my current American History & Civics test for my citizenship interview is the following:

 

74. Name one problem that led to the Civil War.

▪ slavery

 

Copied & pasted from an official document. 

 

Here let me help update you on the 2022 version...
 

74. Name one problem that led to the Civil War.

▪ a disagreement on both sides
▪ obama

* Tony is an arrogant prick

[AbsolutSurgen]

8 minutes ago, stepee said:

 

I mean, if the idea was to counter ort saying people who use it non ironically are pieces of shit, I think an example of a war using the term checks out just fine.

The idea was to suggest that the amount of people he is saying are pieces of shit is rather large and diverse.  He is free to think of them any way he chooses.

[Zaku3]

23 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

There are all sorts of people who have used/are using the term "woke" in an unironic way. 

If Obama is now considered right-wing,  .

 

I mean he is a neo-lib. At best that ideology can be considered center right.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

 

 

Talk about a straw man 

[Guest]

I actually think Ort got it backward anyway, it’s the people using it ironically that are the people he takes issue with. Black folks that have been using it regularly since at least the 1940s don’t use it with any irony.

 

I guess more accurately than the ironic/non-ironic framing might be that many people use it sarcastically now as an insult, and those are surely who Ort takes issue with.