Freight train derailment in Ohio causes toxic chemical spill.

[CastletonSnob]

Can't believe there hasn't been a thread on this yet, at least not that I've seen.

 

A 50-car freight train derailed in Ohio, causing a big fire and evacuations

WWW.NPR.ORG

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The resulting large fire prompted an evacuation order in a village near the Pennsylvania state line. There was no immediate information about what caused the derailment. No injuries were reported.

 

[Demut]

Not a good look either that they arrested/detained that reporter who was there to cover this clusterfuck. Hard to believe that these imbeciles still think that they can hide a colossal fuck-up like that in this day and age.

[Mr.Vic20]

The governor of Ohio was on NPR last week talking about this and sounded like he was the product of the Ohio public school system. Sweet Jesus, he does not know many words! 

[DarkStar189]

12 minutes ago, Mr.Vic20 said:

The governor of Ohio was on NPR last week talking about this and sounded like he was the product of the Ohio public school system. Sweet Jesus, he does not know many words! 

I watched an interview with him last night where I thought the interviewer did a decent job asking him outright questions like “What do you say to the people who are afraid of lasting effects from chemical exposure?” and “what do you say to the people that don’t trust what the railroad is saying about the cleanup?”.  All of the answers were just “well we have experts on the ground that said it’s safe”.  This was after a resident said there were a bunch of dead fish floating in small creek and they are concerned about the runoff poisoning their wells.

[Demut]

44 minutes ago, DarkStar189 said:

This was after a resident said

Not just said, there is video evidence, apparently.

[CitizenVectron]

There were more toxic chemicals on train that derailed in Ohio than originally reported, data shows - ABC News

ABCNEWS.GO.COM

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There were more toxic chemicals aboard the train that derailed in Ohio than originally reported, new data shows.

 

 

This is going to end up being very bad for the water in the area and downstream, but I bet the company gets away with minimal punishment.

[Ominous]

I mean three mile island taught me to just trust the company and that everything will be fine...

[Massdriver]

Railroad companies in the United States cannot be trusted.

[finaljedi]

Dewine is a career politician that's really cultivated that "aw shucks" sort of image.  He was booted from the Senate by Sherrod Brown and returned to just doing state politics.

 

If you're looking for someone to do anything about a large corporation it's not going to be Dewine.  After Householder got arrested for accepting bribes from lobbyists for First Energy, Dewine still defended the deal, just not the bribery.  He was taking COVID seriously and was kind of a standout with Republican governors, until business leaned on him.  Unfortunately for him he can't use folksy bullshit on this disaster, the people of East Palestine and surrounding area don't want Fran's cookie recipes.

 

Also, considering the Republicans haven't capitalized on this yet, I'm betting there's some deregulation that'll end up at fault here.

[TyphoidHater]

31 minutes ago, Massdriver said:

Railroad companies in the United States cannot be trusted.

 

There is a railway overpass about 5 minutes from my house that is constantly getting hit by tractor trailers.

 

Everytime, you'll then immediately see about a week of posts to Facebook, that neighborhood app, and newspaper editorials that the town should just RAISE the overpass.

 

Then a bunch of sane people will try to explain that LEGALLY the town can't do anything because the railroad owns the overpass.

 

Rinse and repeat every time it happens 🙄

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

thank you precision scheduled railroading

[ort]

Who exactly made the call to light the spill on fire and burn off the chemicals?

 

I haven't been paying close attention to this story and they always just say "authorities"... but yeah, who? The local government? The company that was shipping the chemicals? The Federal government? All of the above?

[ThreePi]

1 hour ago, finaljedi said:

Dewine is a career politician that's really cultivated that "aw shucks" sort of image.  He was booted from the Senate by Sherrod Brown and returned to just doing state politics.

 

If you're looking for someone to do anything about a large corporation it's not going to be Dewine.  After Householder got arrested for accepting bribes from lobbyists for First Energy, Dewine still defended the deal, just not the bribery.  He was taking COVID seriously and was kind of a standout with Republican governors, until business leaned on him.  Unfortunately for him he can't use folksy bullshit on this disaster, the people of East Palestine and surrounding area don't want Fran's cookie recipes.

 

Also, considering the Republicans haven't capitalized on this yet, I'm betting there's some deregulation that'll end up at fault here.

 

From Wikipedia:

 

Quote

In response to multiple contemporary train derailments, including the 2012 derailment of a train carrying toxic chemicals in Paulsboro, New Jersey,[24] new regulations were issued by the administration of then-President Barack Obama in 2015. These regulations required train companies to replace the brakes of trains carrying oil and certain flammable liquids, including chemicals, with electronically controlled pneumatic (or ECP) brakes,[25] which were intended to mitigate the damage of a potential future derailment and subsequent toxic spill.

 

However, in 2018, the regulations on ECP brakes were repealed by the administration of then-President Donald Trump,[26] amid lobbying efforts by the railway industry and Republican Senators. Congress in 2015 required the U.S. Department of Transportation to investigate the requirement. Studies by the National Academy of Sciences and other government groups determined the braking system did not dramatically outperform existing systems and was not worth the cost, the DOT announced on Monday.[when?]

 

In 2022, an emailed statement from a BNSF Railway employee, whose name was redacted, was submitted to the Congressional Record by US Representative Peter DeFazio. The statement references "the potential of ECP brakes to prevent or mitigate some highway-rail grade crossing accidents and similar obstruction events", claiming that "[t]he price for not moving forward on management of in-train forces will be more derailments [and] more releases of hazardous materials".[27] This led others[who?] to the conclusion that Norfolk Southern chose measures meant to lower costs instead of preventing hazard.

 

[CitizenVectron]

1 hour ago, TyphoidHater said:

 

There is a railway overpass about 5 minutes from my house that is constantly getting hit by tractor trailers.

 

Everytime, you'll then immediately see about a week of posts to Facebook, that neighborhood app, and newspaper editorials that the town should just RAISE the overpass.

 

Then a bunch of sane people will try to explain that LEGALLY the town can't do anything because the railroad owns the overpass.

 

Rinse and repeat every time it happens 🙄

 

Same thing in Canada. As part of the push to expand the country westward (and I assume this was also the case in the US), railroads were given free land and rights all over the place. So to this day the railroads refuse to do anything to improve that land. Case in point is my city where CN owns a rail line right through the middle of the city, blocking major downtown development as well as an at-grade freeway crossing. CN refuses to make any improvements, and says that if the city wants anything done then it will have to cover 100% of the costs, including the cost to build a new line around the city.

[Mr.Vic20]

3 hours ago, Massdriver said:

Railroad companies in the United States cannot be trusted.

Better.

[Massdriver]

3 hours ago, TyphoidHater said:

 

There is a railway overpass about 5 minutes from my house that is constantly getting hit by tractor trailers.

 

Everytime, you'll then immediately see about a week of posts to Facebook, that neighborhood app, and newspaper editorials that the town should just RAISE the overpass.

 

Then a bunch of sane people will try to explain that LEGALLY the town can't do anything because the railroad owns the overpass.

 

Rinse and repeat every time it happens 🙄

Railroads do not care about safety or people. They are about liability and property rights.

[Demut]

3 hours ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

thank you precision scheduled railroading

Euphemisms, man, what a riot ...

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

Just now, Demut said:

Euphemisms, man, what a riot ...

Not a euphemism in theory it works but the railroads aren’t making sufficient investment in infrastructure to make it work right

for an overview see here:

 

Opinion | Mismanagement and ‘Monster Trains’ Have Wrecked American Rail - The New York Times

WWW.NYTIMES.COM

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Decades of cost cutting takes a toll.

for a less concise overview from the author:

 

[TyphoidHater]

6 hours ago, ThreePi said:

 

From Wikipedia:

 

 

 

USDOT repeals ECP brake rule - Railway Age

WWW.RAILWAYAGE.COM

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The U.S. Department of Transportation on Dec. 4 repealed a 2015 Federal Railroad Administration rulemaking requiring freight railroads to...

 

 

"Comments Railway Age contributor and railroad economist Jim Blaze: “Regardless of what the rail freight folks do, better braking will show up on trucks. And if the rail economics changed one or two assumptions, the break-even numbers would have turned out better. Sadly, just one future incident in a very highly populated area would make this decision look very bad. But someone likely calculated such odds as very remote. Now they can keep their fingers crossed and hope the actuary assumptions were not wrong."

 

Cannot imagine why an Obama era safety provision would have gotten repealed in 2017.

 

Anyone?

[DarkStar189]

7 hours ago, ort said:

Who exactly made the call to light the spill on fire and burn off the chemicals?

 

I haven't been paying close attention to this story and they always just say "authorities"... but yeah, who? The local government? The company that was shipping the chemicals? The Federal government? All of the above?

No idea, probably a joint effort? I think bad stuff was already burning from the initial crash. I saw a comment somewhere that said the remaining tanks were damaged and couldn’t safely be moved without more contamination.  The “safest” clean up method was to burn up the rest of it. 

[Demut]

I wonder how true that is. I've read the allegation that the decision to burn shit was made because it was the cheapest and fastest option to get that route usable again. Pretty fucked if factual (and hardly outside the realm of possibility when talking about corporations).

[DarkStar189]

This is something…

 

[silentbob]

It literally looks like a cancerous mole 

[finaljedi]

That fucking plume.... They're going to bankrupt Norfolk Southern right... right?

[CayceG]

49 minutes ago, DarkStar189 said:

This is something…

 

 

 

This is fake as fuck. 

 

 

[DarkStar189]

14 minutes ago, CayceG said:

 

 

This is fake as fuck. 

 

 

Possibly, someone posted a snopes article that rated it as “unproven” for now. The article has a tweet that shows this pic along with a 2nd one. I saw a ton of people sharing the pic I figured if it was fake it would have been called out by now. Maybe I got duped.

Does Photo Show Airplane View of Smoke Clouds from Ohio Train Derailment? | Snopes.com

WWW.SNOPES.COM

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We looked into the origins of a popular Reddit post that claimed to show a view of the disaster from above the clouds.

 

[SoberChef]

I happened across this on Friday the 10th for the first time, yet from what I can gather, this event happened a week prior on the 3rd. I happened across it because of Twitter, it wasn't until about an hour or so ago I saw personally, the first mass news report (more like a 2 second throwaway summary and kept moving on) - meanwhile those both in the know & those dealing with this in the immediate areas are telling a far different story than anything being reported on.

[SoberChef]

Also, this map illustrates how the runoff may very well affect the Mississippi River. (Red dot where the train derailment took place.)

 

[SoberChef]

On 2/14/2023 at 10:36 AM, TyphoidHater said:

 

There is a railway overpass about 5 minutes from my house that is constantly getting hit by tractor trailers.

 

Everytime, you'll then immediately see about a week of posts to Facebook, that neighborhood app, and newspaper editorials that the town should just RAISE the overpass.

 

Then a bunch of sane people will try to explain that LEGALLY the town can't do anything because the railroad owns the overpass.

 

Rinse and repeat every time it happens 🙄

 

I genuinely did not know that about the overpasses. Fascinating & also outrageously awful that the rail companies can just DO this without repercussions.

[Keyser_Soze]

22 minutes ago, SoberChef said:

Also, this map illustrates how the runoff may very well affect the Mississippi River. (Red dot where the train derailment took place.)

 

 

@Remarkableriots was just ahead of his time

 

 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

If you’re upstream it won’t affect you. It’s only if you’re downstream that it could be an issue. So major population centers like Cincinnati and Louisville would be the first big cities hit. So even though Columbus, for example, is within the Ohio river watershed it lies far upstream via the scioto river

[PaladinSolo]

13 hours ago, DarkStar189 said:

This is something…

 

This is actually just what it always looks like over Ohio.  But seriously the wind wouldn't allow the smoke to form a circle like that.

[MarSolo]

Deregulation: Why is it Bad?

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Ohio train derailment: Rail firm pulls out of meeting with residents

WWW.BBC.COM

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East Palestine residents are left without answers after train company cites security concerns.

 

Quote

 

A public meeting that was meant to ease fears about a toxic chemical spill in an Ohio town only heightened anger when the rail firm at the heart of the disaster failed to show up.

 

Representatives of the Norfolk Southern railway company, whose train carrying the chemicals derailed 13 days ago causing a huge fire, cited security concerns when they pulled out.

 

After the derailment, emergency crews performed a controlled release of vinyl chloride from five railcars that were at risk of exploding.

 

Thick plumes of black smoke towered over the town, East Palestine, but crews monitoring the air quality sought to reassure locals that it was going as planned.

 

Despite those assurances from officials, many residents say they continued to be frightened of the potential harms, which they say had impacted humans and wildlife alike.

 

Thousands of dead fish have appeared in the creeks in the town, while people told local media that their chickens had died suddenly, and that their pets had fallen ill.

 

Many have reported difficulties getting their water tested, fuelling mistrust at what they see as an ineffective and inadequate response to the crisis.

 

 

Quote

 

Under the banners and murals of a local high school gymnasium, hundreds of people bombarded officials with repeated - and occasionally profanity-laden - questions about air and water quality.

 

"I'm just as frustrated. I live in the community, just like you," said East Palestine's Mayor Trent Conaway, exhaustion clearly visible on his face. "I'm trying to get answers."

 

Just hours before the meeting, Norfolk Southern announced that it would not attend.

 

In a statement, the company said it had become "increasingly concerned about the growing physical threat" to its employees because of the likelihood of "outside parties" participating.

 

Lifelong resident Chris Wallace - who remains unable to return to his house near a local creek - told the BBC that many townspeople had long been concerned about the speeds at which trains went through East Palestine, as well as the potential dangers of exhausted staff.

 

"They should be here answering questions," he said. "They've got a lot to hide. They don't want us to know anything. They bombed us."

 

 

[CayceG]

9 hours ago, SoberChef said:

Also, this map illustrates how the runoff may very well affect the Mississippi River. (Red dot where the train derailment took place.)

 

 

This is literally just a map of the watersheds that feed the Mississippi River. 

 

Here's a section of a post I made on Reddit in response to this exact map being posted:

 

Watersheds are the land area that drains to a specific river or stream. The image also shows the red dot where the East Palestine chemical spill happened.

In short, the East Palestine spill will not affect Tennessee one bit. It will also not affect any of the watersheds that aren't the Ohio River Basin. It won't affect the Ohio River Basin downstream of the spill (aside from the Ohio River and Missippi River themselves).

 

The reason for this is that something entering the water (say, chemical residue) will flow with the water. As we all know, water flows down hill. It can't flow back up hill (to the other river basins/watersheds). In Nashville, we get our water from the Cumberland River. The Cumberland River feeds the Ohio River. Not the other way around.

 

Likewise, the chemicals released are nasty and potentially harmful. But as they burned they broke down into different chemicals and deposited on the ground nearby the spill. Some probably got into rivers and streams. But one mitigating factor there is that the pollutants are diluted as the volume of the river is so much greater than the volume of pollutants spilled.

 

Water authorities and environmental monitors along the Ohio River are monitoring the pollutant plume's progress down the river and are making preparations to deal with it when drinking water is concerned.