A county school board in Tennessee voted to ban a book on the Holocaust

[CayceG]

I know McMinn County. 

 

 

None of them are Catholic. Nor are they smart enough to have done this to head off some secret fascist future policies. 

This is purely braindead moral policing about the weakest obscenities (nudity and language) possible. 

[Fizzzzle]

The fact that Germany has embraced the fact that like "yeah we did a bad" but Americans still glorify their horrible past troubles me greatly. And I have 3 3rd great grandfathers who fought for the confederacy. Guess what, they were assholes. Why get offended by it?

 

 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

2 hours ago, MarSolo said:

Meanwhile, at Catholic schools they teach first graders the story of Jesus getting whipped, crowned with thorns, and literally nailed to a cross, naked I might add, before he slowly dies while on the cross.

Catholics want you to feel bad

[SuperSpreader]

36 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

The fact that Germany has embraced the fact that like "yeah we did a bad" but Americans still glorify their horrible past troubles me greatly. And I have 3 3rd great grandfathers who fought for the confederacy. Guess what, they were assholes. Why get offended by it?

 

 

 

Kublai Kahn TX - No Kin 

 

Listen with Lyrics 

[CastlevaniaNut18]

I’m glad the book is getting more publicity but it’s been an icon for 35 years. Makes me

sad so many people still hadn’t experienced it.

[Ghost_MH]

This is why I can't be rich. If I were, I'd probably end up sending a copy to every household in the school district.

[Jason]

Is this cancel culture? 

[Fizzzzle]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

Is this cancel culture? 

Not remotely, this is just making sure people can't see a piece of literature because it offends them. Completely different. Republicans would never "cancel" anybody.

 

 

[Anathema-]

5 hours ago, Jason said:

Is this cancel culture? 

 

Government mandated safe space for Nazis. The only kind of safe space allowed. 

[Guest]

https://core-docs.s3.amazonaws.com/documents/asset/uploaded_file/1818370/Called_Meeting_Minutes_1-10-22.pdf
 

The actual minutes of the meeting are really interesting to read in regards to how these sort of things go down. I feel bad for the supervisors who were trying keep the book in the 8th grade curriculum. They did a commendable job explaining how the specific book fits into the overall module. I also didn’t know that it was a common practice in many school districts in the US to censor particular content from books they do include in the curriculum, which I looked into after reading the minutes.

 

It also made me glad we never had to deal with school board shenanigans with our kids.

[Jwheel86]

1 hour ago, sblfilms said:

It also made me glad we never had to deal with school board shenanigans with our kids.

 

My parents sued the school board for blatantly violating federal/state special education laws regarding me being put in an illegal prek classroom for kids with downs and autism. After it was settled one of the board members offered my dad vacant board seat. My dad stayed on the school board for a decade to keep the crazies off it. 

[brucoe]

I have all sorts of mixed thoughts on textbooks and education based on my own growing up experiences that I don't think I'll ever get beyond. When I was going through elementary school and then middle school, there was a HUGE fight in our school district concerning our history textbook because the "new" textbook had seven chapters that were added to the curriculum. There were school board arguments that went on for years over this issue until one side managed to win, and the "new" textbook was put into the mandatory curriculum.

 

That's all great and good, except when it came to being in that class that was teaching the subject of history. Our history teacher actually assigned all chapters BUT the seven chapters that were added to the curriculum. For years, that became how they taught it.

 

And for spoiler warning (which I only discovered because once my mom found out what had happened, she made me read the unassigned chapters), the stricken chapters were all about the Native American experience. Basically, the argument in our school district (in Southern California, so it wasn't like this was in some Missouri district no one had ever heard about) was that they didn't want this "outside" information being taught to our young students. If you didn't seek out the information yourself, you were pretty much taught that John Wayne and a bunch of cowboys had civilized the heathens to make America what it is today.

 

Yeah, it's anecdotal, but add up those anecdotal incidents, and you get a lot of what makes up our crappy education in this country.

[Guest]

What is interesting in this case, and is clear when you read the full minutes, is this is totally a purity culture suppression of “naughty” stuff. It isn’t political in nature, it’s about a bunch of old coots being upset that bad words Arlie being shown. They weren’t trying to get rid of content about the holocaust, just didn’t like that they say “Goddamn”.

 

Which reminds me of a time I was working the counter when Deadpool came out. A mom was there with her son who was probably 9-10. She asked for two tickets to Deadpool, and I told her that it is a very R rated movie, with basically everything that can make a movie R rated.

 

“She says like boobs and language?”

 

Yeah, and extreme violence and such.

 

She looks at her kid and says “You’ve seen boobs, right?”

 

Then she turns to me and asks “Do they say G-D? That I don’t do.”

 

I just stared into the distance questioning my life decisions.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

2 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

It isn’t political in nature,

Impossible 

[Ghost_MH]

3 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

What is interesting in this case, and is clear when you read the full minutes, is this is totally a purity culture suppression of “naughty” stuff. It isn’t political in nature, it’s about a bunch of old coots being upset that bad words Arlie being shown. They weren’t trying to get rid of content about the holocaust, just didn’t like that they say “Goddamn”.

 

Which reminds me of a time I was working the counter when Deadpool came out. A mom was there with her son who was probably 9-10. She asked for two tickets to Deadpool, and I told her that it is a very R rated movie, with basically everything that can make a movie R rated.

 

“She says like boobs and language?”

 

Yeah, and extreme violence and such.

 

She looks at her kid and says “You’ve seen boobs, right?”

 

Then she turns to me and asks “Do they say G-D? That I don’t do.”

 

I just stared into the distance questioning my life decisions.

 

I've had this same damn conversation with so many Christians in my life. It all comes from an incredibly stupid interpretation of the command that comes up multiple times in the Bible stating one should not "curse God". It makes no God damn sense because grammar doesn't work that way. "God damn" is a command for God to curse the object of your ire, not to curse God. Stub your toe on a table and exclaiming "god dammit" isn't calling a curse onto God, but on the stupid God damned table that came out of nowhere.

[Kal-El814]

13 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

What is interesting in this case, and is clear when you read the full minutes, is this is totally a purity culture suppression of “naughty” stuff. It isn’t political in nature, it’s about a bunch of old coots being upset that bad words Arlie being shown. They weren’t trying to get rid of content about the holocaust, just didn’t like that they say “Goddamn”.

 

This is the veneer racism, homophobia, and all "otherisms" put on top of the particle board. It's the same weak sauce stuff that says the Bible is okay but the Quran is not, Maus is bad but dreck like The Boy in the Striped Pajamas is fine, etc. Exceptions abound for the straight, white, Christian perspective on these subjects. It is possible of course to be legitimately concerned about the exposure of kids to mature content, but almost nobody who cries "won't someone think of the children" when it comes to banning books deserves the benefit of the doubt.

 

Quote

Tony Allman- I am not denying it was horrible, brutal, and cruel. It’s like when you’re watching tv and a cuss word or nude scene comes on it would be the same movie without it. Well, this would be the same book without it. I may be wrong, but this guy that created the artwork used to do the graphics for Playboy. You can look at his history, and we’re letting him do graphics in books for students in elementary school. If I had a child in the eighth grade, this ain’t happening. If I had to move him out and homeschool him or put him somewhere else, this is not happening.

 

Quote

Mike Cochran- I will start. I went to school here thirteen years. I learned math, English, Reading and History. I never had a book with a naked picture in it, never had one with foul language. In third grade I had one of my classmates come up to me and say hey what’s this word? I sounded it out and it was “damn,” and I was real proud of myself because I sounded it out. She ran straight to the teacher and told her I was cussing. Besides that one book which I think she brought from home, now I’ve seen a cuss word in a textbook at school. So, this idea that we have to have this kind of material in the class in order to teach history, I don’t buy it.

 

I'm sorry, no. Eat shit.

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

I've had this same damn conversation with so many Christians in my life. It all comes from an incredibly stupid interpretation of the command that comes up multiple times in the Bible stating one should not "curse God". It makes no God damn sense because grammar doesn't work that way. "God damn" is a command for God to curse the object of your ire, not to curse God. Stub your toe on a table and exclaiming "god dammit" isn't calling a curse onto God, but on the stupid God damned table that came out of nowhere.

If they said that, they are very confused because the claim one shouldn’t say Goddamn actually comes from the commandment not to take the Lord’s name in vain. Amusingly though, they often will find themselves breaking the third commandment in a different way with their flippant invocation of God.

 

But that may be a bit too complicated for most, so they’ll just stick to banning the naughty “Goddamn”.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Not unrelatedly...

 

A Neo-Nazi rally has taken place in the suburban streets of Orlando

M.DAILYKOS.COM

---

On a Saturday, a group of Nazis, affiliated with the far-right, white supremacist group National Socialist Movement (NSM), have gathered on a busy intersection within the Alafaya/Waterford...

 

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

This is the veneer racism, homophobia, and all "otherisms" put on top of the particle board. It's the same weak sauce stuff that says the Bible is okay but the Quran is not, Maus is bad but dreck like The Boy in the Striped Pajamas is fine, etc. Exceptions abound for the straight, white, Christian perspective on these subjects. It is possible of course to be legitimately concerned about the exposure of kids to mature content, but almost nobody who cries "won't someone think of the children" when it comes to banning books deserves the benefit of the doubt.

I think it is helpful to have a baseline understanding that humans are filled to the brim with logical inconsistencies, and we require near constant effort to be consistent, particularly so when we are claiming something as a principle.

 

I think @CayceGand I both have a pretty similar connection to the purity culture movement and all the now gray hairs and their children who pushed it. These folks believe what they are saying. They didn’t grow up with the same sort of content being shown in schools today, and why would they? Times have absolutely changed. Social norms have changed…and I think that scares them. Change is scary to most.

 

That isn’t an excuse of bad decisions, but it is always important to me to try and understand why people do what they do so when I do have to engage with them I can at least speak to what their actual thoughts and feelings are. Maybe that is a waste of time in most cases, but it really is the only way to ever have a productive conversation.

[Ghost_MH]

26 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

If they said that, they are very confused because the claim one shouldn’t say Goddamn actually comes from the commandment not to take the Lord’s name in vain. Amusingly though, they often will find themselves breaking the third commandment in a different way with their flippant invocation of God.

 

But that may be a bit too complicated for most, so they’ll just stick to banning the naughty “Goddamn”.

 

Yes, but have them explain why God damn is the sin but not saying something like "I swear to God I left my keys right here".

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

Yes, but have them explain why God damn is the sin but not saying something like "I swear to God I left my keys right here".

You didn’t grow up in the right faith community if you didn’t also hear that you can’t swear to God  

[ort]

Well, he's probably used to this sort of treatment, because (here's a fun fact) in addition to Maus... Art Spielgelman also created and drew the original run of Garbage Pail kids.

[Ghost_MH]

39 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

You didn’t grow up in the right faith community if you didn’t also hear that you can’t swear to God  

 

Caribbean-flavored evangelical pentecostal. Swear to God is ok, but women be going to hell for went pants. Growing up was fun.

[Kamusha]

1 hour ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

Not unrelatedly...

 

A Neo-Nazi rally has taken place in the suburban streets of Orlando

M.DAILYKOS.COM

---

On a Saturday, a group of Nazis, affiliated with the far-right, white supremacist group National Socialist Movement (NSM), have gathered on a busy intersection within the Alafaya/Waterford...

 

I used to work in the shopping area that they are standing out in front of! Wild stuff! 
 

This is only a few miles down the road from UCF.

[CastlevaniaNut18]

5 hours ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

This is the veneer racism, homophobia, and all "otherisms" put on top of the particle board. It's the same weak sauce stuff that says the Bible is okay but the Quran is not, Maus is bad but dreck like The Boy in the Striped Pajamas is fine, etc. Exceptions abound for the straight, white, Christian perspective on these subjects. It is possible of course to be legitimately concerned about the exposure of kids to mature content, but almost nobody who cries "won't someone think of the children" when it comes to banning books deserves the benefit of the doubt.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, no. Eat shit.

I think I love you.

[CayceG]

5 hours ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

This is the veneer racism, homophobia, and all "otherisms" put on top of the particle board. It's the same weak sauce stuff that says the Bible is okay but the Quran is not, Maus is bad but dreck like The Boy in the Striped Pajamas is fine, etc. Exceptions abound for the straight, white, Christian perspective on these subjects. It is possible of course to be legitimately concerned about the exposure of kids to mature content, but almost nobody who cries "won't someone think of the children" when it comes to banning books deserves the benefit of the doubt.

 

[quotes]

 

I'm sorry, no. Eat shit.

 

 

I'll speak more to what sbl is saying. In short, you are correct. This does the work for the aims of the far right. But sbl is right that the conservative evangelical purity culture is the place where these people are starting from when they make these decisions. We don't have to give them the benefit of the doubt when we explain it this way--and we aren't doing that. Because they're accomplishing just what an openly far right board would have done. 

 

The people making these rules just aren't the types of strategic deep thinkers to be cunning about this. They're dumb and reactive to the most surface level bullshit like nudity and coarse language. 

 

It's why the overt far-right policymakers getting all the attention in politics isn't the only thing. There's a spotlight to put on the non-political conservative evangelical types and the morality police that seemingly don't have any political ideological root to their aims. Because the same outcomes are derived from it. 

[CastlevaniaNut18]

My crazy, evangelical aunt literally will not read a book or watch a movie with any profanity or even basic sexual stuff. She's 50 and a virgin, that's how hardcore she is.

 

I can easily believe the dopes banning Maus aren't putting anymore thought into it than that.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

The people who want to ban books for mere profanity are the same people who simply don’t read

[CastlevaniaNut18]

2 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

The people who want to ban books for mere profanity are the same people who simply don’t read

My aunt loves books. Her apartment is crammed with them.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

14 minutes ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

My aunt loves books. Her apartment is crammed with them.

I’m painting in broad strokes here no time for nuance

[CastlevaniaNut18]

6 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

I’m painting in broad strokes here no time for nuance

I'm just saying these people aren't that uncommon. I've known many of them my entire life.

[Anathema-]

Puritanicalism was just a system of patriarchal oppression. It's more than a simple and forgivable "they don't like swear words."

[Reputator]

14 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

Not unrelatedly...

 

A Neo-Nazi rally has taken place in the suburban streets of Orlando

M.DAILYKOS.COM

---

On a Saturday, a group of Nazis, affiliated with the far-right, white supremacist group National Socialist Movement (NSM), have gathered on a busy intersection within the Alafaya/Waterford...

 

 

oh good 

[thewhyteboar]

This is good and real. Kids need to read books like this.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

17 hours ago, Kal-El814 said:

Maus is bad but dreck like The Boy in the Striped Pajamas is fine, etc. 

 

12 hours ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

I think I love you.

 

15 minutes ago, thewhyteboar said:

This is good and real. Kids need to read books like this.